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You have made your opinion known before you have read it, too. Has it changed?
by Katrin on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 10:22:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I learn things, I think about them, I listen to other people.

This site is a major part of this for me. But I've come to realise that I'm in a minority in that respect.

About the comic : Most of the contributors to this thread (none of whom have read it, as far as I know) seemed pretty sure that it will worsen things for Muslims in France. Many appear to think that it is a deliberate attempt to denigrate Muslims. At least one (not naming names) is quite convinced that the authors are racist.

I have expressed my opinion that the intentions of the authors are progressive, and that previous publications by that paper on the same theme have had an overall positive effect.

The only thing I expressed on the content of the book, which I wrote before I had got past the first few pages :

I have to say that Charb is being ironic when he claims that the intent is not to ridicule Mohammed.

I have in fact changed my mind on.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 10:53:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, from reading the diary and the first 200 comments I had no idea we were talking about the Charlie Hebdo comic book, until you mentioned it in the top-level comment.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 10:56:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, ormondotvos posted the diary in reaction to this news item in last Wednesday's Salon.  It was a quick and dirty diary, he should have provided more context. It's possible he's been misunderstood, but it's his own fault.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 11:07:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ormondotvos never makes more than quick and dirty contributions.

Do you seriously want to defend this one?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 11:31:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It would have been interesting, in my view, to have a wide-ranging discussion on the ascendancy of political Islam. As I have already mentioned numerous times, I don't like the way he framed the debate, but there are interesting things to debate, and I would have been interested in his contribution. Oh well.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 11:46:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think he's interested in making a contribution in a positive sense.

One point is that it is quite untrue that there is or never has been discussion here of different aspects of political Islam, Islamism, etc., and the "West". Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, so-called "Muslim" rioting in France, the London Tube bombing, the Danish cartoons, the Toulouse shootings, are some topics that come to mind. I suppose an index of past debates (often copious) needs compiling, but I haven't got time right now.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 12:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
@afew, I resent your quick and dirty remark.

I was asking a question about feeble secularism.

I also resent your presumption of trolling.

You might want to think it over.

Align culture with our nature. Ot else!

by ormondotvos (ormond.otvosnospamgmialcon) on Sat Jan 12th, 2013 at 11:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ormondotvos:
your quick and dirty remark

If anything was "quick and dirty", it was your diary. A few provocative lines on a highly-charged topic is not the kind of contribution that gives you the moral right to judge others' contributions.

ormondotvos:

I also resent your presumption of trolling.

The diary is not only pitifully lacking in development of your ideas, your past record on ET is one of leaving provocative one-line comments and not returning for any further discussion. In the case of this diary, you weren't here either for the discussion. Concluding that you were not interested in making a positive contribution seemed evident to a number of users, not just me.

The presumption of ormondotvos trolling is also shared among a number of users here, as has been the case, as you know, in other places on the internet. So resent away.

In fact, it takes chutzpah to set off a shitstorm on a forum, then come back later and whine.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jan 13th, 2013 at 04:22:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The presumption of ormondotvos trolling is also shared among a number of users here

An unkind judgment of our user base. An opinion formed on the basis of evidence is a conclusion, not a presumption.

/PN

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jan 13th, 2013 at 08:48:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Katrin:
You have made your opinion known before you have read it, too. Has it changed?
Huh?

eurogreen

I'll buy it and review it here.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 11:11:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, and now I am asking if he has changed his opinion by reading it, or if he is still of the opinion he had when he only expected what was in the book. I wasn't aware that my simple question could be misunderstood so easily.
by Katrin on Mon Jan 7th, 2013 at 11:33:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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