Palestinian Vote - "indicates crushing victory for Hamas"

by whataboutbob Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 08:31:51 AM EST

3rd Update: 26-1-06; 14:21 MET. Courtesy kcurie's urgings and references:

By Amos Harel, Arnon Regular and Amira Hass, Haaretz Correspondents: Unofficial results in the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council indicate a crushing victory for Hamas, which seems to have garnered an absolute parliamentary majority after cleaning up in almost every constituency. (...) Final votes announced tonight at 7:00.

I concur with our Mr. kcurie...this is big news. Go to bottom of the thread, where kcurie has given more details of unofficial voting results so far.

2nd Update: 26-1-06, @ 12:42 MET; BBC has this: Who is Hamas? It looks like Hamas has won. Now what happens?

(From last night): This is a news item, but noteworthy and worth a watch (and I will take some snippets from the longer BBC Online article):

High turnout in Palestinian poll

Voting has been brisk, with turnout at 73%, the election commission said. In the West Bank, 70.6% voted, while in Gaza the figure was 76.8%.
Observers say the elections were peaceful, and one EU official said the vote was an example to the Arab world.

More snippets below...

Update [2006-1-26 4:38:14 by Jerome a Paris]: Bumped by Jérôme. PM Amhed Qorei has just announced his resignation and said that Hamas should form the new government.

Unofficial exit polls suggest militant group Hamas performed well, polling in excess of 30% compared with more than 40% for the ruling Fatah party. But correspondents say the electoral system makes predicting results an almost impossible art.(...)
The atmosphere has been described as festive, with campaign flags, posters and hooting vehicles competing for attention around polling stations. Some party activists in Gaza have been decorating their cars with red carnations as if for a wedding.(...)
Both Fatah and Hamas say they are confident of victory but, with polls suggesting little between them, both have said they will consider a coalition if there is no clear winner. Full results are not expected for another two weeks.(...)
Mr Abbas said he was ready to start peace talks with Israel even if Hamas joined the government.
"We are partners with the Israelis. They don't have the right to choose their partner. But if they are seeking a Palestinian partner, this partner exists," he said.
Hamas' participation in the elections has caused serious concern in Israel, the US and Europe, where it is banned as a terrorist organisation.

Hamas does not recognise Israel and has launched hundreds of attacks against its citizens.(...)
The BBC's James Reynolds, in Jerusalem, says there is real excitement among Palestinians who have waited a long time to pick their parliament.
The election, which has been repeatedly delayed, is the first since 1996.

Man, I don't even know where to start with this issue...but I congratulate the Palestinian people on their vote, and hope I they get what they need, as soon as possible...for if the Palestinian issue could be put to rest, a lot of things could be defused.<imho>

Palestinian Vote - "indicates crushing victory for Hamas" | 59 comments (49 topical, 10 editorial, 0 hidden)

Exit polls (none / 0)

unreliable. They are using a new statistical method as yet untried anywhere else reliably

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 04:48:54 PM EST

Re: Exit polls (none / 0)

So what IF Hamas wins? How's that gonna work? Does that bring Hamas in from the cold? Do they have to change their tune and say they will exist with Israel?
Somehow I suspect they won't win outright, but it may be a coalition...and again, that will be interesting...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 05:14:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exit polls (none / 0)

It is still intractable. Israel wont deal with Hamas, whose leader today reaffirmed that he would never recognize Israel.

The fact is that Hamas have worked diligently in a massive social role to bring amenities to people, while the Fatah warlords worried about dividing up the graft as if it were a pension for their earlier work.

While they are doing this, Hamas are converting people to their cause because there are visible benefits (often in a short time) that the people can grasp and feel they are moving forward. This has never happened for them before.

In a purely amoral military strategy sense, Hamas - in continuing their violent campaign - is probably doing the right long term thing. Brutal though Israeli retaliation has been, it would have to reach a level of brutality to work against Palestine, that it would not be sustainable even for Bush & Co.

So Hamas knows, that Israel knows, That Hamas knows, that Israel can never suppress the Palestinian identity. They all know. Hamas can't win either - so they just make it as difficult for the Israel as possible, while continuing their main strategy - which is to really build a functioning state both on the ground and in the minds of the people. They can then endure for another 50 years - at which time there will be a hell of a lot more of them.

And I don't care what keywords get sucked up by the NSA. Bring it on!

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 05:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

And how is the EU going to respond to Hamas?

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 05:16:27 PM EST

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

I think you'll find that EU support will follow roughly Iraq war lines. That is - Bush will be against Hamas (and probably cause another blunder) and Iraq allies will follow. But expect different voices, especially from Scandinavia + Finland (yes, Sirocco, I heard you)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 05:37:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When Bush comes to shove (none / 0)

I just thought of that, but I have a horible feeling it is not original

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 05:38:35 PM EST

BTW Bob (none / 0)

I can see you are running out of diaries to front page, so I have a suggestion.

Write a series of intriguing diary titles. Then go into the archives and get out a few thousand old comments. Jumble them all up and assign them in blocks of 30 or so per invented diary title. Write a short enigmatic line as the substance of the diary.

Then front page all incoming real diaries, replacing them with your faux diaries. Voilà! Problem solved.

You will excuse the intrusion of French into this comment, but English eats other people's words much like a hungry dog in a rubbish dump ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 05:45:53 PM EST

As an example (none / 0)

A diary title: The Ultraterrestrial Threat

as the entire diary: What's your take?

And then a long thread of disjointed comments from Colman, Migeru and Izzy. all taken from different old diaries.

I could read that one for hours, probably add a few comments myself.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 05:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As an example (none / 0)

It would work much better if you simply left my comments alone and used Sven's.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 06:07:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

William Burroughs aka Bob (none / 0)

Would never cut up my comments 8-p

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 07:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey Babelfish really works (none / 0)

It will translate a whole page with one click... our problem is solved,

Translate a webpage

Here's Migeru in Dutch:

Het zou veel beter werken als u eenvoudig mijn commentaren alleen verliet en Sven gebruikte.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 07:23:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Recommendation (none / 0)

If the Babelfish ad currently on this page is not permanent, the webpage translator can be added permanently. And it's free. Admin's please note

Here's the information

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 07:27:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Recommendation (none / 0)

It is permanent.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 05:18:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Babelfish really works (none / 0)

Which part of

It would work much better if you simply left my comments alone

did you not understand, Sven?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 05:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Babelfish really works (none / 0)

I rather imagine he though you were joking.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 05:17:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You should know by now (none / 0)

That I am the inveterate joker and teaser. Do I really have to put a ;-) in my signature?

And, of course, the humourless are my prime targets.

Lighten up there all you polymaths!

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:26:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You should know by now (none / 0)

Targeting the "humourless" may be entertaining for you but it's hardly helpful. A little self-restraint please?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:31:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are right (none / 0)

of course - it is an ego clash.

But if you put up a poll to ascertain whether my humour adds entertainment value to ET, I think you might find it was appreciated by some.

This again refers back to the need for an understanding of the spirit in which comments are made, which we have been discussing here.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:39:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are right (none / 0)

My life is not a popularity contest, Sven. You win.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:40:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are right (none / 0)

Sure - I appreciate it - but when you know it's not appreciated by others don't target it at them. I get into trouble for inappropriate humour as well.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:43:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are right (none / 0)

Sven doesn't know the difference between laughing with people and at them.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:44:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are right (none / 0)

Humour - especially written - is very subjective. Some people are more inclined to interpret it as being laughing at them than others. Varies from culture to culture as well. Some nations tend to be more serious than others - many of the Americans I've known have found the Irish tendency to mix less serious stuff into serious conversations very confusing.

I still have no idea how a lot of German humour works. Why are lederhosen, accordians and slapstick funny on stage?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:48:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are right (none / 0)

I agree - the cultural references have to be understood.

There are some things though, that have been funny since the Stone Age. I was on an expedition up the Xingu River in the Matto Grosso with the great explorers the Villas Boas brothers and 25 local tribesmen. All we had to eat, most of the time, was rice and beans. As we all know, Beanz Meanz Fartz.

Come 1800 when the Indians slipped into their hammocks under a roof of leaves, there would follow quite a few minutes of trumping and muffled laughter before they settled down. ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 08:12:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh come on Migeru! (none / 0)

Lighten up! It makes you live longer, and that's scientifically proven.

by Nomad on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 08:44:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh come on Migeru! (none / 0)

Whom the Gods Love Die Young — Herodotus

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 09:04:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

I think this will be a good thing. First, obviously, we need to see what the real results of the election are. But it opens another door, for the people and the leaders of Palestine to work out a realistic position regarding Israel. If Hamas takes control, and decides to continue with a policy of intention to destroy Israel, the bad times will continue. Obviously Israel will not negotiate with the man that says "as soon as I get a gun to your head I will pull the trigger". That is IMHO the worst outcome for everyone,,,but at least it says the Palestenians have chosen their course of action.

But perhaps, just perhaps, Hamas which has a lot of loyalty due to many things (programs for the people, etc.) will have to face a point of continued conflict,,,or of a negotiated peace. There is so much money ready to flow into Gaza--building tourism, supporting education, etc.--that the Palestinians have in front of them this choice, IMO obviously, a chance to build prosperity for their children, or a continued mess.

by wchurchill on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 07:54:06 PM EST

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 1)

Apparently some in Hamas are already suggesting that the "two state" solution could be seen as an interim solution to a peace settlement. The precedent here could well be the IRA/Sinn Fein approach to the Good Friday agreement in Northern Ireland. While retaining the long-term goal of a united Ireland, they participate in elections and the institutions (apart from the Westminster Parliament) as an ordinary political party.

As well as Hamas, the vote for the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) also went up. This is probably non-muslim voters protesting against the problems within Fatah.

by Londonbear on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 09:33:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

really a good comment, and I pray not overly hopeful. I was also thinking of the IRA/Sinn Fein analogy.

by wchurchill on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 09:56:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Similar to Lebanon too (none / 0)

Hizb'Allah have been involved in the Lebanese parliament for a long time now. They remain an armed group currently. Other parallels here are that Hizb'Allah provide the same social services as Hamas, and resisted Israel although Hizb'allah has been far more successful at this than Hamas.

by observer393 on Wed Jan 25th, 2006 at 11:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

It is an opportunity I think, the likelyhood of any EU country not talking to a democratically elected government has to be quite small doesn't it?

by Samir on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 05:41:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

Very interesting article in Reuters which somewhat supports the line of thinking on this part of the thread:Arabs see Israel and U.S. changing stance on Hamas

Israel and the United States will eventually adapt to the reality of an electoral victory by the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, opening new opportunities for Middle East peace talks, Arab commentators said on Thursday.
The upset result, which has not been officially confirmed, could also lead Hamas to alter its hardline position, which now advocates an Islamic state embracing all of Israel and the Palestinian territories, they added.
Hamas's victory over the long-established Fatah movement in the parliamentary elections was a victory for democracy in practice in the Arab world, even if it was not what the United States wants when it calls for political change, they said.
Arab governments, many of which face domestic opposition from popular Islamist movements sympathetic to Hamas, had no immediate comment on the election results.
But in the face of widespread admiration for Hamas and a decline in support for Fatah in the Arab world, Arab leaders too are likely soon to start treating Hamas with more respect.

The article continues with other good insights.

by wchurchill on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 09:17:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

So...wait a minute...Hamas won???

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 06:44:41 AM EST

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

Bush and Sharon have done a heckuva job: first the religious shiites in Iraq (my eyes popped out of their sockets when I read a major Spanish newspaper calling the United Iraqi Alliance "moderate shiites"), then Ahmadinejad in Iran, and now Hamas in Palestine...

This is what democracy is like. I'm afraid if Hamas really clearly wins we'll have a repeat of Algeria 1991.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 06:50:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

BBC: Who are Hamas?

Hamas appears to have translated its widespread popularity among Palestinians into a dramatic win in the Parliamentary elections.
Its new-found political status does not make it any less controversial, however.
Branded a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US and the EU, it is seen by its supporters as a legitimate fighting force defending Palestinians from a brutal military occupation.
It is the largest Palestinian militant Islamist organisation, formed in 1987 at the beginning of the first intifada, or Palestinian uprising against Israel's occupation in the West Bank and Gaza.

Regarding the first intifada, last year I read Palestine by Joe Sacco, a graphic novel best described as pencil-and-paper photojournalism. It's a great first-person view of the occupied territories and the issues 15 years ago when Hamas was founded. Some of the tensions among the different factions of the Palestine liberation movement (notably Fatah and Hamas) are touched upon tangentially.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 06:55:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

Well you beat me to it, M...kein problem...here's what i found in the same article:

The decision to stand in Palestinian elections has been a major departure for Hamas.
Top figures say it reflects the importance of the movement and the need for it to play a role in a failing Palestinian political sphere beset by corruption, inefficiency and lost credibility.
It has used Israel's Gaza withdrawal as a campaign platform.
However, mainstream groups like Fatah say the move signifies a de facto acceptance of the Oslo accords and recognition of Israel's right to exist - a characterisation that Hamas rejects.
But Hamas' armed wing remains the epitome of the "terrorist infrastructure" which the Palestinian Authority is called on to dismantle under the international peace plan known as the roadmap.

this will have everyone in a dither for awhile...what do you do, when a population democratically elects a terrorist organization as its parliament. Does Pakistan vote in El-Queda next? Interesting times!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:04:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

Here's the thing: just like Hezbollah, Hamas is not only a terrorist organization. It's a social movement, as an organization it provides social services, and there is a strong component of clan-like solidarity. Lebanon at least has a functioning goverment and civil society, but Gaza doesn't, which only makes the role played by Hamas' civilian side all the more important.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:07:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Today's Palestinian Vote (none / 0)

Just to bring the point home...

ETA is a terrorist organization, Batasuna isn't (despite what the new Spanish law of political parties says).

The IRA is a terrorist organization, Sinn Fein isn't.

Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization, it won't be them fielding candidates in Pakistan.

und so weiter.

If you don't give people the ballot they'll take the bullet.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:18:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

exactly (none / 1)

the terrorist bullshit just served the interests of the "Powers".

by Euroliberal on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:30:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Update: Palestinian Vote - Hamas wins? (none / 0)

Details..... you may like to know By Amos Harel, Arnon Regular and Amira Hass, Haaretz Correspondents:

Unofficial results in the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council indicate a crushing victory for Hamas, which seems to have garnered an absolute parliamentary majority after cleaning up in almost every constituency.

The unconfirmed results show that Hamas has captured almost all of the 16 constituencies in the West Bank and Gaza, in particular the Jerusalem district, where Hamas won all four seats allocated for Muslim candidates. Two seats are also reserved for Christian delegates in Jerusalem.

At this stage there is no data on the national results. The Palestinian parliament has 132 seats. Wednesday's election was split into a vote for 66 seats for local districts and 66 for a national ballot.

Hamas won all nine seats in the Hebron district, four of the five Ramallah seats (the fifth seat is reserved for a Christian delegate), and captured the majority of seats in Nablus, Jenin, Qalqilyah, Tul Karm and Salfit.

In the Gaza Strip Hamas won all seats in the northern, Gaza City and Dir al Balah districts. Hamas won four of the five seats in Khan Yunis, and Fatah candidate Mohammed Dahlan apparently won the fifth seat. Fatah won the majority of seats in Rafah.

....

The Palestinian Central Election Commission said that the election results, initially scheduled to be announced at 9 A.M., will now be released at 7 P.M. It gave no reason for the delay.

A senior Fatah official said it appeared Hamas was on course to form the next government, while a top Hamas official held out the possibility of a power-sharing coalition with Fatah and other parties.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:17:00 AM EST

Re: Update: Palestinian Vote - Hamas wins? (none / 0)

Unofficial results in the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council indicate a crushing victory for Hamas, which seems to have garnered an absolute parliamentary majority after cleaning up in almost every constituency.

Now, that is something...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:21:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Update: Palestinian Vote - Hamas wins? (none / 0)

haaretz always the first to report....

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:22:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Update: Palestinian Vote - Hamas wins? (none / 0)

I once read an article accusing haaretz of putting a different spin on thins in their English edition wrt their Hebrew edition. Basically, the gist of it was that the Hebrew edition provided a more nuanced coverage of the Palestinian issue, while the English version seemed designed to manage foreign perception of Israel. I wish I knew where to look to find the article, which compared Haaretz's English articles with the writer's own translation of the Hebrew articles.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:27:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Update: Palestinian Vote - Hamas wins? (none / 0)

No idea... but here the english edition is considred to be a short version of the hebrew edition...but the columnists are certainly the same (at least the important ones).. so unless they translate wrongly on purpose or the opinions at least are the same...

Not necessarily the case for news which can be cherry-picked.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:31:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Update: Palestinian Vote - Hamas wins? (none / 0)

From the comemnt of Migeru and now that I think about it, may be this information should be frontpaged...It is very important.. the first news that the winning is a crushing winning.. full majority....

a link to Haaretz..
Hamas wins

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 07:25:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Aljazeera (none / 0)

some good background info I haven't found anywhere else:

Hamas

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 08:18:27 AM EST

Re: Aljazeera (none / 0)

The sourcing notation at the bottom says it's a Wikipedia article.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 10:20:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Aljazeera (none / 1)

Now that's funny.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 10:22:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks. I would add... (none / 0)

...didn't get that far

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 11:28:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What is Hamas? (none / 1)

IMHO the world should deal with Hamas as the elected representatives of the Palestinians. Europe and America have dealt with people supporting some very ugly views, perhaps most relevantly here Israeli extreme right ministers. But that shouldn't blind one to the fact that the problem is not simply with terrorism, it is also about ideology:

World Zionism and Imperialist forces have been attempting, with smart moves and considered planning, to push the Arab countries, one after another, out of the circle of conflict with Zionism, in order, ultimately, to isolate the Palestinian People.[...] Only when they have completed digesting the area on which they will have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion, etc. Their scheme has been laid out in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and their present [conduct] is the best proof of what is said there. [Hamas Charter Article 32]

The Zionist invasion is a mischievous one. It does not hesitate to take any road, or to pursue all despicable and repulsive means to fulfill its desires. It relies to a great extent, for its meddling and spying activities, on the clandestine organizations which it has established, such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, Lions, and other spying associations. All those secret organizations, some which are overt, act for the interests of Zionism and under its directions, strive to demolish societies, to destroy values, to wreck answerableness, to totter virtues and to wipe out Islam. It stands behind the diffusion of drugs and toxics of all kinds in order to facilitate its control and expansion. [Article 28]

The enemies have been scheming for a long time, and they have consolidated their schemes, in order to achieve what they have achieved. They took advantage of key elements in unfolding events, and accumulated a huge and influential material wealth which they put to the service of implementing their dream. This wealth [permitted them to] take over control of the world media such as news agencies, the press, publication houses, broadcasting and the like. [They also used this] wealth to stir revolutions in various parts of the globe in order to fulfill their interests and pick the fruits. They stood behind the French and the Communist Revolutions and behind most of the revolutions we hear about here and there. They also used the money to establish clandestine organizations which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests. Such organizations are: the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, Lions Clubs, B'nai B'rith and the like. All of them are destructive spying organizations. They also used the money to take over control of the Imperialist states and made them colonize many countries in order to exploit the wealth of those countries and spread their corruption therein. As regards local and world wars, it has come to pass and no one objects, that they stood behind World War I, so as to wipe out the Islamic Caliphate. They collected material gains and took control of many sources of wealth. They obtained the Balfour Declaration and established the League of Nations in order to rule the world by means of that organization. They also stood behind World War II, where they collected immense benefits from trading with war materials and prepared for the establishment of their state. They inspired the establishment of the United Nations and the Security Council to replace the League of Nations, in order to rule the world by their intermediary. There was no war that broke out anywhere without their fingerprints on it [Article 22]

Hamas Charter

Again, the Israelis would be being a bit hypocritical complaining about the world dealing with Hamas considering the nature of the right wing of Likud and the extreme right parties, but Hamas' ideas are pretty ugly.

by MarekNYC on Thu Jan 26th, 2006 at 11:16:38 AM EST

Palestinian Vote - "indicates crushing victory for Hamas" | 59 comments (49 topical, 10 editorial, 0 hidden)

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Palestinian Vote - "indicates crushing victory for Hamas"

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A Nomad's Life (A Farewell)

The Brussels Consensus: economic disaster in EU candidate...

Origins of German Neo-Austerianism

Ferguson hates on Keynes

Dionysian revels: Nice, May Day 2013:

Anglo Or Not, It's A Disease

The UK and the Euro

Free Energy: Solar and Dynamo LED Keychain Lights

Kruganomics 101

Gold

Corporate Profits and Aggregate Demand

VC Investment: Then and Now

An Ambush of Wishful thinking and Cargo Cult law.

The Intellectual Foundations of Austerity destroyed