Made For Each Other | 83 comments (83 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Made For Each Other (4.00 / 2)

I agree that a large part of the new right, or neo-cons, are quite sympathetic to communist type social organization - provided that their patrons are in charge of the society. This follows directly from Leo Strauss who would have happily been a Nazi had the Nazis not have, unfortunately, chosen to demonize his ethnicity. He greatly admired the ability of such totalitarian organizations to effectively impose their will on the rest of society. And 'globalization' allows the neo-cons to make their oppressive, exploitative system, at least potentially, universal, as was the original vision of Soviet Communism under Lenin.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jun 20th, 2012 at 12:56:29 PM EST

Re: Made For Each Other (4.00 / 2)

Phil does something that's perfectly fine and is Logically correct; he uses empirical definitions of for the categories "Communism" and "Conservatives" and then shows the intersection of the two. From a purely Logical stance, that is the best procedure.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Wed Jun 20th, 2012 at 01:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Made For Each Other (4.00 / 2)

Strauss was a run-of-the-mill Right Wing Hegelian, something that really didn't exist in the US before 1940.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Wed Jun 20th, 2012 at 01:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Made For Each Other (4.00 / 3)

I agree about Right Wing Hegelian, but from Wiki:

Originally trained in the Neo-Kantian tradition with Ernst Cassirer and immersed in the work of the phenomenologists Edmund Husserl and Martin Heidegger, Strauss later focused his research on the Greek texts of Plato and Aristotle, retracing their interpretation through medieval Islamic and Jewish philosophy, and encouraged application of their ideas to contemporary political theory.

He believed that it was necessary and 'good' for leaders to lie to the public and, while not personally religious, he believed religion was essential as a means of control for the elite over the commoners. Another natural fit for neo-cons with the religious right. Suggest a few other of the 'run of the mill' right wing Hegelians. Are any of them comparably pernicious?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jun 20th, 2012 at 03:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Made For Each Other (none / 0)

Mircea Eliade (can not remember whether in Myth and Reality or in The Sacred and the Profane) compares the organization "Communist" (Leninism-Stalinism) with the organization of the Catholic Church.

by PerCLupi on Thu Jun 21st, 2012 at 01:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Made For Each Other (4.00 / 2)

There are similarities, but the uniting commonality it the use of or push towards totalitarianism. Phil Paine is 'framing' the discussion in terms of communism for rhetorical purposes, as there is a lot of similarities and as the right wing looters have invested enormous energy in making even the concept of communism phobic to the general public. I find this framing potentially powerful and amusing at the same time. Social jujitsu at its best.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 21st, 2012 at 02:36:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Careful... (4.00 / 2)

the term "totalitarianism" is an ideological construct with a very specific ideological content.

It's a loaded word. We'd best get beyond it. And, in any event, "totalitarianism" as Hannah Arendt, among others, meant it, hasn't existed on earth outside of marginal pockets like North Korea for decades (at least four, and over a half century even for the Soviet Union).

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs

by redstar on Thu Jun 21st, 2012 at 02:50:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Careful... (4.00 / 2)

"totalitarianism" as Hannah Arendt, among others, meant it, hasn't existed on earth outside of marginal pockets like North Korea for decades...

The Chinese Communist Party retains all of the apparatus and legal structure necessary to exercise classical totalitarianism. They have chosen not to exercise those powers in the most obvious and brutal manner on a regular basis since Deng Xiaoping, and they might be a bit rusty, but they retain the capability and still use the surveillance capabilities. When they need they can still use the more brutal aspects, right down to the practice of sending a bill to the family of one executed for the cost of the bullet.

More ominously for myself and other US citizens, laws passed under Bush after 911 have put similar capabilities on the books for the US Government. Obama, who taught constitutional law, has made no effort to repeal those laws. That they have not been broadly applied to the average citizen is small comfort.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 21st, 2012 at 10:35:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Careful... (4.00 / 2)

I think there's a useful distinction to be made between a tyranny that tells you what you can't do and then leaves you alone as long as you don't do it (think Singapore, or most historical monarchs), and a tyranny that tells you what you must do and then never leaves you alone again (think North Korea or the British Empire).

Of course, the line is blurred because if the latter is sufficiently incompetent or rules a sufficiently technologically backwards jurisdiction, it will look a lot like the latter. I'm sure the counter-reformation would have liked to impose a totalitarian rule on their lands. But that just wasn't gonna happen given technological capabilities at the time.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 22nd, 2012 at 05:12:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Made For Each Other (4.00 / 2)

And I would not want to emphaisise the commonalities with the Catholic Church because that would immediately turn off many who might otherwise be part of the audience. In the USA and in Canada there really is no significant Communist Party, so emphaiszing the avidity with which those fronting for the looters display for doing business and transferring manufacturing to China, and the miserable conditions under which that labor is provided, along with noting the hostility which the interests of US workers are viewed only harms those which we want to harm.

Another pillar which could buttress a portrait of these looter elites as wannabe totalitarians is the avidity with which many of the older families among them, such as the Bushes, the Fords, the Rockefellers, etc. embraced and did business with the Third Reich and the extent to which they admired Hitler for how effectively he dealt with labor protests. Totalitarianism is about operational methods and mores. It can espouse left or right ideology with equal fervor and vacuity. Hannah Arendt's work comes to mind.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 21st, 2012 at 02:47:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Made For Each Other | 83 comments (83 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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