Welcome to the new version of European Tribune. It's just a new layout, so everything should work as before - please report bugs here.

Recent Comments:

In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
As surrogate "socialism", Natzism was surely targeting unsophisticated minds.

But within an old-fashioned paradigm, I do not see a significant scale of the implied crossover, or even interchangability of authority perceptions of those two parties. And I still do not find any data to think otherwise.

In action, the Nazis were no less anti-Communist than anti-semitic, right from their Freikorps roots all the way to the Reightstag fire and the quick ban of KDP by Hitler. Also, Judeo-Bolshevism was a key element of his anti-semitic propaganda. It shouldn't be a surprise if all the banned commies predominantly went to jail, labour camps or exile. Even if they had wanted, Hitler did not need their "thug alliance".

by das monde on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
Is there any way to import a Google Maps Classic map to Bing? I have a lot of maps stranded in Google Maps Classic that would be impossible to recreate in Google Maps "New Coke", given how bad the new Google Maps is for doing detail work.


by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: Open Thread 27 April-3 May
( / )
It does depend on what they are aiming for. Its already too late for any single seat, preferential voting system to quash the SNP, and a single seat, preferential voting system would tend to favor the Lib-Dems. But it would disfavor UKIP, and so if UKIP was seen as the most disruptive threat, there might be an opening.

Second preference is, of course, simpler than full preference voting, so might make it easier for TPTB to imagine that they understand all of the implications well enough to support that one.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: Open Thread 27 April-3 May
( / )
... on a majority vote of MP's elected under the previous set of rules they could get away with.


by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: Open Thread 27 April-3 May
( / )
As long as its possible for one of the two to form a minority government on the basis of a confidence and supply agreement with some collection of 3rd and minor parties, it seems like they'd prefer that to a grand coalition ... since a grand coalition would means that the SNP are the leaders of an opposition covering such a wide spectrum it offers something for everybody, and likely imply further erosion of vote for Tories+Labour when it breaks apart and the country goes back to the polls.

And pollies being pollies, they always imagine they'll do something to benefit themselves while sitting in a Ministerial office, where a minority government offers more Ministerial offices for the party that forms it than a Grand Coalition.


by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: 2-3 May 2015

Who is this guy?
( / )

Blows the whistle nice and clear, guten Arbeit mein Freund!

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
Yes, but as the tide turned, plenty of Communist street brawlers became fascist/nazi thugs, in Italy and Germany respectively. The German Communist Party had about 350 000 members when Hitler took power. I'm pretty sure they didn't all die in camps.

And it's important not to over-estimate the level of political sophistication of the individuals in question.

by eurogreen on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: 2-3 May 2015

"Baltimore" protests in Tel-Aviv
( / )
972mag
A protest by Israelis of Ethiopian descent against discriminatory police brutality was met with police violence for the second time in as many days, this time in central Tel Aviv.

Police used stun grenades, sponge-tipped bullets, riot officers and mounted officers to disperse several thousand protesters who arriving in Rabin Square some five hours after the demonstration began elsewhere in the city.

There were dozens of injuries reported by protesters and police. It was unclear how many were arrested.

The protest followed a similar demonstration in Jerusalem Saturday night, which was a response to video of Israeli police beating an Israeli soldier of Ethiopian descent.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: 2-3 May 2015

Icelandic Pirates
( / )
The Grapevine
According to a new Gallup poll, the Pirate Party has the highest level of support of any party in parliament.

The poll, which was released May 1, shows the party is now at 30.1%, almost as high as the two parties of the ruling coalition combined. The Pirates have been steadily rising in support since November 30, 2014, when they were at 8.1%, polling lower than any other party in parliament. Their support has been gathering since then at an accelerating pace, nearly doubling from 15.2% on February 28 of this year.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
Next stop, Kronstadt
by melvin on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
As the ambassador is male, should it be blond or blonde?

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
That only shows that the bolsheviks were facing original problems with overturning some authoritarian-repressive order(s) and establishig their own order.

As for the Ribentroff-Molotov, it is not particularly instructive to bring in the developed international realpolitik of that time. What about Chamberlain then? Mixing up tactical illusions with "core alignments" is nothing but revisionism in hindsight.

by das monde on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
eurogreen:
and would never vote for lower tax rates for the rich.

The Le Pen family is quite wealthy, thanks to several extreme-right donors who bequeathed a large part of their fortune to Le Pen père (in this 1990 LA Times article, JM.Le Pen was still in his Reaganesque, "lower the taxes on business" neo-lib phase, far from the tax-and-spend of today's FN...)

by Bernard on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
In the 1930's and 40's, Stalin, not Marx, was molding the Communists parties throughout Europe (as did Lenin in the 1920's). Trotskytes, along with the "social traitors" and anarchists were Stalin's real enemies, as seen during the Spanish civil war. Then, in 1939.
by Bernard on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
I haven't seen any data whatsoever for the 30-40s. Did Marx give any psychological references how to do authoritarianism?
by das monde on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
"The Liberal Fascism" of J. Goldberg has its influence after a few years, evidently. I see differences more interesting than lazy communalities, though. Militarism was a defining necessity for the revolutionary bolshevicks - but apart from Stalin, they apparently knew little about how authoritarian control works between humans. For the fascists, the conservatively tested authoritarian respect was the not-so-novel driver.

By the way, the following bit from a Russian commentator is at least amusing (in the historical and today's contexts):

Russian power is authoritative rather than authoritarian;  therefore, public opinion matters in Russia, in contrast to the "traditional democracies".
by das monde on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
I haven't read any serious historical analysis of the crossover, but the anecdotal evidence is there. There are two crucial determinants : you start with an authoritarian mindset (often rationalised as democratic centralism and the necessity for party discipline), and you add the fundamental doctrine that the end justifies the means. So anything the party wants you to do is OK.

Once your activist is conditioned with this mindset, then crossing over to fascism is easy -- there's just the detail that the end is different.

by eurogreen on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
In story: Open Thread 27 April-3 May

Re: I hardly think I engaged in troll-baiting.
( / )
Ah yea, but when you remember that they are both systems of militaristic authoritarianism which overly rewards obedient psychopaths, then the crossover becomes clear

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]
... it occurs to me that there is an argument for economic determinism, with respect to the FN's economic policy.
(Bear with me. My thesis is that the FN's economic program is an irrelevance, and that their apparent 180 degree pivot on this issue illustrates that their core issues are elsewhere, and unchanged.)

In Jean-Marie's day, a large part (perhaps the majority) of the FN's funding came from rich nutters. He made a speciality of cultivating them and getting himself -- personally -- written into their wills, etc. (this is how he got his own mansion).

Jean-Marie's own economic thinking probably never went any further than his mentor, Poujade, and he always avoided the question in public debate. It follows that the FN's economic policies were written with the donors in mind.

Now, things are different. The FN is funded by the public purse, in function of their electoral results. With the old policies, they could never go higher than J-M's 20% in the presidential election, an agglomeration of the disgruntled xenophobes and of the sociological communist vote, orphaned and up for grabs after the fall of the Soviet Union.

The abandonment by the PS of any effective left-wing economic policies opened up a historic opportunity to address a new orphaned electorate, one which was at least semi-literate economically, and would never vote for lower tax rates for the rich. Do the FN leadership themselves actually believe in the economic policy they have written? It doesn't even matter. They have drawn in large numbers of betrayed left-wing voters; and a considerable boost in public funding with it. This is not a minor detail.

by eurogreen on
[ Read Story | Read Comment | Parent ]

News and Views

 2-3 May 2015

by DoDo - May 1, 39 comments

Your take on today's news media

 1 May 2015

by In Wales - Apr 30, 52 comments

Your take on today's news media

 Open Thread 27 April-3 May

by afew - Apr 27, 140 comments

This Week

 Open Thread 20-26 April

by afew - Apr 20, 15 comments

This week

Occasional Series
Click for full list


Top Diaries