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That's not how to look at this. The resources available to the society of European settlers/Americans increased due to taking over control of lands formerly "controlled" by indigenous.  The resources of the American society was increased while the resources of indigenous society was reduced.  The relevant universe here is a society, not the world as a whole, because money and government occurs at the societal level, not the world level.
by santiago on Tue May 29th, 2012 at 09:46:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, i can see your point, but you said previously:

Some efforts at organizing those resources, namely investment efforts, effectively increase those resources by increasing talents or technology, or by creating new spaces (such as conquering the wild west or building an internet), and those efforts may be government-ally organized or privately organized or both.

My point is just that "new spaces" are not created by investment efforts, but existing wealth is conquered. If europeans would have rented land from indigenous people, they would have gained the same resources. But they did not recognize the political privileges of indians. Whereas within european governmental framework such privileges are untouchable.

by kjr63 on Tue May 29th, 2012 at 11:24:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Revisiting old discussions of neoclassical theories of "wealth":
The essential attribute of wealth is "appropriability," to create which "the rights of property must be recognized and enforced Whoever makes, interprets, or enforces law produces wealth".


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 29th, 2012 at 11:43:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed. That is the core ideology of neoclassism. There are no unearned incomes. Monopoly rights, political privileges, are "real wealth" like the added value created by labour. But it goes further. Because all monopoly rights, political privileges, are real wealth, they should be sold and bought with money. Otherwise we would not have ideal "market equilibrium" and socially optimal wealth. Democratic government is an obstruction, it should get rid of.

Neoclassical equilibrium is not an equilibrium of production competition (controlled by "invisble hand"), but equilibrium of political power.

by kjr63 on Tue May 29th, 2012 at 05:49:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking back at J.B. Clark we can see that he could discuss the 'appropriation' of the lands of Native Americans so directly because in his youth that appropriation was in full final swing and because US triumphalism and sense of moral entitlement blinded his contemporaries to the monstrous nature of what was happening. The Franks had settled on underutilized land in the initial phases of their move over the Rhine and into the Roman Empire. William of Normandy had conquered England and killed Anglo-Saxons, but he had not killed non-combatants on any significant scale. While after the Civil War the USA consciously sought to destroy the main means of existence of the plains dwelling tribes and reduced their numbers to a small fraction of what they had been. But the vast majority of US citizens thought that this was necessary and right. Today the vast majority of US citizens consider the ongoing appropriation of their wealth by the FIRE sector of the economy to be necessary and right. Another 'appropriation' is in process.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue May 29th, 2012 at 07:28:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
..appropriation of their wealth by the FIRE sector of the economy..  

Indeed. Private monopoly sector crowds out private market (competetive) sector in accelerating phase via the help of and by finance (money monopoly). All finance goes to that sector that gives the highest yield, and that is always the monopoly sector that captures all surplus from the markets, especially debt leveraged capital gains. That leaves no purchase power to labour. Only by keeping public wealth in the control of government can private markets be saved.

So, unlike santiago says there is no zero sum game between government and private markets.

by kjr63 on Wed May 30th, 2012 at 06:49:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't disagree in general.  But I think there are ways that investment, private or public, can create new spaces for a society.  The internet is one example of a space where economic relationships are now able to occur and grow due to investment in telecommunications and computing infrastructure and technological advances.  Likewise, the expansion of human economic activity into extraterrestrial space, whether in near earth orbit or elsewhere in the solar system, is an actual increase in space resources available to some societies who make such investments.
by santiago on Tue May 29th, 2012 at 12:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, i agree to some degree with internet, but investment does not create land. Columbus' ships did not create America. Columbus' ships are capital that combined with labour create added value from existing space, that includes all existing universe that man has not made. If investment would create land, land would not actually exist. And it would be "capital" in economic sense. (That is also the neoclassical narrative = all market payments are from added value)
by kjr63 on Tue May 29th, 2012 at 06:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This was why the neo-classicals sought to redefine the terms to include land as a form of capital and money as a form of capital. That confounds the analysis that allowed George to justify the single tax as a tax on the unimproved value of land, which would have been most inconvenient to large scale insider land speculators, including railroad barrons and those obtaining the land made available for land grant universities. Not only did they get the land, but they also got the power to determine how the new subject of economics would be framed and taught.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue May 29th, 2012 at 07:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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