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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: obligation of disclosure
( / )
It does, but there appears to be a limited pool of copycats.

Just as we saw with the rash of bombing train stations a few years ago, the pool of murder-suicide candidates dries up pretty fast. And by the time it has re-filled the novelty value has moved on to some other form of self-destruction.

- Jake

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
Had a response prepared which I lost just as I was getting ready to post. I am short of time due to wound care duties and the various drugs, 6omg/day of prednisone, immune suppressant drugs, etc. I will try to recompose that post tomorrow, as time allows.

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
Wasn't your assertion that he was continuously employed by Lufthansa and could switch to work as steward during the training? Where is your evidence for that? No chance, ARG. Lufthansa used to cover all the costs for the training years ago. They have in the meantime worsened the conditions by making their trainees pay back € 70,000. They will probably soon worsen the conditions even more. What I don't see is that they offer one (or more) trainees a substantial improvement, namely wage for the time of the training and all the rights that come along with a work contract.
by Katrin on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
You had skills your employer was interested in and could negotiate. I guess your employer doesn't have a works council to advocate your interest, and perhaps they haven't got collective bargaining? Lufthansa has all that, for employees below the manager level. A person who wants to become a pilot can either pay on their own for the training or make a contract with one of the few airlines that make contracts like this. Thousands apply every year and the airlines can pick. That's hardly a position to negotiate this contract, let alone so far-reaching points as demanding wage for the training. No, I am perfectly sure that Lubitz had exactly that training contract. In the case of his work contracts I am fairly sure that he had the standard contracts, but there negotiations of minor points may be possible.  It is still unlikely with a company of that size. Their lawyers have agreed a standard contract with the works council, and neither steward nor pilot imply things like patent rights and so. Pilots aren't employees outside the collective bargaining category, even though they are well paid.
by Katrin on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: obligation of disclosure
( / )
Though the former does carry the risk of copycats which the latter does not (which may be increased by lots of media coverage).
by gk (gk) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
And, have you even looked for the kind of specific evidence needed to support your assertion before making the assertion that this contract that you found on Lufthansa's web site was the only kind of contract they ever issued?

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
But this is again an assumption, unless you have evidence that this is the ONLY contract Lufthansa ever issues to trainees, and it seems to lead to a conclusion tendentious to your presumptions. This, absent specific evidence, is not a logical necessity. I, in the course of my careed, have had many contracts in which I negotiated patent right exemptions if the company wanted to hire me. The company had 'shop rights' (limited use of the specific designs I used to accomplish my work, but I retained general rights along with shop rights to any new work I provided them). The fact that coworkers lacked the power to to the same or were so cowed by the might and power of the company was their problem, though I was always happy to enlighten them. I always found it better to go into a meeting with a letter from another company offering me a job with better salary and that didn't involve surrender of my proprietary rights. Naturally, the company I am putting to the choice wouldn't want to advertise that they will negotiate, but they did.

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
I am not sure that I understand your question. Lubitz first had a work contract (with Lufthansa) as steward, ended that, had a trainee contract, which is not a work contract, and after the training ended he had again a work contract (with Germanwings) as pilot. During the training he was not an employee, and without a work contract.

So if by "this" you mean the conditions for the training in the link I gave: yes, that is what people have to sign when they want the training with Lufthansa. Details are probably changed every few years, but generally it is the same, especially that it is not a work contract, and no wage is paid.

by Katrin on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
I don't doubt that this is A contract that our person of interest could have had. What is your evidence that it is THE contract he had? And, if he indeed had another kind of contract geared towards Lufthansa employees seeking to advance themselves, it is THE contract they have?

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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They might regret this once the full potential for contagion from bank failures in Andorra is worked out.

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on
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In story: 28-29 March 2015

Re: Living off the Planet
( / )
Have you heard? "Smart Money" is getting out of the ski resort business across the US. Recently here in California ANOTHER major ski resort closed early (the other in FEBRUARY) because of lack of snow. Big money may deny climate change but that's not what their investments are saying.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on
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In story: Biomass utility project update

Re: Biomass utility project update
( / )
Thanks for this, Paul (that I only just got to). I'm going to have to summarize the project for our local energy transition group. There's quite a lot of wood around here, and we might be able to think about a smaller-level application of what you are doing there.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: obligation of disclosure
( / )
The existing medical checks are not disputed. And in fact they are so thorough and effective that nothing bad happened, right? Everything worked just fine, but sometimes shit happens? That's your answer?

Well... yeah, actually.

"Death by pilot" doesn't even beat "death by maintenance failure." And as causes of death go, maintenance failure on airplanes has an order of magnitude or two to go before it gets to the level of rounding error.

- Jake

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
They are completely different sorts of contract. As steward he had a work contract, as trainee he had a contract saying that Lufthansa would provide and fund the training, and laying down how he had to pay part of that back when (and if) he later worked for them. A trainee does not get a wage. He is not an employee. So clearly Lubitz had to end his work contract in order to get the trainee contract.

So if Lufthansa wants to end a training contract due to medical problems, they can theoretically offer a work contract as flight attendant instead, but I really don't see an employer do such a thing. Why should they? I could understand why they would want to stop employing the man, so why offer him a new work contract? And if they don't want to get rid of him, why end the training contract?

by Katrin on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
That doesn't sound as if the work contract could be "revived" when he took that break from the training for whatever reasons.

Why not? It would be entirely at the discretion of Lufthansa. And, again, this applies only to this steward. Yet you, in this instance, again make unwarranted assumptions and project them onto the situation. Can you see that? I do not know if having stewards become pilot trainees is a common practice with Lufthansa or not. Do you have any actual evidence that it is not? What is the basis for your assumption that it is not?

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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In story: 28-29 March 2015

Bolton, Iraq, and the NYT
( / )
Firstlook
The New York Times yesterday published an op-ed by the characteristically bellicose John R. Bolton, headlined `To Stop Iran's Bomb, Bomb Iran.' Bolton, now a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, was U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations during the George W. Bush administration.

In an unusual touch, a link added to the original online edition of Bolton's op-ed directly undermines Bolton's case for war:

...Iran will not negotiate away its nuclear program. Nor will sanctions block its building a broad and deep weapons infrastructure. The inconvenient truth is that only military action like Israel's 1981 attack on Saddam Hussein's Osirak reactor in Iraq...can accomplish what is required.
Check the link. The NYT has subsequently apologized for telling the truth and plans to fix it.
Sewell Chan, Deputy Editor of the Times op-ed section, said that the link was "mistakenly added by an editor, not the writer, during the fact-checking process." The Times said it plans to replace the link with one sending readers to a Times news article.
by gk (gk) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
But currently isn't.

Nothing ever is.

"Low-cost pilots,"

Low cost is quite relative here. And nothing hints yet that this has anthing to do with that.

"probably need protection from themselves and from their employers, "

By giving employers the right to intrude into the privacy of he employed. you don't protect them from their employers.

by IM on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
What about eyesight problems?
The co-pilot suspected of "intentionally" crashing a plane into the French Alps reportedly sought treatment for vision problems which could have affected his piloting abiltities.
by gk (gk) on
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In story: Open Thread of the Week

Re: Open Thread of the Week
( / )
The advice is more likely to come from Malthus than from the Torah. And yes, I've heard of cases where the rabbis approve of vice (i.e., contraception) in cases where the woman has had "enough" (for an appropriately high number of "enough") children. But the state supporting them makes cases like this rare.
by gk (gk) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: obligation of disclosure
( / )
 And in fact they are so thorough and effective that nothing bad happened, right?

You are demanding 100% security. Would you extend this reasoning to the problem of say terrorism?

by IM on
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In story: Open Thread of the Week

Re: Open Thread of the Week
( / )
true. But it could be argued that these countries are the exceptions.
by IM on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
Ah, I missed that. Googled a bit and found that he did that work while waiting to be accepted as a trainee. That doesn't sound as if the work contract could be "revived" when he took that break from the training for whatever reasons. What about my other points?
by Katrin on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
It was in the text of the interview with Lufthansa CEO  printed in The International Business Times, posted by Migreu: (http://www.ibtimes.com/lufthansa-press-conference-andreas-lubitz-had-interruption-pilot-training-ceo -carsten-1860350), From the English version:
Andreas Lubitz, the Germanwings co-pilot accused of deliberately crashing Flight 9525 in the French Alps Tuesday, was subject to a monthslong "interruption" while training to become a pilot, Lufthansa chief executive Carsten Spohr said in a news conference Thursday. But Spohr said both the flight commander and Lubitz had passed all required tests and were deemed fit to pilot the aircraft.

Lubitz began training to become a Lufthansa pilot in 2008 and spent time working as a flight attendant, Spohr said. The 28-year-old native of Montabaur in western Germany's Rhineland spent 11 months on a waiting list and began work as a pilot for Germanwings, a Lufthansa subsidiary, in late 2013. At some point during his training, Lubitz went on hiatus for a period of "months," Spohr said in Cologne.

"Six years ago there had been an interruption to his training. We checked his skills, his competence and he went back to training school. After that he was successful. He went through all of that with flying colors," Spohr said. "He was fit in all areas, 100 percent."

Spohr described interruptions to pilot training as a routine occurrence and declined to provide specifics on Lubitz's case. Trainees are required to give an explanation if they take a break from training, but German law prevents employers from obtaining their employees' medical history.

"The interruption lasted a few months. This is something that can easily happen in our schools. Unfortunately I cannot give you any further information," Spohr said.

Lufthansa pilots go through an extensive battery of physical and psychological testing, Spohr said. Instructors spend time with trainees to get a sense of their psychological fitness, but Lufthansa's protocol does not call for interviews with a potential pilot's friends or families. Moreover, Spohr said Lufthansa routinely checks on pilots' ability to fly, but that psychological exams are not implemented once training ends.


 

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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In story: 28-29 March 2015

Re: Living on the Planet
( / )
John Collins | Lessons from Marijuana Legalization Around the Globe | Foreign Affairs

In the blink of an eye, global debates about cannabis regulation have shifted from "whether" to "how." In 2014, Uruguay became the first nation to explicitly regulate cannabis from seed to sale. Its preferred strategy? State-regulated production, cannabis clubs, and personal growing. Meanwhile, four U.S. states and the District of Columbia have moved ahead with legal regulation, Colorado and Washington being the first, and the federal government seems unlikely to intervene. More states, possibly even California, look set to follow. Likewise, in the rest of the world, there are a number of gray-area regulatory systems, including in Belgium, the Netherlands, and Spain. All offer insights into how the United States--and other countries--might tackle the "how."

THE AMERICAN MODEL

In 2015, researchers at RAND produced an exhaustive study on cannabis legalization. The core insight was that "legalization is not simply a binary choice between making the production, sale, and possession of the drug legal on the one hand and continuing existing prohibitions on the other." The report's authors suggest that, if states do pursue legalization, a state monopoly, in which the government controls price, production methods, and quantities produced, is likely the most attractive supply model. Drug policy experts Professor Mark Kleiman and Jeremy Ziskind offer a similar analysis in their contribution to the London School of Economics Expert Group on the Economics of Drug Policy Report, writing, "The debate over how to legalise cannabis tends to assume that for-profit commercial enterprise is the default option. Legalising cannabis on the alcohol model may, however, be the second-worst option (behind only continued prohibition)."

Legalization regimes have two facets: rules for medical marijuana and rules for recreational marijuana. In the United States, states have opted for a spectrum of models to deal with medical marijuana. Some states' medical laws are considered so lenient as to constitute de facto legalization, for example in parts of California. New Jersey and New York, due to regulatory design or a lack of support from their governors, have witnessed a bumpier rollout and greater restrictions on supply and qualifying ailments. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie has made clear his lack of support for medical marijuana, and he initially stalled implementation. Meanwhile, New York State, viewed as having the strictest regulations in the country, has a long implementation process that will stretch into 2016. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has overseen continued protests, most notably from parents of sick children suffering from a range of illnesses, from brain tumors to seizure disorders, over the slow progress.

Good overview of different marijuana regulations around the world.

by Bjinse (bjinsedankert at gmail dot com) on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
This man WAS already working as a steward.

When? For which airline? First time I hear about that. Yes, I partly misread your post because of that. And I think you are mistaken.

There is no evidence that this particular man suffered ANY stigmitization due to various medical leaves, which, per Lufthansa were not unusual for any pilot in a training course.

He took a break in his training, which according to Lufthansa is not unusual, but there is no information about the reasons. We do NOT know what reasons he gave. If any media claim to know that depression or any other mental illness was the reason, they are guessing.

He had a contract as a pilot-trainee, not as a steward. He could continue the training or break it off (temporarily), but he could not change this contract into a contract as steward.

If you think that it was an avoidable mistake to re-admit him to the training, and after the training to employ him as pilot, YOU will have to argue it. It does not follow logically from what we know, as you seem to think! Even if the reason for the break was a mental illness (and we don't know that) , how do you know that it played a role for what he did now? If it still existed? What sort of illness it was?

I think you can take Eurogreen as an authority for the question if there is stigmatization: "Not someone I'd want to fly my plane".  

by Katrin on
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In story: 27 March 2015

Re: Not sure how it will play though up there...
( / )
Katrin, I clearly was talking about this particular pilot and HIS situation and condition in my post which cited both your and eurogreens posts:
Part of any equitable solution must be protection and compensation for those negatively affected. In this case there was no reason the pilot need have been laid off, especially while training. He could have continued to work as a steward, as and when able. And, as a pilot, if a medical professional were required to report him as possibly unfit to fly as a pilot, he could have been allowed to continue to work as a steward, if and as able, while continuing to receive his pilot's wage, and given free training in a non-lifecritical career offering comparable wages and advancement. The question is who pays how much of the cost. Same with those who are empowered to use deadly force on civilians.

I clearly was referring to this particular situation snf this particular pilot-steward's situation, and noted that even this was tentative as the facts of the case were not available. This man WAS already working as a steward. I did not draw any conclusions about his actual mental condition from the insufficient available evidenc. There is no evidence that this particular man suffered ANY stigmitization due to various medical leaves, which, per Lufthansa were not unusual for any pilot in a training course.

You immediately jump to the conclusion that I have said he will be stigmatized and impute that false conclusion to me. You immediately assume that it will be impossible for him not to be stigmatized, not even comprehending that I had clearly noted that this was not the case. I have long made the observation that, if one doesn't want to do something it is far better if that something is impossible and that if someone does not want to do somehting that it is far better that it be impossible to do it. That appears to be what is happening here. You appear unable to see what I have clearly said and jump to conclusions which I never made, while imputing those conclusions to me. I talk about a specific situation in which all of the relevant facts are not yet in evidence. You jump to the conclusion that they are and impute that to me. I clearly state that we do not have sufficient evidence in view to make any definitive conclusion while you conclude that the facts are clear and the conclusion would have to have been made.  Why can you not see this? Disagree with what I have said, but please try to see what I actually said instead of impution a bunch of your conclusions to me. Why can you not see this? I find that to be very bizarre - and limited to this particular exchange at this time.

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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In story: Open Thread of the Week

Re: Open Thread of the Week
( / )
My kinda Song



by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on
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Somehow hardly anyone in the Western media is mentioning what Poroshenko is saying. He told to strangle any manifestation of separatism while announcing a new special operation. After the first 72 hours of Minsk ceasefire, he reported to EC that there was no improvement whatsover in the East.

Poroshenko increased the army to 250000, said that it is among the five strongest in Europe. The US House of Representatives voted to send weapons to Ukraine. Tank transporatation is spotted in Austria, and the Baltic states are enjoying new NATO tanks, airplanes.

Over and above, the PM Yatsenyuk said: "Our goal is to regain control of Donetsk and Lugansk."
(Or more direct translation from Russian: We will strive by all means to restore peace and reestablish control of Donetsk and Lugansk regions.)

Go figure who would be the more aggressive pilot.

The news around Ukraine are pretty rich. Poroshenko fired an ally governor (with own private army). The son of Yahukovich drawned in the Baikal lake, and Yanukovich himself reported to be in comma.

And last but not least, there is an open discussion of restructuring Ukraine's $3bln debt to Russia. On top of that, China ordered 600,000 ton of Ukrainian corn, and their CITI Construction loans $15bln to Ukraine for building affordable housing.

by das monde on
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In story: 28-29 March 2015

Re: Living off the Planet
( / )
Rip-rap and Perrier then. The Florida gov is citing beach renourishment and flood control as sufficient to battle nonexistent climate change.
by Andhakari on
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In story: 28-29 March 2015

Re: Living off the Planet
( / )
Arghhhh!!

Bulgaria is so utterly corrupt, it can't even build a dam without it using sub-standard concrete which renders it unsafe. I know areas which are absolutely perfect for hydro-electric power where the locals refuse to allow it because they doubt the ability of the authorities to build anything that will be safe.

God alone knows how a nuclear power plant will be safe unless every part is inspected before installation. And if Finland can't do it, Bulgaria won't even try

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on
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News and Views

 28-29 March 2015

by DoDo - Mar 27, 40 comments

Your take on today's news media

 27 March 2015

by In Wales - Mar 26, 112 comments

Your take on today's news media

 Open Thread of the Week

by afew - Mar 23, 58 comments

23-29 March

 Open Thread of the Week

by afew - Mar 16, 111 comments

16-22 March

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