Athens abductions update

by talos
Sat Dec 24th, 2005 at 04:48:54 AM EST

I have long wanted to hear more about current Greek political and cultural issues, and in general want to hear more from other European countries than the major players, so in that spirit promote this article from the diaries ~ whataboutbob

The case of the abducted Pakistani immigrants by greek and english speaking "secret service" (?) officials this past August, mentioned in a previous diary has taken a turn towards the bizarre: Pakistan's interior minister denied that such events took place, in what surely is a case study in illogic:

Interior Minister Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao, in Athens to attend a conference on immigration, said Pakistan's ambassador in Greece had received no official complaint regarding the claims.

"So far he has had no response, which means that no such incident has happened," the minister said. "We have a large community of Pakistanis here in Greece, and they are law-abiding citizens."

Well, first of all, the local Pakistani community denies this, and they have actually taken the issue to court in July already, something that somehow has escaped the ambassador's notice. It is mind-boggling for the ambassador to claim that he was unaware of this case, which was covered by Greek media since August at least, unless he isn't paying much attention...


Along with Jack Straw claiming that the whole thing is "complete nonsense", Greece's Minister of Public Order stated that such an case "Never existed, doesn't exist and will never exist for the Greek authorities" pre-empting the official investigation of the events in question by the Justice Ministry, which treats it as a serious case: Athens prosecutor Dimitris Papagelopoulos assures the public that his office "has the guts" to investigate these events thoroughly. The MPO's statements were characterized by Amnesty International as irresponsible. Voulgarakis, the Minister in question, went on to declare that:

"These types of accusation are being treated by the Public Order Ministry as possibly suspicious or deliberate," Voulgarakis said. "They have the aim of damaging the good atmosphere and security that members of the Pakistani community feel in our country."

He added (according to in.gr) that:

[Some aim] to make the [Pakistani Immigrants] feel insecure, hearing about abductions and things that are possibly happening in other countries, so that they might be more easily manipulated... We will not allow the creation of mujaheddin cells in Greece. Our country is, and will remain hospitable and safe..."

... Which can easily be interpreted as a warning to all concerned to shut up or risk being escorted to the next flight for Karachi - or worse.

Eleftherotypia also reports that:

"According to sources 12 Pakistanis have testified (8 with the prosecutor present) and they confirm the content of the complaint while adding a few details about the events. They say that their abductors spoke fluent Greek and that they led them, hooded, to an unknown location after an hour and a half ride.

They also stated that their prison was possibly in a rural setting, as they felt they were walking on rough ground. Their interrogators asked them questions about their relatives in London, about their relationships with others there, without inflicting serious violence although, as they claim, when they didn't respond or didn't cooperate, they pushed their heads down.

During their detention and interrogation, their captors, who when they arrested them claimed to be Greek Police officers, didn't wear a hood so they could recognize them if they saw them again"

Just today the abducted Pakistani immigrants, talked with representatives of the Athens Lawyers' Union (which volunteered to represent them pro bono), insisted on their claims and added that there were two non-Pakistani (possibly African) detainees with them.

The Athens daily "Ta Nea" suggest that the investigations point to the Greek Secret service (EYP), and that Voulgarakis attempted cover-up will lead him to all sorts of political trouble... Conceivably true yet doubtful. There's all sorts of plausible deniability available and a very short attention span on matters concerning immigrants. I hope I'm proven wrong - but I doubt it.

[cross-posted from histologion, slightly updated]

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Well...shame on me, I didn't even know there was an abduction. I have much to learn about what is going on in Greece. I have visited Greece each of the last two years (totally love it), and often wonder about the political situation there. Any further diaries you would care to submit on Greece...politics, culture or community...would be greatly appreciated.

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Dec 22nd, 2005 at 02:13:47 PM EST
whataboutbob: OK, possibly after the holidays I'll start working on some sort of Greek politics/society 101... Hopefully in a reasonable amount of text.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Dec 23rd, 2005 at 12:35:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That would be great, look forward to more of your writing!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Sat Dec 24th, 2005 at 10:47:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well Greece is Balkan too...looks like entire Europe is cursed and is becoming even worse then Balkan (read secret CIA jails and other stories)...more like South America where people used to "evaporate" over night .It's really heartbreaking. But then again whole world is degenerating and Greece never has been immune especially under the pressure (mostly American)...
by vbo on Sat Dec 24th, 2005 at 09:46:38 AM EST
And that says a lot about the current state of affairs in Europe (especially) and the rest of the world.

Even the Greek people seem to have given up. A generation ago they would have never accepted sh*t like this.

It's understandable though. Look at me. Approaching 50, a lifetime fighting for all the right causes. But I'm getting tired, disheartened. Is this what we fought for? Fascism and racism and endless war? Just don't know anymore......

by Euroliberal on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 07:51:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
30 years ago they made their entire royal family persona non grata because of Constantine's connivance with the dictatorship of the Generals. Interesting parallel with Spain throwing out Alfonso XIII over his endorsement of Primo de Rivera in the 1920's. Interesting too how Alfonso's grandson Juan Carlos and his wife, Constantine's daughter Sofia, have made every effort to ensure that the monarchy is viewed as a bulwark of democracy. Interesting too all the diplomatic dealings that were needed for Sofia to return to Greece on an official state visit as Juan Carlos' consort.

And on, and on, and on...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 07:58:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Constantine's sister...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 08:02:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Since 1974, any attempt to restore the monarchy is a direct violation of the Constitution which guarantees that the political system shall be a parliamentary democracy.
Same goes with any elected official. He/she takes an oath to defend the constitution, therefore, they can never proclaim support for the return of the monarchy.
Other people can do so freely and I believe there is a party that represents their views.
by Euroliberal on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 04:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...it was that serious.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 05:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I feel the same...and am terrified with what I see is coming.
by vbo on Sun Dec 25th, 2005 at 10:26:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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