Ratline for tax evaders | 34 comments (34 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Seed comment/Tip Jar (4.00 / 5)

There was another noteworthy move in the SPD over the weekend: former federal finance minister Peer Steinbrück endorsed the idea of a European debt union. Steinbrück is the most economically right-wing (and regrettably, the most popular) of the SPD's three lame duck chancellor candidate hopefuls (the others being Gabriel and former federal foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier). This idea is connected to Gabriel's "left-populism light" campaign strategy, and Steinbrück was the last to swing behind it – of course not without reinforcing his agreement with core Merkel-Schäuble tenets like reduced fiscal sovereignity for bailed-out countries and blaming Greece for failing to deliver reforms promised in exchange for "our money".

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Aug 12th, 2012 at 07:34:30 AM EST

Re: Seed comment/Tip Jar (none / 0)

The idea is not connected to a populist campaign. It is opposed to a populist campaign. For a candidate who as finance minister propped up the banks this is necessary. For the party as a whole this is bad. Populism and nuanced complex answers don't mix. You just appear phony.

If you try populism, you must do it right and the party's leadership must reflect the choice of strategy.

by oliver on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 03:43:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seed comment/Tip Jar (4.00 / 3)

The idea is not connected to a populist campaign. It is opposed to a populist campaign.

There doesn't need to be a contradiction: there can be simultaneous opposed populisms. I qualify Gabriel's campaign strategy populist not because I'd think he is irresponsibly bringing up bad ideas (like the anti-debt-union and anti-Greece campaign of German conservatives) but because I don't think that a deep understanding of the economics is behind it, only a calculation of what can be used to differentiate the party from the CDU in the campaign. So I doubt a consequent policy would follow once in power.

For a candidate who as finance minister propped up the banks this is necessary.

How so? Steinbrück opposed it previously, Schäuble still opposes it.

Populism and nuanced complex answers don't mix. You just appear phony.

Only if the majority of your audience isn't deluded or clueless. I think Steinbrück mixes the two opposed populisms into one nuanced complex answer in that interview, but the majority of even the Süddeutsche readership probably doesn't see how phony it is.

If you try populism, you must do it right and the party's leadership must reflect the choice of strategy.

What do you mean? In detail?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 05:50:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seed comment/Tip Jar (none / 1)

Steinbrück opposed it previously

Upon checking, I retract that: he de-facto advocated a debt union when talking about Eurobonds (and argued that Merkel & co already created one with the EFSF) in September 2011.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 06:34:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seed comment/Tip Jar (none / 0)

There doesn't need to be a contradiction: there can be simultaneous opposed populisms.

Yes. Your populist demands can contradict each other. But they must all be popular. That is not optional. Debt union is deeply unpopular in Germany and the outlook is worsening.

If that demand appears next to your populist demands your spin doctoring is atrocious. If you have somebody who makes such demands you must make very clear that when a government would be formed, he won't be in a position to make good on such demands.

Steinbrück in effect put a stick into Gabriel's bicycle's front wheel. If the campaign is supposed to be credible, there must be consequences.

by oliver on Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 12:52:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seed comment/Tip Jar (4.00 / 2)

Your populist demands can contradict each other. But they must all be popular.

I don't think so. A deft populist makes the populace swallow something unpopular (or even change its opinion on it) by making it part of the parcel. The US republicans do it all the time. (And a stupid populist can be mistaken about what's popular.)

Steinbrück in effect put a stick into Gabriel's bicycle's front wheel.

How so? Gabriel endorses debt union, too.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 04:30:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seed comment/Tip Jar (none / 0)

Speaking of populists with not yet majority-supported platforms, there is yet another call for Bavarian independence.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 04:41:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seed comment/Tip Jar (none / 0)

Yesterday the Swiss ambassador to Germany issued a threat that Switzerland, too, may drop the bilateral agreement, and certainly won't agree to negotiations about anything better. Well, we'll see about that if panicked customers leave in droves.

Meanwhile, as expected, German states (not just NRW) report a new spike in self-reports to the police.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 07:07:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seed comment/Tip Jar (none / 1)

Süddeutsche learnt that SPD leaders in states where they participate in state governments held a telephone conference on Monday. It transpired that now all of them (including previously vacillating Baden-Württenberg [junior partners to the Greens], Berlin [senior partners to the CDU] and Hamburg [government alone]) are firm in their intention to reject the Swiss-German tax agreement when it will be up for a vote again in the Bundesrat this autumn. Meanwhile, in Switzerland, there is a signature collection for a referendum to repeal the agreement, too.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Aug 16th, 2012 at 04:10:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (none / 1)

Corrupt, captured federal politicians and the regulators who work for them indulge wealthy contributors in their criminal behavior regardless of the effect of that behavior on the electorate and on the stated priorities of the government, while the occasional state level official acts - to the great embarrassment and anger of the federal politicians. In this system the most that can be hoped for is a fine that might be large enough for the offending bank to actually notice. Libor in the U.K. and Standard Chartered in the U.S. are examples comparable to that exposed by the new purchase of CDs with incriminating evidence regarding tax evasion by the NRW SPD.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Aug 12th, 2012 at 10:28:57 AM EST

Re: Same old song! (4.00 / 3)

I think for our purposes a key difference between the US and German federal system is the states' influence on federal decisions via the upper house of parliament; that is, the action of some state officials can sink the entire agreement that would have perpetuated impunity.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 05:59:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (none / 1)

Let us hope that lack of impunity results in serious consequences - both for the banks and for those hiding their wealth and income from taxation. A billion Euro fine on activity that could involve tens of trillions of wealth would just still be a cost of doing business. And how likely is it that the federal government would follow up with aggressive investigations where the evidence leads and further prosecutions? In the US it would appear that The New York Superintendent of Financial Services, Lawsky, has the power to pull the license of Standard Chartered and deny them access to US$ clearing services, yet the argument seems to be over the size of the fine. Any punishment that would threaten the solvency of the bank would likely be fought with lawsuits until there was a change of state governors and of regulators.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 10:18:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (4.00 / 2)

And how likely is it that the federal government would follow up with aggressive investigations where the evidence leads and further prosecutions?

A quick reply: if it comes to criminal proceedings, Germany's attorney general is an independent position, not a government minister like in the USA.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 10:36:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (none / 0)

Are there NRW prosecutors who could proceed independently and how is the Federal prosecutor selected?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 11:00:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (4.00 / 4)

Neither federal prosecutors nor state ones can proceed independently. Theoretically the minister of justice of NRW (this is not a federal matter) can stop the prosecution or parts of it. I don't think the government of NRW would have bought the CD if they didn't want to use it though.

Prosecutors are civil servants and appointed by bureaucracy and not elected. They are independent of the public opinion, but not of the government.

by Katrin on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 11:10:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (4.00 / 2)

I think the federal prosecutor could come into the picture if Gabriel's rhetoric can be argued legally: if Swiss banks come under suspicion of having formed a criminal organisation with a significant negative impact on the German state.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 02:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (none / 0)

Ha, what next? That would be not much better than sending Steinbrück's cavallery. We don't need that escalation, I think.

by Katrin on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 03:52:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (none / 1)

It worked for the USA, to the extent they wanted it to work. UBS gave up a bunch of names.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 01:14:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (4.00 / 2)

In Germany only certain crimes against the state are prosecuted on the federal level. I don't think it would be wise from a diplomatic point of view to argue this. There would be a political problem too: it would place the prosecution on the one level that supports the treaty with Switzerland.

by Katrin on Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 04:26:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Same old song! (4.00 / 4)

I add to Katrin's that while federal and state prosecutors can be stopped by the respective justice ministers, they do have the right (or duty) to take initiative, and there is some political difference between an investigation that never started (where the minister is on his own claiming that it is pointless) and one stopped (where the minister's opinion contradicts the prosecutor's). In practice, that may not amount to much if justice ministers are informed and can tell prosecutors to stop before they start an investigation, or if prosecutors are part of the gang, too, which leads to your question on selection. The federal general attorney is nominated by the federal justice minister for eigth years, and approved by the upper house of parliament. The state prosecutors are named similarly, but I don't know if there is a general method of approval.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 02:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ratline for tax evaders (4.00 / 4)

Corrupt bank employees wants to sell information and the government of NRW wants to buy. The CDU and FDP just hates market economy.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Aug 12th, 2012 at 02:32:43 PM EST

Don't fall into that trap, please (4.00 / 5)

The purchase of stolen bank data

Bank or other data rarely get stolen, they get copied and are made available to other persons and institutions than originally intended. If a bank clerk steals my bicycle he can ride it and I must walk. If he copies and sells bank data, the data are still there and can be used. Additionally they can be used by the buyer too. The two really aren't the same.

by Katrin on Sun Aug 12th, 2012 at 02:56:05 PM EST

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (none / 1)

Well then "obtained illegally" would be better. But, in terms of whistleblowers, I'd also differentiate between true heroes like Bradley Manning and employees (or hackers) who did it for a substantial profit.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 05:55:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (4.00 / 4)

Differentiate, yes, but where the financial statements of tax cheats are concerned, I think the rhetoric should be "open season." Not because the bounty hunters are heroes but because their bounties are scum.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 06:10:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (none / 1)

Differentiate, yes, but where the financial statements of tax cheats are concerned, I think the rhetoric should be "open season." Not because the bounty hunters are heroes but because their bounties are scum.

Yes, this.

by Zwackus on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 06:20:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (4.00 / 2)

I think they only qualify as informants of the sheriff. The scum are caught by the authorities, after all, and Switzerland is harrassing the German tax agents.

Swiss hunt German tax men for 'spying' - The Local

Three tax inspectors who bought a stolen CD in their chase for German tax evaders have been told they must stay out of Switzerland or face arrest, after a cross-border tax spat turned nasty.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 06:40:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (none / 1)

It would be better to use different agents the next time in any case. But this might remain awkward for the agents who purchased the CD that is the subject of the present furor, especially if they vacation or have business holdings in Switzerland. Give 'em a medal and a bonus as compensation.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 10:24:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (4.00 / 4)

Probably obtained illegally, but we don't actually know that. German prosecutors are allowed to use material that was at some point obtained illegally, so this is not the point. The main argument in the debate is one of privacy protection. Since the people whose data are on the CD are the same people who support laws that allow to check if an unemployed person is living with a partner so that his or her benefits can be cut, my compassion is very limited indeed.

by Katrin on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 06:54:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (none / 1)

I don't disagree at all: the context for me bringing it up was reporting the agreement's introduction of a new ban on using this material; the moaning of the supporters of the tax cheaters; and Schäuble's rethoric.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 07:40:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (4.00 / 3)

Do Piraten make a point of this hypocrisy? They should imo as they are in the position to do just that if they are opposing this trade anyway. The government should not trade information to spy on the citizens, pity CDU and FDP only understands this when it comes to wealthy peoples tax fraud and so on.

In Sweden, former justice minister Bodström was a couple of years ago pushing for more drug controls and a journalist offered him to step up and leave a blood sample directly after the interview to the lab technician that was standing by. Bodström refused, which of course caused quite some "what has he got to hide"-rethoric. The Pirates otoh defended his right not leave a blood sample while bemoaning the fact that so many politicians, in particular Bodström, are so fast to sign away privacy.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 05:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (4.00 / 2)

In general drug taking is a strictly private affair so it is not a public interest to test for them(Nota bene that testing a driver is another matter) while tax are a public affair and people who do not pay their share are prejudicing the whole public so it is legitimate to verify what are the true ressources of other people. Workers have all their incomes traced by the state, no reason to exclude the wealthy from that.

res humà m'és aliè

by Antoni Jaume on Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 04:40:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (4.00 / 2)

He, in Sweden drug use is illegal and that is supported by a large majority (political scientists here sometimes use decriminalisation of copying (majority for) and decriminalisation of narcotics (massive majority against) as opposite positions among controversial political topics). Only question here is what measures are ok to enforce it. So that is the context. Private matter? No, you must be thinking of alcohol.

Anyway, I did not say I agree with Piratens position here, just that they have a rethorical opportunity given their present position. And since they wield no votes in either chamber of the federal legislation, and has no swing vote position in any state (thanks in large psrt to the German tradition of majority governments) rethorics is all it is.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 02:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't fall into that trap, please (none / 1)

Right. And instead of stating a position that makes sense they react with a statement by impulse: always privacy protection. Idiots. They had the chance to explain why people must be able to trust that their personal life isn't under surveillance, that crimes can still be investigated, and how the two are kept apart. They didn't use this chance. Grr.

by Katrin on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 03:19:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ratline for tax evaders (none / 1)

the most important information is not the names of tax cheats, but evidence on the hollowing out of the agreement before it even comes into force: the bankers were advising German clients on moving their money further into other tax havens like Singapore.

This is reminiscent of NAFTA and WTO protests which did nothing to stop the agreements from being signed and implemented, but it does show the consequence of allowing the general population to continue to believe that 'rule of law' actually applies. The electorate's expectations contradict the political necessities of the politicians.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 10:34:49 AM EST

Ratline for tax evaders | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

Newspeak to English pocket dictionary

Quantifying Utopia: A UBI Calculator for the USA

A Nomad's Life (A Farewell)

Standing on the Shoulders of Giants - Europe and the Mongol...

Simple Solar Principles

Rail News Blogging #24

Ferguson hates on Keynes

The Brussels Consensus: economic disaster in EU candidate...

Recent Diaries

Simple Solar Principles

Quantifying Utopia: A UBI Calculator for the USA

Newspeak to English pocket dictionary

Standing on the Shoulders of Giants - Europe and the Mongol...

Rail News Blogging #24

A Nomad's Life (A Farewell)

The Brussels Consensus: economic disaster in EU candidate...

Origins of German Neo-Austerianism

Ferguson hates on Keynes

Dionysian revels: Nice, May Day 2013:

Anglo Or Not, It's A Disease

The UK and the Euro

Free Energy: Solar and Dynamo LED Keychain Lights

Kruganomics 101

Gold

Corporate Profits and Aggregate Demand

VC Investment: Then and Now

An Ambush of Wishful thinking and Cargo Cult law.

The Intellectual Foundations of Austerity destroyed

Spring is Sprung - Photoblog

Occasional Series