European Tribune

Are we free like we want to be?

Yes   0 votes - 0 %
No   10 votes - 100 %
Other (please comment)   0 votes - 0 %
 
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Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 04:56:51 PM EST
This would be more accurate with cows.

Cause we all know how that ends.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 05:01:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Our predecessors well understood the connection between workplace democracy and political democracy. Instead we have a society that fears government but thinks anything those with wealth and power do is fine, so long as it's not done by government. You're poor? You're sick? You're homeless? It's your own damn fault! And you want government programs to help you? Well, you're just stealing from me!

Jefferson and FDR both understood the importance of economic security to democracy and liberty, although they sought that security through different means. Today, in late imperial America, their ideas are dead.

The comments in reply to a New Orleans Times Picayune article about a protest for those refused reentry to public housing illustrate these points in stark relief:

I'd give 'em 15 minuted to release the hostages. Then, either way, tear gas the building. Bring them all up on terrorism charges

Sounds like the handiwork of twits from the Common Ground, that swell group that initially couldn't distinguish the Eighth Ward from the Ninth and that refused to give aid to one of my neighbors and her grandmother becaues they were white. Maybe if they'd played the Hispanic card, they would have gotten something, but they weren't accustomed to asking for handouts in the first place.

OK the problem I see is that if your is "Public Housing" its NOT YOUR HOME!!!! It is owned by the tax payers. They should have no rights to stand on about getting back into the old ones... the only argument they should have is if they have not been relocated. Its simple really, IF YOU DON'T PAY TAXES AND YOU LIVE OFF THE GOVERNMENT AND THE TAXPAYERS, YOU DON'T GET A SAY AS TO WHERE YOU LIVE!!!!!

Hey! I'm tired of working my ass off!! I lost everything and got nothing but was glad I had the opportunity to work 70 hours a week non-stop for the first year and a half after Katrina.
After I paid enough taxes to support the lazy family across the street who never go to work but who have lots of cigarettes, beer, cable, blackberries, computers, etc, I decided not to work so hard.
NOW I want to know where to get in line for the free housing, health care, food stamps, and government bailouts for the lazy.

tell these lazy asses to get out and get a job. one said she had lived in one for 26 years. they think it is a right. no it is not a right. it is a privilege and for a short time until you get you fat ass on the welfare dole. this is one reason that new orleans has streets and sewer system like a 3rd world country.

And so we skip happily down the road to serfdom.

And the world will live as one

by Montereyan (robert at calitics dot com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 05:36:42 PM EST
The details of corporate personhood differ from legal system to legal system: the US version seems extreme to me, but it's not necessarily the only way it can be done.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 04:56:01 PM EST
The US version is so extreme because of an 1888 ruling of the Supreme Court, however it's firmly rooted in Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence.  I think that this has led to some differences between common law and legal code countries.  

However the limitation of liability to investments made is something that all the systems have in common.  And at a more basic level, there's an argument that the protection of property rights of any kind rests upon the ability of the state to coerce.  Thus, calling into question again the belief that the Market exists without coercion.

I take it from the silence in the comments that I've either throughly confused everyone, or they just don't care.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 06:03:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually that's the very point, I take it you're referring to Corporate Personhood which seems to confer exceptional rights but precious few responsibilities on corporations.

I think that's the differnece between the US and the rest of the world. Even the UK is uncomfortable, culturally, with the way the US is organised. However, globalisation has had interesting results. Initially the globals were able to hide behind US military might to impose the american legislative settlement on the 3rd world. However, now with manufacturing and profits moving away from mainland USA, the people of the US are beginning to wake up from the dream of the Matrix and wonder what they signed up for.

I rather fear it's all too late.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 09:54:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Allegory of the Cave.  Yes man has know of his own disease for quite some time now.
by Lasthorseman (Lasthorseman@comcast.net) on Sat Sep 1st, 2007 at 07:59:19 PM EST
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