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Can't the Koch brothers many thinktanks hire a new gang if the first gang quit? Or has the Tea Party expanded from its start as plain billionaire financed astroturf?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 05:07:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As the book What's the matter with Kansas? and subsequent controversies demonstrated, the question of why social conservatives support economic conservatives who systematically rip them off and do little effective to implement their socially conservative agenda is complex and not reducible to "plain billionaire financed astroturf".

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 05:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, there's just way to much crazy enthusiasm for them to be all astroturf.  They're way too . . . um . . . silly.  And old.  A truly fake astroturf movement would hire photogenic and appealing actors and salt them with the local Young Republicans, not deadly earnest old people with handmade signs declaring such insanities as, "Keep your government hands off my medicare!", and "Get a clue, Moran!" (yes, it was misspelled in original.)
by Zwackus on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 at 11:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That the Tea Party started as astroturf - with FOX, a handful of (probably paid) libertarians and a number of webpages set up by a conservative thinktank creating the necessary echo-chamber - I think is quite proven (it was in detail in the Exiled back when it happened). I don't dispute that they appeal to a larger segment of downwards mobile white people who then fill up as extras, what I am disputing is if it matters if some of the extras walk off (if all walks off, of course it matters but for that to happen at the same time they need to be organised in some sort of union).

My impression is that it is still a top-down movement with billionaires in the top. It is not a party with membership, voting etc, it is a brand. Has that changed from the early days?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 06:25:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I really think the Tea Party has a dual structure.  On the one hand, you have the organizers and the shadowy leadership - the astroturf side.  But the organizers have merely given impetus to a real outwelling of crazy enthusiasm among rank and file movement Republicans, and these people are dedicated and serious.  The organizers didn't have to sell them anything - they'd already bought the cool-aid long ago.  

There was an article I read in Salon a while ago, where a journalist went and visited a Tea Party organizing meeting.  A bunch of ordinary conservatives had gotten together their own little tea party meeting . . . but none of them had the faintest idea what to do.  The complete lack of organizing ability or experience was painfully obvious, and the meeting went nowhere.

The Tea Party isn't quite like the "Americans for Clean Coal" people, which is a pure astroturf movement.  Those really are different.

by Zwackus on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 01:03:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds about right. The Tea Party also served to blame the democrats for the woes of the nation, directing anger away from banks and the wealthy.

Thinking about what the Tea Party is, I started thinking about the candidates they ran. Sometimes they ran aggressively against the established republicans. If we see this as faction fighting the Tea Party also served as a vehicle for a faction within the republicans to gain power on the expense of other factions.

So the pick of Ryan is either to get the conservative rank and file exited (the bottom of the structure), or it is a demand from the Tea Party leadership to be represented on the ticket. Or both.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 03:53:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From my v. small direct experience of the USA I would say that the tea party is largely made up of low intelligence, low education, low information, low career achievement magical thinkers. There are huge numbers of these in the States - biblical fundamentalists, creationists, snake handlers, white supremacists, American exceptionalists.

They are xenophobic, insular, anti-science, prone to conspiracy theories and have a huge reservoir of resentment against all others - especially minorities - who they see as doing well at their expense. In one sense, they are even right in this regard. Smart blacks and Latinos are increasingly moving into better jobs which would once have been the preserve of whites - almost to the extent of post apartheid South Africa.

They have two options for explaining their failure to achieve the American Dream.

  1. Blame themselves
  2. Blame somebody else.

It's always easier to find a scapegoat, and they don't have the analytical skills to understand how the system is, in fact, rigged against them but not by who they think. They actually believe the marketing hype of Corporate America. You have to be very credulous to believe the world was created 4000 years ago... and then go and drive a car created by the same scientific methods and principles that disprove the creationist theory.

That is why Obama's remark about bitter people clinging to their guns went down so very badly - especially coming from him. HE is the reason they are so downtrodden and their hatred for him has to be seen to be believed - and it doesn't matter a damn that, objectively, he is actually trying to improve their lot.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 07:04:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And some of them not only believe he's a furriner and a secret Muslinmn traitor, but that he's literally the AntiChrist.

So 'Don't vote for the AntiChrist' pretty much sums the entirety of their thinking, such as it is.

America is really quite a tragic country.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 03:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... parochial obsessions of an Imperial Metropole that has passed its peak to take on lives of their own: scapegoating someone for the decline is easier than changing the rules that favor well-entrenched vested interests, and scapegoats follow the symbolic internal logic in the culture of the Metropole rather than any coherent external logic.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 03:27:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, that sounds about right.
by Zwackus on Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 10:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From my v. small direct experience of the USA I would say that the tea party is largely made up of low intelligence, low education, low information, low career achievement magical thinkers. There are huge numbers of these in the States - biblical fundamentalists, creationists, snake handlers, white supremacists, American exceptionalists.

One advantage of Ryan is that consentrating on economy won't expose the rift between libertarians and social conservatives. How large share of swing vote consist of people who are rich enough support republican economic policy but too sofisticated to associate with snake handlers?

by Jute on Thu Aug 16th, 2012 at 05:09:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Romney put Ryan on the ticket so he can shut him up and so he can control him (and his friends).  Romney appeals to a lot of wannabe's, business-types--they LOVE him.  LOVE him.  Ryan represents something else, that is more foreign to those well-to-do business republicans than anything the Democrats might put forward.  In Romney's cynical calculation no doubt, Ryan puts stars in the eyes of those "low education, low information" Limbaugh lovers.  But it's a film flam, and Romney will never deliver for them.  Romney will do as he pleases--he is no GWB, and Ryan is no Cheney.  

The educated, ambitious business people want nothing to do with Ryan style ultrasounds, and fetal personhoods--that stuff is so idiotic, it doesn't even register in their minds.  I'm sure a lot of people who will vote for Romney aren't even paying attention to the junk Ryan has put out, and now Romney has ensured that Ryan will never mention any of it again.

by jjellin on Thu Aug 16th, 2012 at 10:18:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Will nominating Ryan ensure that the Ron Paul supporters will vote for Romney? Paul is not only insane about fetal personhood, but about money.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2012 at 10:36:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My understanding of the young Ron Paul supporters is they like his libertarian views on drugs, so really neither the Democratic nor the Republican nominee is going to appeal to them much.   To the extent that Romney leans libertarian in a business/money/zoning sense (freeing businesses to hire undocumented immigrants for example), some of Ron Paul's people might be okay with him, but I think they probably just won't lift a finger to help, and no, I don't think Ryan helps Romney with that.    Too bad for Romney because those Ron Paul people are pretty dedicated.
by jjellin on Thu Aug 16th, 2012 at 11:03:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Paul's foreign policy, e.g, stop bombing and invading everyplace inhabited by brown people, also resonates.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Thu Aug 16th, 2012 at 12:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Romney would probably do a ROI Return on Investment analysis before deciding which people to bomb and which bombs to use. hmmmm... is Textron(a Rhode Island based arms conglomerate which makes the world's largest cluster bomb) up to date with its campaign contributions...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu Aug 16th, 2012 at 03:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by jjellin on Thu Aug 16th, 2012 at 04:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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