European Tribune

ET Non-English Census

by DoDo
Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 05:24:47 AM EST

Promoted by Colman.

Following up ManfromMiddletown's proposal, a query to every diary poster, commenter, and lurker: what languages other than English could you read diaries in?

We'd like at least to establish the potential readership of a diary (or even just a quote within a diary) posted in French, German, Spanish, Italian, Russian or Polish ... but others too.


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Display:
I start -

  • Hungarian
  • German
  • (French)
  • ((((Spanish))))

(I could understand a diary in Spanish if it is on railways :-))

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 04:30:20 PM EST
Oh, and:

*(((((((((((((((Russian)))))))))))))))

...because I can read Cyrillic, but would have to re-learn every word except basic numbers, thanks, truth and Ded Moroz.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 04:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Finnish
Elementary Swedish
Schoolboy French (though my pronunciation has been commended)
Textese

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 04:37:32 PM EST
Spanish

I know a little bit of French, German, and Italian.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 04:37:42 PM EST
I'd stick with French.  (I think anything in Russian would be too exclusive at this point.)

Isn't French one of the official languages of the EU, anyhow?  

And note, there are translating programs out there, so that if one doesn't know the language of a diary, on can still attempt to participate.  And maybe even pick us some new vocabulary along the way!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 04:49:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(Wasn't meant in response to Man from Middletown.  I'm all for Spanish too.)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 04:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is not a vote on what should be there - this is a census :-)

Just give every language you could read an article in.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 04:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reading an article in, and having a discussion in ... 2 sep. things there!  

But I wouldn't necessarily let not knowing a language keep me from reading/participating.  :)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
French.

Would make valiant attempt to read :

Spanish
Catalan
Italian.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 04:57:17 PM EST
French. Though I couldn't possibly comment on it in French.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:10:41 PM EST
Est-ce qu'il est difficile de grogner en français? :-)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Le snark, sûrement.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 05:23:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
pas du tout, je suis spécialiste.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 09:12:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
German
French
Italian

(Spanish)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:13:02 PM EST
anche io
ich auch
moi aussi.

read and comment.

(I can't do bullet point as beautifully as you do, so I pirate your answer)

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.

by lacordaire on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:44:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
French (read & write)& could read some Spanish & some German commenting in those languages would have to allow for terrible grammar, wrong cases, some wrong genders and some inventive franco/english phrasing.
 
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:16:41 PM EST
Merci!

BTW, how do you know Slovakia so well? As tourist, or longer time there? If the latter, do you speak a little?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:18:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My husband grew up in what used to be Czechoslovakia and has worked, as a sideline, with libraries in both counties for several years. There also happen to be several Czech & Slovak students I've meet who were studying in the US. I've been to the Czech republic a few times but not to Slovakia. Nevertheless, my knowledge is still limited.
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:29:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh I guess if I added Chinese I could add ((((((((((((Czech)))))))))))))))) but really I don't think that would count and I certainly couldn't read or comment on a post in Czech or Slovak.
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:32:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess following Dodo's lead I could add (((((((((((Mandarin Chinese))))))))))))*

* what remains of several years of study are words like library, hello, friend, where are you going?

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:22:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Français
Italiano
Volapük (EU version)

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:17:56 PM EST
and langue de bois...


"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:20:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
langue de bois et lurking c'est un peu la meme chose non?

(tansl: a wood tongue -someone who doesn't say anyting- and lurking are somewhat similar no?)

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Non: langue de bois = language that is used by politicians to give out the least information and to repeat platitudes. "I have the utmost respect for Jacques Chirac, who is a major politician, and this new initiative certainly deserves to be discussed and examined further... blablabla"

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 05:36:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Langue de bois ... or the art of saying nothing. A good politician's speech can be stripped of its langue de bois and what you end up with when you do that, is generally something along the lines of "Ask me again in a few days".

Here's another example:

Press: "Mr Prime Minister, what can you tell us about the current status of budget discussions in Brussels right now?

Prime Minister: "We are currently making progress and are confident that more progress will be made yet and that our objectives will be met with an overall sense of achieving progress through our progressive objectives".

by Alex in Toulouse on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:27:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes I guess the comparison is a bit of stretch. While in both cases nothing gets said, lurking doesn't give the illusion of saying something.
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 09:33:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is better to be silent and be thought an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt

Mark Twain



A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 09:35:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Spanish
Italian
French
German
(((Danish)))

In a previous life I studied Danish for two years.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:18:28 PM EST
Participate:
French
Russian

Read:
Spanish
Ukrainian
Greek

by slaboymni on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:22:22 PM EST
In French , English or Spanish I'm capable of participating.

In Italian I should understand most of what is being said, though I'll miss out on the finer details ... I will anyhow be able to attempt to write some comments by adding "-tti", "-tto" and "-tta" endings to French words. (manger? mangeretta!)

About the same for Portugese.

In Russian you'll say something but I'll read something else. But I will be able to handle the basics and might  be able to write a few grammatically incorrect comments.

In Sinhala regardless of what you write I'll always answer by cursing, singing, and ordering booze. It's a fantastic language to do these things in ... hardly any grammar in the spoken form ... no tense, no determiners ... oh wait, no, it's because that's all I ever did over there :))

In Arabic I'll be able to read but won't have a clue what you're talking about without a dictionary. I'll be able to make one or two comments about the colour of my pencil and should be able to say that Rachida is from Lebanon and studies in Paris, and a few other sentences I've never forgotten.

by Alex in Toulouse on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:25:15 PM EST
My language-über-talent sister is currently studying Arabic (her amateur teacher is an immigrant from Jordan).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is "my sister is learning Arabic":

"Ukht' attakalamou'l 'a'rabiyaa"

(to get the accent: slam tongue on cheeks, make guttural noises, make contortionist figures with face)

ps: kudos to your sister, I wish I hadn't given up on Arabic when I did

by Alex in Toulouse on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:37:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Masha'allah. Just don't tell her she'll need an equivalent of two or three German vocabularies for it... Some things are easier to take when learned the hard way.
by marcabru (no@spam.com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 08:10:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
French.  I would struggle, but it might be interesting.  l'argot, peut-etre une probleme.

but it might be fun to have some occassional french diaries.  Would we be the first multi-lingual blog?  probably not;

by wchurchill on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:33:10 PM EST
A multi-lingual blog would attract a great deal of attention. It is an open question whether you want all the attention from people whose primary interest is linguistics, etc.
by melvin on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 07:49:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is an open question whether you want all the attention from people whose primary interest is linguistics, etc.

I guess, studying in a linguistics department, this is my direct area of expertise.

The answer is no.

:-)

by marcabru (no@spam.com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 08:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Norwegian bokmål
Norwegian nynorsk
Swedish
Danish
French (with some strain)
German (with more strain)

The world's northernmost desert wind.
by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:36:07 PM EST
I would hesistate to comment in any non-English language these days as I am out of practice in a big way, but I might just manage some simple banter in French.

I would read (in descending competence):

French
German
(((Spanish)))
(((((((Dutch)))))))

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:42:56 PM EST
French (duh! = évidemment)
Spanish (not writing it)
Russian (not writing it)
I used to understand German, but it's too rusty now
I got to be able to read Ukrainian, but that's probably gone now.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:54:04 PM EST
I'm fluent in Okie and Murkan, and passable in English.

Long ago in another life I was fluent in Spanish, but I'm afraid my skills have atrophied from lack of use.  I think I could still get by, and the practice would be good for me.

Two semesters of college French and one of German have long since dissipated on the winds of time, but I would find it an interesting challenge to try to follow along.  I wonder if I still have those college texts around here somewhere.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.

by budr on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 05:56:44 PM EST
spanish
catalan
italian (never studied but catalan and spanish are enough)
german (so-so)

A pleasure


I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 06:00:46 PM EST
I should add Catalan and Portuguese to my list... And Galician I suppose.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 06:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you know three latin languages you know them all...
catalan and spanish are enough for italian, portuguese and galician..but nor for all french.

French and spanish is also probably enough...

I should have added portuguese and galician to the list...

I did not know you spoke catalan!!! How is it your slang? Can you follow slang catalan????

just wondering.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 06:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are forgetting Romanian...

And I can't handle spoken Portuguese.

I don't speak Catalan. I read it. I interpolate between Spanish, French and Italian.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 06:21:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I meant to say that you probably forget Romanian because one needs an Slavic language in order to interpolate it.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:48:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A little English, a bit less Polish, and a very little Spanish.

Do not feel safe. The poet remembers.
Czeslaw Milosz
by Chris Kulczycki on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 06:16:31 PM EST
The family joke about my father was that he could make himself misunderstood in seven languages. If only I was so talented.

Do not feel safe. The poet remembers.
Czeslaw Milosz
by Chris Kulczycki on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 06:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hehehe that's a good one Chris

There is a figure in one of the Corto Maltese books who's excellent in this respect. He learns one sentence in 20+ languages. And this sentence is something like "I am pretending that I can speak this language, please play along with me so that I can impress this girl here" (note: or something like that). And everyone always plays along with him ..

by Alex in Toulouse on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 06:28:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Scandinavian languages
Finnish (swear words only)
Some German
Less French and Spanish (reading an entry would be a struggle)
by ask on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 07:02:29 PM EST
Uhm, Dutch?

Will read:
German
Spanish
(will attempt to read) French

Will participate in:
Dutch
Spanish (since I REEEEEEEEALLY want to learn Spanish, and particpation is the only way to get there)

by Nomad on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 07:24:51 PM EST
French

Spanish with effort and good dictionary.

by Ben P (wbp@u.washington.edu) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 07:28:48 PM EST
How do you get your keyboard to do accents, etc.?
by Ben P (wbp@u.washington.edu) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 07:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Start, accesories, system tools, character map.

Better, html here, for one. I have a better one at home. Google "special characters html."

by melvin on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 07:46:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Start"? Surely you mean "Apple menu"!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 05:38:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Norwegian for reading, don't expect up to date spelling. But that doesn't do much for ET for obvious reasons.

Limp along pretty well in Spanish, but it's American infested Spanglish, so doesn't help much either. Would really appreciate the example of fine Castilliano. Again, maybe not so helpful.

In Russian, etc. could diarists attempt a precis in English maybe? Eyes on this diary actually, it is interesting. I have no idea how many people even read here.

by melvin on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 07:39:07 PM EST
Norwegians seem to be 'over-represented' on this site.  I am aware of at least 4-5 that post here with some regularity (including myself, though I've been an ex-pat for close to 20 years).
by ask on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 09:05:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some Spanish.  I know enough to sound fluent, but not enough to sound smart.  Or native to Spain.  And my pronunciation is flawless.
by DH from MD on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 07:53:17 PM EST
Write
  • French
  • (Spanish)
Read
  • French
  • Spanish
  • (Italian)
  • (German)
  • (((Japanese)))
Can we try Latin and Ancient Greek?

Facts, selfish little bastards. They don't even care about your feelings.
by Francois in Paris on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 08:01:53 PM EST
Well, maybe not Polish. Slavic languages are sadly harder to get for free than Romance, or even Germanic. I was pleasantly surprised at how much formal Scandinavian writing you can understand exactly after mapping some correspondences to German roots and prefixes (didn't work so well for Icelandic, though). But Slavic is just too fertile with the recombinatorial almost-understanding.
by marcabru (no@spam.com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 08:07:27 PM EST
Sadly, I speak only some forms of English, but maybe we should try Esperanto!

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 08:11:10 PM EST
English - my de facto first language
Polish - my first language in the literal sense
French - second half of childhood language

I can read those three at the level of an educated native speaker. My writing skills in French are rusty and I never formally learned how to write in Polish but as long as people don't mind a few mistakes, no problem.

German - I can read news or scholarly stuff without any problem. Literary stuff, particularly anything older, nice to have a dictionary around. Writing - I can do it but it'll probably look a bit funny.

Russian - I can read news or scholarly stuff if I have to, but it's slow and painful. (three years of Russian, half forgotten, plus the cognates with Polish).

Once read an article in Czech - extremely painful as in ten minutes a page, wear out the dictionary, bad headache.  The same would probably be true of Ukrainian, Slovak, and Belarussian.

by MarekNYC on Wed Jan 11th, 2006 at 08:47:36 PM EST
I can read in:

Spanish
Portuguese
French (with a dictionary)
Russian

by Yugo Chavez on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 01:39:48 AM EST
Welcome to ET, Yugo!

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:46:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome! Good to have you on the board. Since this is mostly an European forum, you can keep wearing your shoes.

No disrespect to the Japanese, of course.

by Nomad on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:19:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Czech have a habit of taking their shoes off whenever they enter a home, and can be quite fastidious about it ;-)

You would actually expect that to be the case wherever it tends to get slushy-muddy outside in the winter, which includes most of Europe.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:23:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed, for me the feeling of being a hick won't go away when someone allows me to keep shoes on in their home - tough that has kind of become the ruling custom by now. Still, in Hungary, a lot of people even keep guest slippers.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:29:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I picked up the habit in Russia and find it keeps my floors remarkably clean! (Now if I could just get the cat to stop shedding...)  

But I still cannot bring myself to ask some guests to take their shoes off...  A definite cultural boundry there.  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 12:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, not just winter-slushy-muddy - also regions that are dusty (mostly in summer). This is true for the low-lying regions of Hungary. I wonder, is most of Spain not dusty too? (Was never there, only guessing from the climate and vegetation)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:32:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ich kann deutsch.
Weird that I can understand French, especially spoken with a Quebecois accent, but reading it is more difficult, and you'd not see me posting a comment. Never studied the language, but worked in New England in bi-lingual shops.
I can follow an article in Spanish or (with more difficuly) Italian but wouldn't consider a comment.
 

Think this through with me, let me know your mind.
Hunter/Garcia
by epcraig (epcraigatgmaildotcom) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 03:04:51 AM EST
Welcome to ET, EP!

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:47:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome aboard!
by Nomad on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:28:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
German is my only other functional language

... leider

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 03:12:17 AM EST
Same for me. German.

(I suppose I could try to do something about my almost totally forgotten French though...)

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 10:09:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm learning to read German now...but far to go
Know many Spanish words from childhood...but very sketchy...

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!
by whataboutbob on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 04:05:42 AM EST
  1. French
  2. I can say "I love you" in German, Italian, Korean and Chinese, whenever it helps.


I will become a patissier, God willing.
by tuasfait on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 04:48:47 AM EST
It always helps!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 05:40:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose you speak your mother tongue, too? ;-)

(Or was that the missing 2. ?)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:29:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. French
  2. will try to read,  but not write in, Spanish if fascinated by topic.

Cheers
by Guillaume on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:15:54 AM EST
Besides English only German, sorry.

Could read Russian (and might even understand some words).

Am trying to learn Bangla, though ;-) (my brother-in-law is from Bangladesch).

_______________________________________________

"Those who fight might lose, those who don't fight have already lost." - Berthold Brecht

by RavenTS on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:40:22 AM EST
BTW, Colman, thanks for a little html lesson :-)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:43:06 AM EST
Which one?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 06:47:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The one on how to do it shorter than with a span tag and style attributes...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:05:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, ((*comment blah blah blah)) will give

blah blah blah

now, which is even shorter.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:11:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Without the * after the ((
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:12:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Got that! Thanks for the second lesson :-)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:16:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can participate in

  • English
  • German

Can read/decipher

  • French
  • Swedish
by Saturday (geckes(at)gmx.net) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 07:47:23 AM EST
english
german
spanish
french with some difficulty
portuguese with some difficulty
hollandese with difficulty
plattdeutsch *)
schwitzerdütsch *)
viennese *) +)

*) count as languages because there exist written literary works published in these variants of the german language
+) whether viennese is to be considered a dialect of german or a language in its own right is debatable as it draws from many more cultural roots thsn just the german influence

i have in the past also tried to learn russian, croatian, hebrew, modern greek and mapudungun but with limited success. diaries and postings in more languages than english can only be beneficial and will help to strengthen the "european" character of this site.

by name (name@spammez_moi_sivouplait.org) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 08:23:48 AM EST
Ah go away! :-)

Against your list, I can only brag with my sister's list:

  • Hungarian
  • German (multiple variants)
  • English
  • Italian
  • French
  • (Spanish)
  • ((Arabic))
  • (((Dutch)))
  • traces of Russian, Turkish, modern Greek
  • wants to start Mandarin (for a backpack vacation)

(...and my late "languages-R-my-hobby" grandfather's list would be much longer, but I couldn't list even half of the 28)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 10:40:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
whether viennese is to be considered a dialect of german or a language in its own right is debatable

According to a relative who lives near Vienna, viennese is even harder to understand and learn than Schwitzerdütsch. My visit to Vienna a week ago gave further proofs of his claim :-) I just can't understand how Hungarian aristocrats with their basic Plattdeutsch1 could make themselves understood in the imperial capital during the Monarchy.

  1. German is still barely the number one second language in Hungary, but most people don't speak and aren't thaught the Hochdeutsch version - the most noticeable difference is in the pronouncement of the 'ei' vovel combination.


*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 10:46:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to a relative who lives near Vienna, viennese is even harder to understand and learn than Schwitzerdütsch.

that is also my experience. i first grew up in vorarlberg (across the rhine-valley near liechtenstein) and viennese is my second dialect, i came here in my 20's and viennese was a cultural shock for somebody who normally speaks Hochdeutsch. In the meantime i understand and even speak it, but i'll always be identified as somebody who is not from here, "an zuagrasta" as they say here.

the thing with viennese is that it is not "pure" german (if there is such a thing) like schwytzerdütsch, which is essentially the german of 300 years ago plus localisms, but that it takes words and sounds from many other languages in the former monarchy and across europe: hungarian, french, english, turkish, slavic languages, yiddish, spanish, and even german. it thells the story of the peoples who have been coming to this city for centuries.

by name (name@spammez_moi_sivouplait.org) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 11:53:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only some limited English and German (MT) I am afraid

greatest regret, no French and no Spanish - will at somepoint hopefully

(had latin and greek at school and hebrew at University - no great help here...)

by PeWi on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 08:30:39 AM EST
French
English
Spanish
(Italian)
(German)
by Edouard (edouard@salebetedeletethis.net) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 08:31:45 AM EST
In French, English, Polish and German I am capable of participating and making proper translations if necessary.
I can read and understand pretty well Spanish, and, to a lesser extent, Czech.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 09:15:57 AM EST
I can read & comment in French & Spanish, and can read, if sufficiently motivated, most Germanic, Scandinavian, and Romance languages. Slavic languages or those written in non-Latin orthographies are more of a problem. I cannot speak or understand Fourchelangue.

Personally, I think that if a story or comment is sufficiently important, the language it is written in is secondary. That said, it appears that articles written in languages other than English should at least have a brief summary in English.

Greg Shenaut

by gshenaut on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 09:32:16 AM EST
... but I'd rather avoid the horrible italian political scene, with such poor "debates" as to be completely empty of any idea whatsoever.
by toyg (g.lacava@gmail.com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 11:08:02 AM EST
French
by corncam on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 11:09:50 AM EST
My high-school and college french is not still with me after all these years except in very elementary form.  But my husband is a citizen of Germany and could translate the German postings to me.

Karen in Austin

p.s. when we fulfill our dream of living on a barge in Europe, I'll get my French up to speed.

Thence comes our true nobility by grace, It was not willed us with our rank and place. Chaucer

by Wife of Bath (bakerswife13@yahoo.com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 11:39:45 AM EST
Greek
by Greco on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 12:34:10 PM EST
Whenever I catch a first comment I say "welcome to ET" but you're user number 175...

Talk about lurking ;-)

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 12:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Try checking the comments including the archive ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 12:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aaahhh... <blush>

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 12:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Made the same mistake with epcraig upthread.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 01:08:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
was the first person ever (and still the only identified one, apart from pokeronline) to post a comment on my first blog in May 2004, so please be respectful!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 02:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have recidivistic foot-in-mouth disease, as you know.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 02:19:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. French
  2. Rusty German (Ich war ein Berliner...)


Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 04:11:31 PM EST
fluent in english, french, italian, understand german and spanish.

would prefer we stick to english, as i feel we need to master one language for better euro understanding, while enjoying others for charm, philology, linguistics and etymology.

and as for italian politics, the reasons stated above for not having more diaries on the subject are the same ones that make me crave more.

the darker the pit, the more light needed!

special props to hannah and degondi for the kind of view i can never find here, and to jerome for his superb english.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 05:41:28 PM EST
I could read diaries and comments in

German
Dutch
English
Italian
French
Spanish
Frisian (Stadsfries)
Haitian Creole
Miskito (colloquial)
Ladino

"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 08:00:39 PM EST
Sure it would be great to read an article in Yiddish and Letzebuergisch (national language of Luxemburg since 1980)once in a while!



"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 08:25:48 PM EST
can read:  french, german if not too technical

can guess/read/skim:  italian, spanish

language skills too rusty to participate in discussion by writing other than in my native tongue (english), I am embarrassed to say.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Jan 12th, 2006 at 08:31:36 PM EST
Ah! A long-time lurker at last decides to post! Hallelujah!

;)

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 13th, 2006 at 03:17:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can read and comment in Greek.

Can read French and Spanish.

If my life depended on it I could read something not too technical in Italian.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Jan 13th, 2006 at 09:43:12 AM EST
Actually, puedo comentar en espanol muy poco - pero no se como poner el ~ sobre la n en rtf, !o el ' sobre el o en como!

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Jan 13th, 2006 at 09:53:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I use &ntilde; and &oacute;. When using plain text (e.g. e-mail), I do ~n and 'o. Crude but effective.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 13th, 2006 at 09:59:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To show &ntilde; you need to type &amp;ntilde, and so on recursively. It gets cumbersome, but shipping a PC keyboard from a Spanish-speaking country is more expensive and polluting.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 13th, 2006 at 10:14:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ñ ó

Gracias!

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Jan 13th, 2006 at 12:07:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
French
by liz (lizbryant_at_yahoo_dot_com) on Tue Jan 31st, 2006 at 10:42:17 AM EST
English
Portuguese
Greek
by Euroliberal on Tue Jan 31st, 2006 at 11:58:52 AM EST


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