Well, it does seem to have achieved something, because it's produced a clear position from one person, that is quite probably shared by others. Whereas, imho, we have talked about this for long enough without anyone really coming down on one side or the other. So pitching in and trying it has no doubt been useful, in a litmus kind of way (which was part of my intention).

Here's what I wrote on the Open Thread:

...During our discussions, I've always felt the tension between the usefulness of reaching out and interesting Europeans, and the danger of segmenting ET into little language/national corners where sub-groups of users spend their time. That's why, if the overall feeling is that we should just stay in English, I'll abide by that and no problem. The last thing we want is little national groups forming -- and as for attracting new users, I think it's fair to say (without insulting anyone) that we want to interest people who will at least read the English content of the site, at best join in comments, therefore bilingual people (apologies to mono-lingual anglophones who are obviously also welcome (yes, Bob, and Izzy, oh my gawd, don't feel marginalized..!).

So I think I'm saying I wouldn't want to change the present structure much in order to create language corners or permanent open threads, though once again, if a strong demand for that were to surface, fine.

<snip>

I suggest we need another try or two, in other languages now. This will only work if enough people want to do it, after all.

IMHO

So my position is we go on trying this out to see how people feel after a few different-language diaries. Let me add that there's no question in my mind about English being the main language here, and that people need to at least read it, at best read/write it, to participate.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

Therefore, any site that wants to have things that are read by the largest set of people it aims for, should use English.

However, mixing up languages in one forum is just plain stupid. It's chaotic and it drives people away.

Now, if the ET had entire sub-forums for languages (i.e. all that you'd see on the frontpage was a link saying <discussions in language X>, linking to seperate forums (seperate diary lists, separate recommended lists, etc), then that would be fine.

However, with the way that ET is set up right now, using Scoop, using multiple languages is a really bad idea.

• One of the things the EU wants to promote is multilingualism of individuals. I fully support that, and feel it would be good if ET could promote the same.

• A lot of Europeans do not speak English, or speak it so bad they couldn't comment or write a diary - they are automatically excluded. But as ET has a lofty goal of becoming Europe's dKos, attracting a wider audience would be a boon.

• I see my idea of how to become multilingual goes against the ideas of many other people here, but I will state it and argue for it anyway, see if I get responses. What I wouldn't want is a segmentation of ET into separate language groups - what I imagine is a 'mosaic community', where multilingual people are the interconnection between discussions in various languages. For that reason, I wouldn't like a strict separation by languages - at most in the recommended diary list.

• In my version, technically everyone would be 'excluded' from a part of ET discussions. However, keeping comments threads multilingual would allow people to simply ask for a translation (which could even help those who are just in the process of learning the dominant language of the diary).

• On the other hand, you (and PlutoniumPage) called my attention to the situation of those who got used to the present, English-only, neither segmented nor mosaic community. Bob, you wrote that you already have "a hard time with understanding a number of the converstations going on here in English, due to the technical or highly specific intellectual content". Well, you're not alone :-) and starting from this, I suggest an alternative way to look at it. I do skip a number of diaries because it's over my head, or not my interest, or I don't have the (especially emotional, humour) talent to comment, or (as often with Fran's Breakfast diaries) I came too late for the party - and the view I want to share is that this is already a similar kind of exclusion from the group, but only partial, from my viewpoint we are already kind of a mosaic community.

The second point I want to make is that it is exclusionary when a bilingual, given the choice, uses his/her own native language. The most effective way to break the ice is to address others, however haltingly, in their native language. The most effective way to erect a barrier is to write with virtuosity in your own. This does not apply to monolinguals for obvious reasons. Afew, after all, is not a native French speaker so his diary was totally ok. You won't see me diarying in Spanish either, but maybe Alex could.

The third and last point (and I hope Bob will forgive my bluntness even if others won't) is that, unless I am completely missing the meaning of Bob's analogy, this

But my feeling is that if there begins to be several discussions in several languages, what's the connection? Where's the communication between people? Where's the community? I have a strong feeling the result will be a breaking down and a dilution of the community feel. There's a parallel process to the EU process...the National vs the Pan-European. And I personally don't feel comfortable with conversations going on where I don't understand the discussion...it feels excluding and exclusive.

I believe this is the end of my lunch break...

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I'm sorry Ollie, I didn't mean to do it...

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