FEMA pulling out - regular military moving in

by Boudicca
Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:14:20 PM EST

promoted by the site gnomes. Use as an open thread to bring news, links and rant. This is fucking unbelievable - and yet all too believeable

Forgive a short diary please. My daugher and her boyfriend are in touch with someone who runs a large server in NO: he has stayed in their tower block - on floor 12 - and kept going with a generator.

He has just posted on his LJ that the FEMA/national guard are being replaced by regular military. I don't know what this means, whether it is good or bad, but have a horrid feeling that desperate people who have been left to drown/starve/dehydrate will end up being shot as looters.

The LJ is here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/


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cross posted at booman
by Boudicca (badgerval at hotmail dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:59:35 PM EST
thanks boudicca for filling us in on this...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:08:30 PM EST
went and checked that site out...that is compelling, brings tears to my eyes to read it...very desperate situation.

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There are hundreds of people from the National Guard here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. We're seeing people from all the agencies. They're waiting to deploy.

Their sense is that the condition inside New Orleans is so unstable they don't want to be sending people into harm's way.

Some state officials, though, have been getting into the center of town.

One of them, for example, got in with a bus. He saw one woman who was so desperate she actually handed her 2-month-old baby to another woman and said, "Take my child. I can't get on this bus, but you've got to try to save the child."

The woman promised her she would take care of that baby.

Living like animals

Posted: 1:07 p.m. ET
CNN's Chris Lawrence in New Orleans, Louisiana

It's hard to believe this is New Orleans.

We spent the last few hours at the New Orleans Convention Center. There are thousands of people lying in the street.

We saw mothers holding babies, some of them just three, four and five months old, living in horrible conditions. Diapers littered the ground. Feces were on the ground. Sewage was spilled all around.

These people are being forced to live like animals. When you look at the mothers, your heart just breaks.

Some of the images we have gathered are very, very graphic.

We saw dead bodies. People are dying at the center and there is no one to get them. We saw a grandmother in a wheelchair pushed up to the wall and covered with a sheet. Right next to her was another dead body wrapped in a white sheet.

Right in front of us a man went into a seizure on the ground. No one here has medical training. There is nowhere to evacuate these people to.

People have been sitting there without food and water and waiting. They are asking -- "When are the buses coming? When are they coming to help us?"

We just had to say we don't know.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/scene.blog/index.html

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:16:29 PM EST
I read the link you posted...this is fuckin insane. where is the government??? I'm totally speechless to read this stuff...after 3 days. Bush should be put on trial for this...he has the power to get things moving, and he isn't. totally nuts...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:23:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I saw the original picture yesterday - it was bigger and there were many more school buses on the original, but I can not find it anymore.

What I do not understand is why these buses have not been used for the evacuation of those people with out a car.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:34:51 PM EST
Uh, maybe because they're under six feet of water?
by asdf on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why were they not moved to high-ground beforehand?  We had time.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the evacuation started bevor the water was in - so why have they not been used?
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:39:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know, maybe the drivers were all evacuated. Why do you just think that there's some magic spell that can be cast to solve the problems resulting from a catastrophe like this?
by asdf on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 08:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who said anything about a magic spell?  There are practical things that can be done before, during, and after a disaster.  Many of these were not done.  That's what people are questioning.  No one is thinking there's a magic spell.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 11:51:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Come visit BoomanTribune.com.  We are all over this story.
by susanhu (susanhuatearthlinkdotnet) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:45:35 PM EST
That was from the National Weather Service on Sunday night:



...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

AT LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL. PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. MANY WOOD FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A FEW POSSIBLY TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. MANY WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES MAY LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MANY POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED.

With the government itself announcing "DEVASTATING DAMAGE", shouldn't there have been just a little bit of contingency planning, just in case that very official and very explicit public warning turned out to be true? They've lost 4 full days. They had all the information and they let people die.

This is criminal. It's insane. It's unbelievable.

Read this again:



POWER OUTAGES MAY LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MANY POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

I have no words. I simply cannot believe this.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:51:18 PM EST
"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

-George Walker Bush

Just a follow up on Jerome's comment. He won't be anticipating his own impeachment either, that boy is just plain dense.

by US Blues on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 04:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."
-George Walker Bush

It was all very careless and confused. They were careless people, Tom and Daisy--they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessnes or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made...

Cross-posted on Daily Kos.


My mind is aglow with whirling transient nodes of thought careening through a cosmic vapor of invention. -- Hedley Lamarr.

by Angry Blue Planet (jrclio@aol.com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 05:33:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You and me both. We expect these kind of stories when relief efforts start too late in far away poverty stricken parts of the world, but this is a first world country. The richest in the world. It's just unbelievable.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 05:02:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this is a first world country...

no, only parts of it are...

there's discussion over at Moon of Alabama -- various threads on NO -- and Billmon has posted a good article, 'When the Levee Breaks.'  a taste of progressive American reactions to the fiasco.  Chris Floyd has commented on NO as an example of the end-state of the neocon destruction of the commons, at CounterPunch.

will the Yanks see this event as the global humiliation that it is?  will it provoke any re-evaluation or political unrest?  or will they cruise on with their signature parochialism, unaware of or indifferent to the shame of this highly visible governmental and societal failure?  the whole world is watching...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 05:08:42 PM EST
I hope you mean the Yanks in power, because millions of us have been seeing this and fighting this for decades, and we've been cut out of the system and marginalized and left powerless to do anything about it.  

John Edwards is not talking out of his ass when he discusses two Americas.  I'm waiting for first world America and the rest of the world to listen and believe.  Third world America has been saying so for years, but are being dismissed as special interest groups -- that's a black thing, a women's thing, an immigrant thing, a gay thing.  No.  It's not.  It's a people thing and the party of the people hasn't listened.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 05:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, Izzy, sorry.  I've been living in the States myself for most of my life (an immigrant) and when I say "the Yanks" I mean the power structure, as well as the deluded/sedated masses and the crypto-fascist demographic -- not the angst-ridden, marginalised, furious, futile progressive forces (though many of these also could do with a quick remedial course in physics and energy math imho).

the mismanagement of this incident is so grotesque that it is bound to spawn a whole new genre of tinfoilerie --  could such a stunning fiasco really have happened without a LIHOP component?  my faith in post-peak imperial stupidity is such that I think idiocy alone (well, with a dash of kneejerk classism and racism) can account for the scope of the disaster, without dragging in explicit intent or conspiracy.  but for some people that won't be sufficient... and we'll have, I predict, a lot of theories about why official response was delayed, why no one thought about the evac needs of the poor and disabled, etc.  the overt racism of the media response can only feed such disquiet...

I find myself thinking over and over again, "this is bad.  this is very bad."  the way you do when you've just sprained or broken something and the realisation is sinking in that it's serious.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 05:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks, DeAnander, and I agree with everything you say but one.  I do not have limitless faith in imperial incompetance.  I do not think it is tinfoilerie to hold them responsible.  They were warned of this beforehand.  They know or have access to the specialists who can deal with it.  They knew on Monday the levee was breached and did nothing.  They know there's a 72 hour window and they waited 72 hours.  I do not think this was planned, but it certainly was deliberate -- they do not care.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 06:08:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They knew on Monday the levee was breached and did nothing.  They know there's a 72 hour window and they waited 72 hours.  I do not think this was planned, but it certainly was deliberate -- they do not care.

It was all very careless and confused. They were careless people, Tom and Daisy--they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessnes or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made...

F. Scott pretty much summed up Bush-type people more than 80 years ago.
You've got to be a carefully-taught rentier to achieve this level of indifference.


My mind is aglow with whirling transient nodes of thought careening through a cosmic vapor of invention. -- Hedley Lamarr.

by Angry Blue Planet (jrclio@aol.com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 06:51:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would agree with these comments if you replaced "they" with "we." It's not some remote "they" that screwed this up, it's the voting public: Us.

WE built the city on a floodplain, WE pumped out the groundwater, WE put up the flood walls, WE didn't have a plan for getting people out of the city...

by asdf on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 08:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
     Or, to put it another way, 51% of "we" elected someone who cut funding for flood control projects in Southern Louisiana and who put a political hack in charge of the agency responsible for emergency management.  

     It all depends on how we define "we".
     No human agency could have kept Katrina from doing some damage to NOLA. But there's damage and there's damage, and there are big differences in human costs as well. Different policies under different leadership can make a difference.
     Is anyone prepared to argue at this point that elections don't matter and it doesn't make any difference who wins?

[crickets chirp]

[paint dries]

[grass grows]

I thought not.

My mind is aglow with whirling transient nodes of thought careening through a cosmic vapor of invention. -- Hedley Lamarr.

by Angry Blue Planet (jrclio@aol.com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 08:40:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I lived along the Mississippi when it flooded about 12 years ago.  

President Clinton and Al Gore came to assess the damage immediately.  

My father spent a whole day sandbagging with Gore.  

There was a National Guard truck on every street corner.  Probably more National Guard were in my area than are in the whole country at this point.

There was water, food and shelter for everyone.  

Prison inmates were brought in to help with the clean up and the levees...

No, it was nothing on the scale of this, but there was no blaming, no "we couldn't have forseen..." no unnecessary tragedy ... Just everyone banding together and getting to work.  Everyone thought FEMA was joke then too, but when they sat twiddling their thumbs and shuffling paper work, the people simply took it upon themselves to do the work.  None of this finger pointing and running around in a panic.  It's like a bunch of stoned teenagers are running this show saying, "Dude, that city's screwed.  Shit.  Let's get outta here before we get caught."

F-ing disgrace.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wait... FEMA arrived?  When?  Where?  I've yet to read anything to suggest that FEMA ever really had a presence there.

How oft the sight of means to do ill deeds Makes ill deeds done. Shakespeare; King John
by ogre (p-mclaughlin@REMOVETHIScox.net) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 09:54:45 PM EST
Depends on who you want to believe-Fema or you're lying eyes.  The head of Fema, a bush appointed lawyer(a lawyer for shits sake) has been all over the news the last several days saying how well things are going..no I'm not kidding-it's surreal.  It's like the guy-Michael Brown-is giving reports/updates on a completely different disaster area or continent.  It's absolutely fucken amazen what the head of FEMA has been saying. They're rescuing people, people are getting water, etc etc ...while also plying the standard this was unprecedented-in other words no accountability you know.  Unbelievable and shameful.

"People never do evil so throughly and happily as when they do it from moral conviction."-Blaise Pascal
by chocolate ink on Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 04:21:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
uh-huh.  and the grateful Afghanis are flying kites, except for the women and girls who are doing leotarded aerobics in public as a break from their advanced course work in particle physics and Chicago School economics.  and Iraq is getting better and better in every way, every day.

and we are pleased to announce that the tractor collective of SomeplaceYouNeverHeardOfsk has once again exceeded their 5 year production target.

sheesh.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 01:25:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cool. The market is working then.

When do I get my pony?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 01:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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