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The Woman Who Came To Dinner ...

by Oui
Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 07:28:42 AM EST

Condi Continues The "All Bark, No Bite" Tour ◊ by Steve Soto @TLC

The Post reports that Rice is walking backwards from the supposed tough line that Wilkinson fed to the American media over the weekend. The New York Times says that Rice is having a tough time convincing the Europeans of anything ...

Well, at least Rummy is being clear: he has no plans to retire, even if the White House wants his ass gone for Joe Lieberman.

The Woman Who Came To Dinner ...

NATO spokesman James Appathurai said Rice led off a long discussion on the issue of CIA-run prisons and treatment of prisoners in the war on terrorism at the dinner.

The Dutch foreign minister Bernhard Bot also said Rice spoke convincingly about the U.S. commitment to human rights at the dinner.

«« click on pic for NATO story
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice speaks during a North Atlantic Treaty Organization foreign ministers council in Brussels. Rice wrapped up a European trip having reassured her European counterparts about the secret CIA prison row but failing to convince much of the public AFP/BELGA/Etienne Ansotte

More to follow below the fold »»

IHT - Rice calms NATO on treatment of suspects

At a dinner Wednesday for 32 foreign ministers and NATO representatives here, Rice said she decided to bring up the prisoner issue first, since it was on everyone's mind. She later said she thought it "important that we have ample time to discuss and reassure."

The conversation took more than an hour, with many questions. But at one point Philippe Douste-Blazy, the French foreign minister, spoke up: "Allow me to recall here, the United States, they are our friends and our allies."

Other ministers offered only heavily veiled criticisms, leavened with praise for Rice, U.S. and foreign officials said.

Still, the controversy tied up a plan to increase the size and responsibilities of NATO forces in Afghanistan for a while. NATO planned to increase its force there by 6,000 servicemen who would take over security responsibilities in the south, where conditions are far more volatile than in the northern and western areas where NATO forces have operated until now.

Holland was to supply 1,200 of those troops, but refused to agree until it received assurances that any prisoners captured in Afghanistan would be treated humanely, a concern that arose after recent reports of mistreatment by Americans of prisoners, a Dutch official said. On Thursday, assurances were given that prisoners would be treated under the rules of the Geneva conventions, and NATO announced final approval of the deployment of 6,000 additional troops.

Profile of NATO SG Jaap de Hoop Scheffer.

Council of Europe:: Watchdog Wants Satellite Images

Dutch Minister Bot Needs Proper Answers from U.S. State Dep’t

THE HAGUE Nov. 24 — When CIA-prisons and detainee abuse in Europe is proven to be true, the Dutch will reconsider their participation in Enduring Freedom by its special forces in Afghanistan.

FM Bernhard Bot made this statement in parliament this morning. The State of the Netherlands has formally requested a clarification from the chargé d’affaires of the U.S. Embassy in The Hague earlier this week. A possible use of Schiphol Airport for the spook transport of prisoners by the CIA has been put forward for answers.

The 'consequences' FM Bot referred to, is possible suspension of Dutch Special Forces operation under U.S. Command in Afghanistan. Participation of an extension within NATO to the Afghan province of Uruzgan within the ISAF contingent, may also be at stake.

The Dutch right-wing partner in the coalition, VVD Liberal Conservatives, already criticized the suggestion by VP Dick Cheney to make an exception for torture by the CIA in Iraq or Afghanistan.

For the new ISAF-mission in Uruzgan, the United Kingdom and Canada have committed forces and Dutch troops are following special training assignments in preparation, and Minister of Defense Kamp has been an advocate for Dutch participation.

Minister Bernhard Bot as Foreign Minister has the possibility to veto the commitment when the U.S. cannot provide adequate information and when the peace and security mission of the Dutch forces under ISAF interferes with the military operation Enduring Freedom.

The Dutch cabinet has requested written promises of the Afghan government, that prisoners handed over by the Dutch will be treated in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, will not be tortured during interrogation and cannot receive a death sentence.

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

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The Woman Who Came To Dinner ... | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: The Woman Who Came To Dinner ... (none / 1)

Well, at least Rummy is being clear: he has no plans to retire, even if the White House wants his ass gone for Joe Lieberman.

This needs to be diaried. The US moving towards a national unity government to "stay the course"? Scary.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 08:24:36 AM EST

Re: The Woman Who Came To Dinner ... (none / 0)

The conversation took more than an hour, with many questions. But at one point Philippe Douste-Blazy, the French foreign minister, spoke up: "Allow me to recall here, the United States, they are our friends and our allies."
Other ministers offered only heavily veiled criticisms, leavened with praise for Rice, U.S. and foreign officials said.

Feudal vassals all of them.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 08:33:26 AM EST

Re: The Woman Who Came To Dinner ... (none / 0)

And/or following a policy of containment. I think it's both - when there's a crazy with a gun in the room you don't want to make them too mad.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 09:03:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Containment (none / 1)

See? The Neocons were right! The french foreign minister is a cheese-eating surrender monkey!

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 09:31:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

NATO Press Conference (none / 0)

NATO HQ Brussels - Foreign Ministers Meeting

SG Jaap de Hoop Scheffer

Belgium Foreign Minister De Gucht hosted the Transatlantic dinner--NATO ministers, EU Foreign Ministers--and as you might have heard there was a very good discussion on a question [secret detention centers and CIA flights - Oui] which has been in discussion very much over the past weeks.

Also yesterday evening, as you will have heard, we discussed at length the situation in the Balkans. I made a few remarks on Afghanistan, but I'll come back to that subject as far as our meetings are today are concerned.

It is good to tell you that this morning, over a working breakfast, NATO ministers had a broad-ranging and frank discussion, informal discussion at the security situation in the broader Middle East. Secretary Rice kicked off a discussion followed by French Minister Douste-Blazy, Minister Gül and many others. And there was a frank exchange of views on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, Syria, Lebanon, Iran. It was a good discussion. Also, I think, underpinning NATO's outreach in the region in the framework of the Mediterranean Dialogue and the so-called Istanbul Cooperation Initiative.

It is not a discussion to give NATO, of course, a direct role in the peace process, or a direct role in what's happening in the talks between the EU-3 supported by the United States. But it is important that we have this political Trans-Atlantic debate.

Q & A Session

As such, you will not see this discussion continue in the NATO framework, because I say again, it is not a NATO issue as such. We have our own detention policy.

About Afghanistan and the Dutch participation, it goes without saying that after all the important work which has been done in this NATO building and elsewhere I preparing for ISAF expansion, it is my strong hope that all the potential contributors to this expansion will indeed participate. I also know, perhaps better than anybody that Dutch participation awaits a cabinet decision and a parliamentary decision because the Parliament in the Netherlands, as you and I know, plays the decisive role in the process of participating in such a mission.

If you ask me, do you hope that the Dutch will participate? My answer is clearly, of course I do, because I think this expansion is very important indeed, and we need as many allies as we can get.

Final Communiqué

Press Conference Condoleezza Rice - MP3

In a New York Times editorial entitled "Torturing the facts", Maureen Dowd cited Rice as saying "The United States government does not authorize or condone torture of detainees". Dowd commented sarcastically: "It all depends what you mean by 'authorize,' 'condone,' 'torture,' and 'detainees.'"

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY

by Oui on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 11:01:23 AM EST

Fly On The Wall At Dinner (none / 1)

.
Would love to have been the fly during dinner.

It's my estimate the Condi Hour was well spent in speaking one's mind in a frank and clear manner not to be misinterpreted or understood. It's the style of SG Jaap de Hoop Scheffer and his diplomatic experience to set guidelines to follow up with a constructive discussion on today's problems in NATO and the decisions to be made.

His terminology to clear the air should be read as a lot of harsh words were needed before the real Atlantic Alliance debate could go forward.

Angela Merkel Not Happy with Condi Rice

Dutch Ministers Will Back ISAF Mission Uruzgan

The Dutch will participate with 1,100 troops in the NATO led ISAF mission to Afghan province of Uruzgan. The U.S. forces will end Operation Enduring Freedom early 2006 when NATO takes over to install a Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT).

The Dutch forces have received a guarantee from the U.S. Central Command for support in case of extreme violence or urgent medical assistance be needed. With the government of President Karzai in Kabul a Memorandum of Understanding was signed to transfer prisoners within 96 hours to Afghan authority and not to the Americans.

Council of Europe

A top Council of Europe official said the body had been granted permission to look at images in the archives of the European Union's main satellite center, as well as log books held by the EU's air safety organization.

Rene van der Linden, chairman of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, also said America's war on terror was not a real war.

"There is ... a difference of opinion between Condoleezza Rice and the Council of Europe, because the law of war doesn't exist. We have international conventions. We are fully in favor of fight against terrorism, but we have to be aware that certain cases can not be accepted," van der Linden said.

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY

by Oui on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 02:51:53 PM EST

Your Question For Noam Chomsky ... (none / 0)

Noam Chomsky In Amsterdam ...

Put your questions on Iraq and the War on Terror to Noam Chomsky in this week's forum.

Chomsky says the invasion of Iraq is "one of the most astonishing failures in military history".
The major powers - with the US at the top of the list - are the main source of terrorism.

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY

by Oui on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 05:01:30 PM EST

My question (none / 1)

Forget about the US and EU governments: they're hopeless. Where to for the people? How can the insanity be stopped? Or will it have to run its course and get much worse before it can get better?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 05:16:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My question (none / 1)

The problem of representative democracy is that the people only have periodic opportunities to change the direction of things. Campaigning can help, but until election time rolls around it is rare for it to be enough.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Dec 9th, 2005 at 05:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Points Haven't Been Neglected ... (none / 0)

≈ Cross-posted from Arthur Gilroy's diary --
Read this: Harold Pinter's Nobel Prize Speech ≈

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In diary - Beautiful Dutch Democracy ¶ June 1, 2005

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In diary - "U.S. World Leader Human Rights"

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In diary - "Hariri Assassination By Suicide Truck Bomb ¶ Mitsubishi Stolen in Japan" and a comment

NATO Chief: Rice 'Cleared the Air' on Detainee Charges
In diary - The Woman Who Came To Dinner ... ¶ Condi Rice Reception @NATO

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY

by Oui on Sat Dec 10th, 2005 at 09:36:06 AM EST

The Woman Who Came To Dinner ... | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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