SYRIZA and the Eurocrats: a letter of intent | 363 comments (363 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (4.00 / 2)

That... might actually be one of those things that could provoke their creditors to remand their case to the First International Gunboat Collection Agency.

Well, Greece is actually one of the few European nations which have had a reasonable amount of defence spending in the last 20 years or so. So I wouldn't like to try sending any gunboats in that direction.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 05:40:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 1)

No amount of armament procurement can alter the fact that some of their creditors are twenty times their size, in population, GDP and industrial capacity. Remember how Argentina and their Exocet missiles turned out in the end.

Well, I guess nukes could. But they haven't procured those.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 05:58:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 0)

Argentina is a very bad example, for several reasons which I won't go into, as I do not feel you would much enjoy being lectured on the fine details on the Falklands war in general and the Exocet business in particular. :)

A better example would be Finland vs. the Soviet Union, but this would still be a bad example, as no one is counting on a hot war, not in their worst nightmares. I'm not saying anyone would actually attack Greece, but rather that the fact that Greece has powerful armed forces would deter any overly heavyhanded actions from the creditor nations.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 06:05:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 0)

Greece is a Balkan country - they can mount an effective guerrilla resistance in their mountainous terrain.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 06:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 0)

Is there anything other than traditional hostility that would prevent Greece and Turkey, both NATO members, from agreeing to enhanced defense cooperation for both countries out to Greece's airspace limit in the Adriatic?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 09:32:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 0)

See Greece and Turkey: a major peace initiative by Upstate NY on October 26th, 2010

But two years later, nationalistic (even Nazi) positions in Greece have hardened. I don't know how a rapproachment with Turkey would work out internally.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 03:31:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 1)

They are always trying for rapprochement, but the moment needs to be right. This is the worst moment possible because Turkey smells blood. Greece would have to give up legitimate territorial claims at this point to have any alliance with Turkey.

by Upstate NY on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 09:00:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 0)

This is why I disagree that

That's the most encouraging thing I've read yet about this crisis.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 09:13:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 1)

Indeed, and the winds are blowing in the opposite direction. The gas and oil pipelines from Russia/Central Asia to Greece bypass Turkey. The new rapprochement with Israel is already linking up electricity and gas pipelines between Israel/Cyprus/Greece. Eventually these will connect to Italy. They also bypass Turkey.

Greece's problem is that its new friends can be instantly blocked. For one, Israel will do what America asks in regard to Greece. Second, Bulgaria has become a spoiler for Greece in terms of pleasing the USA. The Bulgarians threw a wrench into Russian plans to pipe gas and oil through the Balkans and into Greece/Italy. The opposition in Bulgaria was none too happy about that.

by Upstate NY on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 09:22:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 0)

Maybe I should have written it's the least discouraging thing I read.

Now where are we going and what's with the handbasket?

by budr on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 10:05:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (4.00 / 3)

Related: From Zaman online - "Turkey and Greece have to go beyond stereotypes, says SYRIZA official"

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 11:34:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 1)

Guerilla war is not fun. It's only something you do after you fail at conventional war, because it involves horrific suffering on the part of the civilian population. No matter what, this is irrelevant, as a war between Greece and the creditors is absolutely unconceivable.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 05:06:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 1)

Guerilla war is not fun. It's only something you do after you fail at conventional war, because it involves horrific suffering on the part of the civilian population.

Indeed.

No matter what, this is irrelevant, as a war between Greece and the creditors is absolutely unconceivable.

Inconceivable. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 08:38:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 0)

Well, how would you like me to rephrase it then? About as likely as Germany invading Poland?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 12:43:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 1)

Its (at least in part) a joke.

From Princess Bride. Good movie, jolly good swashbuckling fun.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 12:55:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SYRIZA : a letter of intent (none / 0)

Ack. I sould have taken my iocaine powder.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 01:09:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

SYRIZA and the Eurocrats: a letter of intent | 363 comments (363 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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