How bad is the CAP? Oxfam say it's very bad.

by Colman
Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 03:56:34 PM EST

Via the rabid free-marketers at the Freedom Institute comes the news that Oxfam have published another attack on the CAP, examining how the system works in France.

Oxfam analysis of European Commission’s own statistics that show that the top 15% of French farming businesses consume a massive 60% of its direct payments.

“This gives a lie to the French argument that it uses EU subsidies to support its small farmers. They plainly don’t. Most small French farmers – 70% of them – get only 17% of the subsidies doled out by Paris. This is as graphic a picture of inequality as we’ve already seen in the UK and Spain,” Charveriat said.

“The CAP is a gravy train for Europe’s biggest, richest farmers,” she said. “We don’t want the CAP dismantled – we want it changed so that it supports small farming and environmentally-friendly production, not the big export-oriented agri-businesses that dump cheap produce into poor countries.”


The Oxfam report also says:
  • According to Oxfam research, in Spain, 303 “gold names” in Spanish farming receive more than 398 million Euros each year – this represents more than 1.3 million Euros for each farm. The seven top farms got 14.5 million Euros – this was the same amount shared between the 12,700 smallest Spanish farmers.
  • In Denmark, four Danish cabinet ministers, several of its MPs and even the country's EU commissioner receive payments under the Common Agricultural Policy running into millions of pounds.
  • In the Netherlands, the agriculture minister Cees Veerman was receiving 150,000 Euros in subsidies, while further reports showed that the country’s biggest recipients of direct aid and export subsidies from 1999 to 2003 were the Dutch arm of Mars; Dutch brewer Heineken NV; and US tobacco manufacturer Philip Morris.
  • In Slovakia, the agricultural minister Zsolt Simon was recently reported to be the owner of a company that got 1.3 million in subsidies in 2003 and 2004.
  • In Flanders, Credit Agricole Bank, Nestle, Campina and BASF were among the top beneficiaries
  • In the UK, Oxfam figures have shown that the British Royal family was a big recipient of subsidies, as was sugar giant Tate & Lyle.
  • The CAP is in theory an excellent thing but in practice a nightmare. It needs reform.

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    What do you mean eaxactly by "this time" aimed at the French?

    In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
    by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 04:18:41 PM EST
    In 2003, France proposed to cap subsidies per farm.
    Guess who opposed it: the UK (and Germany)

    In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
    by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 04:19:54 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Cynically, I'd say that that's the sort of proposal they could very safely make. No fear anyone would accept it.
    by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 04:28:13 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    It's one of a series of reports on this sort of thing.
    by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 04:22:08 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Edited to reword that bit.
    by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 04:24:21 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Oxfam is a multinational consultancy, pressure group, charity, technical assistance and information exchange, emergency aid and economic development organisation. They cover the WHOLE thing. Subdivided in 12 national affiliates they do big business with the ministries for economic dev. in the US, UK, Germany, Austria, France, The Netherlands, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Italy, Spain, Australia, New Zealand and the EU Commission.

    If one googles

    • "Oxfam - UK government - project" it shows 601.000 hits,

    • "Oxfam - USAID - project" it shows 154.000 hits,

    • "Oxfam - EuropeAid - project" it shows 47.200 hits,

    • "Oxfam - Bundesministerium wirtschaftliche Zusammenarbeit - Projekt" it shows 10.300 hits.

    Oxfam is a multinational. It sells experts and project staff for fees which lay somewhere between 750 and 1.100 USD per day. One third of these expert and project staff fees are withheld and used to pay the 'overhead' of the 12 national affiliates.
    It seems that they are awarded the biggest chunk of their subsidies from their ministerial business partners in the UK and US governments.

    Oxfam is the Halliburton for global charity.

    Now they talk about small farmers in the EU? Well, I know one thing - they won't do it without getting paid for it.

    "The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

    by Ritter on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 05:28:28 PM EST
    And you'll need to do better than that. Are Oxfam's figures wrong?
    by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 05:40:59 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    OXFAM'S figures? What figures? Do they now figures, too? Well, as I said - they do the WHOLE thing. They lobby, pressurize the same govmt agencies they later advise on policies - just to supply them later with experts to implement these policies, too, which then is followed by project assessments, audits and other controls conducted by ...(?)...yes! OXFAM.

    You are aware of thge fact that such business practices were banned on Wallstreet two or three years ago? They are thought to be unethical.

    OXFAM stinks.

    "The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

    by Ritter on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 05:57:43 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Great rant. Now, is the quote below incorrect?

    Most small French farmers - 70% of them - get only 17% of the subsidies doled out by Paris.
    by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 06:01:33 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    As noted in this earlier diary (Some CAP facts and figures), the CAPwas explicitly designed, in the beginning, to support production, and not farmers, and has always favored the bigger producers.

    That "original sin" has been slowly nibbled at in the various reforms made since the 80s, but it is still present, and it obviously creates a (powerful) class strongly attached to the status quo.

    In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

    by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 06:23:23 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Tell me. I don't know the context. For all I know the 70% could all be hobby weekend farmers who produce crap. OTOH there are big gentleman farmers like Prince Charles who produce bio fruit and vegetables and exquisite food industries which - due to the subsidies - still produce such rare gems like i.e. Rum agricole from Martinique.

    "The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819
    by Ritter on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 06:30:02 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    But Prince Charles is independently wealthy. If he wants to operate an unprofitable organic farm, that's great, or he could sell the produce for an exclusive price. There is no need to subsidize his farms, surely.

    Countries are allowed to subsidize a small industry for "strategic reserve" purposes. Other than that, the CAP should probable be superseded by the proposed Globalization Adjustment Fund. France could allocate its "adjustment" funds to farmers, other countries to other sectors, and the UK to noone at all (since they believe in the free market). Agricultural subsidies should go to farmers, not to farms.

    By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 06:56:48 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    It was all for PR, too. Reportedly the US authorities were more concerned about aid arriving under a foreign flag than about it not arriving at all.

    The press in pretty much every country reported on the frustration of that country's officials. In the case of Spain, not only was aid rejected but a Spanish Member of Parliament and her family were rescued from the Convention Center only after the Spanish Embassy asked for authorisation to fly in a commando from Houston. I suppose the embarrassment was too much in that case.

    The Czech press reported that, after days of stalling, the State Department finally decided to accept some aid "so as not to offend" other countries.

    All for PR, which apparently is the style of government of the global right.

    By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 07:14:57 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Doesn't this one belong on the thread where we were discussing post-Katrina aid? (Where I'd be happy to see it, btw).
    by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 10:12:00 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    One might say, "Who cares about rare gems like Rum agricole?"  

    Very often those rare gems are manufactured from rare cultivars carrying the last genetic material from hundreds - or thousands - of years of selection.  These plants represent a tremendous resource the world needs to save for our future.  Unfortunately these species cannot compete with cultivars bred only for production.

    No one could have predicted

    by ATinNM on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 07:29:13 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    I care.

    In the case of Rum Agricole it has nothing to to with the sugar cane, its difference to all other rums consists solely in the fact that the French rum is produced directly from sugar syrop, whereas the other rum destillers reboil the left over crap from the sugar mills. The difference of the taste is huge. The French can do it only because of the CAP subsidies.

    The same is true for those Chianti wines which still follow the traditional method called 'al governo toscano' which prescribes the double fermentation and an extended decantation period until the first full moon after Easter. The CAP makes it possible.

    The same is possibly true for all food production processes which require time.

    Btw: 'Real' Coca-Cola is produced in the EU and can now be purchased as premium quality re-import in the US too. CAP again?

    Link to real Coca-Cola imported from Holland:

    http://www.popsoda.com/coccolfromho.html

    7oz Longneck Bottle

    The Real Thing with Real Sugar.Enjoy this Classic beverage the way it is meant to taste with Low to Medium Carbonation for more of the Classic Coke Flavor.

    Contains: Carbonated Water, Sugar, Citric Acid, Anti-Oxidant, Natural Cola Extract.

     

    "The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

    by Ritter on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 08:13:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    So do I.

    Anyone distinquish between the 'Bouncing Beefstake,' bred to withstand a fall of 1 meter intact, and an heirloom tomato which survived the decades by its superior taste.

    Commercially, the standard (here in the States) Beefstake is grown because one plant will produce 8 lbs (~3.75 kilos).  Heirlooms cannot compete on a per-plant/output basis.  The Beefstake tastes like rubber but people have to buy the damn things because that's all there is.

    This is slowly changing as produce and meats that have taste and flavour (zounds!) enter the market.  

    No one could have predicted

    by ATinNM on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 08:30:29 PM EST
    [ Parent ]


    No one could have predicted
    by ATinNM on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 08:56:03 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    I think making Kenyan peasants die of starvation to reduce heirloom tomato prices in Covent Garden is kinda fucked up. But that's just me.
    by citizen k (sansracine yahoo.fr) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 10:37:27 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    That quality products are sold at a premium to discerning customers with enough money is as old as the world (or at least as old as trade).  I don't think we have the CAP to thank for the survival of remarkable plant and animal varieties nor that of sophisticated production processes.

    Thanks for the coke link (great catch), I know several big coke drinkers who have been moaning about its taste and that I need to get off my back!

    OT to the people in charge: this whole thread reminds me that we need a "favorite whisky" survey or something of that nature :-)

    Cheers all

    by Guillaume on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 04:12:02 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Looking at the press release:

    Oxfam analysis of European Commission's own statistics that show that the top 15% of French farming businesses consume a massive 60% of its direct payments.

    "This gives a lie to the French argument that it uses EU subsidies to support its small farmers. They plainly don't. Most small French farmers - 70% of them - get only 17% of the subsidies doled out by Paris.

    This argument consists of three parts:

    A:  15% of French farming businesses consume a massive 60% of its direct payments.

    B:  Most small French farmers - 70% of them - get only 17% of the subsidies doled out by Paris.

    C:  [Therefore] This gives a lie to the French argument that it uses EU subsidies to support its small farmers.

    This argument is both intellectually dishonest and fallacious.  Intellectually dishonest because they omit figures and fail to put what figures they give in a context.  Fallacious because the conclusion 'Does Not Necessarily Follow.'

    Complete breakout:

    15% "Top Farmers" get 60% or 5.64 billion
    15% "Omitted Farmers" get 23% or 2.162 billion
    70% "Most Farmers" 17% or 1.598 billion

    First: OXFAM's own press release and figures show "The French" support small farmers by 1.598 billion Euro's.  So how can it be a lie "that it uses EU subsidies to support its small farmers"?  

    Second: to get a good feel for the availablity of support for farmers a complete demographic and statistical analysis needs to be done including corporate farms, full-time farmers, part-time farmers, and the guy that sells potatoes in the local market.  This is important as - 'tho I do not have the figures - the last two classifications necessarily would get a small amount of money although they are, I predict, the most numerous with the smallest hectacres under cultivation.  But even here the small amount may very well be the difference between keeping their land and losing their land (this is the 'Not Follows' part).  We can't know unless a proper analysis is undertaken.

    Third: the "hysteria" of the report leads me to suspect they are cooking the figures.  Certainly one needs to view this report with skepticism.  Given the demonstrated dishonesty of the report my feeling is this can be fought by someone - not me - who has a background in, and knowledge of, the land use patterns and agricultural economics of the EU.

    No one could have predicted

    by ATinNM on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 07:10:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Good points. I smell a LocustWatch statistical debunking project. We can start by looking at EuroStat and the French National Institute for Statistics and Economic Studies.

    By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 07:20:27 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Again I don't have the figures but:

    In general, diverse farms focused on horticultural methodologies are more productive in terms of food stuffs per hectacre, better land utilization, land conservation - in the broad sense, and so on.

    The problem, if it is a problem, lies in the fact horticultural practices requires a larger, and trained, labour force than field crop production.  

    Now I may be an idiot but it seems to me, in Europe, there is a large pool of available labor that could be trained to do these tasks.  This would soak-up some of the unemployed in productive jobs, the movement to the rural districts would increase economic activity due to the higher population, in short: get a Positive Feedback cycle going.

    The downside would be the difficulty in the rural areas assimilating the labor, socially and economically, and the danger of these jobs being avoided as 'Second Class'

    No one could have predicted

    by ATinNM on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 08:18:15 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    What's persuasive about the points? Oxfam says the lions share of subsidies go to large farms so the excuse that the subsidies are there to protect small farmers is bullshit. The numbers back them up.
    by citizen k (sansracine yahoo.fr) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 10:53:31 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Well, if the smaller farmers are getting more subsidies per hectare, or more subsidies per amount of produce, all their numbers are is an argument for land reform: a criticism of the fact that families like the British Royals and Albert of Monaco gobbled up a lot of land by force a long time ago.

    By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 03:41:50 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    The points are persuasive.

    Oxfam notes:


    This gives a lie to the French argument that it uses EU subsidies to support its small farmers.

    It did not say it uses EU subsidies "only" to support small farmers. The affirmation that it uses the subsidies to support its small farmers is true, even if it is not the only thing it uses them for.

    As pointed out in the link above to an earlier diary (Some facts about CAP), the CAP has ALWAYS been seen by the French as a way to support production, not producers, and they certainly have not been the first to use the argument that it supprots small farmers. Neverheless, as noted above, the proposal of a CAP per farm on subsidies was blocked by the UK, because thye have a higher proportion of large farms. So who's hypocritical.

    ATinMN's arguments that Oxfam's statistics do NOT prove the points they are trying to make is correct. That does not mean that CAP is all good, but if you use bad arguments to criticise it, it can only penalise you political goal (to reform it).

    In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

    by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 04:09:45 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    So that's your defense:  (A) some of the money does go to support small farmers, (B)  we never really committed to that line of bullshit, and (C) the Brits are worse?  Well, I'm persuaded. Oxfam really are a bunch of swine. Liberty, equality, sugar beets! All those mozambique whiners need to get a life - or perhaps that's not the best phrase to use for starvation victims, but what the hell.
    by citizen k (sansracine yahoo.fr) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 09:34:20 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    CK,

    Let me begin where we agree.  If you build them (subsidy mechanisms), they will come (wise guy profiteers who game the system legally or not).  CAP helps the big guy a lot before it helps the little guy a bit so the needy farmer defense of it is disingenuous.

    But what's with the "African country of the minute" posts?  First it was Kenyan farmers allegedly starving because of fancy English tomatoes, now it's irony about people whining in Mozambique.  Nothing Jérôme has said suggests indifference towards the hungry so you're really being a bit harsh.  

    Now for Africans: I've bought green beans at a Paris grocer that were produced in Kenya (anecdote, sorry). As for Mozambique, they clearly are not well off but I'd blame colonization, post colonial soviet style government and civil war way before farmer Brown/Marron from Idaho/Poitiers for their plight.  I've read a lot of what you've written and often agree but this "look at the poor Africans" line of reasoning might sound condescending and insufficiently backed by data to some.

    Cheers

    by Guillaume on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 11:21:10 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Here is the moral problem with the subsidy. It is well documented that (a) subsidized food exports cause poor people in the third world to lose their homes and be forced into the big cities where they can work in the informal sectors so beloved of Chicago school economists (selling chiclets, prostitution, pettytheft, just starving, etcetera) and (b) subsidized competition to possible exports (e.g. sugar beets) take away some of the few opportunities that poor nations have to earn hard curency. So when the EU and US are forcing poor nations to open their markets to subsidized exports while at the same time protecting their own farmers, it seems to some of us to be immoral. When these immoral policies are defended with fraudulent claims that the objective is to save angelic, but sturdy,  rustic yeomen and their Bruegel-meets-Organics traditional way of life, it gets a little sickening. When Oxfam points out the bad faith of the EU excuses, attacking Oxfam is poor form.

    As for the multiple African countries, I could throw in some Jamaicans and Brazilians, if you want.
     

    by citizen k (sansracine yahoo.fr) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 11:46:39 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
     by citizen k: ...When Oxfam points out the bad faith of the EU excuses, attacking Oxfam is poor form. ...snip

    My criticism is NOT about form but content. It boild down to this: Where Halliburton is the major global war profiteering corporation, OXFAM is the major global hunger profiteering charity. Both get stinking rich on public money (or subsidies), which allow their execs to live extravagant lifestyles. I also pointed out that OXFAM has unsound business practices which are not even compatible with the ethic code to operate in the capitalist lion den of Wallstreet. To make it even clearer: OXFAM is the gatekeeper who stands between the poor in 3rd world countries and the donor countries in the 1st world. Their main task is to make sure that the peoples will adopt to their (Oxfam's that is) project dev plans and methodologies. They introduce 'modernity' and western thinking to the 'natives' societies. They also keep their hands tightly on the purse (whilst being paid grotesquely high experts fees)and make sure that they keep in control. The indigenous people and their leaders are assigned a role of sub alternity. They are also expected to bow to the technical, operational and professional wisdom of their OXFAM overlords. I have seen these guys at conferences here and on the field overseas. It's Burmese days all over again. Hypocrites and hunger profiteers.

    "The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

    by Ritter on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 12:59:30 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    But your criticism is irrelevant. If Haliburton says that a certain boring angle is bad, you'd be a fool to disegard it because you didn't like their cozy deals in Iraq. Whatever your grievance against Oxfam, their critique of the immoral EU agri subsidy is on target.
     
    by citizen k (sansracine yahoo.fr) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 01:11:23 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    I would tend to agree with Ritter on this, having seen some of the NGOs in action over oil projects. I won't give any names, but that's how it goes.

    NGOs want oil companies to spend money locally (good idea) and to pay decent amounts to the host government (mostly a good idea), but they then say that these governments and local authorities are corrupted by the oil money and need outside supervision (i.e. theirs) to spend it "properly". While they were no doubt well-intentioned at the start (pushing to spend on schooling, local development ,etc...) what they are now doing is perilously close to

    (i) neocolonialism (the locals are too dumb and too corrupt, let's "help" them;

    (ii) racketeering of the big oil companies, who pay them to get the stamp of approval provided by the still highly positive reputation of these NGOs;

    I'll say that ironically, the NGOs are still probably cheaper to "buy" (if more time consuming) for the oil companies than the local authorities, and thus the local populations are probably losers in that transfer...

    In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

    by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 01:38:21 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    (Does that surprise you?)

    The cotton subsidy to American producers is loathsome.  Cotton farmers in western Texas deliberately plant thousands of hectacres of short-staple cotton and then hope the crop fails -- in order to get the Crop Failure Insurance and so they can re-plant a crop proper to the area.  The cotton is substandard, hard to gin, hard to spin, and is manufactured into a substandard fabric.  Meanwhile the crop is dumped on the market at much less than the cost of production depressing cotton prices world-wide and is directly responsible for starvation in African countries.

    The situation is compounded by the fact African long-staple cotton is prefered by the market and is made into a desired high-quality fabric.

    I will be even more forthright:  American cotton subsidies starve Africans to death so President Bush can received political support for bombing Iraqis in the attempt to control oil resources.  

    This drives me absolutely crazy but there is diddle-squat I can do about it except make long posts pointing out policy alternatives in the hope someone, somewhere, will read them, have the interest in the presented alternative, and have the political 'pull' to actually do something to actually change the objective conditions.

    No one could have predicted

    by ATinNM on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 01:06:11 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    So the EU, along with US, leans on poor nations like Mozambique to accept "free trade" rules that none of them would tolerate, flood poor nations with subsidized staples and potential exports causing a massive destruction of local peasant economies, horrible poverty, and balance of payment issues that coincidently, of course, redound to the benefit of the rich nations, and exposure of this criminal behavior is either laughable or just plain wrong.

    Thanks for clearing it up.

    by citizen k (sansracine yahoo.fr) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 10:41:53 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    In the Netherlands, the agriculture minister Cees Veerman was receiving 150,000 Euros in subsidies,

    This is only partially true and no scandal at all. Dutch minister Cees Veerman used to be a farmer himself before he pursued a political career. He handed over his farm to his sons to avoid a direct conflict of interests. The subsidies went to his family account, meaning his sons. Of course he will profit from the subsidies when he stops being a minister and becomes a farmer again, that much is true. But would that be so wrong?

    I prefer having a minister who can speak from professional experience instead of a manager of figures having worked himself to the top. I'm pretty sure the farmers feel slightly more comfortable with Veerman as well who knows their needs and can defend them where necessary.

    Although I agree with Colman that the CAP needs drastic reform, there is no need for Oxfam to stir up the hysteric record. Booh to them.

    by Nomad on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 07:22:15 PM EST
    so depressingly predictable...

    if these figures are true, and it's far from the first time i've heard similar, then it's as corrupt and cozy a situation as many simple, uninformed eu citizens suspect in their guts it to be.

    brussels sprouting big agribiz as usual.

    i agree that bloggers need to bring the true figures to light, and there needs to be as much attention given to this as is given to solving the apparently more urgent problem of the banlieues.

    40 acres, a mule, and some solar panels?

    the price of petrochemical fertilizers rising will bring a marvellous lucidity to the organic argument, as will the price of transportation of goods and workers.

    peak oil has come to save us from ourselves, i'm gradually realising.

    "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

    by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 07:57:30 PM EST
    What is the purpose of the CAP in the first place?

    • If it's to insure adequate local production of food, then the support should go to the largest, most productive farms.

    • If it's to keep the landscape pretty and pastoral, it should go to small farmers and local shopkeepers and picturesque rural antique narrow gauge railroads.
    by asdf on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 11:28:24 PM EST
    If the largest, most productive. intensive monocultures get their larger production from topsoil depletion and petroleum-based fertilizers, I don't see why it would make sense to subsidize them at all. They don't pay for the externalities.

    By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 03:44:18 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Initially, the goal was cvlearly the first one, and that's how the industry organised itself.

    Since the 80s, the various reforms have tried to switch to the second model, but it still has some ways to go...

    In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

    by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 04:12:23 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Field crop agriculture is only "more productive" for certain crops under certain conditions.  Generally foodstuffs with a high bulk low per-unit cost: potatoes, grains, some meats, and etc fall here.  But has been noted the increasing prices for petro-chemical products: fuel, herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, fertilizers, is starting to impact this advantage.  (As Jerome's expertise is in this area I defer to him for specifics and analysis.)  I submit, however, the current practices are not sustainable.

    Horticultural agriculture can be more productive for certain crops under certain conditions.  These crops: vegetables, some meats, fruits, nuts, and etc, have a low bulk high per-unit cost.  (See below for more discussion.)  

    A change to CAP affects and is affected by farming practices, land availability, land ownership patterns, time to market, consumer preference, the capital input situation, competition structure(s), internal and external goverment agricultural and economic policies, world market and current year prices, goverment social policies, entrenched interests, the local, regional, and national tax structures, the local, regional, and national economic climate, weather, climate, agricultural business management techniques ... off the top of my head.  

    This is not an attempt to overwhelm the reader but, rather, to indicate the complexity of the problem.  Too often policies are implemented focus on the near term without considering various other sub-systems (Agents) that also impact or are affected by the policy and the result(s) of the policy.  These policies, implemented with the best will in the world, fail, accerbate the problem, or, worse, have adverse unintended consequences.  (I doubt the instigators of CAP sat around a table and told each other, "We're really going to stick it to those bums in Mozambique.")  

    Eliminating CAP, in one blow and without bridging policies, could destroy French agriculture in total and would certainly bankrupt some number of part-time and hobbyist farmers.  This last would directly affect the land ownership and land use patterns of rural France and, most likely, lead to an increase in land ownership by the larger agricultural entities as they are the ones with greater access to capital for land purchases.  

    Further, one can predict resistence in the rural areas
    as a potential policy change, and the potential affect, becomes known.

    Returning to the major thrust of this post ...

    The suggestion of moving from the high yield, high capital input cost, bulk commodity agriculture production (Field production) to low yield, high labour, high consumer value (Horticulture production) model is not a panacea however much it provides a interesting alternative worthy of further investigation.

    Overall, the various "Back to the Land" movements of the 1900's were not successful because the primary impetus was 'Romantic,' sans economic consideration.  This is all well and good but if you have 10,000/month eggs you'd better have a market for 10,000/month eggs at a price keeping you in business.  Otherwise you've got 10,000+ eggs and a foreclosure notice.

    Second, the investment in production assets (tractors, reapers, storage, feed operations, & etc) would be devalued by any change and access to capital and any loans outstanding on those assets would also be devalued.  Together this means a direct 'hit' on the current 'winners' of CAP.  There are political implications here which I can only note.  Access to capital to fund the purchase Horticultural oriented production assets would have to be provided.

    Third, a demographic and economic study of rural Europe would need to be found, or done, to put any change in some context.  Without this knowledge we can speak only in generalities. (Perhaps Ritter can help here?)  

    Anecdotal evidence, admittedly the worst kind, suggests a Horticultural model provides a mechanism for local production for local consumption, greater net economic return to the producer for the product(s), adds positive reinforcement for superiour land use practices, provides a better product, diversifies cultivar genotypes, increases economic activity in rural areas, and creates employment opportunities.  The potential impact on "The Third World" - obnoxious phrase - is unknown.  (To me.)  

    Suggestion is not proof.  Potential is not guaranteed.  There are some factors overlooked and factors unexamined in this comment.  But I submit enough has been given to question the Keep-the-CAP-as-It-Is/Eliminate-the-CAP-Now dichotomy as the only policy options.

    No one could have predicted

    by ATinNM on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 12:35:51 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    is preferable, but using extremes is not helpful!

    enriching the already rich at the expense of the soil, and the africans, i believe is unproductive, at best, and outright corrup at worst.

    ripping off the public to spread gm should NOT be happening.

    the CAP should balance sustainabilty, good land husbandry, localised distribution etc, all anathema to the corporate mentality.

    jetting vegetables around is so wasteful.

    "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

    by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Nov 10th, 2005 at 11:12:51 AM EST
    [ Parent ]


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