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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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That's a different issue though. Israel ties residency rights to Judaism. The Krone claims the equivalent was true in Germany and Norway, which is nonsense, of course. Apparently the readers of that quality paper find this credible, and that is depressing.
Hunderte Moslems konvertieren zum Christentum - In Berliner Kirche - Welt - krone.at
Der Grund, obwohl nicht offen ausgesprochen, ist klar: Gläubige Christen haben bei den Behörden bessere Chancen, als Flüchtlinge anerkannt zu werden. Fanatische Moslems müssen warten.

They have never heard of humanitarian law, obviously. Recognition as refugee depends on whether people are persecuted in their own countries. The reason of this persecution may well be their religious affiliation, but that is the only role religion plays here. A conversion to increase the chance of getting asylum might make sense for citizens of countries that punish leaving Islam (officially or socially), but then, so would openly embrace atheism.  

And that's the crowd that knows for sure what a threat to western civilisation (if only) these "swarms" of refugees are.

Another amusing detail is that the Krone tells their readers that baptism constituted a change of name. Mohammed enters the church, is baptized, and leaves as Martin, they "report". What?!

by Katrin on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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It won't happen in Israel. The government has refused requests by "infiltrators" (Hebrew for asylum seekers) to convert to Judaism.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on
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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on
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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on
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In story: 5 - 11 September 2015

Living On the Planet
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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on
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In story: 5 - 11 September 2015

Living Off the Planet
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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on
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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on
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In story: 5 - 11 September 2015

Economy and Finance
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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on
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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on
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Scandal of Europe's 11m empty homes | Society | The Guardian

He said Europe's 11m empty homes might not be in the right places "but there is enough [vacant housing] to meet the problem of homelessness". There are 4.1 million homeless across Europe, according to the European Union. Guardian

Freek Spinnewijn, director of FEANTSA, an umbrella organisation of homelessness bodies across Europe, said it was a scandal that so many homes have been allowed to lie empty. "You would only need half of them to end homelessness," he said.

That leaves some flats for refugees then.

by Katrin on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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Trying to break the Postillon's monopoly on this sort of stuff, I see.
by Katrin on
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I find that the international media gives rather incomplete reports of the "last station Bicske" dirty trick, so they don't get the level of the refugees' distrust.

Another small bit on this: at Keleti, the refugees boarding the buses wouldn't accept anything from police, so instead it was a group of punks who gave them water. In the previous days, the punks got the refugees' special attention, the children were especially amazed.



by DoDo on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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Half a year ago, Orbán began his anti-immigrant campaign with focus on the West European xenophobe slogans about the job market threat and different culture of would-be immigrants. Now his propaganda had to face the obvious that the refugees don't want to settle here, just want to pass through, hence he told (when rejecting the West Europeans' similarly hypocritical quota call) "not one of them want to stay here" and "it's Germany's problem". But, again, I wonder how many of Orbán's faithful supporters realise the glaring contradiction with the earlier rhetoric.

by DoDo on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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But old enough for his chances at professional football to be zero.

How would you know that? Did he say what level of training he had earlier?

by DoDo on
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In the night, it became clear that Orbán, Faymann and Merkel reached a tripartite agreement.

About 4,500 refugees were taken to the border in 104 buses. Just in time as the autumn rain started during the night.



Austria transported the refugees further on buses and trains.

4,500 is a lot, but for scale: in spite of the border fence, Hungarian police detained over 2,000 'illegal' immigrants yesterday, while in Greece, daily new arrivals are now around 4,000. (The 800,000 annual total number for Germany would mean about 100,000 a month from now on, that's 3,300 a day.)

The refugees marching along the highway were the most distrustful of the bus transport offer: fearing another trick to take them to the Bicske camp, they first boarded only a single bus and waited until it actually arrived on the border, and insisted that a journalist or NGO helper sit on every bus. (The photo below from Instagram shows Index.hu reporter Balázs Pandi in the middle, on board the first bus.)

I find that the international media gives rather incomplete reports of the "last station Bicske" dirty trick, so they don't get the level of the refugees' distrust.

I think one of the many mistakes of the government was to ignore that most of the Syrians are educated people: the police measures and dirty tricks assumed a wild rabble who could only rage against their fate. But these were people who self-organised and informed themselves and each other and created strategy, which proved effective in derailing each government plan even if it was far from the level of professional PR.

by DoDo on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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Maybe there's hope for Christianity in Germany yet. The muslims are converting.
Er kam als Mohammed, er ging als Martin: So wie Martin Ali Zonoobi, ein Flüchtling aus dem Iran, konvertieren in der Evangelisch- Lutherischen Vereinigungskirche in Berlin immer mehr muslimische Flüchtlinge zum Christentum. Vorwürfe, sie wollten damit nur ihre Chancen auf Asyl verbessern, weisen sie entrüstet zurück. Und auch Pastor Gottfried Martens bestreitet das: "Das sind maximal zehn Prozent, die danach nicht mehr zu mir in die Kirche kommen."

[...]

Während den christlichen Kirchen die einheimischen Gläubigen davonlaufen, kommt Pastor Martens in Berlin mit der "Arbeit" kaum nach. Waren es vor zwei Jahren insgesamt 150 Moslems, die evangelisch werden wollten, sind es in den letzten Wochen bereits 600, die den Halbmond mit dem Kreuz tauschen wollen. Auch die lutheranische Kirche in Hannover und die im Rheinland melden ähnliche Zahlen. Martens: "Ich habe weitere 80 Gläubige, die auf der Stelle zum Christentum übertreten wollen."

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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In Italy they're called 'buonisti', do-gooders.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on
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In story: The Global Savings Glut that will not die

Re: The Global Savings Glut that will not die
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The Fed's alleged inflation target is 3%, though they are chronically unable to even come close since 2008. And, arguably, the most serious threat to the world economy is deflation. If the USA experienced even 4% wage push inflation for two years that would not likely exceed the difference between the alleged 3% Fed goal and the actuality of the annual inflation rates since 2008. 4% inflation for five years would start to whittle down the debt/GDP ratio about which conservatives obsess. It could also pull the world back from the threat of a debt-deflation death spiral. Having the USA again be an engine of world economic growth would be a good thing!

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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In story: The Global Savings Glut that will not die

Re: The Global Savings Glut that will not die
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Yes, there would be a supply-shock round of inflation, but except for the private interest of those with massive amounts of inherited wealth denominated in US dollar terms, tight labor markets offset most of common negative impacts of a supply-shock round of inflation.

While the US economy is far more open than it once was, it is still under 1/5 of GDP imported, and substantially less than that imported from China and any nations likely to be dragged along with the Chinese action.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on
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They have played the ball neatly into Austria's court then.
by Katrin on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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Victor Orban Fascist Fool.  He looks really good strutting in front of his mirror.  Then reality strikes and it's chaos.  Mr. tough guy on TV is revealed as having no clue what to do that will work. Even Reuters is mocking him.
by Rolfyboy6 (rolmsted@hawaii.rr.com) on
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epochepoque:
Unfortunately, the people/governments didn't understand the logic of expansionary fiscal policies last time around and they're not gonna get it now.

I am sure that the governments have already understood it. Or at least they will get it very quickly if the people apply some gentle pressure to toes, or less gentle pressure by pitchfork... But the people must get it.

epochepoque:

You could rightly argue it's not that much money. But if it isn't then what's the stimulus?

Indeed, it is not that much money that reasonable people need to get nervous. And the stimulus is in showing how it works, and demanding that the principle is applied to other groups of the population too. We are unable to enforce that without a humanitarian crisis, because the dogma says that this way hyperinflation comes. Now there is no alternative, the refugees need refuge, period. They are in Europe, and it doesn't matter if we like that or not. There must be some provisions for them, and inadequate or not, they will cost money, but will not cause hyper-inflation.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that the strategy I have in mind cannot fail. Your misgivings make sense. What you don't seem to see is that the alternative is so dystopian that for once we have a majority on our side: if you don't want to give refuge to these people, you must step up the mass murder (for that is the word for what the EU does in the Mediterranean). You must have a watertight police state controlling every movement, and not only movement across borders, really every movement. By doing that you would have given in to the fearmongering narratives of the far right, and they will then demand (and get) more. This is rejected by a far greater share of the population than everything else we had to say. In the case of Greece we had to argue against the dogma of 35 years, but now we are arguing in favour of existing humanitarian law, remember.

The humanitarian framework for refugees was created for European refugees, and there were far more refugees then than today. I wonder how many families in Europe there are without a history of seeking refuge somewhere in the last one or two generations? Empathy is very strong.  

I see a chance of leftist proposals being heard and being taken seriously, a chance that hasn't been here for a long time. Because we happen to have valid answers, and the right wing, not. :)

by Katrin on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
( / )
Granted, he was still a teenager. But old enough for his chances at professional football to be zero. I imagine he had to grow up more quickly than others of  the same age. But he was still too innocent or ignorant about that part of reality.

by epochepoque on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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a young migrant from sub-Saharan Africa said he wanted to go to Europe to be a professional footballer. Really?

I don't get why you find that strange.

by DoDo on
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The offer is exclusively for those refugees who camp out at Budapest Keleti station or who are marching along the highway (even official police estimates range from 800 to 2,500) or along the railway (about 300; all the others on the train stranded at Bicske gave up and were taken to the refugee camp), not for refugees currently held in camps or arriving in the future. The decision was explicitly justified with the need to restore normal transport (there are traffic jams on the highway and trains pass the refugees on one track at 15 km/h, and the subway stations at Keleti were closed off to prevent any more hooligan–refugee clashes). The government also said that now everything depends on Austria: they only promise the refugees to take them to the border, not across it.

According to reporters on the ground, the refugees are incredulous and distrustful – no wonder after the lies and dirty tricks of the previous days.

This decision was taken by an official "emergency committee". For a week, the government didn't feel the need of one. On the day police executed its fateful U-turn at Keleti station, the national police chief was at some government seminar and had no clue. As for the interior minister, he was on holiday and didn't feel the need to interrupt it. Orbán himself was in Brussels on the day of the "end station Bicske" dirty trick. In other words, The Great Hungarian Refugee Crisis is a glaring example of near-total mismanagement – but I doubt many Fidesz voters will recognise that.

by DoDo on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
( / )
I'd have thought one learns some kind of realism by living months or years as a refugee. In an interview some time ago, a young migrant from sub-Saharan Africa said he wanted to go to Europe to be a professional footballer. Really? Maybe you need something to hold onto if you're going through that kind of hardship.

The Good Mother Merkel?! For heaven's sake...

by epochepoque on
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In story: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany

Re: The 2nd Migrant Wave to Germany
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I think they know that, deep beneath our carapace of cynicism and materialism and our lack of religious faith, the idea of humanism is alive in Europe and that we can be decent, good, thoughtful, honest people.

Robert Fisk can't know that. They have their cliches about us as much as we have cliches about them.

"Angel of Germany"??? Come on.

by epochepoque on
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In story: 31 August - 4 September 2015

Re: Living On the Planet
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Can't they even address or rule out the issue of Polonium?

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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If Trump is the Republican candidate it will likely be a blowout for the Democrats. But, if circumstances were such that Bernie became the Democratic candidate he might be able to stir up sufficient support to overpower Republican gerrymandering and win both the House and Senate. I am not sure that Hillary would even want to win back the House. Then there would be no excuse not to do a lot of things I doubt she really would want to do - i.e., fundamentally change the system on Wall Street and with respect to the relation between Wall Street and Washington.

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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In story: 31 August - 4 September 2015

Re: Is Netanyahu in real trouble
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Perhaps the snails will balance out the rabbit, but it doesn't say what Bibi ate.

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on
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News and Views

 5 - 11 September 2015

by In Wales - Sep 5, 7 comments

Your take on today's news media

 31 August - 4 September 2015

by In Wales - Aug 31, 34 comments

Your take on today's news media

 Open Thread 24-31 August

by Bjinse - Aug 24, 23 comments

Please keep calm and carry on chatting

 Open Thread 17-23 August

by DoDo - Aug 18, 9 comments

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