The Manufacturing of Consent | 134 comments (132 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: The Manufacturing of Consent (4.00 / 3)

Despite the Ireland vote, I start to sense a certain scare in US, UK... about Spain.. and in Spain..(in Spain theya re scare to hell, luckily they are more scared of the a possible intervention, they see Greece and all the power of spanish bankers disappear)) It can certainly be that they realize they are too close to the precipice for comfort.. or it could be something completely different..

So what's your take? Are european elites panicking at long last, over all the german elite? Or not...

can we expect some banking union soon...so that at least the euro survives a couple of months more?

I ask not only Frank.. but anybody around....

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Jun 6th, 2012 at 03:00:22 PM EST

Germans against the Euro? (none / 1)

German firms urge rejection of stability mechanism - The Irish Times - Sat, Jun 09, 2012

A protest letter signed by 350 of Germany's best-known companies such as Kärcher, Henkel and Würth attacks the bailout fund and disputes what it calls the "myth that Europe can only survive as a transfer union".
The companies take issue with "political whitewash" over the euro, which it sees as a "driving force for dispute, jealousy and hate" in today's Europe.
"The coercion and consequences of a common currency are beginning to divide European peoples permanently," said the statement. "Not every means is permitted to save the euro - and those who want to save the euro at any price risk the price being Europe." With its statement the association joins a growing wave of protest against the European Stability Mechanism in Germany.
Agreed by EU leaders last July, the ESM is scheduled to begin working next month as a permanent bailout fund with a total financial capacity of €700 billion.

Given that the ESM was the only reason the Irish were persuaded to vote for the Stability Treaty, a failure by Germany to ratify the ESM would be regarded as a breach of trust of the highest order. But for German firms to lobby against the ESM seems like turkeys voting for Christmas, given that they have been the primary beneficiaries of the Euro.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sat Jun 9th, 2012 at 11:42:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Germans against the Euro? (4.00 / 2)

Turns out they're right at least in this

"The coercion and consequences of a common currency are beginning to divide European peoples permanently," said the statement. "Not every means is permitted to save the euro - and those who want to save the euro at any price risk the price being Europe."

As to

Given that the ESM was the only reason the Irish were persuaded to vote for the Stability Treaty, a failure by Germany to ratify the ESM would be regarded as a breach of trust of the highest order.

As an advocate of the No in the recent referendum, all I can tell the Irish government and the yes side is "cry me a river".

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 9th, 2012 at 01:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Germans against the Euro? (none / 0)

a failure by Germany to ratify the ESM would be regarded as a breach of trust of the highest order.

Perhaps the Irish expect to be betrayed and are used, even comfortable, playing the role of the betrayed.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:28:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Germans against the Euro? (none / 1)

That stereotype might have had some content in the colonial and immediate post colonial period because of the manner the Brits used to use informers to undermine local resistance, but it really has no relevance to the current political situation. Germany failing to keep its word undermines all manner of official and popular narratives - a bit like the Swabian housewife having an affair on the side on which she spends her husband's earnings...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:48:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Germans against the Euro? (none / 1)

So, what do you expect Fine Gael to do if/when Germany fails to ratify the ESM? And how is the government reacting to the claim by the Spanish government that they will not be required to implement additional austerity as a condition of getting money for their banks? And what would they do were that to turn out to be substantially true?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:33:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Germans against the Euro? (4.00 / 3)

The Irish Government has an ongoing campaign to renegotiate its bank bail-out deal and if the Spaniards end up getting a better deal, the Irish Government will expect those terms to apply retrospectively to Ireland. Failing that, their only real threat is to default of the Anglo Irish promissory notes - something that would drive Angela and the ECB nuts, but which they can do little about because that debt was not covered by the Bank guarantee or the Troika deal.

Whether Fine Gael have the balls to actually follow through on that threat is another matter...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Jun 10th, 2012 at 05:30:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Germans against the Euro? (none / 1)

Frank Schnittger:

But for German firms to lobby against the ESM seems like turkeys voting for Christmas, given that they have been the primary beneficiaries of the Euro.

operative words: 'have been'

the glory days of local rich(ly indebted) local consumer markets are done, kaput... on to the new bric frontier!

we're tapped out for now, and will be until/unless we put finance back in the padded cell again, and change the energy paradigm.

they could lend us more fake money to buy more audis, but they have seen the writing on the wall, the payback will be too amortised, too far off into the future horizon to be even remotely virtual.

party's over, best to leave before the cops arrive to mop up the blood and glass shards.

"It's very hard to see what is kept invisible" Roseanne Barr

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jun 9th, 2012 at 11:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Germans against the Euro? (none / 0)

Cry "Havoc," and let slip the German dogs of dissolution. That was quicker than I expected.

by rifek on Mon Jun 11th, 2012 at 02:09:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Manufacturing of Consent (4.00 / 2)

kcurie:

I ask not only Frank.. but anybody around....

the banks are fucked, period.

and no-one wants to end his career by admitting it.

cause without banks we are little squirmy little human maggots, we all know that.

banks represent all that's good and fine in our society, prudence, thrift and conservative wisdom, right?

they deserve those private hidey-hole cayman accounts and mega-bonuses, didn't you get the memo?

we deserve nothing, indeed we are as nothing, without working ATM's and lotsa cheap credit, life on the never-never, la la la.

and anyone who says different is pinko slime, yar boo.

news at 11... man bites face off poster of che guevara.

going dooooooown with a grin, because we ran out of floors on the elevator to crazy.

see appended sig.

"It's very hard to see what is kept invisible" Roseanne Barr

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:06:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Manufacturing of Consent (none / 1)

We just keep floating down that very large river in Africa.

by rifek on Mon Jun 11th, 2012 at 02:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Manufacturing of Consent | 134 comments (132 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)

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