Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? | 88 comments (88 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

When the left/liberals go against the silent majority on social/cultural issues, it pushes the working classes into voting for the right and against their own economic interests. Why does this happen? Because the working classes of the West have become so wealthy since the war ended, that they now consider economic issues secondary to social and cultural ones.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Jul 18th, 2012 at 04:39:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 1)

So, let's impoverish everyone else and have the socially backwards paradise the working classes long for?

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 18th, 2012 at 04:43:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

I don't see how you reach that conclusion?

My argument is that as long as you don't overstretch on social progressivism, you will keep economic progressivism. Overstretch and you might well lose both.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Jul 18th, 2012 at 04:49:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (4.00 / 6)

Well - we do rather seem to have completely lost social progressivism already, don't we?

Depending on what you mean by 'economic progressivism' we may well have lost that too.

But here is a thing - social progressivism isn't particularly about cash. It's about having a vision for the future.

Economic progressivism has no vision at all. It's about the next quarter, or occasionally about the next year.

If you limit your politics to economics, you have a car with an overheated engine, no brakes, and no steering wheel.

Perhaps this isn't an entirely good thing.

I'd suggest that the tragedy of Thatcher, Sarkozy, Merkel, Cameron, Blair and the rest, isn't just that they're clearly lying little shits and unpleasant people.

It's that they have no vision beyond strictly limited self-interest. They have no ability to plan for a more creative and enjoyable future.

Getting rid of the banks isn't going to be nearly enough. We need to find people with passion, imagination and intellect and put them in charge of things - not just to make things happen, but to make it possible for better things to happen.

At a guess we're not going to find those people among the usual suspects.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jul 18th, 2012 at 06:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 1)

ThatBritGuy:

At a guess we're not going to find those people among the usual suspects.

hardey ha..

if those 'unpleasant little shits' would move out of the middle of the road, we would be able to get somewhere better.

they're fifth columnists who open the town gates to the robbers without.

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 18th, 2012 at 06:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

The middle of the road is the best place to be hit by a bus or a hit-and-run driver.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 18th, 2012 at 09:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

Agreed. Squatting in the middle of their own side is understandable, straddling the centre line facing each other brings total stasis.

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 at 08:23:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

Yes? Bill Clinton is quite the charmer, as far as we know. That doesn't change anything about his New Democrats policies.

by IM on Thu Jul 19th, 2012 at 04:05:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (4.00 / 4)

You are assuming facts not in evidence. a) a good part of the working class doesn't think it is wealthy If they don't seem to care about economic issues it is because they have resigned. And b) the divide in so called social issues is a young/old divide. Not a class divide.

While I don't have proof at my fingertips either, at least I do have an example: the pirates in Germany get a very considerable share of working-class votes. And diffuse as they are, social conservatives they are not.

by IM on Thu Jul 19th, 2012 at 04:03:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (4.00 / 5)

I suspect this whole "the working class is social conservative" spiel is mostly based on party leaders deciding that the working class wants what they are ready to give them. Uneasy about job security and cuts in the healthcare system? Well how about we restrict immigration?

Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter

by generic on Thu Jul 19th, 2012 at 06:54:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (4.00 / 2)

In the UK the working class are famously racist. Labour was never entirely immune to this.

Unfortunately they don't get that immigration and job theft are always allowed because they lower wages.

So it's trivially easy for demagogues to encourage immigration for business, then turn it into a political issue at election time.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 19th, 2012 at 07:39:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 1)

Worse here in the US, which is why we have a significant part of the electorate riled up over a non-white president.

by rifek on Sat Jul 21st, 2012 at 09:22:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

I recomend Krugmans The Conscience of a Liberal, where he discusses the Civil rights issue from this perspective. Or just talk to some working class people. My impression is that social radicalism, or whatever you would like to call it, is very much concentrated to the upper middle class: journalists, teachers, doctors, academics and so on.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Jul 19th, 2012 at 10:37:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

When the left/liberals go against the silent majority on social/cultural issues, it pushes the working classes into voting for the right and against their own economic interests. Why does this happen? Because the working classes of the West have become so wealthy since the war ended, that they now consider economic issues secondary to social and cultural ones.

Insofar as cause is generally recognized to precede consequence, this story is untenable in the face of the historical experience of Western Europe. Union busting came first, the ugly parties followed in its wake like stink on a dogshit.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 22nd, 2012 at 10:09:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

I'm not sure how things stand in Denmark, but around here unions are not in the least busted.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Sun Jul 22nd, 2012 at 12:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? (none / 0)

The gutting of their ability to prevent strikebreaking and maintain closed shops is already complete. The rise of part-time, temporary, "flexible" work has destroyed the ability to organize several whole sectors.

But more importantly, with the shift from full-employment policies to permanent-unemployment policies, the sack regained its power to compel obedience, and workers are not yet reduced to the sort of devil-may-care desperation required to effectively organize in that sort of environment. Unless current policies are reversed, they will be. But that will be then, and this is now.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2012 at 03:57:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is the UK Coalition about to implode ? | 88 comments (88 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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