Greek election thread | 114 comments (114 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Greek election thread (none / 0)

Would either ND or Syriza be able to form a government with these numbers?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 10:59:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Greek election thread (none / 1)

The percentages add up to 90% so add an additional 10%. You get a 33% seat allocation for the first party, so 130-135 seats with the first-place 50-seat bonus, out of 300.

So, no.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:11:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Greek election thread (none / 0)

I didn't think so, but wasn't sure if there had been signals across parties on willingness to form a coalition.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 11:20:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gridlock? (none / 0)

Reset back to zero & repeat?

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 5)

Am I the only one who thinks of the Weimar Republic?

by Katrin on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:14:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (none / 1)

They had three elections in 1989-90, too.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:30:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 2)

No, I do too.

But, IMO, the Weimar Republic and the current Greek government became failed states for different reasons, with different trajectories.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 6)

The fundamental reason is surprisingly similar: A failed defense of the gold standard, odious hard-currency obligations and foreign occupation and dismantling of core industries.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:45:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 3)

World War One, the defeat of Imperial Germany, and the vindictiveness of the Entente Powers were more direct causes of Weimar Republic becoming a failed state.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 6)

Were they? If you look at electoral results through the '20s, they were pretty consistent with a normal European state at the time. Shit only really hit the fan after 1930.

Yes, the militarization of society and the fact that large parts of the imperial bureaucracy had never quite accepted democracy did not help. But all of those have parallels in contemporary Greece: You have a clientilist two-party system that is prepared to court nazis to remain in power, an increasingly brutalized and politicized police force, and a Germany which is if anything far more vindictive and arrogant in its behaviour than the entente ever was.

As far as I can tell, the main difference is that Greece does not have the industrial or military capacity to pursue the sort of externally-directed revanchism that Germany did. Domestically, OTOH, things can get quite bad.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 4)

Yes. The situation of the gridlock--a deep divide-- favours authoritarian methods out. Elections every few weeks won't change the situation after all.

by Katrin on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 3)

If people want to suffer less (long-term) there is, as I see it, only one reasonable option: emigration. Of course, this option might shut in the medium term. This is especially true if you are young and un(der)-employed: it is pretty clear that groups that still have some form of rent are not going to give it up easily and people that are out of the system (the aforementioned young) are already shut of most benefits of a modern western society. So: run away, while the borders are still open... If you have people you care that stay behind, remit them something from outside.

It is difficult not to see Greece (or Portugal) not to become a failed state in the medium run. People should prepare accordingly (in individual/family terms, I mean).

by cagatacos on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 05:57:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 2)

Very, very true.
Last year Germany anounced that it desperately needed 300,000 higly qualified immigrants mainly engineers. The profligate, lazy southeners from Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal were the target pool.
I don't have the data from Portugal yet but 20,000 Greeks made the move so far.

Brain drain does wonders I guess.

by Euroliberal on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 04:06:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 2)

The Greek DNA will infect their enterprise with laziness. This is a trojan horse.

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 09:30:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 3)

Yes, but there is a scary lot of parallels too.

by Katrin on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (none / 1)

And a ton of differences, as well, which does change the likely outcome.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:38:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (4.00 / 4)

H. Brünig applied economic theories of Hayek.

by PerCLupi on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 03:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (none / 0)

If they repeat this again, that is also a decision.

by oliver on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (none / 1)

Twitter / damomac: Polling station, Corinth:

Polling station, Corinth: ‪#GoldenDawn‬ muscle men in quasi-uniform at school gates. Intimidation in itself. Next to melon seller. ‪#greece2012

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 01:46:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gridlock? (none / 1)

And I do too.

by PerCLupi on Sun Jun 17th, 2012 at 02:51:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Greek election thread | 114 comments (114 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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