International reaction to Hurricane Katrina

by Colman
Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 01:30:56 PM EST

Support "International Blogging for Disaster Relief Day" - promoted from diaries ~ whataboutbob

There seem to be a lot of complaints  in the US about the lack of an International reaction. I know that some heads of state have sent their condolences, and I know Canada and  Venezuela have offered help.

Has your country offered condolences or help? If not, why not?

Update [2005-9-1 14:10:4 by Colman]:

European countries were on Thursday preparing to release emergency stockpiles of petrol as the US confirmed that some refineries hit by Hurricane Katrina would remain shut for several months.
FT.com.

Update [2005-9-2 2:40:50 by Colman]:WWLTV, have a story listing international help offered.


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The infamous US con blogger Michelle Malkin is all over this. She is waspish:

United Nations Undersecretary-General Jan Egeland--yeah, the same jerk who called America "stingy" during the Indonesian tsunami disaster last year--has come around to offering the U.N.'s help to victims of Hurricane Katrina (hat tip: Catez Stevens, who has more):

United Nations Undersecretary-General Jan Egeland, who oversaw relief efforts after the Indian Ocean tsunami in December 2004, offered Washington U.N. assistance in a formal letter to new U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton.

"The United Nations stands ready to help with any kind of disaster expertise that might be required ... in full recognition that the United States is the country in the world that possesses the greatest civilian and military search and rescue and recovery assets themselves," Egeland told Reuters in an interview.

He said U.S. officials had thanked the U.N. for its offer, but had not requested any assistance so far.


This is also worth noting, since so many readers have been wondering:

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said earlier on Wednesday 10 to 12 foreign governments have offered general assistance to the United States to deal with the hurricane aftermath but no decision had been made about how these offers might be used.

Would be nice to know which 10-12, wouldn't it?

Then she notices that even British are largely indifferent to U.S. Plight:

If British Prime Minister Tony Blair had not been vacationing in the Caribbean yesterday, it seems a safe bet he would have announced to the world that Britain feels deep sympathy for its freshly wounded ally, the United States.

He might have been wrong.

In fact, to judge by the reaction of some Londoners yesterday to Katrina's rising death toll, Britons seem to feel the United States is overdrawn on sympathy...

What to say? Is this a reaction to the mischevious "world leader" who is too reckless about global warming and war-making consequences, and who finally got into trouble himself?  As an excuse, we can still say that the world seems to be as much shocked as the US President.

by das monde on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 06:03:36 AM EST
My own gut feeling is that:

a) Part of this is just about time differences and news cycles. It's really only yesterday evening and this morning that the true scale of the event has made it into mainstream media. This is partly because, of course, the US government was downplaying it earlier.

b) There's not much for foreigners to do in this situation. When it's a "poor country" then the charity machine fires up and there are campaigns etc. But we have been told for the last N years that the USA is the richest, most successful, most efficient, most capable, most naturally talented country in the world. So, whilst we may feel sorrow and sympathy for people trapped in the Superdome, there's no campaign to raise money etc. Sorrow and sympathy are just feelings and words, especially in the hearts of normal people. If Malkin doesn't read many European blogs or talk to many normal Europeans, she's not likely to come into contact with those words and feelings.

c) British politicians are all on holiday, so they are not making much media noise at the moment. Lots of blogs and the like are talking about this, but that's not official the way a Tony Blair statement would be for people like Malkin.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 06:36:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think the "US government" was downplaying it earlier.  We were told by meteorologists that there was going to be a tidal wave like something out of a Hollywood movie which would hit N.O.  When it missed the city, there was a huge collective sigh of relief.  

I think we in the US are so used to the media hyping up storms, every storm is supposed to be the worst we'll see in our lifetimes.  Drama sells.  Then, when they turn out to be just another bad but not apocalyptic storm, everyone goes back to whatever they were doing before.

So I think that was the initial reaction when the tidal wave missed New Orleans.  Then, over the past 3 days, it has begun to sink in just how horrible it actually is.  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:09:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't mean to sound like I was casting blame. Just that radio reports with statements from minor US embassy officials were downplaying the size of the event well past the publication of the morning newspapers yesterday. This obviously means that it wasn't going to hit home in people's minds here until this morning's newspapers.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:27:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it is hard to thumb your nose at the world and then complain when they don't come running to help you when you are in trouble...

The only thing is, the people who are in trouble, esp. the ones in grave trouble: the poor African American community, are not the ones who thumbed their nose at the world.  Most of them didn't even vote for Bush.  So they should not be made to suffer for his behavoir.  My hope is that people around the world are able to differentiate between the President and the American citizens.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 09:58:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One thing to note is that Michelle Malkin is a notorious hater and wench. Let's not take her as a representative of anyone's reaction to this mess.
by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 01:48:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Malkin is not one to look at for a balanced look at the situation.  

The international community, as well as the UN have offered help.  Venezuela was one of the first to offer help. There was a story 3 days ago about Canada having a plane with supplies and personnel sitting on a tarmac, ready to fly, but the US declined the offer and would not give permission for the plane to enter our country. The US government has declined all offers of international help and has said (even in the tidbit Malkin posted) that they have made no decision about how these offers might be used.  They can't figure out how to use international help?  No surprise, here, considering their mantra is to go it alone, no matter what.  

I've been disgusted with my government, since Georgie boy took office.  Now, however, I'm so angry the only time I get relief from that emotion is when I'm sleeping.

by Maggie Mae on Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 11:00:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Chirac sent some condoleances to Bush. The French text can be found here.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 08:12:58 AM EST
Betty sent her standard condolence message to Shrub. Ex colonies outside the COmmonwealth get shorter ones.


"I was deeply shocked and saddened to learn of the deaths and injuries caused by Hurricane Katrina, and the scale of the damage and destruction now becoming apparent across the southern states.

"My sympathy goes to you and the people of the United States, especially to the families of those who have lost their lives, to the injured and to all who have been affected by this terrible disaster.

Straw just noted that there were only a few Britons affected and the combine efforts of three consular offices would be available to help them.

Blair is on holiday in Barbados.
His deputy Prescott for Americans is in comprehensible.

by Londonbear on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 09:19:30 AM EST
Also remember that the EU Foreign ministers are in Wales for a scheduled meeting. The main item is Turkish accession but there might be a statement and offer of help.
by Londonbear on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 09:30:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to this article Schroeder sent his condolences to Bush two days ago on the 30th.
What puzzles me is, that I am given the impression that the US is/was REFUSING international help at least until yesterday. I read an article by a German Red Cross person, that stated the reason that they did not collect was because they have not been asked to get involved, after they made their offer.
This has now changed, a look at their website reveals, that they are now collecting as well.

It seems to be down to a not very well coordinated rescue organisation. But there certainly is lots of expression of sympathy.

One reason, why there is not such a public outpooring of condolence as f.e after the Tsunami, is that
everybody was expecting a Hurrican to hit NO. So maybe they thought, ah well, America has those all the time, and we don't always say something, when a Hurrican hits Florida. The extend of the devastation caused is dawning so slowly for these foreign leader, almost as slowly as for Bush, seen to play the guitar on the 30th.

Why would anybody send condolences to a country whoms leader himself is so blatendly obvious not concerned?

by PeWi on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:10:39 AM EST
Why would anybody send condolences to a country whoms leader himself is so blatendly obvious not concerned?

Because everyone knows Bush is an incompetent idiot who has no grasp on reality and because anyone can see pictures and stories reflecting what is happening down there.


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:18:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a debate going on in Germany about the German reaction to Katrina. The critique goes: "Yes, Chancellor Schröder has sent his condolences, and the German Red Cross has offered help. But there have also been appalling reactions by government members who are blatantly playing the anti-Bush card for votes."

They mean Minister of the Environment Jürgen Trittin who published an article in the Frankfurter Rundschau, criticising President Bush without finding a single word of compassion and condolence. Trittin's most disputed comment:

The American president closes his eyes before the economic and humanitarian damage inflicted by natural disasters like Katrina, and that means he closes his eyes before neglected climate protection.


But you know what? - He is right! The problem is: How can we, from a position outside the U.S., point to the political/environmental issue without getting accused of cheaply exploiting anti-American sentiments?
by Saturday (geckes(at)gmx.net) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Read, for example, Der Spiegel with a harsh and (IMO) unjustified attack on Trittin.
by Saturday (geckes(at)gmx.net) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They seem to have removed the entry you linked to, it now shows a link to Aid Organisations, but there is also this:

Binge Hate from the American right. Who cannot listen, and shouts straight back. Some excerpts:

" The sacrifices the American People made for the German People during the long years of Comunist threat is now forgotten and is replace by a contempt for the people who helped them."

"That and their own callousness toward any human being that differed from their own Nazi politics. Shame on the German people, they should know better by now. But I guess once a dumb head, always a dumb head. I would like to have cursed you all out,but as a 62 yr. old lady, I will just leave it as the above."

"This article displays the sort of compassion that I would expect from a country that's started 2 world wars, sold weapons to iraq for oil, side-stepping UN sanctions, then has the gall to take a self-exalted moral high ground."...

"This article displays the sort of compassion that I would expect from a country that's started 2 world wars, sold weapons to iraq for oil, side-stepping UN sanctions, then has the gall to take a self-exalted moral high ground."

"Wonderful commentary from our German "allies." We in America can care less about what a country like Germany has to say about the U.S. Just remember the next time you let another fascist such as Hitler take over your country, don't come looking to us. Screw Europe."

"The majority of German brains have been adversely affected by global warming - they're definitely fried."

no, nothing more its to depressing.

What I don't understand why these reactions are like the behavior of people that know the criticizing person is right and just cannot get to admit it to themselves.

by PeWi on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 05:44:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Both in case of Germany.

Condolences in the form of a letter and an offer to help in every available way if asked for help.
(It´s only sensible to want to know what kind of help is needed.)

(Audio clip in German from the premier news show in Germany "Tagesschau".)
http://www.tagesschau.de/audio/0,2773,OID4693926_NAV_BAB,00.html

First half mentions that Germany stands ready to help if the US government asks for specific help. Like water purification equipment, prefabricated homes and so on. And that Chancellor Schroeder has ordered all government departments to check what else could be offered.
Foreign secretary Fischer adds that the German embassy will assist any German citizen stranded in the disaster zone. But that for now there doesn´t seem to be any German victims.
(Last part mentions Green politicians blasting away at Bush.)

Russia offered help too.
WASHINGTON, September 1 (Itar-Tass) - The United States said it is thankful to Russia for the readiness to provide assistance in eliminating the consequences of the Katrina hurricane, but believes it can handle the crisis on its own.
http://story.russiaherald.com/p.x/ct/9/cid/723971d98160d438/id/fe6c94040bd73b28/

By the way, so far even the Canadian help seem to have trouble just getting into the USA.

Video clip:
http://www.canada.com/toronto/video/GN050831bourbeau.html

Either the Bush administration is totally disorganised and doesn´t know what to do. Or they don´t want to admit that the USA might "need" foreign help.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:24:17 AM EST
Steve Gilliard had the following in the original version of this post.
Bush said the United States had the resources to cover the massive rebuilding costs, and was not looking for foreign aid.

"I'm not expecting much from foreign nations, because I haven't asked for it. I'm expecting sympathy and maybe some will send cash," he said.


by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:29:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it certainly looks that way! :(

And I don´t get it!
Every time a disaster happens we are told that the first few days are critical. First to rescue as many people as possible and then to care for the survivors.
Clean water, food, dry clothing, medical care.
And that a lot of people will unnecessarily die without it.

Those Canadian rescue teams could already be there in Louisiana by now.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:42:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here is what is being reported n the US news:
We have the resources and ability to help those outside New Orleans, like in Mississipi, to provide the survivors with food, water and protection.

It is the people trapped in New Orleans who need immediate help.  And lack of funds or even personel do not seem to be the crux of the problem.  It sounds like it is nearly impossible to get in or out of the city.  And there is no way to communicate with those 50-100,000 people still in the city.  The plan is NOT to get clean water, food, dry clothing, medical care to those people, but to GET THEM OUT and to abandon the city.  

I'd think we could certainly use more helicopter and airboat rescue teams.

It troubles me that, at least in the foreign press, it appears Bush is not asking for help.  But given the facts that 1)it has taken everyone a while to comprehend how bad this is, 2)Bush sat reading a childrens book while our country was attacked and 3)the sheer logistics which, according to officials, have made it "impossible" to carry out a timely and efficient search and rescue opperation ... I'd hold off on speculation that Bush has refused help out of pride.

Also, it is the Red Cross and not the American government which is handling all of the cash donations and the Mayor of N.O. has been begging people to give to the Red Cross since Monday.

The Canadians shouldn't be waiting for an invite.  If they want to help, they should just come and help.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 11:13:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I understand your point about New Orleans.
Still, evacuating 60,000 people will take time.

Not to mention that according to CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html
"Thousands of people have been sleeping on streets, interstate access ramps, bridges or any dry spot they can find.

Outside the New Orleans Convention Center, a huge crowd waited on the sidewalks for aid that could be a long time coming. The building was used as a secondary shelter when the Louisiana Superdome was overwhelmed."

Those people will need water and food now...

Still, I do understand your point.

It troubles me that, at least in the foreign press, it appears Bush is not asking for help.

One point of this thread was showing Americans that foreign countries and foreign aid organisations are willing to help. Even if we´re not needed, we´re offering it. It worries me in return that a lot/some Americans seem to be thinking that we don´t want to help.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 12:48:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Serious lack of communication.  The world is waiting for the US to accept their help.  The US is wondering where the rest of the world is...

If the US is turning away help, that is just a crime against humanity.  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 12:57:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Canadians were not waiting for an invite.  They were coming from Vancouver and refused entry.

I would ask everyone here, and perhaps especially in Europe, to contact  every politician and media outlet that they can to let them know the US reaction is not acceptable.  

We have zero leadership, zero resources, and we are letting these people die.  Please understand what you are seeing.  They knew Monday night the levee was breached and what it meant.  The did not respond.  This is a crime against humanity.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 12:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wasn't able to watch the clip so I didn't know they were actually turned away.

Insane.  Just insane.

And I second what Izzy said.  Get the word out.  This is unacceptable.  And help is desperately needed.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 12:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's calm down a little bit.

The response to disaster in the US has been a shock and a huge failure. However, the reports say that rescue teams have been turned back because of the chaos, not because of politics.

For those of you who don't know, rescue workers and those steering private boats have shot and killed. boats have been highjacked. The city and those left are in a bad state, and all the violence isn't helping matters. S & R missions were actually put on hold at one point yesterday. Today the mass evacuation of the Superdome was halted, and troops were brought in to contain the violence. So, no matter how much other countries want to help, they can't.

In the apportionment of blame, heads need to roll at fEMA and within the US administration for this inept handling of disaster response. Louisiana officials should also be ashamed. lastly, our newspeople who are constantly focusing on looting should hang their heads. Emphasizing the value of property (worthless WALMART crap) over human lives is unacceptable, and even worse the coverage has influenced law enforcement to divert attention away from rescue operations to looting.

This is a fiasco, and unfortunately, while any offers are appreciated, there's not much other countries can do.

Myself, I'm sending money locally to organizations that have no affiliation with the S & R operations. I'm hoping that the refugees (many of whom will be permanently displaced) can go on with their lives.

by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 01:13:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, yes, there is the problem that the Imperial forces can't even control a disaster in their own country 4 days later, but that doesn't alter the fact that it might be nice to have the specialised S&R crews in place.

In fact a sensible administration would have had them ready to go beforehand: I knew on Saturday that this could happen. That was the time to be lining up foreign help. Not to mention your own resources Put them on standby. Why aren't there thousands of troops on the streets of New Orleans? Why weren't they there on Monday or Tuesday?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 01:21:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman, just as an FYI, there are thousands of search & rescue people in Louisiana right now waiting to get into New Orleans. Again, I'm only addressing the response to foreign offers for S & R. Given the situation, it makes sense why they aren't being called for right now.

As for the rest of your questions, I agree. Unfortunately, there is a colossal eff-up somewhere. I have no idea where it is, but it should be condemned. Two days ago when 4,000 national guardsman moved in, the commander said that they are only the forward local position and that tens of thousands will be moving in soon. Where are they?

But as for the S & R teams from foreign nations (which is at the center of this particular diary) I completely understand why they haven't been invited in. The reports right now have thousands of S & R people from the US waiting to enter the city.

by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 01:47:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Stranded Spain MP describes Katrina chaos

Lourdes Muñoz Santamaria, her husband and his 10-year-old son were on vacation in New Orleans and were unable to get a flight out of the city before Hurricane Katrina struck.

...
According to Boix, Muñoz said dead bodies were inside the center and others were outside, with no one removing them.

Muñoz also told Boix there was no water at the center, and that when a few evacuation buses pulled up to the center Wednesday, there was a scramble to get aboard and only the strongest made it, because no authorities were on hand to direct a more-orderly evacuation.

Later, Muñoz described the situation to CNN partner station CNN+ in Madrid.

"It's everyone for himself. The police and army pass by the center, but here no one is organizing anything," she said.

"There's no food or water, the people are becoming dehydrated.

...
Muñoz said she has been in frequent contact with the Spanish Embassy in Washington but that U.S. authorities are not permitting embassy personnel to enter New Orleans.

Muñoz, 35, is an MP from Barcelona for Spain's Socialist Party.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This just drives me crazy to hear this. What the heck is going on??

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It gets even worse if this is true. Is this government made of feelingless zombies or what? Must have happened today.

BREAKING: Sec of State Condi Rice caught buying several-thousand-dollar pair of shoes in NYC moments ago, spends last night at Broadway show!

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:03:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you joking?  After 9-11 our President told us all to go shopping.

Welcome to our universe...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:13:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pardon me, but Bull-Fucking-Shit.  There may be chaos down there, I'm not saying to storm the beaches.  But this is not confusing.  The United States government is letting, flat-out allowing, its citizens to die.

They are lying their asses off all over the media.  They did not prepare properly.  They did not respond properly.  They knew MONDAY the levee was breached and what it meant.  They have LET the situation devolve into chaos.

I know it's hard to accept.  I know no one wants to think the US has sunk this far.  But look at it.  The crucial 72 hours they did nothing.  And I'm not talking about the poor souls, the rescue and charity workers who are down there -- I'm talking about an organized response to a crisis.  

The world press didn't even know the enormity.  Our own press didn't start somewhat reporting it until Tuesday night.  Why is that?  We knew Monday the levee was breached.  We knew what that meant.  We did nothing.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 01:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have no idea what you're responding to.

What is BULL-FUCKING-SHIT?

I wrote that the response of the US gov't has been a fiasco. I have written multiple posts here saying that the disaster response deserves the utmost repudiation. The very post you're replying to says as much.

However, whether you like it or not, these are the facts on the ground. The US needs no search 7 rescue teams right now. Why? Because there are hundreds of S & R teams from all over the country in Louisiana right now. Where are these teams? Are they in New Orleans? No. They haven't been allowed to go in. In fact, a few teams have been pulled out because of the conditions. So, let me ask you again, what would the US do with foreign S 7 R teams when there are already hundreds of them down there twiddling their thumbs.

We already know that the government effed up royally by not securing things IMMEDIATELY. But that has little bearing on the situation as it stands. The facts are that they haven't secured the area, and even the most secure area (Superdome) has had to have the evacuation postponed because of violence.

So, again, what exactly is BULL-FUCKING-SHIT?

by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 01:43:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry for being overwrought -- your opinion is not bullshit and the fact that search and rescues teams can't get in isn't either.  In my anguish I put that out there and didn't make clear what it was aimed at -- the reports and excuses that this is all just chaos and that no one understood what was going on.  The whole... phoney stance that this is some unforeseen catastrophe that we're simply reacting to, dealing with as best we can.

I'm so sorry it seemed aimed at you.  It was not.

And I do think we should be getting worked up.  We cannot let them off the hook.  Even now, it is not too late to do some things.  It may not be productive for other countries to send teams, but they should be aware of what's happening here and, as a global community, denounce this.  Bring every political pressure to bear to make us do the right thing.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 01:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I completely agree with you. I am angry as well. I am also very scared about what this means for our country. I am really afraid that our government has perpetrated a great big sham and that we are not equipped to cope with the future at all. If New Orleans is a test, we have failed it miserably.
by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:14:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't speak for Izzy, but your openning line set me off until I read the rest.

I think you might both be right.

It does not appear that our own government has been able to handle the situation.  Reports from people on the ground there are they they don't have enough resources & back-up.  In all fairness they were not given a ton of time to plan for this and I'm not sure people really understood, could comprehend how bad it would be.  

Despite the fact that the US was obviously unable to deal with this disaster on its own (where is Homeland Security?  Weren't they supposed to be able to rescue people, even in the face of violence?), it does not appear to us that the International press or governments have digested, or at least acted upon, the enormity of the situation.  May be a dozen reasons for that (time, US response, politics, logistics, etc...).  Time will tell.

And yet it also does not appear that even if every government with the resources to help were to provide those resources they would have any immediate impact on the situation because of the difficulties on the ground, er, in New Orleans with lack of communications, lack of ways in or out of the city and rising violence. ... I personally have a little trouble buying that last bit.  But that's the word on the street.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:06:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry about that first line. I read the rising indignation for our relations with other countries, and our calls to put pressure on our diplomats, and I thought we were overreacting. That's why I wrote that.

As for the violence, I have academic colleagues in Baton Rouge who have given me first hand reports of wounded arriving from New Orleans. In short, I don't doubt the violence. But, it is now dawning on me that this can be used against the rescue effort. Normally, I would have made the connection right away, but I was horrified by the report from my colleague and I am in despair over it. There are 70,000-90,000 people in the city. The vast majority are good desperate people trying to get out.

by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree in principle BUT I really think the US administration should accept the Dutch offer ASAP.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=23281&name=Netherla nds+offers+US+help+with+Katrina+floods
"AMSTERDAM -- The Netherlands has offered the US authorities the services of a dike inspection team to help combat the flooding in New Orleans.
(Link from a DailyKos comment http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/9/1/111514/4471/66#66)

The team is ready to leave for America if it is required, the Dutch Ministry of Transport and Waterways said on Thursday."

An additional question...
What are you going to do with the refugees?
Specifically the people evacuated from the dome in NOLA to the Astrodome?
I mean that´s not a long term shelter.
And what about the people without money to pay for rooms?

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd like to see the dutch get down there too.

As for the refugees, many of them will be permanently resettled. The people of new Orleans are very poor as is, and it stands to reason that the great majority didn't leave because they either didn't heed warnings and offers of transport or else they never learned of the offers and were without personal transport.

The gov't and the relief services will supply housing. They will be in the Astrodome at least for several weeks. Consider, the children are already being enrolled in local Houston schools.

by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:36:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let´s hope then that they´ll accept the Dutch offer.
They are really good!

And I´m starting to get hopeful since according to Bloomberg.com they finally decided to let Vancouver's heavy urban search and rescue team into the USA.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=awhmdYLAa_1Q&refer=canada

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:17:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Detlef, by now S & R is becoming less important than getting people out of there. Thye need mass transport. At the SuperDome, there are tens of thousands. At the convention Center, there are tens of thousands. When you realize that the people have, amongst themselves, congregated, you realize that the urgent need is mass transport.
by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those are all good questions.  But it seems like right now everything is focused on getting people out of New Orleans.  Once they have either accomplished that or have given up, then they will begin to address the problems of longterm homelessness.  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:39:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I´m asking only because the German government seems to have offered prefabricated (mobile) housings already.
Don´t know how many would be available, probably only enough for a small number of people.

And I assume that the USA has a lot available too so the German ones aren´t really needed. Still I´m wondering why Texas officials talk about having people taking shelter in the Astrodome probably for weeks.
If that´s a true assessment then personally I would accept such housings from everyone who could deliver some in the next - say - 2 weeks.

Not to mention that "focusing on getting people out of New Orleans" only is totally stupid IMO.
It is the number one priority, no disagreement here.
But they really should be able to "multitask" so to speak. Rescuing people in New Orleans and elsewhere AND caring for evacuated people too. Leaving refugees stranded for days and weeks is insane!

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You have to also consider however that this is one way to keep track of the refugees and to provide them with health care. A great number of them are in poor conditions. It may take a couple of weeks just to get them up on their feet. I agree that housing needs to be found for them soon thereafter.
by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I almost said "huh" first.
Before I realized that we might be talking past each other. :)

Let´s talk about the Astrodome.
From what I´ve read the Astrodome is/was a baseball stadium? How are 10,000 or 20,000 people going to live there for weeks? Tents on the baseball field? Toilets?
Showers?

Wouldn´t it be easier to just throw gravel (is that the right word?) on a large field. Erect tents (If possible one tent per 1-2 families). Use some of those disaster teams to build/provide fresh water supply, electricity, waste water treatment and toilets/showers. Send an army mobile hospital for health care.
Wouldn´that be a better solution than the Astrodome?
And you even can "keep track of people" in these temporary camps.

Not to mention that people seriously sick should be in a hospital, not in some emergency shelter.

The one thing the Astrodome has though is air conditioning. Probably needed in Texas. Still, if you´ve got electricity...

Somehow I think the whole rescue and aid effort is horribly disorganized.
 

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 04:29:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From all reports, the Astrodome has been set up with a mobile hospital, sleeping quarters, port-a-potties, showers, mental health clinics with psychiatrists, cafeterias for food. It's a hotel without the walls, and perhaps better because of the doctors and psychologists.

Unless they are lying, this is the situation as reported.

by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 04:35:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That´s good to know!

In that case I retract all of my earlier statements. :)

I was worried because the American media coverage I could view (using the Internet) did seem to indicate a worrying lack of coordinated aid efforts.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 04:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's in new Orleans. There is no coordination. It's an embarrassment, a tragedy, a disaster. Call it what you want and it applies. Also, in Houston, they will be turning away refugees who showed up there on their own. And then there are thousands more at the convention center.
by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 05:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As in reports like this?

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory2/3334317

Incredible!

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 06:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems I might have to retract my retraction!
Unfortunately!!!

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12533177.htm
About 5,000 refugees made it by bus to Houston's Astrodome, but only 2,000 cots awaited them. Once again, thousands of people were subjected to discomfort and indignity.

If that´s true then it seems like preparations at the Astrodome weren´t as thorough as we would like them to be.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 07:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's almost like they are doing it on purpose.
by Upstate NY on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 07:20:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FYI, Someone has made tomorrow International Blogging for Disaster Relief Day.
From the Katrina Aftermath blog:

If you have a blog, here's what you can do. Sometime tomorrow, take a break from whatever it is you usually blog about, and post something constructive related to disaster relief...

For those of you outside of the US, you could post about a disaster relevant to your community. Post lists of supplies needed for victims of yesterday's stampede in Baghdad. Post an update on how your family is recovering from the tsunami. Post multi-lingual resources for African families in Paris displaced by the recent apartment fires. Blog about whatever you choose, as long as it supports some kind of disaster assistance in a constructive way.

One thing I'd discourage you from doing, though, is making this political. There will be plenty of time for recriminations about who's to blame, if anyone, for Katrina, and the political ramifications. No doubt this will be a major topic of conversation in the blogosphere, but it can wait. People need help now.

I guess those are my sentiments right now too...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:41:39 AM EST
International reaction Part II

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:26:53 PM EST
Thank you, Upstate NY and poemless for your kind replies upthread.  I apologize to everyone for being overwrought.  This is why I haven't been commenting here.  But I think that we all need to look at what is going on over here and understand it for what it is.

So what is it?  Is it a system simply overwhelmed by a disaster as they've been saying?  I don't think so.  Here's my evidence:

We knew this would happen and made no preparations.  We seemingly do not have the resources, but we're not marshalling the resources either.

We left the poor to drown and die.  We slowly took some to the SuperDome.

There has been no food and water in the SuperDome.  Why not?  Where are the supplies that should have been rushed there?

On Monday we knew the levee was breached and we knew the catastrophic consequences of that.  We did nothing.

We had no federal response until late Wednesday.

The helicopter that everyone thought was sandbagging the breach on Tuesday was not sandbagging the breach.

Monday we knew the levee was breached and all survivors would die if not evacuated.  Where were the helicopters and boats?

No one tried to plug the breach until Wednesday.

Yesterday, citizens comandeered a bus to the Astrodome -- why could they get there and official buses could not?

The statements make no sense -- if we can bus anyone out of the Superdome, why have we not gotten more buses?  why have we not gotten a truckload or two of food and water there?

Why is there no radio contact?  Where are the food drops?  Why are military helicopters sitting waiting?  Why are they denying the reports of being shot at?  Why is there no communication?  Why are we not opening hotels and motels to evacuaees?

We have done nothing.  We've left a few local people to deal with this with no assistance.  We're telling other countries and municipalities that they can't help.  We let the crucial 72 hour window slip by and are now sending troops to deal with the chaos we let happen.

I don't know what all this means or what to do, but it's not right.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:36:27 PM EST
As I said in response to Frans note about the Spanish politician, who has been stuck in New Orleans as a tourist...what is going on? Is no one taking control of this situation? What happened to crisis planning? this is downright spooky to me...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 02:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Me, too.  I'm scared.  They're doing nothing to help.  Martial law has been declared in I don't know how many areas, but huge chunks of three of our most impoverished states.  The military us/them attitude is taking root throughout.

The racial divide in this country has never been more on display, right down to calling white people "victims who found food" to calling black people "looters."  The wingnuts are already fomenting every kind of despicable racist, classist deplorable bullshit on the radio and blogs.

How long before a Pat Robertson makes national news saying some vile, racist statement?  if we're on a war footing with New Orleans and the refugees, how long before this explodes in the inner-cities?

We are in desperate, desperate need of leadership right now.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 03:11:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
very scary...and very, very sad...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 04:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The second charity listed as a preferred donation site by FEMA, after the Red Cross, is Pat Robertson's Operation Blessing. In all fairness it rates highly in terms of program expenses versus administration expenses...even so, it's high listing by FEMA seems a little hinky.
by northsylvania on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 09:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
TomPaine has this to say about Operation Blessing, which makes support of Church by State at a time like this even more peculiar.
http://tinyurl.com/2491
Disaster profiteering indeed.
by northsylvania on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Federal authorites caught unprepared by disaster (FT)

 (...)

But Mr Bush acknowledged that authorities had not been prepared for the catastrophe. As efforts continued to evacuate the flood-stricken city, which has been wracked by looting and other crime, Mr Bush said: "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

(...)

For a country that has spent the four years since September 11 preparing for another major terrorist attack, the failure to prevent or mitigate such an enormous natural disaster is likely to set off fresh debate.

Emergency management officials in Louisiana had warned for years that New Orleans would be unable to withstand such a big hurricane, but funding for plans to strengthen the levees and prevent floods has fallen by nearly half in the past four years.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 04:58:03 PM EST
You might want to update!

According to Fox News :) the following countries or organisations have offered assistance:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168203,00.html

Boats, aircraft, tents, blankets, generators, cash assistance and medical teams have been offered to the U.S. government in Washington or in embassies overseas.

Offers have been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States, the spokesman said.

And that article even included:
Still, Bush told ABC-TV: "I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we hadn't asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country's going to rise up and take care of it."

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 06:52:18 PM EST
Decided to sample a bit of the forum over at Gazeta Wyborcza. Now GW happens to be a left-liberal (Euro sense) paper of generally excellent quality. The forum threads have a tendency to draw lots of racists because GW is the paper Polish racists love to hate, seeing it as the mouthpiece of the Jewish-liberal-masonic conspiracy to destroy the world. The forum's quality also tends to be of very poor quality. That said, even by the standards of the forum the scale of vicious racism is just stunning. Sweet god these people sound like some redneck Klan members.  
The actual articles are pretty standard accounts of the unfolding horror. No real commentary.

Rzeczpospolita (right-liberal) Poland's other good quality newspaper praises Bush, slams Dem critics, the liberal media, and not so subtly indulges in attacks against blacks 'who need no reason' to riot. Yuck.
Bush po huraganie

by MarekNYC on Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 12:14:51 AM EST


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