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Did you hear how Spain is dismantling its renewable energy industry as a result of Troika austerity while Germany presses ahead with R&D at negative interest rates?

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 6th, 2012 at 01:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See 5 months ago.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 6th, 2012 at 01:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What i said was it's not ALL bad.

The same Germany who is (expletive deleted) Spain in the (some body parts are not considered respectfully in the media and thus not allowed), is full of people who aren't responsible for the BuBa policies, but still managed to make greater steps to a sustainable present than anywhere else.

One could also legitimately argue that Spain's renewable energy industry was somewhat ill-begotten, meaning expropriated technology. (Though it's not China, and some companies have made huge technological advances.)

What's important is that in a few months, perhaps as long as three quarters, Spain will be back in the mix, because there's just too much to lose.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 6th, 2012 at 01:15:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One could also legitimately argue that Spain's renewable energy industry was somewhat ill-begotten, meaning expropriated technology. (Though it's not China, and some companies have made huge technological advances.)

Spanish feed-in law encouraged companies to use current technology instead of inventing new technology. Limited quotas ment that they were busy to start new plants which limited the time needed for testing improvements.

by Jute on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 04:28:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Could you argue that in more detail? As in, what parts of the feed-in law had this effect and what were the signs of using current technology instead of inventing new technology? There are some details which don't seem to rhyme with your claim: Gamesa first installed some of its newly developed turbines in Spain (including the G128), and a significant domestic industry developed on the CSP market. On the other hand, the test plant in which the wind turbine towers double as pumped hydro storage tanks which Crazy Horse showed us the other day appear to be a Gamesa project but it will be built in Germany.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:34:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have mostly followed csp sector so I can't comment on wind turbine industry. The tariff for the first plants worth certain amount of megawatts combined with uncertain future  led to a race to build through plants which use oil. Predetermined degression timetable may have better encouraged to test other heat transfer fluids or towers which were more promising techonologies at the time.
by Jute on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:58:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At the time? And now?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 07:03:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a Spanish quip: "let them invent".

It is due to Miguel de Unamuno, a writer and philosopher of the first third of the 20th century, in a debate with José Ortega y Gasset (who wrote "Spain is the problem, Europe is the solution").

La frase se da en distintas aunque coincidentes formulaciones: Primero en una carta de Unamuno a Ortega del 30 de mayo de 1906 (Yo me voy sintiendo profundamente antieuropeo. ¿Que ellos inventan cosas?, invéntenlas). Poco después, en julio del mismo año, en un artículo en forma de diálogo de dos personajes:
ROMÁN.- Inventen, pues, ellos y nosotros nos aprovecharemos de sus invenciones. Pues confío y espero en que estarás convencido, como yo lo estoy, de que la luz eléctrica alumbra aquí tan bien como allí donde se inventó.
SABINO.- Acaso mejor.
    El pórtico del templo
Ortega anunció su intención de publicar unas disputas contra la desviación africanista de Unamuno, que no termina escribiendo.
(wiki)
The phrase is given in different but coincident formulations: first in a letter from Unamuno to Ortega on 30 may 1906 (I am feeling more and more deeply anti-European. That they invent things? Let them). Shortly after, in july of the same year, in an article in the form of a dialogue between two characters:
ROMÁN.- Let them, thus, invent, and we will take advantage of their inventions. For I trust and hope that you will be convinced, as I am, that electric light shines just as well here as there where it was invented.
SABINO.- Maybe better.
    The portico of the temple
Ortega announced hs intention to publish disputes against Unamuno's africanist deviation, which in the end he didn't write.
This is at the time of the second industrial revolution, when Germany was developing the automobile and the chemical industry.

Spain had no lack of inventors or scientists (notably Torres-Quevedo, Juan de la Cierva, Isaac Peral or Ramón y Cajal), but it was hindered by a rentier culture, and to this day it is still not friendly to high-value-added employment.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:48:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Germany twenty years before that built a lot of industry by importing methods from England. IIRC, the whole "Made in ..." started as a Brittish protective method against cheap German knock-offs.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:44:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See here.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 07:11:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Very interesting, had missed (or forgotten) that one.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 04:58:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking for patent and development in Germany in the late 19th century, I found this about patents in neighbouring Switzerland:

Gerster, R. (2001): Patents and Development. Lessons Learnt from the Economic History of Switzerland, Third World Network, Penang/Malaysia 2001.


This situation, however, is nothing new. In 1883, in a message directed to "high- level federal
authorities", eleven Swiss industrialists expressed their hope "in the interest of the general
welfare of our industries and commercial enterprises", that "the 'cup of sorrows' of patent
protection might pass from us untouched" (Beitrag 1883). This statement was signed by
individuals whose names -among them Benziger, Bühler, Geigy, Jenny, Rieter, Steiger,
Schwarzenbach and Ziegler - constituted a roster of leaders in Swiss industry. The textile
manufacturer Steiger offered the retrospective view that " Swiss industrial development was
fostered by the absence of patent protection. If patent protection had been in effect, neither the
textile industry nor the machine-building industry could have laid the foundations for
subsequent development, nor would they have flourished as they did" (Protocoll 1883, 83).

Conditions one hundred years ago were ideal: as a rule, Swiss industrial inventions could be
patented abroad, where patent legislation was in effect. But as Switzerland had no patent laws,
Swiss industries were free to copy foreign inventions without restriction. This situation
was richly exploited. It was not without good reason that the cry was heard from France, "La
Suisse, le pays de contre- facteurs" ("Switzerland, the land of counterfeiters", see Beitrag
1883, 52). In the German Reichstag Switzerland was repeatedly characterised as a "pirate
state" and a "predator state" for copying products such as aspirin and heroin without
permission. At a Swiss patent congress, A. Benziger, a manufacturer from central
Switzerland, declared, "Our industries owe their current state of development to what we have
borrowed from foreign countries. If this constitutes theft, then all our manufacturers are
thieves" (Protocoll 1883, 88).

Pdf, hence the formatting.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...and specifically on what you say on the "Made In..." labels: I find that indeed the origin is the Merchandise Marks Act of 1887, though this protectionist measure doesn't seem to have been specifically against German products originally (and the measure backfired, see pdf page 3 here or this 1897 parliamentary debate).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 07:55:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I found this that appears to match my recollection.

Made in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The label was originally introduced in Britain by the Merchandise Marks Act 1887[1], to mark foreign produce more obviously, as British society considered foreign produce to be inferior to domestic produce, and tried to get buyers to adhere to the concept of 'buying British'[citation needed].

In 1894, the German Reichstag's commission already reported that after suffering slight losses, German manufacturers soon found the label to be of good use since they could distinguish themselves better from the British manufacturers.[this quote needs a citation] This led to more and more manufacturers voluntarily applying the label, and not even World War I, in which marks were mandatory in Britain in order to boycott the Central Powers countries' products,[citation needed], could dent the growing popularity of the mark.

The term Made in Germany was soon associated with product reliability, quality and even perfection[citation needed].

My memory, it needs citations. Can't find where the narrative comes from, but I am apparently not alone in picking it up.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The difference between Spain under the Restoration and the German Empire under Bismarck.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 09:36:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In my sector, there is Alejandro Goicoechea of Talgo fame, too, though I see his political record is less boastful.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 07:17:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Goicoechea I would put in the second third of the 20th century.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 09:38:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One could also legitimately argue that Spain's renewable energy industry was somewhat ill-begotten, meaning expropriated technology.

Do you mean the relationship of Vestas and Gamesa?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:04:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The same people who supported Troika policies in Spain are also actively working on undermining the renewable energy industry in Germany. And it's exclusively the Rahoy government's fault that they chose to suspend the feed-in law in Spain, instead of transforming it into something not involving tax money.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Aug 6th, 2012 at 05:45:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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