European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 26 April | 121 comments (121 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Europe (4.00 / 10)

The word cynical won't do to describe this. Chutzpah is perhaps more apt but even there, chutzpah is more about egotism and arrogance. The utterance above contains several other characteristics that take it beyond the level of chutzpah. I mean, you can have ample amounts of chutzpah without necessarily being idiotic or obtuse.

Any other words?

by Upstate NY on Wed Apr 25th, 2012 at 04:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice... (4.00 / 9)

Recall:

EurActiv: Delors points the finger at Europe's 'killers' (29 March 2012)

He said that the EU leaders of the eurozone were "morally responsible" for the crisis, and that they ignored his proposals, made in 1997 in his capacity of president of the Notre Europe think-tank, to coordinate economic policies.
Instead, leaders only added the word "growth" to the name of "Stability and Growth pact", he said.
"What nonsense, what folly, what irresponsibility!"
Delors however confessed of having made a mistake, namely in believing that while federalism was not possible, cooperation could be an alternative. He further explained that what happened is that the common market with a common currency led to a greater diversification of productivity in the interest of Germany and to the detriment of others.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 25th, 2012 at 05:38:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice... (none / 1)

An article "based on" that speech can be downloaded at the Notre Europe site. Snippet:

I had proposed the coordination of economic policies in 1997, when I was no longer president of the European Commission but a simple French citizen. I had proposed this as a consequence of the 1987 Delors report. It was not taken up: instead, "growth" was simply added to "stability". That is typically French, the French adore formal requirements. They returned home happy because "growth" had been mentioned. How irresponsible. Or what a fraud?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 01:47:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice... (none / 0)

That's a very nice tribune by Delors.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 03:43:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (4.00 / 2)

Upstate NY:

Any other words?

not really, you nailed it.

i get the same shiver watching cameron foaming in pariament about the crisis 'we' are experiencing, like his buddies aren't chortling in their caviar and champers, his partner in crime, nick clegg slumped beside him like a deflated balloon.

cognitive dissonance, a terrible waste of beautiful minds.

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Apr 25th, 2012 at 09:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (4.00 / 4)

a terrible waste of beautiful minds

you are obviously able to discern something which is not apparent to the rest of us. Cameron is a prime example of government "of the 1%, for the 1%, by the 1%". He cannot see beyond his own small entitlement class, cannot see the problem of his idea that while increasing money motivates the rich, then increasing poverty must surely motivate the poor.

We are not in France 1788, but probably entering the 1780s

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 02:54:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (none / 1)

We are not in France 1788, but probably entering the 1780s

Forwards or backwards?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 03:42:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (none / 0)

Sadly going forwards. While I do not relish the prospect, the increasing immiseration the 1% are inflicting on populations who have become used to a reasonable standard of living is making resentments fester. If policies are not reversed I don't see where else it ends but in 1789 and the terror.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 04:07:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (none / 0)

your snark meter needs recalibrating...

dave was getting hot under the collar, and ed was tanning his hide in parliament.

all kabuki of course...

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 04:46:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (4.00 / 5)

It is pretty clear that what were, for Delors, flaws in the drafting of the Maastricht Treaty were, for the German financial elite, features. Delors and the rest of the countries in the EMU have been gulled. Time some figured this out.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Apr 25th, 2012 at 11:31:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (4.00 / 3)

Delors (from speech quoted above :

But there is something that I personally under-estimated, I must admit, because knowing that we could not go any further with federalism, I believed in cooperation - in the context of the triptych: "competition, cooperation, solidarity". I believed in cooperation and I was wrong. During this period, the Single Market with the Single Currency had given rise to an increasingly large diversification, a specification of production, to the benefit of some countries, of which Germany, and to the detriment of others.
...
We know now the strength of Germany and I am absolutely appalled when I hear economists talking about comparable competitiveness as if it were possible to club together in the same model Germany, Portugal and Greece. Europe is founded on the concept of diversity, can it live with this diversity or will it have to accept the implicit domination of Germany and its rules?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 01:51:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (none / 0)

Europe is founded on the concept of diversity, can it live with this diversity or will it have to accept the implicit domination of Germany and its rules?

There are three choices I see:

Change the rules.
Dissolve the EMU.
Watch helplessly as the periphery is crushed in an economic vice.

Option 3 is the current revealed choice. How long this remains the case determines how complete the destruction will be.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 10:26:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (4.00 / 7)

You got the word I was looking for when I posted the item. Yet you're right, this is in a superior category to chutzpah. Chutzpah is too nice.

This is brazen power, the reality behind the "Franco-German couple" facade. For Sarkozy, the Germans were willing to put on the "France still matters" show known as Merkozy. For Hollande, they are willing to put a pretty ribbon round the austerity pact. With a superior smile, as they get on with beggar-thy-neighbour business as usual.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 02:08:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (4.00 / 2)

We've been told that the EU was supposed to make war between the European Powers impossible.

Unfortunately it seems to have replaced bombers with bankers.

(And it may also be worth reminding readers how the banking classes facilitated and funded the Nazis in the run up to WWII.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 04:05:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (none / 0)

And it may also be worth reminding readers how the banking classes facilitated and funded the Nazis in the run up to WWII.

And not just in Germany alone. The Anglo-US bank Brown Brothers Harriman and Prescott Bush were instrumental in providing investment and technology sharing, including the process for extracting gasoline from coal and producing tetra ethyl lead as well as synthetic rubber which was provided to Germany and withheld from US industry for several years.

IBM, Standard Oil, DuPont, and Ford, among others supported such efforts and then got to keep their assets in Germany after the war. Julius and Ethyl Rosenberg were executed for similar generosity towards the Soviet Union. US businessmen, especially Ford, were envious of how effectively Hitler dealt with the Unions and Hitler personally gave a medal to Henry Ford for his services to the Nazi regime.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 10:39:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Replacing Bombers with Bankers (none / 0)

Like the neutron bomb, the buildings are left standing while people perish.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 02:14:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (4.00 / 4)

In reply to the question "Any other words?", and at the risk of turning the thread into a slice of english.StackExchange, hubris would seem to fit:

extreme pride or arrogance. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence

(from wikipedia)

by LondonAnalytics (Andrew Smith) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 04:47:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (none / 0)

Overestimation? Not so sure. Will a centre-left government in France really tip the balance that much? Perhaps after a change of government in the Netherlands.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 04:53:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (none / 0)

Well then, we need a word that can incorporate cynicism, condescension, idiocy, obstinacy, chutzpah, hubris, arrogance, egotism, nefarious intentions, lies and propaganda.

This is the sort of stretching of language that can only be accomplished by applying all those elements to someone's last name with the suffix -ize.

To [NAME]-ize.

by Upstate NY on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 09:20:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe (none / 1)

It's also condescending: the assumption is that Hollande can't possibly really mean something so silly.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 05:09:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 26 April | 121 comments (121 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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