The original sin

by Jerome a Paris
Wed Oct 4th, 2006 at 11:27:27 AM EST


Rally Remembers 1993 Bloodshed

People gathered outside the Ostankino television complex Tuesday to commemorate bloody clashes between government troops and supporters of the parliament that left many dead 13 years ago.

The official death toll from the Oct. 3-4, 1993, events stands at 123.

More than 60 percent of Russians believe that former President Boris Yeltsin's use of military force to subdue the rebellious Supreme Soviet in October 1993 was unjustified, according to a recent poll.

The poll, conducted in late September by the independent Levada Center, revealed that 61 percent of Russians considered the decision to send tanks against the parliament on Oct. 4, 1993, unjustified. Back in 1993, just 30 percent of respondents held this view, Interfax reported.

Thirty-five percent of respondents in the latest Levada poll said the "general collapse" in the country begun by former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev had led to the so-called October events, while 28 percent attributed the events to the "irresponsible policies of Boris Yeltsin and his entourage."

These events (which I lived through myself in Moscow) are what killed democracy in Russia: a President getting the army to shoot on the Parliament over a political disagreement is not a good omen. But worse, the West's support for Yeltsin in that crisis is what killed the Russian's belief that democracy was any better: this was just a power struggle, and "democracy", as defined by the West was just as violent, hypocritical and unfair as the system they had left - maybe even more, as economic dislocation was biting hard already, and economic chaos, crime and obsene wealth capture became associated with the period, with "democracy" and with "capitalism", again, with the blessing of the West, too scared to imagine that freely elected communists might be different than the previous kind.

We're doing the same mistake with the Arab world today, supporting "democracy" except when it brings Islamists to power. We're just feeding, again, resentment and feeling of betrayal.


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Hear, hear!

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 4th, 2006 at 11:50:46 AM EST
Very Sad and Very True.

"When the abyss stares at me, it wets its pants." Brian Hopkins
by EricC on Wed Oct 4th, 2006 at 06:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. :)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Wed Oct 4th, 2006 at 12:19:29 PM EST
has been posted on dKos: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/4/151124/346

Thanks for your support.!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 4th, 2006 at 03:20:03 PM EST
I think your DKos entry is really one of your best diaries in describing one of the pivotal turns in Russia - while it was presented on the news (in my memory) nothing much but an exiciting skirmish. That's a top class post cast in a very readable form with a great hook. Wish you had posted it here as well. I can tell you: for myself there was a lot of new insights in it, and I think for many of my generation likewise.
by Nomad on Thu Oct 5th, 2006 at 04:34:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're doing the exact same mistake with the Arab world today, supporting "democracy" except when it brings Islamists to power.

We've been doing the same thing in the Arab world forever. In the early 1990's we Europeans did the same, tacitly or esplicitly supporting the Algerian military's coup suspending the elections that the islamists were on the verge or winning, and triggering a decade-long civil war that left hundreds of thousands dead and involved terrorist blowback in France by the GIA.

When will we ever learn?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 4th, 2006 at 03:57:15 PM EST
When will we ever learn?

when we run out of money?

its an expensive job, funding military control of everything.

then look at the 'tao' jones climbing!

great time to own stocks in ......what?

uniforms, mace, tanks and bullets?

addle-brained barble-belt white taliban kkk voters, united with texas oil politics, scale resolution to global....

what do you get?

rapture....no child left behind.

someone wake me up and tell me i just got looped temporarily into a kafka-meets stephen king -meets poe- meets orwell daymare.

can humans really be this venal and stupid?

no need to answer...

nice knowing you!

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 5th, 2006 at 03:00:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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