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makes it more likely that a hard Brexit deal (or a no deal Brexit) would not be approved by parliament in due course.

But wouldn't that just mean that the UK would be automatically out without a deal, with the Tories able to blame Labour for the consequences of rejecting the great deal they had negotiated?

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 at 12:31:18 PM EST
Yes, that is a point, but is there really a significant difference between "No deal" and "Hard Brexit"?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 at 03:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A No deal Brexit could result in a situation where there is literally a no fly zone between the EU and UK as the "blue skies" agreement will lapse for the UK when it leaves. Michael O'Leary has warned precisely of this possibility, and says he will start pulling flights from the UK next year as airlines have to plan their schedule 6-12 months in advance. This would put huge pressure on May to come to a deal as the A50 period comes into it's last 6 months.

It will be like Dunkirk all over again - stranded British tourists and expats trying to get home while those nasty Germans, spineless French and back stabbing Irish betray Jonny English who is only exercising his God given right to travel the world...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Aug 28th, 2017 at 11:34:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
stranded British tourists

Can't they take the ferry or the train?. Which raises the question what rules govern them, and will they have to stop as well?

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Aug 28th, 2017 at 11:38:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not many rules, but customs and immigration checks can be pretty arduous especially if you are waiting in the same line as all other non-EU nationals...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Aug 28th, 2017 at 06:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In is not the oppositions job to ensure the government can implement it's agenda.  If the UK Brexits without any deal it will be either because they have not been able to negotiate one, or secure the support of Parliament for one.  Many Brexiteers regard a "no deal Brexit" as probably preferable to any deal Brussels is likely to a offer, so they will be overjoyed and take ownership of that eventuality in any case.

Anyway, it will no longer be any concern of anyone else who cops the blame for Brexit in the UK.  Brexit means Brexit, after all, and words mean what Theresa in Wonderland says they mean.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 at 03:20:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Power corrupts, a truism.
That power could cause such hubris,rank condescension, and just plain appallingly bad manners boggles the mind, on both sides of the Atlantic.
The Anglo disease in all its horrible blowback, making governments go mad within their own halls.
If someone told me May was being paid to throw sand in every gearbox imaginable, it would ring truer than any other explanation.
Likewise with the Trumpephant, demolishing American institutions like a Gleeful Reaper from within its most exalted position of power.
It's all a bit Burning Man...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 at 10:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I read the situation, the tabloids will blame Labour any road.  


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 at 04:45:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the tabloids are losing traction as a medium for anthing beyond entertainment

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 at 04:46:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the opposition is passive, yes.

If the opposition is more active they should try to pass a motion that orders the government to renegotiate areas A, B and C to achieve X, Y and Z.

The goal should be to split of enough votes to defeat the government and get a new election. Therefore the issues should be chosen to appeal to members of the coalition that can be peeled off, as well as contain popular items among the voters.

by fjallstrom on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 at 10:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It seems that Zoe Williams thinks that's exactly what is happening;-

Guardian - Zoe Williams - At last, Labour has wrested the Brexit debate from the Tories

Tory Europhiles could at any point find themselves in the ascendant again, and seek a more measured, single market-tolerant exit period for the sake of stability. But that territory now belongs to the opposition, and they will have to forswear it or defect. The scandalously long period when the internal divisions of the Conservative party could wreak havoc on the country yet force no bravery or conviction from the party's own MPs has come to an end. Labour has finally appropriated the Tories' wriggle room, and started to build on it.

The details of the UK's EU exit have yet to be even hypothetically resolved; the Labour party, plainly, has its own internal divisions, many yet to be said out loud. There is as yet no way of telling whether or not this consensus will hold, that Brexit is the overwhelming will of the people and must be performed at all costs. A decision built on unknowns and falsehoods is not one to which the label of democracy very durably sticks.

Yet the opposition has bought itself some time (as short as possible, as long as necessary), taken the territory of common sense for the transition period (which many remain Tories will envy), and written the opening bars of a progressive overture in which their divisions can be harmonised gradually, rather than having to be silenced by the cacophony of the Conservatives. The new distinction is not between hard Brexit and soft Brexit: it is between infantile Brexit and grownup Brexit.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 28th, 2017 at 10:08:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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