The balance of anger and fear | 45 comments (45 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: The balance of anger and fear (none / 0)

Something I've been wondering. If the referendum passes, does the Dail have to ratify the treaty? Doesn't the wording just give them permission to do so?

"The State may ratify the Treaty on Stability, Co-ordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union done at Brussels on the 2nd day of March 2012. No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of the State under that Treaty or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by bodies competent under that Treaty from having the force of law in the State."

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 17th, 2012 at 09:48:50 AM EST

Re: The balance of anger and fear (4.00 / 4)

Technically, I think you are right, but what basis would the Government have for not doing so, and what chance is there that the large FG/Lab. majority wouldn't do so?

If we want to withhold support for the Treaty pending negotiation of a better one, I think our only realistic option is to vote NO. The growing debate around Europe concerning the need for a broader range of measures provides us with a rationale for doing so without damaging our reputation as "Good Europeans".

In fact, if the Government had any balls, it would postpone the referendum pending the negotiation of a more adequate Treaty quoting changed circumstances as the reason. It is demeaning to the Irish people that we should be asked to put every half baked proposal into our constitution.

But asking for a little self-respect from our Government is probably asking for too much. No wonder no one else takes us seriously.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 17th, 2012 at 10:00:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The balance of anger and fear (4.00 / 2)

Shane Ross proposed a bill today that would, in his opinion, allow for postponement.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 17th, 2012 at 10:06:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The balance of anger and fear (4.00 / 3)

Stephen Donnelly, Wicklow TD has come out in support of postponement as well. I am meeting him tonight to will report back later.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 17th, 2012 at 10:16:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The balance of anger and fear (none / 1)

And now I'm writing approvingly of Shane Ross.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 17th, 2012 at 10:21:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The balance of anger and fear (none / 1)

Pn the technical process, to amend the Constitution a Bill is initiated in Dáil Éireann and, once passed by both houses, the referendum is held. If it is approved, the President "duly" signs it into law. It doesn't go back to the Oireachtas as they have already passed it.

The only reason the President could refuse to sign it would be if he was not satisfied that the referendum operated in accordance with the law. If only there were a political party on the No side with enough links to organised criminals to run a ballot-stuffing operation. Even if they were caught, there'd be grounds for a re-run.

by ectoraige on Sun May 20th, 2012 at 05:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The balance of anger and fear (none / 1)

Yes, but all the referendum does is authorise the Oireachtas to ratify the treaty, which is a seperate step.

I must be right, because I've just realised I heard that Gilmore(?) sad that the treaty would be ratified as soon as the referendum was passed. Moron.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun May 20th, 2012 at 05:54:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The balance of anger and fear (none / 0)

And the ratification of a Treaty normally involves depositing a signed copy of the Treaty with the UN or EU or with whoever the Treaty is an agreement with. It is after all, a contract with other signatories to abide by its terms. Changing our constitution is simply an enabling step in that context.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun May 20th, 2012 at 08:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The balance of anger and fear | 45 comments (45 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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