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Surely we have ZIRP because now the top echelons own so much of the wealth, no-one has anything to pay tribute with.

Of course if the rulers had more feudal powers, they'd find ways to strip more out of the rest of us... but luckily that's not the case for now...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri May 25th, 2012 at 05:55:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If so -- how embarrassing! Because their official economic theories are derivations of the marginalist and it would seem that we have reached the point of diminishing returns on the extraction of wealth by the 0.1% from the rest of the population.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat May 26th, 2012 at 12:40:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course if the rulers had more feudal powers, they'd find ways to strip more out of the rest of us... but luckily that's not the case for now...
ZIRP means that the state charges Zero to the top echelons of wealth for maintaining the value of that wealth. The top echelons of wealth are surely fleecing the rest of the world as usual, and the ZIRP ensures that they earn a good spread on it.
A disturbing snippet from the summit was a statement by Angela Merkel, as reported by Frankfurter Allgemeine, in her argument against eurobonds. She said that the problem with eurobonds were low interest rates, which in the past had led to bubbles and other distortions. (One of the principal attractions for eurobonds is to reduce the extremely high borrowing costs of the periphery. It is one thing for Merkel to object to eurobonds on political and legal grounds, it is quite another to insists that interest rates in these countr[ies] should remain high.)
(seen in the Salon after last week's EU summit)

In other words, it's fine for Germany to fund itself at 0.07% at two years and it's also fine for other countries to pay several percent higher than that. The commercial banks enjoy the ZIRP and charge people and firms upwards of 5 percent for trade credit and higher for consumer credit.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 26th, 2012 at 04:05:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It feels like there's a peculiar pseudo-symmetry between Merkel's folk beliefs about interest rates and JakeS's ideas that low inflate results in money not being used productively...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat May 26th, 2012 at 05:32:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reverse Merkel's preference for who gets the lowest rates and economies might start to heal.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat May 26th, 2012 at 08:59:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a question of whether money is captive or not.

In neoclassical land, capital and money are indistinguishable, and since capital is not captive, neither is money. This means that unless you pay tribute to the holders of money, they will pick up their toys and leave.

In the real world, money and capital are fundamentally different, and money is captive in some ways while capital is captive in others. This means that if you do pay tribute to holders of money, they will be content with collecting the tribute rather than making productive investments.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat May 26th, 2012 at 11:31:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That we have such a concentration of wealth and that so much of that wealth is, effectively, held as cash or equivalents shows that the wealth holders have accumulated and are accumulating that wealth for its own sake and in defiant disregard for the needs of the broader society. There are plenty of socially beneficial investments available that would greatly increase the general welfare but the wealth holders, by and large, do not care and would see such investments as a loss of their relative power and wealth. Having, as they do, control of the money supply, fiscal policy and the instruments of governance they can find no other purpose but to continue to run up the score, as it were. Nemesis may offer the best chance to bring about change for the better.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun May 27th, 2012 at 04:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course if the rulers had more feudal powers, they'd find ways to strip more out of the rest of us... but luckily that's not the case for now...
Yanis Varoufakis: For Europe's sake Greece must renege on its bailout commitments - my op-ed in Le Monde (25 May 2012)
Consider the following indisputable facts:
  • A week ago the bankrupt Greek state borrowed  4.2 billion from Europe's bailout fund (the EFSF) and immediately passed it on to the European Central Bank (ECB) so as to redeem Greek government bonds that the ECB had previously purchased in a failed attempt to shore up their price. This new loan boosted Greece's debt substantially but netted the ECB a profit of around  840 million (courtesy of the 20% discount at which the ECB had purchased these bonds).
  • During the same week, the fiscally stressed Spanish government was injecting large amounts of capital into Spanish banks. Simultaneously, to help finance the Spanish state, the ECB has provided large loans to Spanish banks (at 1% interest rate) which they then re-lent to their `saviour', i.e. the Spanish state, at interest rates often exceeding 6%.
  • For the Greek and the Spanish governments to be `allowed' to borrow the monies involved in the operations described under 1 and 2 above, the ECB and the European Commission (plus, in Greece's case, the International Monetary Fund) demanded of them that they deflate their economies through savage spending cuts which will, with mathematical precision, reduce the national income from which loans, new and old, must be repaid.
  • Average interest rates in the Eurozone (even if we exclude the three countries that have fallen out of the markets and have received `bailouts', and include Germany's crisis-induced ultra-low rates) are at least 1.5% higher than nations with a higher average degree of indebtedness, e.g. the UK.
The German Chancellor (correctly) argues that we cannot escape a debt trap by accumulating more debt. However, consider facts 1,2&4 above: they constitute a typical case of adding debt to debt; of insolvent states borrowing in order to pay a Central Bank that is lending to insolvent banks which, at once, receive capital from insolvent states and lend to them part of the money they themselves borrowed from the Central Bank!
Looks to me like the feudal overlords are doing just fine extracting interest tribute out of the rest of us.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 26th, 2012 at 11:00:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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