Merkel steps into the inflation debate

by Jerome a Paris
Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 03:46:56 AM EST

in rather pointed fashion...


Merkel attacks central banks

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, criticised the world's main central banks in surprisingly strong terms on Tuesday, suggesting that their unconventional monetary policies could fuel rather than defuse the economic crisis.

The attack on the US Federal Reserve, the Bank of England and the European Central Bank is remarkable coming from a leader who had so far scrupulously adhered to her country's tradition on never commenting on monetary policy.

"What other central banks have been doing must stop now. I am very sceptical about the extent of the Fed's actions and the way the Bank of England has carved its own little line in Europe," she told a conference in Berlin.

"Even the European Central Bank has somewhat bowed to international pressure with its purchase of covered bonds," she said. "We must return to independent and sensible monetary policies, otherwise we will be back to where we are now in 10 years' time."

Ms Merkel's decision to ignore one of the cardinal rules of German politics - an unwritten ban on commenting monetary policy out of respect from central bank independence - suggests Berlin is far more concerned about the route taken by the ECB than had hitherto transpired.

I don't see this as an attack on central banks, quite the contrary - this is a defense of the independence of the Central Banks - at least the ECB - against the massive pressure from bankers, pundits and others who have said that salvation can only come from massive monetary injection into the financial system. But it is interesting that the angle chosen to describe her words are strongly critical - under the very rules that the Germans are supposed to uphold.

edited by whataboutbob


Note that the ECB is not criticized for injecting unlimited liquidity into the banking system (something it was the first to do, as it was the first to acknowledge that banks even had a problem), but for the bond purchases, aka quantitative easing aka printing money and trading it for bonds of lesser quality. In the case of the ECB, it only agreed to take in covered bonds, ie the safest kind (as they are backed both by the resources of the issuer, usually a bank, and by assets put up as collateral), but that seems to have gone too far for the Germans already.

Ultimately, this is a debate about inflation vs deflation and which one is the biggest threat in the medium term. As people know, I tend to lean on the Germans' side here: the problem has always been inflation - it was asset inflation rather than consumer price inflation, but it was stil inflation, and it WAS caused by loose monetary policy. And it's certainly not going to be solved now by yet another round of monetary creation.

Those that say that the short term problem is recessionary deflation,  and that activity needs to be boosted, by spending, in any way, including by way of debt,  also say that quantitative easing is not creating inflation because banks are largely "sterilising" the money created by reboosting their balance sheets and not lending that much more. But either the money is used, or it's useless, sloshing around pointlessly in zombie banks' balance sheets. If, at least, States were using money raised by debt to invest in public infrastructure, it might vaguely make sense, but no, the goal seems to be to boost spending in highly indirect and uncertain ways - and otherwise avoid bank bankruptcies.

But at some point, all that money will spill over, or be grabbed by canny financial players, and that can only trigger inflation.

But expect more demonisation of the party-pooping Germans in the meantime

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Merkel, like the conservatives in the US, is wrong.  This is not a recession like other recessions, which means that inflation is NOT a priority problem.  Inflation belongs to that set of problems which Keynes dismissed with his famous quip, "in the long run, we're all dead."

At the end of the day, any sound economic analysis of the current situation recognizes that the problem needs to be solved by a fairly radical redistribution of wealth in order to both prevent deprivation as well as generate private spending, investment and economic activity within the market framework in which capitalist society is organized. Self regulating markets cannot redistribute wealth so political authorities must do it, and there are really only three tools with which to work:

  1. current redistribution:  take from the haves and give to the have-nots through progressive taxation.

  2. future redistribution: take from the future and give to the present through borrowing.

  3. savings redistribution: take from savers and give to spenders through monetary expansion.

It is very likely that there are diminishing returns to following any one of the three policy options, so it's highly probable that social welfare is optimized by using a combination of all three. Given the research by Ken Rogoff on the 18 major recessions since WWII that were brought about by financial system crises  (here:http://www.economics.harvard.edu/files/faculty/51_Aftermath.pdf; sorry I'm html challenged), the average real public debt increase by national economies three years after the crisis became manifest was was 86% of the public debt at the time the crisis became known.  In the case of the US, if it was to be average, that would require in increase in the total national debt of about $9 trillion dollars (not including temporary, which make up almost all of the $13 trillion that the Fed has extended.)  The total amount of debt increased, between monetary expansion and new US debt since the crisis began, excluding committments, most of which won't be realized (knock on wood), is about $5 trillion at most so far.  

Why is the debt and monetary expansion required? Because of the drastic contraction in private debt public debt needs to take over the spending power of private individuals and businesses -- it's  a de facto nationalization of massive parts of the economy and the implementation authority for doing it is the largely central bank  Private money and spending power has dissappeared, so government spending power, through issuance of debt and new money needs to take up the slack by commanding people to make things and service others that markets are no longer able to do.  It is unlikely that the government issuance of debt and new money can ever replace the total private spending power in existence before the crisis became manifest, so there is, therefore, little theoretical reason to expect inflation to EVER have to occur.  Inflation will only happen if monetary expansion (public or private) continues too much AFTER market mechanisms for allocating credit, goods, and services have recovered and the private economy is growing again.  

So, fuck inflation. It's not the danger right now.  Deprivation, particluarly for the most vulnerable members of advanced industrialized societies, is.  Go Bernanke and to hell with Merkel.

by santiago on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 09:59:58 PM EST
The problem is low incomes - that have not kept up with productivity via capture mechanisms (mainly via monetary and financial shenanigans, and asset inflation).

Asset inflation was the problem (although it was not seen as a problem by the wealthy, as it, of course, favors them in an extreme fashion), not the current asset deflation that all policies are attempting to fight by inflating a new monetary bubble.

If the problem is low incomes, you don't solve it by monetary means, you solve it by income and tax policies: spending on the poor (instead, States in the US, and elsewhere probably too, are cutting such services), spending on public infrastructure (and ideally not on more highways), other redistributive policies, and tax increases to pay for it.

If you want to do government spending, do government spending. But need I remind you that currently, the State is increasing spending by something just shy of one trillion, whereas the money thrown at banks is equal to 13 trillion at last count?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:31:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem WAS low incomes relative to asset prices. That particular problem was solved during 2008 when asset prices fell, leaving in its wake the current problem of massive unemployment and the ancillary problems of lack of tax revenues, private spending and private investment which leads to ... more unemployment and more deprivation.  The cure is government management of economic activities and the method is to spend ... a lot.  Tax and spend; borrow and spend; and print money and spend.  There is no inflation risk right now.

Only $4.2 Trillion has been spent so far.  $13 trillion is committed, and most of it won't ever be spent if the economy recovers. If the US economy doesn't recover, then inflation will be an even lower concern than than it is now.  

by santiago on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 03:06:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem of low income relative to productivity is not solved by the crash. Quite the contrary, actually. And I'm not convinced that there aren't more overvalued assets out there - many more - that haven't been properly written down.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 07:31:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As we are about to see with commercial real estate.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 01:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, it is solved by the crash. We are not talking about labor productivity here (low individual incomes relative to individual productivity), which can be looked at as returns on investments in human capital. That is a separate distributional issue that is not strongly linked to the current economic crisis -- there is not relationship yet hypothesized between countries suffering in the current economic recession and human capital levels in terms of education and individual compensation.  

We are talking instead about capital productivity -- a return on investment in physical capital.  And that is a problem that is entirely solved by simply lowering the costs of investing by reducing the prices of physical assets -- a crash.  

There will certainly be more assets that are written down, but that does not mean that they are still over-valued.  It just means that the market has overshot the equilibrium on the way down, as the famous international economist Rudiger Dornbusch explained in a seminal paper years ago.  It just means that the current, risk-averse market can't value future income from capital investments as highly as it should.  It is the opposite of what was happening during the last few years when the market was overvaluing the expected future income to be generated from capital investments, driving asset prices higher and influenced by too much buying power through credit in the hands of the capitalist elite.  

by santiago on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 02:22:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This makes one wonder why we have markets, if they're always valuing either too high or too low....

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$
by martingale on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 04:57:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because the job of markets is to concentrate wealth, not to value wealth accurately.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 07:14:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a good question, but what is the alternative?  Without using markets to allocate society's resources, we'd have to allocate through some other mechanism, and there is more reason to believe that other mechanisms, particularly more directly political meeans, are even worse at valuing things most of the time.
by santiago on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 09:53:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or we could wise up and take seriously Adam Smith's cautions as to the necessity of proper regulation of the markets to prevent them from being subverted by self-interested participants.  But I dream.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:15:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you're getting it.
by santiago on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 12:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Glad to see that you agree.  But to accomplish successful re-regulation it would be necessary to break the grip of the financial sector on Washington, primarily through campaign finance.  It is that of which I dream.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 01:04:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
On what basis is 'even worse' accurate? With market economics you can set your watch by the regular recessions which come around once a decade. You've just seen industrial production decimated in the US, when it could have been retooled from renewables. Critical infrastructure is falling apart, and the credit and insurance industries - including health insurance - are run more like semi legal extortion outfits than service providers.

How would central control be worse than this?

And besides - you already have central control. It's just not democratically accountable.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:33:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i know, it's like the mafia complaining about communists.

it's aready top down central control in everything but name, and to really twist it round that's what they holler we should be terrified of.

it reminds me of beck and crew railing that obama's getting ready to put anyone who doesn't wanna be a socialist in FEMA camps, when anyone with a brain cell left knows those were built by reichwing nazis to put anyone who did want socialism in.

mindfuck city, do reptiles ever rest?

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:51:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are they? It seems to me you are making highly general statements about a huge number of alternatives.

But general statements can't be analysed, so let us look at a simple example. There are 10 hungry people, and one cake. Let's see how various allocation solutions fare. These are simple ones I thought up in one minute, no doubt there are others.

a) Market solution: the price of the cake rises until only one person can afford to buy it.

b) Political favoritism solution: the president's nephew gets the cake.

c) Rationing solution: the cake is cut into 10 pieces and everyone gets 1 piece.

d) Round-robin solution: people are numbered from 1 to 10, and whoever's turn it is gets the cake.

Now all these solutions have upsides and downsides, yet I don't see how you can single out the market solution as superior. In cases a), b), d) only one person gets the cake. In case c), everyone gets a small piece, although as a result the potential of having a full cake is not realized since it has been deliberately destroyed.

If you repeat this toy problem several times, in case a) always the richest person gets the cake. In case b), it's always the nephew. In case d), everyone gets the cake 1/10 of the time. Politics only enters as a parameter in case b). Only cases c) and d) above ensure that everybody eats some cake. Case a) converges to case d) in the special case that everybody is comparably rich and the cake costs so much to buy that the person who buys it becomes relatively poor. If however the cake price is small in comparison to a person's wealth, then the same person always gets the cake for a very large number of replications.

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 08:35:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, since the entire field of economics, and much of the literature published in all of other social sciences, not to mention the various publications in mathematics, computer science, and philosophy, are research questions around the topic of whether market allocation of resources are superior, in terms of efficiency and equity, than other forms of allocation, including, but not limited to, the ones you mention, I think I stand on pretty firm ground with my "general" statement.

Are markets always good allocators of resources?  No. In fact there are almost always problems with them. But the bigger problem is that it just can't be shown that, except in very specific conditions, any other system can allocate resources as efficiently as markets -- only more equitably if some assumptions about equity are agreed upon beforehand, which is almost impossible to do in itself.  

So I'm on pretty safe intellectual ground with the general statement that, as of now, no system has been discovered that can better allocate social resources than a market system, and that's one reason why that system has caught on so well throughout the world in the last 200 years.

by santiago on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 05:33:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Argument from authority much?

Nobody (neither am I) is claiming that market systems aren't widely studied, although how you leap from study interest to (quasi?) unanimous support against alternatives is beyond me.

What I'm pointing out to you is that you're making wild and unsupported claims about the optimality of market mechanisms versus all alternatives, yet you haven't given one shred of proof, or even qualified your claim by pointing out the underlying axioms sine qua non those kinds of optimality claims are meaningless.

I've given you a toy problem that you should have been able to pick apart like a hungry dog a bone, but you respond with generalities and yet another claim that markets are superior in all except perhaps very specific conditions. When was the last time you actually proved something? Most people I know need lots of assumptions to prove just about anything, but admittedly they're not Nobel Prize material.

So I'm on pretty safe intellectual ground with the general statement that, as of now, no system has been discovered that can better allocate social resource than a market system, and that's one reason why that system has caught on so well throughout the world in the last 200 years.
Here's another chance should you choose to accept it: make that statement precise (*).

(*) No, I'm not picking on you, but I am picking on your argument.

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 09:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've never argued that markets are optimal.  Just that they are superior to any social allocation system yet encountered.   That markets are superior (not optimal) means of allocating social resources is among the most studied and challenged ideas anywhere, which means that it can't be, by definition, a "wild, unsupported" idea.  Indeed, there are few things in science, natural or social, that have anywhere near as much support as the idea that market-based systems, whether the liberal market economies of the angle world, or the social market economies of much of Europe, allocate social resources better than other systems, and it's for the simply reason that only market-type systems explicitly allow for subjective determination of need for things.  Even politics itself can be defined as a market operation (that's what the field of political economy does).

I didn't address your "toys" because I thought you were being rhetorical.  Yours is the game introduced by radical political scientist Deborah Stone (I'm a fan), but you've exaggerated and misstated the game. Her purpose was to show how images of fairness can be confused around arguments of efficiency and equity, like you have, and exploited for the purposes of power -- the surrender of individual interests to those of a group.  But to play it honestly, you need to allow the cake to be subdivided in any scenario, not just the rationing one.

The market solution, once allowing for subdivision of the cake into portions like you do with the rationing solution, can always be shown to be the most efficient because it's the only scenario that allows individuals with enough power to determine for themselves how much cake they really need relative to other things they might have.  If a person has nothing to exchange for cake or anything else, then the person won't get anything, but that's still an efficient outcome, which is the only thing I've argued.  It's not an equitable outcome, however.

The political favoritism solution is also misstated relative to the other solutions.  Once subdivision of the cake is allowed, political favoritism becomes the most general solution, and it can be shown that the market solution is a subset of the political favoritism solution.  It is not as efficient as the market solution because individuals can no longer be assumed to have enough power to determine their own needs for cake relative to other things, because constant rights to exchange can no longer be assumed - those rights are now dependent upon political contest, and a political (i.e. group) authority can shape individuals' preferences for cake, which means that the resulting allocation is necessarily less efficient than a market allocation where people have unchecked power to determine their needs relative to what they have.

c) Equal rationing:  It is neither as efficient and only by chance more equitable than a market.  It is another subset of the political favoritism solution but in this one people are assumed to have equal needs for cake.  A more equitable AND more efficient solution would be "each according to his need."  But need can only be determined subjectively, which only the market or open political contest allow for.

d) Round robin.  Again, this is only an attempt to address equity, not efficiency.  It substitutes chance for need, which means it is both less efficient and almost certainly less equitable than a market solution.

by santiago on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 11:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And this is where your train of thought derails [my emphasis]:

Once subdivision of the cake is allowed, political favoritism becomes the most general solution, and it can be shown that the market solution is a subset of the political favoritism solution.  It is not as efficient as the market solution because individuals can no longer be assumed to have enough power to determine their own needs for cake relative to other things, because constant rights to exchange can no longer be assumed - those rights are now dependent upon political contest, and a political (i.e. group) authority can shape individuals' preferences for cake, which means that the resulting allocation is necessarily less efficient than a market allocation where people have unchecked power to determine their needs relative to what they have.

Markets are social constructs. Individuals can never be assumed to have enough power to determine their own needs and preferences independent of group authority and political context (nevermind right to exchange...). Someone always has "market power," because markets are a social construct.

Economic models ignore this very basic fact about markets at the peril of talking nonsense.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 03:10:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're absolutely right, which is why I said that markets are only a subset of his "political favoritism" scenario.  However, there is the concept of "reflexitity" that allows a political authority to devise a market system that reduces (not eliminate) the bias of markets to allocate resources in ways that benefits political elites.  That is, people can agree to try to be honest with each other and develop institutions that help ensure such honesty.  Indeed markets are the outcomes of such institutions, not vice versa. Markets fail to exist when trust is sufficiently impaired, as the recent financial market problems have proven. So the fact that markets do exist in various commodities is evidence that a degree of reflexivity and honesty has already become well developed.

That's where the work of Stiglitz (hardly a pro-market economist) is important.  While showing that market-based policy frameworks are probably greatly flawed, even in efficient allocations to say nothing of equitable allocations, because of the information asymmetry problem he also shows that none of the other policy frameworks for allocating resources thus far observed in any society will be able to be more efficient than a market-based solution in general. (There are very specific exceptions, such as health care, for example.) Why? Because instead of better solving the information asymmetry problem they tend to exacerbate it by removing more sources of truth from the system rather than adding more sources of truth to it.  

Take, for instance, the scenarios above in martingale's cake distribution game:  in scenarios b,c,and d, the information asymmetry problem is worsened, not improved, so the solution MUST be less efficient, except by dumb luck.  In b, the political solution without providing for a market to determine who really needs the cake will only determine what the political authority determines the need is, through some non-exchange contest of some kind.  In c, information is also restricted by assuming that everyone needs one piece of cake.  Likewise in d, where information is restricted entirely to chance.  Only in a market solution that provides for aportioning the cake can efficiency be better ensured than any other system.

by santiago on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 04:03:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Markets fail to exist when trust is sufficiently impaired, as the recent financial market problems have proven. So the fact that markets do exist in various commodities is evidence that a degree of reflexivity and honesty has already become well developed.

Among the market participants. Many people who are part of an industrial monetary production economy are not a part of any market, under this definition. On the labour "market," for instance, individual workers cannot be considered "market actors" - their relationship to their place of employment is more akin to that of feudal serfs to their landlord than it is to a buyer or seller at an auction. Which is to say nothing of the people who are touched by the externalities of market actions.

None of these people need to trust the market actors in order for markets to form, so market actors do not need to show them honesty and reflexivity.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 04:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite true about externalities and market failures. However, that only addresses what's wrong with markets, not what's right about any other system.
Externalities are also a problem in ANY system of figuring out who gets what in society, and, because of the information asymmetry problem, a system that restricts sources of true information can almost never be better at accounting for externalities than a market-based system.

Markets are not at all perfect or optimal because there are always some stakeholders excluded.  However, markets are still able to include MORE stakeholders and provide more truthful information about the stakes than other means of determining who gets what in society, which means they're more efficient.

Regarding labor markets, I think you're being too harsh on life of serfs.  There's actually little basis for saying that life is any better today for commoners than it was then for commoners in feudal periods, except in absolute material goods (which, for many, is everything of course). As the eminent economic historians Fernand Braudel and Karl Polanyi have written about at length, serfs may have been more or less tied, on the one hand, to the land they were born to (and with immigration restrictions today, has that really changed?), but on the other hand, state-level political authorities had almost no role, least of all economic, in their lives which revolved almost entirely around communal and family-level production and distribution. State power intervened in trade, not in production, most of which was agricultural.

by santiago on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 05:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite true about externalities and market failures. However, that only addresses what's wrong with markets, not what's right about any other system.
Externalities are also a problem in ANY system of figuring out who gets what in society, and, because of the information asymmetry problem, a system that restricts sources of true information can almost never be better at accounting for externalities than a market-based system.

Bluntly put, Joe Q. Median has a vote in a parliamentary system. In a great many parts of the political economy, he has no vote under a market system, because Joe Q. Median is not a market actor. So for the majority of the population accountable democratic government is superior to market economics simply on the count that the latter disenfranchises them while the former does not.

A lot of successful regulation is about cutting the big market players down to a size where Joe Q. Median can become a genuine market player. But this requires continual political vigilance, because markets are better at forcing market actors to cease being market actors than they are at making room for new market actors.

And then of course there are the sectors where there can be no "market" because the logistics of the production won't permit it. That could be due to the returns on economics of scale being sufficiently high that any gains from market forces would be offset by the cost of maintaining sufficient numbers of separate systems to have a meaningful market. Or it could be due to the risk of cascading failures making the independence of market actors impossible. Or it could be due to the ability of large market actors to take the political system that maintains the market hostage. Or some combination.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 06:10:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All the items you mention are dangers inherent in markets and reasons that the idea of "self-regulating markets" are foolish. They are not reasons, however, for the superiority of any other system for allocating goods over markets.  The median voter system (one man, one vote) is an excellent system, although probably more susceptible to externalities than markets, for handling political, macro-level disputes over who gets what, not a system for determining how much toilet paper should be produced and who should get it. As it is though, unless I'm missing a country, the median voter has chosen a market system of some kind to implement the allocation of almost all of society's resources in every society which has organized itself politically around parliamentary elections.  That says alot about the superiority of markets as a policy implementation framework and their compatibility with democratic forms of governance.
by santiago on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a much better answer, have a 4 :)

You are still being too broad for my liking, although I expected that you would be: If you frame every question in the form of a market allocation problem, then you can certainly claim that market mechanisms are the right things to look at and their optimization is key, but the price for this generality is that your initial formulation is artificial and has inbuilt structural assumptions which can be widely off reality.

As a vivid example of this, a few years ago some economists proposed market based solutions against the (then highly publicised) email spam problem. To paraphrase and cut a long story short, in paper after paper, they proposed that provided a market could be formed, the preferences of email users and spammers would both be served well. This was of course ludicrous to all the engineers, as it not only failed to address the issue that spam is fundamentally unwanted in an absolute sense, but the implementation of such a market would face insurmountable technical complications of identitification and trust against which merely solving spam would be easy.

One anecdote does not of course make a law, but I find it quite entertaining that market formulations (and thus, market-based systems) should have relevance outside of (what I would consider) a rather narrow area of the sciences. Another recent concept which always makes me chuckle is the "stock market of ideas", but I digress.

In your responses to the cake problem, you rely on subdivision to formulate a modified market system that can represent the other approaches I outlined. It is trivial to claim from there that if one of my so called solutions is representable as a configuration in some such market (with certain unstated assumptions), then an optimal solution within this formulated market cannot be worse than mine. However, this does not actually compare the two approaches to the cake problem on equal terms.

If you allow subdivision in your alternative market formulation and wish to simulate the same outcome as (for example) rationing, then your first difficulty is to make the subdivision occur through the market mechanism. If the cake is initially whole, some player must first acquire it (whole) or some player starts off with the (whole) cake as a given. This player then must be enticed to subdivide it for selfish reasons, that is, according to their individual preference. In the market, this requires an incentive (perhaps a monetary premium) which other players must supply to obtain their piece of cake.

However, rationing needs no such premium since the subdivision is imposed, ie as a specific alternative to having a market in the first place. Equivalently, the players obtain their piece of cake without exchanging something for it, that is, the last owner simply divides the cake for zero market incentive. Needless to say, this doesn't happen unless you suppose eg altruism or some degenerate preferential function. Thus, in the normal case one can expect that the rationing configuration is simply unreachable.

You might also point out that a subsequent market can or will form off the rations, which would be subsumed in the proposed market replacement of rationing. However, this is false, for the same reason as above. Unless you can guarantee that all the players can traverse at some time, through market forces, a simultaneous configuration which is identical to the one represented by rationing, then you don't know that rationing followed by a subsequent market is truly equivalent to an initial market without rationing.

Now if you accept that the true rationing configuration is unreachable, then you have no real basis for comparing it with the (or a) market optimum. Your claim of efficiency is therefore also in trouble. The best you can do is compare with a case where players are initially poorer, having already exchanged something for their piece of cake. Alternatively, you would have to adjust the comparison by crediting everyone except the owner of the cake with an amount equal to the premium required for the subdivision, although I doubt this would technically give the right answer.

The mere existence of the market has therefore imposed a cost, when compared with a non-market solution as above. Note that I'm talking about the players only, if you wish to account for the cost of distributing rations, then you would also have to account for the cost of setting up, and continually policing, the proposed market, etc. This would quickly get complicated, which is hardly a recipe for convincing great numbers of people.

So where does the claimed superiority of markets stand?

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:04:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good, thoughtful response.  But I don't think it quite makes your argument.

Look at it this way:

Assumptions:  People have different preferences for cake relative to other things  and people have some initial endowment of other things. (These are pretty reasonable assumptions.)

Definition:  Efficiency is greater (meaning that people are better off) where people's endowments of cake and other things better match their preferences. The sum of the differences between final endowments and preferences for them is total social inefficiency.

Question: Under what conditions will rationing an equal portion of cake to each person better match their preferences than allowing people to exchange their initial endowments for portions of cake? In other words, when will total social efficiency under central rationing be less than under a system of trading things for portions of cake?

I believe the answer to that question, provided all trivial issues of equivalency are taken care of (such as by assuming zero costs, disinterested initial government distribution, etc.) is that rationing will be better only if, by sheer dumb luck, it turns out that each person's preference for cake relative to other things is the same. In such a case there are no possible gains from trade and people can be made better off ONLY by giving them more cake or other stuff.

(The mathematical proofs for this are provided in the first and second fundemental theorems of welfare economics, which of course include the very narrow assumptionis of perfect information, no externalities, etc.  But the fact that those assumptions don't occur in the real world does not mean that markets are inferior to other allocation methods, particularly on the scale of large societies.  Rather, they just provide the conditions under which it is possible to argue that non-market allocation methods might be better in specific cases.)

It can be instructive here to relax the assumption of rationing equal portions of cake.  Let's say that the agent in charge of rationing is smart enough to know what each person's preferences for cake are and that there is enough cake to fill each preference.  Then it is also possible that rationing will be more optimal than trading.  

This leads to the question: Under what conditions can a central, distributive political authority in charge of rationing be trusted to have better knowledge about the preferences for cake and other stuff than a system that allows at least some feedback of preferences from consumers?  

Looked at this way, you can certainly find cases where it is not possible to say that markets are more efficient than central rationing, but I think it would be unreasonable to use those cases to argue against my claim of the general (not specific or always) superiority (to date) of societies organized around market mechanisms for allocating things over other systems yet attempted (as opposed to merely theororized). Getting feedback is usually a necessary part of optimizing distribution, so a superior system than markets must show a better way of providing such feedback in a complex social system.

by santiago on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll directly address what I think is the key issue:
Question: Under what conditions will rationing an equal portion of cake to each person better match their preferences than allowing people to exchange their initial endowments for portions of cake? In other words, when will total social efficiency under central rationing be less than under a system of trading things for portions of cake?

I disagree with the way you phrase the question: The fundamental theorems do not actually help in comparing any two specifically given allocation systems or algorithms. In this case, the generality they claim is misleading.

Let v be an initial allocation of goods, and let's use those theorems to obtain a maximally improved allocation which I'll write as f(v). (Improvement in any sense you like, eg total social efficiency. This leads to a comparison operation which I'll write >= ), The only thing I care about is that f(v) can be obtained through a sequence of trades starting from v, and if there are several possible f(v), we'll just pick one or if you like we can refer to all of them as f(v). Thus there is a real humanly implementable algorithm to arrive at f(v) from v, and I'm not trying to be tricky.

Now as long as you can represent the outcome of an allocation algorithm as a vector v, then you know that f(v) >= v. So naively put, one can say that optimal allocations are always achievable as the result of market mechanisms, therefore there's no need to consider non-market mechanisms at all. (I think that's what your point of view is more or less.)

BUT, this is not the real question. The real question is: If you have two algorithms, which respectively achieve the allocations v1 and v2, then what can you say about v1 compared with v2? In the rationing example, v1 = the uniform cake subdivision, and v2 = f(w), where w is the allocation where one particular individual owns the whole cake.

Now the fundamental theorems tell us that f(v) >= v for all v, which is great, but irrelevant. We actually want to know does v1 >= v2 or v2 >= v1 ? (since those are the outputs of the rationing algorithm v1 = Ration(w) and of the market algorithm v2=f(w) respectively).

Now in general, it's not possible to calculate the comparison of v1 with v2. There are very few general methods that can settle this sort of question. One is to say that there is a unique optimum. In that case f(w) >= v for all v trivially, in particular f(w) >= v1. But a system with a single global equilibrium is pretty rare. Another method is to say that there is a sequence of trades w->v1, in which case we can claim f(w) = f(v1) and so v2 >= v1. But this too is far from obviously true [this is my longwinded method above].

So I consider the question v2 >= v1 as undecidable in general, and even more so if one decides to apply market dynamics to questions which arise in other fields. One can certainly formalize some sets of preferences and impose conditions on the dynamics of some players until the market formulation coincides with the question one wishes to solve, but in so doing even the weak assumptions in the fundamental theorems are likely to be violated, and certainly one has to presume that there will be many equilibria and degenerate effects.

Note that it is not even clear that f(w) >= f(v1), where f(v1) is the output of an initial rationing step v1 = Ration(w) followed by a market trading step. We simply don't know if w and v1 both belong to the domain of attraction of the exact same equilibrium, or what the actual relationship between the two target equilibria might be otherwise.

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 12:54:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Another method is to say that there is a sequence of trades w->v1, which case we can claim f(w) >= f(v1) and so v2 >= v1.
(The equality should be an inequality, since by going through v1, you are maximizing over a restricted set of trades)

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$
by martingale on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 01:55:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You are arguing, unless I'm missing something, that I can't define "better" as the minimization of preferences and actual outcomes.  That's a valid argument, to a point.  You have to accept first a basic utilitarian framework for thinking about a word like "value" in the first place.  I don't think, however, that just accepting a utitilitarian framework leads to a trivial conclusion of market superiority over other means of allocating resources in a society.  But it does lead to focusing on just a few possibly problematic parameters -- such as sharing of honest information, and power.

It is quite true to say that I can't compare a rationing outcome and an auctioning outcome unless both outcomes are optimizing over the same criteria, which is given, a priori, by what one believes matters in life in the first place.  That is why we can never say that capitalism is better than feudalism, or that either of those social systems is better than the social systems of ancient Mayans, Aztecs, or preent tribal cultures in the Amazon, for example. Different things were or are deemed important to different people.

However, different forms of capitalist social organization, as well as communist or socialist forms -- examples of what anthopologists call "modernity" -- all occur within the basic utilitarian framework of the world. That is, all "modern" means of organizing society, like both Adam Smith and Karl Marx, all agree that "better" can be reasonably defined as achieving a closer match between what people want and what they ultimately get. Outside of modernity, we can't compare rationing to markets, but inside we can by arguing around efficient and equitable solutions -- how much there is, and who gets it.

It is not at all as trivial, mathematically, as you claim, even if you accept my premise of efficiency as a definition of better, principally because there is no way to say that efficiency has more claim than equity, which means that markets, themselves, cannot achieve socially optimal outcomes, because markets have nothing to do with equity, which is a value determined as subjectively as efficiency but over different objectives.  However, we can still conclude empirically that social systems that share honest information about real wants and real resources are likely to be superior within the parameters of modern society to social systems that restrict such sharing of information.  I advance that markets, combined with democratic governance structures, are more likely to provide a socially desirable allocation of resources given conditions of modernity, than other allocation systems and governance structures.  

Are there possible exceptions or significant problems and even contradictions with markets?  Of course there are. But given the currently observable counterfactuals -- fascism, authoritarian socialism (e.g. Venezuela vs. Brazil), communism, for example (let me know what I'm missing) -- can you honestly argue that other social systems have not proven inferior to markets?

by santiago on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For certain values of "market," and for certain values of "social systems."

Certain kinds of markets are good at doing certain things, just as certain kinds of government structures are good at doing certain things. Broadly speaking, markets appear to be good at providing material goods that individually take up a small fraction of the median income, have a respectably high turnover within the lifetime of a single individual and are reasonably easy to transport from one place to another.

OTOH, markets are exceedingly poor at making infrastructure that actually works (education, electricity, trains, payment clearing systems, pensions). And markets are completely unable to allocate non-local costs (systemic risk, cascading failures) and long-term costs (environmental destruction, resource depletion, failures due to insufficient maintenance). Or at least markets do not seem to be able to allocate those costs in a way that does not threaten to destroy the social structures that enable markets to exist.

Goods with moderately high turnover but which are largely immobile and take up a large fraction of the median income (real estate, mainly) have decidedly mixed empirical results for markets compared to central planning.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 05:38:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Central planning or interventions in markets? There is a big difference between the two, and I can't think of many cases where central planning provided better housing than a market-based system of allocating resources to housing.  
by santiago on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 05:51:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A large part of the Danish rental pool is made up of government housing that is not subject to ordinary market operations. It serves fairly well to make sure that most people have a place to live that is of reasonably decent quality, is reasonably affordable and available somewhere close to transportation nodes.

That there is a private real estate market beside the government pool does not detract from the fact that the government housing is centrally planned according to criteria that have to do with social policy, city planning and similar criteria.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 06:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If tenants pay rent, either through their own earned or gifted income or provision of a government voucher or subsidy of some kind, and they have a choice of some kind in selection of units, it is, by definition, a market-based housing policy, and not centrally planned or rationed.  Additionally, just the provision of free housing for the indigent in a larger system of private market housing also makes it part of a market system. I'd be surprised if there were many examples in OECD countries (or just about anywhere today for that matter) where centrally planned housing really exist for common people.

Examples of centrally-planned, non-market housing that immediately come to mind in otherwise market-based societies are state-run prisons, some mental health institutions, military barracks, and some refugee camps.  It's centrally planned if there are no choices and exchanges involved on the part of the receiving agents.

by santiago on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 07:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Housing associations and council housing | Wiltshire Council

The council owns over 5,000 properties that are rented to tenants. We provide services to tenants including housing repairs and providing a local neighbourhood manager.

In this section of the website you can apply to join the housing register or to move between council houses, pay your rent online, have your say in tenant participation, plus other services.

We are introducing a new choice-based lettings system and also administer the council tenants' right to buy scheme.

Also see the housing advice section for information on sheltered housing, emergency accommodation and other ways we support the housing needs of the district.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 08:00:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is a highly unusual definition of "market."

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 at 06:45:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is the traditional definition of markets in the field of economics, called more generally by Amartya Sen, an exchange-entitlement economy. In a market system one's entitlements to resources is a function of what one is able to exchange for those resources -- labor, money, property, etc.  Most of the world has been organized in such a way for only the past 150 years or so, although the "Anglo" parts of the world go back a bit further.  Up until then, merchant activity, even in money/trade centers such as Genoa and Amsterdam, was a fringe activity that had little to do with how 95% of people got what they needed to live.  
by santiago on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:31:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to that definition, the East German command economy was a "market system:" People bought their stuff with Ostmark, and how much stuff of any given kind they could obtain was governed by their possession (or lack) of Ostmark in the required quantities.

In fact, if you are going by that definition of "market," any reasonably industrialised country with even a half-evolved monetary system qualifies as a "market economy." I fail to see how that is helpful to a political or economic analysis that deals with a tolerably technologically sophisticated society.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:22:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You are arguing, unless I'm missing something, that I can't define "better" as the minimization of preferences and actual outcomes.
No, I'm not (JakeS is/may be. I can see that it might be a little confusing for you to respond to both of us simultaneously.) I believe your points are properly answerable by JakeS.

My own argument above is purely mathematical, and applies with *your* definition of what is desirable. While I personally don't care what function is being minimized, I am happy to work within your framework exclusively. Thus: let's completely ignore the social dimension.

All my argument uses is that there may be several distinct equilibria in a market, which are implied by the preferences (fixed once and for all). If you begin with some allocation vector, then market dynamics will converge (under appropriate conditions...) to some equilibrium vector. I also grant you that. The identity of this equilibrium vector will depend upon the starting point. Two distinct starting points may end up in two distinct equilibria. If you do not agree, say so now.

Maybe I should answer your previous question at this point.

Question: Under what conditions will rationing an equal portion of cake to each person better match their preferences than allowing people to exchange their initial endowments for portions of cake? In other words, when will total social efficiency under central rationing be less than under a system of trading things for portions of cake?
My answer: A necessary condition is that the equal rationing allocation vector is unobtainable by people exchanging their initial endowments according to their preferences. This is not a sufficient condition however. Sufficiency fails if there is a unique equilibrium in the market. Thus it would also be necessary to have multiple equilibria for rationing to have a chance of "wining".

I don't have a more complete solution of this problem at this point, but neither do you(?) of the converse:

Question: If I give you two arbitrary starting points (initial endowment distributions), can you predict which starting point leads to the smaller total social inefficiency? Alternatively, if I give you a single starting point, can you describe all starting points which either 1) have a greater social inefficiency than the particular equilibrium vector reached by the first point, or 2) reach some equilibrium whose total social inefficiency is greater than the total social inefficiency of the particular equilibrium reached by the first point.

I believe you cannot, in any practically useful sense. For example, if I propose an actual carbon trading market for the world, exactly which initial endowments of carbon credits should be allocated to everyone in the market to reach the equilibrium point whose total social inefficiency is smallest of all the equilibria? Can you calculate it?

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 08:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you begin with some allocation vector, then market dynamics will converge (under appropriate conditions...) to some equilibrium vector.

Not on any kind of time scale that's experimentally interesting.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 at 06:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Since I'm criticizing here the intrinsic suitability of the welfare theorems for the comparison of economic allocation methods, I am not concerned with this kind of detail. That said, it's easy to define a simple market where convergence occurs in a finite number of trades, even just one. The cake problem is one.

I agree with your attacks on the validity of the underlying mathematical assumptions, and while I've used such arguments myself before, in this thread I am not. Instead, I am pointing out that the welfare theorems aren't very deep when it comes to comparing economic allocation methods, and cannot support, even under ideal mathematical conditions, the claims about the superiority of markets vs non-markets.

The only thing a market can do is improve or "polish" an allocation in some sense. This is at best a local optimum in general, not a global one. To obtain a global optimum, it is therefore necessary to study non-market mechanisms.

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 at 08:45:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True.

I guess I'm less charitable when it comes to permitting blithe assumptions that asymptotic solutions are interesting. Once burned twice careful, I guess. (a project of mine involved a relaxation time scale to the asymptotic solution that turned out to be around 19 orders of magnitude greater than the experimental time scale - a fact that failed to become apparent until we'd already spent two weeks and a bit on it...).

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:27:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Define "market." Define "efficiently."

For an extra challenge, substantiate that "markets" have "caught on so well throughout the world in the last 200 years." 'Cause a lot of what is being called "markets" sure looks like political cronyism to me. The political unit enforcing the cronyism isn't a state in the traditional sense of the term, but a decision doesn't become magically apolitical - or uncorrupt - just because it's being made in an unaccountable boardroom rather than a democratically accountable parliament.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 01:16:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Define "market." Define "efficiently."

Willeb Buiter: Useless finance, harmful finance and useful finance (April 12, 2009)

Financial markets are inefficient in any of the ways specified by James Tobin in a great 1984 paper - information arbitrage efficiency, fundamental valuation efficiency, functional efficiency or Arrow-Debreu full insurance efficiency.[1] Financial markets even often are technically inefficient. A market is technically or trading efficient if it is liquid and competitive, that is, it is possible to buy or sell large quantities with very low transaction costs, at little or no notice and without a significant impact on the market price.  We have seen many examples, from the ABS markets and the commercial paper markets to the interbank markets of massive and persistent failures of technical or trading efficiency.

Even in those financial markets that are reasonably technically efficient, like the US stock market, the foreign exchange markets and the government debt markets, Tobin saw frequent departures from efficiency in the less restricted senses of the word.  He accepted that financial markets possessed what he called `information arbitrage efficiency' that is, that they were informationally efficient in the weak and semi-strong sense. You cannot systematically make money trading on the basis of generally available public information. Clearly, however, trading profitably on the basis of insider information is possible.

He did not believe that financial markets consistently possessed `fundamental valuation efficiency': financial asset prices do not necessarily reflect the rational expectations of the future payments to which the asset gives title.  Key financial markets, including the stock market, the long-term debt market and the foreign exchange market are characterised both by excess volatility and persistent misalignments, that is, prices deviating persistently from fundamental valuations.

Tobin also contested the notion that the financial markets delivered `value for money' in the social sense. "the services of the system do not come cheap. An immense amount of activity takes place, and considerable resources are devoted to it." (Tobin [1984, p. 284]). Tobin referred to this aspect of efficiency as `functional efficiency'. Finally, the system of financial markets can be efficient in the technical, information arbitrage, fundamental valuation and functional senses without possessing what Tobin called Arrow-Debreu full insurance efficiency, that is, without supporting Pareto-efficient economy-wide outcomes.  The reason is that real world financial markets interact with labour and goods markets that are inefficient in every sense of the word.

When financial markets are inefficient, the distinction between fundamental, exogenous variables and endogenous variables disappears.  CDS prices can become quasi-autonomous drivers of the bond prices.  The tail can wag the dog.  The redistributions of wealth associated with the execution of derivatives contracts can trigger margin calls, mark-to-market revaluations of assets and liabilities, forced liquidations of illiquid asset holdings through fire-sales in dysfunctional markets, defaults and bankruptcies.  Activities in derivatives markets, including futures markets, can feed back on sport markets and real production, consumption and storage decisions.

Unbridled derivatives markets may be liquid, but the question is, to what purpose?  If, as I believe, there is no economic rationale for `naked' CDS positions (that is, CDS that do not insure an open default position in the underlying security), then liquidity of the CDS market only serves those who want to trade naked CDS.  This, in my view, only wastes real resources through (a) churning and (b) unnecessary bankruptcies.

Note that other "markets" in goods and services are almos necesarily less "efficient" than the financial markets because financial markets are more liquid, with more information, etc...

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 04:58:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Market-based social system:  from Amartya Sen, a market based system is one in which exchanges of commodities predominates.  One's ability to get what one wants and needs is a function of possessing exchange entitlements to things.  It is easy, today, to mistake this way of organizing life as part of a universal thread throughout history. But that would be wrong because economic historians have documented that as recently as 200 years ago, 95% of everything produced and consumed in the world happened without markets, without money, and with no exchanges of any kind. Before capitalism and markets became the main way societies determined who gets what, entitlements to resources were based on mostly family, religious, and military capabilities and obligations, and no money exchange or barter of any kind occurred for most economic relationships. Commerce was a fringe matter involving few people, largely social outcasts, in most societies.

Efficiency: not wasting resources.  Most of economics deals with the social efficiency gains by allowing freely negotiated exchanges of things between individual actors.  This means that although no new wealth is created when exchanges occur between individuals, the amount of already produced wealth that is usable by individuals increases dramatically -- the so-called gains from trade.  

Although you didn't ask it, equity, or fairness, is also an important element but, like wealth, it is a completely relative term, dependent upon subjective determination of needs and wants. Every economic change can be be divided into just two effects regarding how social welfare is impacted: and efficiency effect and an equity effect.  

Although it can be shown (Stiglitz has the Nobel Prize for this, as well as Arrow in another sense) that, in the real world, the assumptions of effective omnipotence and omniscience on the part of market actors doesn't exist and means that markets cannot be efficient, it has also been shown that no other system yet devised is superior to markets (Stiglitz again) and that other means of allocating resources are almost always worse, especially in large-scale social systems like nation-states, because of the inescapable information asymmetry problem -- that it is rational for people to lie to each other for personal advantage.

by santiago on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 03:01:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Efficiency: not wasting resources

Quite regardless of any other criticism that may be applied to the efficiency of markets, it must be noted that market transactions do not actually reflect the underlying resources, unless externalities are priced in. And since many externalities cannot be assigned a fair value through anything but a collective political decision, the efficiency of markets becomes inherently and inseparably entangled with political and regulatory systems.

Most of economics deals with the social efficiency gains by allowing freely negotiated exchanges of things between individual actors [my emphasis]

Thereby becoming, to a greater or lesser extent, inherently counterfactual right from the first axiom. In some cases, the error introduced by this simplification is negligible (in a well regulated market, where no non-state player has excessive market power, the state player(s) are democratically accountable and so on and so forth). In others (transnational corporations having budgets comparable to a mid-sized sovereign state, lack of effective regulation of cross-border capital flows, etc.), not so much.

To these two considerations must, of course, be added the information asymmetry issues raised by Stiglitz.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 04:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Valid points, but as I've said in my other responses to you, it's not a question of whether markets have faults -- they certainly do.  It's a question of whether markets are BETTER able to minimize the biases toward the powerful and the crooked than other means of allocating resources. And that's where the preponderance of evidence lies on the side of market-based social systems. There's a reason that the OECD capitalist countries are so powerful and have so much higher standards of living than the formerly (and currently) communist countries.  Markets reduce waste, making people wealthier and healthier, and making capitalist nations more powerful than other nations and better able to defend the collective interests of their citizens.
by santiago on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 06:03:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a question of whether markets are BETTER able to minimize the biases toward the powerful and the crooked than other means of allocating resources.

Given the current state of affairs in the USA, including the capture of the federal government by the dominant players in the existing capital market, it is a good question as to the effectiveness, if any, of attempts "...to minimize the biases toward the powerful and the crooked..."  Absent a feasible path towards a strong method to effectively regulate markets the whole argument becomes completely hypothetical, if not moot.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 01:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
santiago:
There's a reason that the OECD capitalist countries are so powerful and have so much higher standards of living than the formerly (and currently) communist countries.

You mean apart from colonial militarism and outright theft?

You're being terribly naive if you really think that markets make people rich without any other factors.

While the OECD basks in its financial superiority, most - if not all - of the countries benefit from straightforward colonial resource extraction of both materials and labour from the rest of the world.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 08:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We are not talking about labor productivity here (low individual incomes relative to individual productivity), which can be looked at as returns on investments in human capital. That is a separate distributional issue that is not strongly linked to the current economic crisis -- there is not relationship yet hypothesized between countries suffering in the current economic recession and human capital levels in terms of education and individual compensation.

When labour productivity goes up, some combination of the following must happen:

  1. The length of "the full work week" drops.

  2. Unemployment rises.

  3. Consumption rises (through private or state spending).

This must happen, because Stuff is more or less conserved in each microeconomic transaction.

  1. Is considered ideologically unacceptable.

  2. Is considered tactically unacceptable (the bread must flow and the circuses kept running).

This means that, in order for the political system to continue to function as advertised, 3) must happen.

Increased consumption can happen either through

A) Tax-financed fiscal and industrial policy (which usually ends up being redistributive),

B) Increased real median incomes, or

C) Loan-financed spending (public or private).

But,

A) Is prohibited by The WestTM's official religion.

B) Is considered ideologically unacceptable.

This leaves only C) which is precisely what lead us into this mess.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 06:05:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it should be frontpaged

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:16:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll do this and the Deutsch Bahn thing DoDo flagged from the Salon tomorrow afternoon. First item on the agenda is a post-mortem on the Danish EP elections (spoiler: The bad guys didn't win).

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 06:08:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
here's some things to consider in your diary:

You missed investment, which would be four possibilities of increased labor productivity, not three.  It is entirely possible that investment can increase in addition to or even in lieu of consumption.  

You also missed a fourth possibility on how consumption (or investment) can be increased:  D) Plunder. Through use of power, strong groups can simply take resources from other, weaker groups.  This means that it is entirely possible and even sustainable for a strong enough group of political elites (such as, say, the financial-governmental-academic-military class of the United States) to redistribute wealth from other laborers and capitalists throughout the world when needed to prevent a collapse of the social system.  

I was wrong when I said "no relationship has yet been hypothesized" between labor productivity and the current economic crisis.  There is, of course, a very solid hypothesis, called Marxism, for that.  What I meant was that a decline of labor productivity has not been advanced as a cause of this crisis.  Your argument, however, is the opposite, and it's the Marxist one.  Most schools of Marxism also predict that redistribution of resources from some capitalist countries to others (e.g. WWII) allows a recreation of the relationship between capital and labor that can conceiveably provide for an eternal capitalist system. (Something which Marx himself hadn't considered.)  Plunder by some capitalists of the wealth of others allows capitalism to continue by recreating the conditions of surplus profit in plundered areas.

What are some examples of plunder in a modern economy?  War, of course, is one -- the devaluation of capital through physical destruction of capital and labor.  Another one, however, is when a lender must transfer wealth to borrower who defaults or otherwise changes in payment arrangements (e.g. inflation). The borrowers, on net, have gained in the current crisis by not repaying banks, and strong, national borrowers such as the US, gain at the expense of foreign lenders such as the Chinese, by both not repaying investments in things like mortgage-backed securities and by paying effectively negative real interest on the only available means of insuring wealth -- government securities. Both involve massive transfers of resources from back weaker capitalist states to stronger ones.

Plunder, in this way, is not prohibited by western ideology. (I'd argue, rather, that it is central to it.)

by santiago on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 03:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For the purposes of this model, investment (in real productive assets) and consumption are the same side of the same coin. The only material difference between the two (at least the only one that matters to this model) is that investment is much more pro-cyclical than (other) consumption.

I further take as a given that actual investment in the real, productive economy cannot take place without an activist industrial policy, and that even the private sector parts of a successful industrial policy will end up being more or less redistributive from rich to poor, on account of its tendency to promote near-full employment.

But your note on plunder as a means of increasing consumption is well taken. I'll have to mull over it for a bit to see what that means for the model. But I suspect that it will end up being rolled into the Ponzi lending bullet, because it's equally prone to frequent and messy crashes (if anything, the crashes in question are even messier).

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 04:22:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem WAS low incomes relative to asset prices. That particular problem was solved during 2008 when asset prices fell

They still haven't fallen sufficiently and we're already in the grip of a debt-deflation recession...

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:25:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
The problem is low incomes - that have not kept up with productivity via capture mechanisms (mainly via monetary and financial shenanigans, and asset inflation).

You assume that only Labour is productive, when in fact Capital (ie all kinds of property, in land, knowledge, plant) is productive, and concentrated in ever fewer hands by the combination of interest-bearing leverage - ie deficit-based credit - and private property in commons.

Redistribution - or rather predistribution of wealth is IMHO necessary and can be achieved relatively painlessly by systemic fical reform, of which a key part is taxation of privilege, rather than people.

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 04:45:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it's just that distribution of income created by the combination of both has moved excessively towards capital.

Capital needs to invest in labour, once again, rather than trying to squeeze it more yet.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:18:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
it's just that distribution of income created by the combination of both has moved excessively towards capital.

I have always agreed with your insight into this.

Jerome a Paris:

Capital needs to invest in labour, once again, rather than trying to squeeze it more yet.

Here I prefer Human Capital (Labour) working with, not for Financial Capital through production or revenue sharing.

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
Capital needs to invest in labour, once again, rather than trying to squeeze it more yet.

yup, we know that, history has frequently proved it, so?

if capital has a natural tendency to crystallise at the top of the pyramid, leaving a weak solution of chump change everywhere else, what does it take to turn that around.

politics? who's using that as a platform here in europe?

the tendency for politicians is to help the capital freeze at the summit instead of moving around to benefit all, while promising chickens for all pots.

that's what gets them elected, yet they deliver less and less.

then they wonder why there's so much voter apathy!

to risk investment in a new factory is a huge risk, especially if your intellectual property gets reverse engineered and copied by workforces with no legal protections.

or you had a hot idea, got great motivation, but your financier is worried that someone will have an idea that's just a bit hotter, and/or packaged and marketed better, and his investment is toast.

this is the world they wanted, in their greed for absolute power, a chaotic world where no-one feels safe, and will desperately cling to any straw.

war makes money, and if it's getting harder to provoke conflict abroad, why then the brutal logic dictates the machine must make war on its own people.

so more uniforms, more swat teams, more uniforms, more tasers, more ID, more special forces, many more uniforms, (i must say son, you look mighty smart!) more special powers to call and hold anyone a terrorist till they have a few years to figure out why the torture didn't give them enough of the info they wanted, or realised belatedly the poor captive was just some innocent bystander caught up in the paranoid mesh.

oops, cost of doing business, moving right along...

when enough people realise just how betrayed they have been, then maybe they will catcall any politician that doesn't tell the unvarnished truth, and offer a sane way out of our problems.

meanwhile, we have this

Shattered and Shuttered - Clusterfuck Nation

For some sort of reason, those who would benefit most from socialist policies tend to vote for right wing parties.

Apparently, these disaffected poor do not really vote for parties that will help them win more rights but look for parties that will take away the rights of others.

For example, the poor are usually jealous of civil servants with guaranteed pensions and unionized workers so they will vote for the leaders who will try to cut government and dismantle unions.

this is so true in italy...

these leaders, yer blairs, barrosos, berlus, they're just a sideshow, actors in a b-movie, oo look how naughty they are, wink wink...

they snuck another cookie, ooh red-handed, more crumpet, oo flagrante delicto...

it's completely bananas, and democracy just can't run on a mis so rich in self-defeating ignorance.

a fact which totalitarians understand only too well, indeed a climate in which they sharpen their rhetorical claws, as they know their confused prey by the scent of despair, emanating from unemployment lines and tent cities, soup kitchens and shelters fpr battered wives and children.

the universe is not kind to stupidity, i should know...

but how are you going to get politicians who are truly people-centred into politics?

it's a pretty closed club, and not an aspiring saint among 'em.

i really, really wish i'm wrong about that, please tell me i am. i some at the bottom of the food chain have a clue and a heart, but the ones at the top look like madame tussauds' rejects, it's fricking macabre.

still, i do believe every piece of the old world that crumbles, makes space for something new, and these 'ere blog tools are encouraging a very cool way of brainstorming.

that straw's almost transparent from so much sweaty clutching, lol, but it has strong fibre i guess...

your bank invests in wind, so why not in better public transport too?

or sustainable farms, or better schools and playgrounds, hospitals?

i guess we should be grateful they do that, and continue with being patient.

off to plant some more peppers and watermelons.

man's gotta eat while waiting for politics to grow a brain, or should i say heart.


"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 12:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome, you keep getting hung up on these enormous numbers as though they automatically mean anything.  If the money doesn't make its way into the economy, it doesn't have any impact on inflation.  The Fed's been slashing rates for almost two years now, and prices are still down from a year ago and flat on a month-to-month basis.  And the only reason they're flat is because of the cigarette tax increases from SCHIP kicked in during the March and April periods.

I'm increasingly convinced -- as is, for the record, Paul Krugman -- that the hyperinflationist talk is largely -- but not entirely, and certainly not in Merkel's case -- fearmongering on the part of the people who made the mess to begin with, in an effort to stop governments from intervening to help people, and to drive up value to creditors.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 07:59:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Drew J Jones: I'm increasingly convinced -- as is, for the record, Paul Krugman -- that the hyperinflationist talk is largely -- but not entirely, and certainly not in Merkel's case -- fearmongering on the part of the people who made the mess to begin with, in an effort to stop governments from intervening to help people, and to drive up value to creditors.

Has that column been discussed here anywhere yet?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 10:37:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.  Here's the link.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 08:51:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We hadn't discussed it here on ET, no. Only linked to another discussion.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:24:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The $13 trillion do mean somrthing: it's the size of the financial world losses that are being hidden, or taken over, by taxpayers.

That's money spent by the rich that is going to be repaid by all rather than by those that enjoyed it.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:20:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...to recover the riches we paid for, hey...

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:50:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The term you are looking for is "confiscate."

"Expropriate" implies compensation, which is counterproductive in this case.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 07:19:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Certainly  I want to confiscate... Seems to me ex-propriate was pretty clear, but OK...

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 07:18:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Buying shitpile at market would have been "expropiation", but it would also have bankrupted the banks because the market value was too low.

So instead shitpile is being bought from them at notional values... Ugh.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:21:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But, like I mentioned above, it's not really $13 trillion.  Of the $13 trillion committed by political authorities in the US, only $4.1 trillion has actually been spent.  Looking at the Bloomberg article you linked to above, it looks unlikely that much more of that committed amount ever will be spent. Only $1.7 trillion of the $7.6 trillion committed by the Fed has been spent so far, and when you look at the line items with committments outstanding, I just don't see where they are likely to be used. The FDIC commitments will also largely go unused as there are few remaining opportunities for major bankruptcies in American banks to use up that $2 trillion dollar commitment.  Only the fiscal part of this -- the US treasury -- is likely to be used and also increased in subsequent years.  That's the tax and borrow part, not the inflationary monetary expansion part.

So monetary expansion has been, and I think will continue to be, quite modest and still probably results in a net decrease in total public and private credit and purchasing power available to capitalists -- still a deflationary situation regarding asset prices.  

I think you have your banker hat on here when you should be using your economist hat.  Balance sheet entries do not say much about true levels of real goods and services, counterparty confidence, and purchasing power in an economy.  That requires economic intuition, not accounting intuition which you appear to be relying on too closely with this diary.  It's the same mistake conservatives like Merkel are making.  

That said, I think you're alluding to valid criticism of overspending in general and that is that it probably does matter what public funds are spent on, something that most Keynesian liberals don't accept.  Spending on investments that will save energy costs and increase human and social capital through education and institutional/infrastructure development and maintenance are likely to reduce future inflation rather than add to it.  There is some truth to the conservative point that the American economy recovered without inflation after WWII largely because its risky investment in destroying the rest of planet's capital paid off in a big way -- it was a major investment with quantifiable returns, not just digging holes as Keynes suggested was sufficient.

by santiago on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 02:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is nonsense. If the 13 trillion aren't really 13 trillion, then why bother making such a commitment in the first place?

You're arguing like a gambler who puts his house on the poker table but tells everyone it's just for show, as it's practically impossible that he could lose this round.



--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:19:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's for show. It's a way of saying 'Yes, we're good for this. No crisis is so big we can't afford to handle it.'

Which means people will keep buying the IOUs. For now.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 07:17:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with this crisis are the IOUs in the first place. Too many people have issued IOUs, and can't repay them. Now the "solution" has been to issue further taxpayer IOUs to cover these bad IOUs. The lie is that these taxpayer funded IOUs are somehow fake or worthless.

Ask youself who is stupider: investors and creditors who accept worthless pretend IOUs to cover known bad IOUs, or taxpayers who believe that the IOUs their government has issued in their name are fake and will never be paid out when asked.

You can't have it both ways, either you "solve" the problem with real IOUs, or you issue fake IOUs and "solve" nothing, since everyone knows they aren't worth anything.

The point of real IOUs is that there is real risk attached to them. It doesn't do to hope that things will work out without anybody requiring payment.

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 08:22:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As you know, the betting strategy with the highest probability of winning in the end is "double or nothing".

It is, on average, a losing strategy, but if you're going to gamble...

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:22:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the expectation of gain, is like other strategies, exactly zero. What you presumably mean is that you get a (n-1)/n chance of "winning" 1, by betting n, with n being an exponential of 2 (and a 1/n chance of losing n)

So the question, as expected, is whether you win before you run out of liquidity...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 08:24:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're both right. It's true that the probability of winning 1 more than the initial amount in your pocket is 1 (ie certain), and in fact it is certain that this will occur within a finite number of bets. Moreover, by changing the monetary units, or by increasing the rate of growth of the bets, even bigger amounts can be won per bet, so the probability is maximal but the strategy is of course not unique.

However, the expected number of bets to achieve the outcome is infinite, since the strategy is nonintegrable, and while one game might(!) let you win 1 with certainty, in repeated games you will run out of money, or if you have infinite funds, you will fail to achieve any strictly positive rate of winnings in the long run (and depending on how you compute the rate of winnings, you could fail to achieve any finite negative rate of winnings either, ie the losses can't be usefully limited).

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 05:12:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
are the traditional conservatives. Those that are not are the neolibs. It's the neolibs that have set policy in recent years.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It would seem prudent to be concerned about both inflation and deflation, but is important to keep in mind what is the most pressing current problem without forgetting and leaving ourselves helpless in the face of the following problem.  I would be much happier were the USA spending $Trillions more on alternative energy investments and several times that investment less on guarantees to the banking sector.

What is needed is concerted effort to sever the hands of dying financial institutions that are currently around the neck of the entire US society before that sector drags us all into an early grave.  It is NOT a question of spending or guarantees per se, but rather a question of the long term effectiveness of that spending and those guarantees and the constraints they place on future policy.  See the second link in my comment down thread.  It is to a paper by Simon Johnson showing the consequences of such decisions.  See also the post based on Edward Harrison below.  We can say "Fuck inflation", but we had better be prepared to be well and truly fucked by inflation if we are unprepared when recovery is underway.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:18:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For sure. Inflation isn't the problem, and since the 70s - when it was linked to oil prices anyway - it never really has been.

The problem is wealth concentration. What the US has now is a ghost economy, populated entirely by chimeras, supported by a huge pile of government-backed 'Would I lie to you?'

But there's no foundation. So the real economy will remain in depression while the ghost economy resumes modest growth - for a while, until the 'Would I lie to you?' runs out.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 07:23:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The rating for Jerome's "traditional conservatives" comment was intended to be a 4.  Grrr, why can't those who make a rating edit that rating?  At least then we could clean up after ourselves.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
!? Of course you can change your rating!

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:55:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So one can!  I had somewhere gotten the opposite idea.  Thanks.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 02:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What one can't do is to revert a rating to none (no rating).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 03:16:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's always been an interesting fight in the oped pages of the WSJ between the neolibs and the traditional conservatives.

Here's a traditional conservative's reaction:


Merkel for the Fed
The German leader's welcome rebuke to central bankers.

To the Red Sox winning the World Series, we can now add another miracle for the ages: A politician demanding tighter money. We refer to German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who in a Berlin speech Tuesday rebuked the world's central bankers, notably including the U.S. Federal Reserve, for being too politically accommodating. Hallelujah, sister.

(...)

Notwithstanding Mr. Bernanke's "comfort" with his actions so far, the world is wondering when the Fed will start to remove the flood of money it has injected into the economy during the crisis. Mr. Bernanke says not to worry, as his mentor Alan Greenspan also did yesterday. But this is cold comfort given their earlier track record. The Fed's habit is to look at backward indicators, such as the cost-of-living index and the jobless rate, rather than at currency and commodity prices that can warn of asset bubbles and inflation ahead. This is precisely the mistake both men made in 2003, as the recently released Fed transcripts from that year illustrate. The warning that Mrs. Merkel -- and China and the financial markets -- is sounding is whether the Fed will have the political courage to start removing that liquidity even if the unemployment rate is high, and before it creates another mess.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 03:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL

Thanks.  It's been a long day, and I needed a good laugh.

You really can't be serious bringing the Journal in this.

Yes, those great defenders of traditional conservatism at the WSJ.

Wow.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 08:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
they've kept on publishing "deficit hawk" conservatives throughout the Bush years, which were often stingingly critical of Bush's budget practices. These, at least, have some claim to intellectual consistency, and they did stand out in the WSJ pages back then (now, of course, they are an easy source of attacks on Obama, and they will naturally claim that this year's deficits' are Obama's alone)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 01:43:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry, but no: That's utter nonsense, J.  The WSJ was not run by deficit hawks.  It's been run by batshit crazy supply-siders the entire time.  Do you not remember their "Laffer Curve" column?

Now, as someone who knows plenty of stats, you also know that this is probably the single most dishonest, laughable graph ever published in a major newspaper.  "If only the Dems would quit being a bunch of commies and cut corporate tax rates by ten points, the revenue would come pouring in.  Just like Norway!

The Journal supported all of the adventures of Chimp McFlightsuit and Pencil Dick.  It supported the tax cuts, the wars (and their privatization through mercenaries), the attempt to waste $2tn privatizing Social Security, and on and on.

If these guys aren't neolibs, I don't know who could possibly qualify anymore.

Deficit hawks?  We'd have long since collapsed if we'd followed the WSJ.  Those idiots are even more out to lunch than the last administration was.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 08:50:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I fully agree on the overall diagnosis, but I maintain that they allowed a persistent minority voice (the "traditional conservative") to express itself on a fairly regular basis - enough to say that these conservatives still existed, but obviously not enough to claim that they had any influence on Republican thought or policies.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 09:32:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In a similar fashion, Barron's would run bearish contrarian pieces by Alan Abelson while most of the rest of the weekly was roaringly bullish.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:23:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
looking at that curve more closely, what's most striking is how close to each other the US and France are on it.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 03:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I deconstructed that graph here.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 06:18:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I made a small data extractor, once upon a time. It is now located here: Data Extractor. It is manual. I.e. you have to click axis limits to set the scale, and then click the datapoints to get their coordinates.

You may find it useful if you ever want to do this kind of exercise again.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 09:06:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]


"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy
by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 03:49:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Traditional conservatives like the WSJ, the Mises Institute, Peter Schiff, et al?

Neolibs like Krugman, Stiglitz, Roubini, et al?

Yeah....

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 08:49:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
are not neolibs, but they are still mainstream economists in various ways, starting with their insufficient attention to the incomes problem.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 01:47:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Come on now.  Krugman's been writing entire books, to say nothing of his columns, on the income problem for going on twenty years.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 09:35:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
money goes to the right places and people. But most of the corrupt baffoons are still in power (namely the bankers that caused the problem)and they are getting the money, and are supposed to redistribute it, although they BELONG IN JAIL.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:36:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Central banks will face a Scylla and Charybdis flation challenge for years  An Edward Harrison guest post on Naked Capitalism

Edward Harrison sees both inflationary and deflationary forces at work over the next several years, and he concludes:

This will present policy makers with a problem as the reflation trade comes good, and the resulting policy responses will have serious implications on the medium term outlook for the economy and asset markets.

Deflation:

He sees the current crisis as a continuation of an asset bubble begun in 1997 under Greenspan.  The collapse of this bubble has resulted in deflation and, in his view, depression.  What results is 'the D process,' deleveraging, deflation and depression.  Companies go from being concerned with profits to being concerned with reducing debt.  This limits the effectiveness of monetary policy.

In sum, the psychology after a major bubble is very different than the psychology before its collapse.  The post-bubble emphasis becomes debt reduction and savings, making monetary policy ineffective, not because financial institutions are unwilling lenders but because companies and individuals are unwilling borrowers. These are forces to be reckoned with for some (time) to come.

Inflationary factors:

Edward Harrison sees two major inflationary factors: commodity prices and money supply.

The Federal Reserve and other central banks have been pumping a lot of money into the financial system in an attempt to add reserves to the system and to take on the intermediation role the wider banking system normally serves.  Nevertheless, this money is not being lent out and excess reserves are piling up at the Federal Reserve.  Last April, there were only $1.8 billion in excess reserves i.e. reserves against which loans were not being made. According to figures just released by the Fed on May 28th, this April that figure has soared to $824.4 billion, a surge of 447 times in one year. If you want to know what is wrong with the American economy, you should start here.

-Skip-

But, what happens when the economy returns to an environment in which those excess reserves start to be lent out?  Inflation.  And this is an inflation that will not be so easy to control because the Federal Reserve has embarked on a policy of `qualitative easing' by buying up non-treasury assets, transforming its balance sheet from one dominated by treasury assets to one in which Treasury assets are in the minority.  So, as the Fed has intervened and bloated its balance sheet, an increasing amount of the assets it has with which to withdraw the excess liquidity in the system is hard to sell.

So, you have a huge amount of excess reserves, hard to sell assets on the Fed's balance sheet.  Add in the fact that the Federal Reserve is going to be loathe to choke off an incipient recovery and you have the makings of inflation when recovery takes hold.

Moreover, there is a rise in commodity prices which is adding inflation to the pipeline.  Much of the recent decrease in headline inflation numbers is due to the collapse in commodity prices.  But, Copper is near a seven-month high. Oil is near a seven-month high.  And all of the agricultural and industrial commodities are taking off again.  As China ramps up its economic stimulus, the recent increases in the ISM manufacturing data in the U.S. and elsewhere point to an increasing demand for industrial commodities, and this is inflationary.

In sum, any pickup in the economy is going to be met by a host of inflationary forces.  This is one reason that bond yields have been increasing and the spread between the two-year and 10-year U.S. government bond is near a record.



As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 09:59:58 PM EST
how asset deflation actually IS deflation, whereas asset inflation was not inflation.

Hmmmmm....

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:25:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Either they're both inflationary/deflationary or neither is.  Just as many here have argued that CPI operating on rents rather than house prices was understating inflation, it should also be the case that the same now understates deflationary pressures.  If you add house prices in the states, for example, to CPI, you find that we've gone from rapid inflation to rapid deflation (greater than 6% annual, I believe).

I have mixed feelings on it.  As I'm most concerned with how prices impact the working class and the poor, I want a reliable measure of what it takes to get by, and with that in mind the rent measure makes sense to me, since owning a house is not necessary.

On the other hand, it's helpful to have a measure of what the typical family buys, and as a bit over 65% of people own their homes here, the rent figure is not really an accurate reflection of the last few years.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 07:38:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep suggesting median disposable income as a useful measure of the health of the real economy - with a footnote about single earners with single jobs.

I suspect it's somewhat negative, or at least very close to zero, at the moment.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 07:26:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You would need to go deeper on it than disposable income to get the full story.  Per Wiki, median disposable income -- this is in the US, obviously -- was about $27,640 in 2005 (last paragraph in the section).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 09:53:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting. I'd like to know how they calculate 'disposable', because $27,640pa to spare on non-essentials would be unimaginable riches for at least half the population.

I suppose there was still a middle class in 2005. The most recent numbers would be interesting too.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:36:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dug around a bit: Median asking rent in '05 was apparently a little over $600/month (Table 11).  Quick and dirty, that's about right given the disposable income level.  It's actually a little low, historically, as I think the traditional guideline on housing is one-third of after-tax income or about a quarter of before-tax income.  Before-tax income would be a bit below $44,000 at the time, so a bit below $3600/month.

That has to be taken in the context of a housing bubble, of course, in which case rents should've been abnormally low.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:52:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it just after taxes, or is it after quasi-compulsory spending like healthcare coverage, pension contributions and housing?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:32:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it would simply be after-tax income in this case, although it may include the quasi-compulsory spending that would often be deducted directly from the paycheck by the employer (401(k), health care, etc), but I'm certain it would not include housing.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:55:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but I'm certain it would not include housing.

Living under bridges and dumpster diving for your dinner, after all, are matters of discretion.


As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 01:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Where you live is a matter of discretion.

I would think that much would be clear after the Great Housing Crash.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 02:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Funny thing is that Arkansas escaped both the boom and the bust.  My property is worth more today than when I bought it in Nov. 2005.  Not that there was not nor that there is not poverty.  Far from it.  But we are still closer to the land here than in most places.  A surprising number of people still have the skills and knowledge to live off the land when things get tough.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 03:17:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of the country never became outrageously overpriced.  It was mainly the Southwest, parts of the Northeast (not Philly or Baltiless), San Francisco, and Florida.  A little bit of "froth," as Uncle Alan would say, in other areas, but nothing like Miami, Vegas or Phoenix where it was Armageddon once the money stopped flowing and people suddenly realized they were living in Miami, Vegas and Phoenix.

Prices are crashing here (finally), but it isn't really doing too much damage to the local economy.  Unemployment was at about 3.6% when the labor market peaked, and now it's up to about 4%.  Obviously having the relative stability of federal jobs, especially at a time when the government is expanding at a fast pace and with a lot more to come, helps with that, so it's not really fair to compare it with other places.

But I have a hard time imagining, based purely on the price and income numbers, that the remaining bubbletowns -- and we're basically down to Boston, New York and DC now -- will see anything like what happened to South Florida, where it was, literally, street after street of seeing every third or fourth house either on the market, as the owners tried to bail, or already foreclosed.  My parents' bought their house in 2001 a little before things took off, and it nearly quadrupled in value by the 2005 peak.  It's nearly back down to where it was when they bought it.

And that was in an area that was apparently not hit too hard compared with others.  Miami was much worse.  Prices peaked around $400k (about 10-15x income).  That's in the third-poorest of the major American cities (trailing only Detroit and New Orleans).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, I just realized that I had misread "discretionary" for "disposable" above.  My bad.

OTOH, I agree strongly that the stimulus was and remains insufficient and I have no qualms about spending much more, especially on alternative energy or on anything that will improve our national accounts balance.  My concern is that all of the money spent or pledged on the financial sector is and will be shown to be totally wasted.  The Fed has loaded up on toxic assets paid for with the cleanest US currency available.  When they need to withdraw liquidity to prevent inflation, when the economy starts heating up and commodities start increasing in price, they will be unable to sell those assets at anything like the price they paid for them and will only be able to withdraw liquidity at the rate of dimes for dollars.  That, at least, is the sense I have gotten from some of the more cautious "inflation hawks."

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 03:32:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greenspan: Just a greedy clown, gathering money and influence (power). He will say anything and its contrary in the moment to get either... (I bought his book, and contemplated his absurdities for years, best thing I can say about it, is that he connived them all in his bath, and now we are all in the bath, and it's very cold...)

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Patrice Ayme:
Greenspan: Just a greedy clown, gathering money and influence (power).

I won't have anything said against Greenspan. The man's a genius.

He must have brought forward the inevitable collapse of the system by at least ten years, and deserves a Nobel prize IMHO.

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 02:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of investments. Lots went from banks to parts of the shadow banking system. A form of corruption, truly. Meanwhile worthwile investment was left wanting in indistry and research.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:39:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought the argument for financial deregulation was that it would increase allocative efficiency...


The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:00:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But it did increase "allocative efficiency." Money was allocated to the Swiss bank accounts of prominent American oligarchs much more efficiently than under the old system.

Isn't that what "allocative efficiency" means?

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 07:22:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... a bout of extreme or even hyperinflation, as the US collapsed from reserve currency status, a period of prolonged stagnation, as the UK after WWI as it was struggling to return to pre-war gold parity, or what I have called a "Brawny Recovery" ... substantial stimulus that focuses heavily on spending that closes our structural current account deficit.

However, it is important to not fall into a lazy mechanical model of inflation and monetary policy.

Monetary policy is not just how many reserves are injected or drained from the private sector and on what terms. Banks create money, so bank regulation is also monetary policy. Open lending of reserves to commercial banks at a low, stable cash rate, combined with strict regulation of the lending activities that banks are allowed to engage in, can be a "looser" monetary policy than a policy of generating fewer reserves, but placing no genuine restraint on what banks can do in terms of creating new forms of liquidity.

In the end, Central Banks cannot restrain the creation of money under the terms that they permit, though they do, of course, have much wider powers than have been used in recent times to dictate the terms under which money is created.

And that is precisely the way to view monetary policy over the past thirty years. It is not whether it is "tighter" or "looser" monetary policy that is the principle shift from the collapse of Bretton Woods to today ... it is the shift in the channels into which money is created.

Since the 1970's, Central Banks have increasingly raised interest rates whenever there is a risk of productive activity getting strong enough to allow wage laborers to gain substantial bargaining power across the board. So with regard to the activity of the productive sector, monetary policy has been "biased to be tight whenever it matters".

By contrast, in the ongoing eliminating of restrictions on creating money to provide liquidity directly to the Finance Sector, which is to say in response to complaints from the Finance Sector that they require more liquidity ... the Finance Sector has been faced with a monetary policy that has been "biased to be loose whenever it matters".

Central Bank monetary policies have by no means just been "creating" liquidity which "happened" to flow into financial assets rather than into the income-expenditure cycle ... they have, rather, been proceeding to encourage the creation of money by commercial banks in service of inflation of financial assets, at the same time as they discourage emergence of a full employment productive sector.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 10:30:58 PM EST
I suspect Simon Johnson would go for #3, "brawney recovery"
If we continue to depend on "cheap enough" oil, that's dangerous enough in geopolitical terms.  But if we run our economy so we finance our oil imports by borrowing heavily from the outside world (not all from China; the Middle East and Japan are also big providers of net savings), we are asking for trouble.

The collapse of the dollar is not necessarily imminent, and the temporary use of deficit spending makes senes as a way to get through this deep recession.  But when exactly do we plan to wean ourselves off (a) the oil, and (b) the borrowing from abroad?  This doesn't have to be done tomorrow, but it has to be done - unless it is somewhere written that the US will stay powerful and solvent forever.

-Skip-

Just don't tell me that the financial sector will collapse if we make any moves in the right direction, e.g., cutting back on our current budget-breaking implicit subsidies to that enormous rent-seeking sector; we're on our way to doubling our debt/GDP ratio, from around 40% to near 80%, directly because of the way this sector has behaved.  Remember the excessive power of particular sectors (and all their policymaking friends) consistently hampers sensible efforts to reform any economy. If that's too vague for you, look at how and why Gorbachev failed - and all the awful consequences.


See especially the many graphs of inflation vs. growth, output decline, etc. in Simon's link.  It shows the cost of delaying needed reforms.  Chilling.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:11:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
would be the best choice. But first a carbon tax, which is what Simon Johnson tried to say after reading all my comments he did not publish, hahaha.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:42:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this is a defense of the independence of the Central Banks - at least the ECB - against the massive pressure from bankers, pundits and others who have said that salvation can only come from massive monetary injection into the financial system.

Well, right but ... is she trying to do it through the other side? Acting on money velocity?

Btw, looking at bonds and currencies charts these days it looks pretty clear that the delationistas and the pure monetarists that bandwagoned with them are loosing ground.

Vencit omnia veritas.

by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]a[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]gmail[dot]com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 03:19:18 AM EST

China's Yu Tells U.S. Not to Be Complacent About Debt

June 2 (Bloomberg) -- China's former central bank adviser Yu Yongding will meet Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner today and tell him the U.S. shouldn't be complacent about China continuing to buy Treasuries.

"I wish to tell the U.S. government: `Don't be complacent and think there isn't any alternative for China to buy your bills and bonds', Yu said in an interview yesterday. "The euro is an alternative. And there are lots of raw materials we can still buy."


Federal Reserve puzzled by US yield curve steepening

WASHINGTON, May 31 (Reuters) - The Federal Reserve is studying significant moves in the U.S. government bond market last week that could have big implications for the central bank's strategy to combat the country's recession.

But the Fed is not really sure what is driving the sharp rise in long-dated bond yields, and especially a widening gap between short and long term yields.

Do rising U.S. Treasury yields and a steepening yield curve suggest an economic recovery is more certain, meaning less need for safe haven government bonds and a healthy demand for credit? If so, there might be less need for the Fed to expand the money supply by buying more U.S. Treasuries.

Or does the steepening yield curve mean investors are worried about the deterioration in the U.S. fiscal outlook, or the potential for a collapse in the U.S. dollar as the Fed floods the world with newly minted currency as part of its quantitative easing program. This might be an argument to augment to step up asset purchases.

Another possibility is that China, the largest foreign holder of U.S. Treasury debt, has decided to refocus its portfolio by leaning more heavily on shorter-term maturities.

Inflation, or dollar devaluation, or both?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 03:08:17 PM EST
China is bluffing.  If they had another option, they already would have done it, and it makes no sense for them to wait for Geitner's reaction to their "advice" if such an option were already available.  There are limits to how many US demoninated IOUs (aka dollars) can be converted to euros, yen or anything else, and vice versa, without devaluing China's claims to foreign wealth more than just holding a US government denominated debt.  It is likely that China has already been testing those limits through standard portfolio diversification for the last few years.  

There is also China's more immediate problem that its foreign reserve growth of all kinds has slowed drastically as exports have dried up due to the recession.  It won't buy as debt of any kind, particularly long-term debt, because it doesn't have as much income from trade any more.

by santiago on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 03:43:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but who in the media will realize it? They breathlessly repeat such threats, take them seriously, and slowly the idea that the Chinese may move to the euro can get taken seriously by investors, and affect the market - even if the Chinese are not part of the movement

I agree that the Chinese are not trying to get that rebalancing started, but the effect of their speeches on the topic could lead to it anyway...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 01:49:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why the Chinese Laughed at Geithner   by Paul Craig Roberts
Federal Reserve Chairman  Ben Bernanke thinks he can hold down US long-term interest rates by purchasing mortgage bonds and US Treasuries.  Sixty years ago the Federal Reserve understood that this was an impossible feat.  After an acrimonious public dispute with the US Treasury, in    1951 the Federal Reserve forced an "Accord" on the government that eliminated the Fed's obligation to monetize Treasury debt in order to hold down long term interest rates.

President Truman and Treasury Secretary John Snyder wanted to protect World War II bond purchasers by preventing any rise in interest rates, which would mean a decline in the price of the bonds.  The Fed understood that monetizing the debt to hold down interest rates meant loss of control over the money supply.  The policy of suppressing interest rates could only work until the financial markets anticipated rising inflation and bid down the bond prices.  If the Fed responded by buying more Treasuries, the money supply and inflation would rise faster.

Since Fed Chairman Bernanke announced his plan to purchase $1 trillion in mortgage and Treasury bonds in order to help the housing market with low interest rates, interest rates have risen.  When will the Fed remember that printing money does not lower long-term interest rates?

According to Bloomberg (June 3), Bank of America strategists are recommending that investors buy Fannie Mae bonds because the rise in interest rates means the Fed will ramp up its purchases in order to prevent rising interest rates from adversely impacting the struggling housing market.  When will financial gurus remember that printing money does not lower interest rates?

Treasury Secretary Geithner is another economic incompetent.  He told China that he stood for a "strong dollar," but that China should let its currency appreciate relative to the dollar, which, of course, would mean a weaker dollar.  He simultaneously told China that their investments in US Treasury bonds were safe.

His Chinese university audience, being economically literate, laughed at Geithner.



As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 11:09:20 PM EST
During a speech at the London School of Economics in january Bernanke was saying:

Mr. Bernanke said the Fed had already done a great deal to help stimulate the economy -- like lowering its benchmark interest rate to virtually zero in December -- but that it still has "powerful tools" at its disposal.

He argued that the Fed's approach is different from the quantitative easing policy used by the Bank of Japan from 2001 to 2006 and should be described as credit easing. Even though both methods involve the expansion of the central bank's balance sheet, the Fed's focus is on reducing credit spreads that are much wider in the United States now than was the case in Japan.

In his remarks, Mr. Bernanke also sought to calm concerns that the Fed's actions will fan inflation by effectively printing money. Risks of inflation remain low in the near term, he said but added that once the credit markets begin to recover the Fed will have to unwind its lending programs.

"*To some extent, this unwinding will happen automatically," he said, and short-term assets can just be allowed to "run off." Still, the Fed might hold on to some of the longer-term assets for a while, which could slow down efforts to shrink its balance sheet.

and yesterday the Economist was claiming that "The Federal Reserve weighs plans to unwind its unconventional stimulus":

A firefigher's first rule of survival is "know your way out". The same can be said of financial firefighting. Though it has no intention of exiting soon, the Federal Reserve is planning its path out from the extraordinary measures it has taken to free credit markets and boost demand.


Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 09:42:34 AM EST
Well, of course the Fed will have to. The problem is, as BruceMcF  put it:
Ordinarily, the withdrawal of reserves as the economy picks up would be an automatic process. And the breathless concern at the discovery that withdrawal of reserves will be needed would, ordinarily, be silly, since the FOMC can buy and sell Treasury securities at a much more rapid pace than the finance can be provided to expand the expenditure side of the expenditure-income loop.

Ordinarily.

But here is where the reckless policy of Bernanke to inject reserves by lending against and buying junk financial assets raises a serious concern, which is what happens when the normal operation of monetary policy would require selling financial instruments in order to withdraw reserves from the finance sector?

...

What this means is that the US is at serious risk of not just inflation, but hyperinflation as capital inflows into the US collapse and we are forced to face our unsustainable structural current account deficit (averaging in excess of the average rate of GDP growth for over a decade).

In other words, inflation will come when the Fed realises nobody will buy back the toxic waste it has been gobbling up. But if the recession is long enought the Fed can effectively hold the shitpile to maturity.


The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:13:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, J, given that the Fed moves have pushed the dollar down against the euro and made American exports more attractive, you don't suppose there might be some politics behind this from the world's largest exporter, do you?  While she went after all the central banks, she certainly seemed to go after the Fed more.

Another point I'd make, in defense of the ECB, is that suddenly now you seem to believe that Trichet has bowed to political pressure, when for years you've portrayed him as a responsible central banker, much more so than Bernanke and King.  So why the new belief that Trichet is suddenly an idiot and should bow to political pressure from Merkel?

It strikes me as a little confused.  If Trichet does something you or Angela Merkel like, he's awesome.  If not, he must clearly be bowing to political pressure rather than simply doing his job as the evidence suggests to him he should.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:34:50 AM EST
  1. I agree that there's an angle of relative currency exchange rates in the pot

  2. Note that I flagged how this was made to look like political pressure on the ECB, when it really isn't: it's support for its independence from the pressure coming from the financial markets (rather than form politicians), which have been clamoring for the ECB to do more quantitative easing.  Buying covered bonds was the way for the ECB to look like it listened to the markets (buying bonds) while doing nothing too dangerous (covered bonds are the safest bonds in Europe other than German government bonds, basically).

  3. there's always political pressure and tug-of wars about monetary policy; what's funny is that the Serious People are usually on the side of tight policies (to squeeze workers) and fight any attempt by politicians to soften monetary policy (and in that case "independence" means being tight); now that monetary policy is used to shovel tons of cash to banks, the Serious People are fighting any attempts by Germans to, as they consistently do, push for tighter policies (so "independence" means soft, today).

In other words, "independence" means what the Serious People (ie the financial world) wants; in this case Germany is on the wrong side of the Conventional Wisdom and is thus dragged in the mud by the pundits.

But Germany is consistent, and so am I, I think.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:30:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The German Chancellor, the most powerful politician of the largest economy in the eurozone, attacked central banks and implied the need for tighter money.  How is this not, by any reasonable definition, political pressure?  While I agree that the financial players have pressured the ECB, the Fed and others to get involved in quantitative easing, that doesn't imply that Merkel is not engaging in the same from the other side.  They're not mutually exclusive.

The Bundesbank, her own national central bank, came out today saying Germany would contract 6.2% in 2009.  Yet she was making the case, implicitly, for demand-pull inflation.  Barring a sudden turnaround in lending that central bankers fail to detect for a prolonged period, I don't see the support.

And, no, I don't think you're being consistent with regard to Trichet.  Trichet can't go from The Only Sane Central Banker to Puppet of the Financial Markets based purely on the fact that you've gone from agreeing with his policies to disagreeing with them.

Finally, again, the Very Serious People are not calling for that.  You're bringing editorials from groups like the WSJ -- groups which have been the defenders of neoliberal economics for decades -- against a backdrop of every small-s serious economist we've sourced for the last several years saying the opposite, and making the argument that Freedom is Slavery.

And it is the case that the Journal's arguments should be perfectly predictable, because deflationary environments benefit creditors -- the very people the WSJ's editors are members of, and the very people the editorial board there caters to.

I'd agree with Merkel that current circumstances merit vigilance, and that we're probably approaching the point at which it's time to start drawing up plans to begin winding down these programs at the central banks, but I submit the evidence continues to point to a deflationary threat in the near-term.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 12:36:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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