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Fixing Fox

by de Gondi Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 02:56:15 AM EST

Fox propagates malicious urban legends while Mario Scaramella heroically battles against an assassination attempt. Wonderland ghostbusters entertain us as they try to corner the nefarious Prodi. Scaramella re-anounces another one of his lists of evil Italian politicians and reporters and sets the stage to litvinenko prime time with death-bed accusations.

I want to thank Migeru for pointing out an exceptionally bad piece of reporting by Fox news in his comment Saturday. Just for the hell of it, let me play editor and kick ass in the Fox newsroom.

Promoted by Colman. Note by Jerome: All our coverage of the Scaramella/Litvinenko saga can be found here.


I want to thank Migeru for pointing out an exceptionally bad piece of reporting by Fox news in his comment Saturday. Just for the hell of it, let me play editor and kick ass in the Fox newsroom.

Scaramella, [...], is also linked to an investigation of Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi, long thought to have had ties to the former Soviet espionage apparatus.

Scaramella is more than linked to several investigations concerning Prodi. He set out to frame Prodi. Framing people with false charges is not the same thing as an investigation. It's called character assassination. Scaramella indicated that Litvinenko and Limarov had revealed to him that Prodi worked for the KGB. Both categorically denied ever having made that accusation. Scaramella then sought to create bogus financial transactions through San Marino that would have linked the Nomisma, a company founded by a group of people that included Prodi, to the Soviet Secret Services.

Further accusations are based on deliberate and fraudulent misrepresentations of the acts of the Berlusconi Mitrokhin Commission, presided over by Senator Paolo Guzzanti. The Italian right wing's continuous use of the authority of institutional offices to concoct illogical and non-existent links rivals Joe McCarthy's 1950's witch-hunt. It's too bad this malicious trash finds its way into the international press.

Prodi,[...], once was the target of an investigation into KGB infiltration of the Italian government[sic]

Romano Prodi was not the target of any investigation but the object of several smear campaigns both on the left and right. He was asked to testify before the Mitrokhin Commission, instituted during the Berlusconi government. He was interrogated in the 58th hearing on April 5th, 2004 (see below).

The Mitrokhin Commission investigated alleged KGB activity in Italy based on the 261 scraps of paper Mitrokhin wrote concerning Italy. Mitrokhin composed notes based on documents he archived for the Soviet Services over a period of several decades. Most of what he wrote was severely dated by the time he turned his notes over to the English.

Emblematic of the value of Mitrokhin's notes was the English parliamentary debate on whether to press charges or not against a very old lady who had effectively spied next to nothing for Moscow in her distant past.

Of the 261 scraps of paper, immediately published by the D'Alema government in October 1999, almost nothing was interesting or revelatory. It appeared the Soviets were far more concerned about Berlinguer's activity as General Secretary of the Italian Communist Party, as well as the Vatican. Much more than any "Italian government." It made good gossip and brushwood for a good deal of satirical writing.

That information revealed how the KGB had successfully recruited 261 leading Italian politicians and journalists.

261 scraps of paper mentioning Italy. Priests, politicians, professors and reporters were named. Fifteen paid informants. Twenty confidential sources. Twenty individuals who were "cultivated.". Four individuals were regularly spied on. All of the spied victims were prominent members of the PCI (Italian Communist party), most notably Enrico Berlinguer. Most of the people fingered as spies or confidents had no problems defending themselves. Or didn't even bother.

Curiously, Scaramella reportedly was meeting with Litvinenko at a London sushi restaurant to tell the former KGB agent that his name was on an assassination list that he'd uncovered.

Both Guzzanti and Scaramella have declared that the list was sent by Euvgenij Limarev. Limarev has categorically denied the charge. Further Limarev details in an interview that it was Scaramella who had asked him about a Russian security agency called "Pride and Dignity" that allegedly had Guzzanti and Scaramella on its hit list. Limarev looked into Scaramella's story, found that "Pride and Dignity" existed and wrote back that Scaramella's hypothesis was plausible.  Scaramella then turned it around, making Limarev the source of the tip off- and threw in the names of Anna Politovskaja and Litvinenko as icing. Limarev had never mentioned the two. It's fairly easy to uncover one's very own assassination list.

In short, it is still not known who is Scaramella's real source if not himself, nor why he named Limarev. Or why he sought to associate Guzzanti and himself with the good name of Politovskaja.

Limarev was also indicated by Guzzanti as the source of charges against Prodi as a KGB agent. Limarev denies ever having made such charges.

Prodi's political opponents, meanwhile, have launched several investigations into his financial and political dealings.

Right wing political opponents do not launch investigations, a particular solemn expression usually associated with justice. Right wing political opponents launch smear campaigns. As pointed out by the Repubblica last week, the proper term is "character assassination", not "investigations."

To the contrary there are and have been investigations by judiciary authorities into the activity of Scaramella. Lengthy transcripts of damning conversations between Guzzanti and Scaramella have been published simultaneously by the three major dailies, Corriere della Sera, la Repubblica and la Stampa, the past days. Considering that the President of the Senate, Franco Marini, has reprimanded the press for publishing the transcripts today (Monday), we can expect further welcome transcripts in the days to come.

Senator Guzzanti cannot be investigated without authorization by parliament. Further not even the parliament can investigate one of its members. However, Guzzanti can be sued for slander if it can be proven that he did so outside of his official Senate functions. Backed by the Mitrokhin Commission and many of its secreted hearings and acts, Guzzanti has no problem defending himself and launching whatever accusation he wants.

Scaramella, of course, can be investigated. He as yet does not enjoy the privilege of impunity. Berlusconi should see to it that Scaramella be elected to parliament as soon as possible. He would be a welcome addition to the eighty-odd parliamentarians (the vast majority representing Berlusconi's personal political entity, Forza Italia, or his coalition) found guilty, let off for statute of limits or on trial for criminal activities before their election. That's one tenth of the Italian parliament.

I suggest the following correction: There is a major judiciary investigation launched by the Naples Procura, now transferred to the Rome Procura, into the financial and political dealings of Mario Scaramella.

One investigation probed the former economics professor's research company, which accepted millions of dollars worth of government contracts, and shared a Moscow office with the KGB.

Sounds like Curt Weldon's Russian links to me.

Once again the word "investigation" is abused. But that's not all. Here goes.

Nomisma, an economic consultant firm, was founded by a group of economists among whom Prodi in 1981. When Prodi was designated head of IRI in 1982, he resigned. Nomisma is presently owned by a hundred financial institutes and businesses both foreign and Italian. Almost all major Italian bank groups have shares in Nomisma. During his Mitrokhin hearing, Prodi was interrogated about Nomisma's contract with the Russian economic research institute, Plechanov, of the Academy of Sciences in 1989 (pages 44 to 50). Nomisma at the time had sought to set up a business school but the project fell through for lack of funding.

Nomisma, like many research and consultant firms throughout the world, has government contracts. A shared "Moscow office with the KGB" is a malicious falsehood.

But that's not all. Here's a conversation between Scaramella and Guzzanti in the Repubblica complete version, published on December 1st. The conversation took place in January 2006.

SCARAMELLA: Do you have some details on the meeting with the Boss?

GUZZANTI: The news had a strong impact. When I go to see him I always say things by word and at the same time pass a note under his nose with the same things written that I'm saying, and in the note- that he reads and rereads underlining the important points, writing 1, 2, 3, like he does- there are those things we discussed as future [possibilities]... He nodded gravely like someone who not only..., better yet, when I said, "You know, the problem with this affair is that if we go to trial then it's (incomprehensible)... we're saying something which we have to demonstrate", and he surprised me a little, ... but I figured he wants to play on the offensive. He said: " Hey, one moment! Anyway we force them to play on the defensive."  I found this to be an extremely positive reaction. (...) And I replied: "Look, ... I'll bring you results and then (incomprehensible)."

SCARAMELLA: I'll work to reinforce what we have. If we need more, I've got channels. (...) There are three possibilities: 1) the States, where I was told fairly clearly if what was managed in a certain way, then it gets friendly [original in English] on the other side. So there are serious limits, but they can be forced. 2) San Marino. San Marino has got a sluttish bank that does the dirty stuff: it's the Cassa di Risparmio. Certainly you know that Nomisma has substantial shares in the Cassa di Risparmio, that is the Cassa di Risparmio is the owner of a sizable piece of Nomisma. [False, my note]

GUZZANTI: Yes.

SCARAMELLA: I know that in the past the financial links [with the Russians] were through San Marino. So there's a specific investigative lead where certain elements could emerge, even for exposure. I got, for example, Monday, the Procura of Bologna that, indirectly, could become the recipient of certain information, not directly, but indirectly.

GUZZANTI: When do you have the meeting?

SCARAMELLA: With De Nicola [Bologna prosecutor] on Monday in Bologna at 11. So it could be, indirectly, not explicitly naming names, but dropping a lead: "Look the money from Moscow. From the Cassa di Risparmio it ends up in a principle firm." And then it leads to Nomisma. It's another one of those steps that then tomorrow on a judiciary level...

I'll pause for now. Readers may get the idea of what kind of investigation Fox is referring to. Even if the conversation does not finish here. As for the Boss, I'll leave it to readers to figure that one out.

Suspicions about Prodi date back to 1978, when tipped off police to the exact whereabouts of kidnapped Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro. Police eventually bungled the rescue operation, and Moro was murdered by his Red Brigade kidnappers.

Prodi later offered remarkable testimony to investigators, claiming he learned of the location during a Ouija Board seance.

The Moro tragedy is far too complicated to discuss here in a few short paragraphs. But for the sake of precision, Aldo Moro was not Prime Minister at the time. The police did not bungle a rescue operation. They were ordered to search the town of Gradoli rather than the street, via Gradoli, in Rome, where Moro was held prisoner at the time. Given that then Minister of the Interior (Francesco Cossiga) ran a crisis group whose members were all in the subversive Masonic lodge, P2, one may pose legitimate questions on the Italian government's conduct during the affair.

Prodi had been previously interrogated by the Parliamentary Moro Commission about a spiritual séance in which the word "Gradoli" was spelled out. The only suspicion about Prodi in the Moro affair dates back to the fertile imagination of Guzzanti and reporters for the left-leaning weekly "Avvenimenti" since a 1999 speculative article. "Avvenimenti" is generally not an authoritative news source.

Here's a partial transcript of Prodi's testimony in the 58th hearing of the Mitrokhin Commission (pages 51 to 54). Sit back and enjoy it as one of the most expensive commissions in Italian parliamentary history takes you through the looking glass.

FRAGALA'. Another theme that is of particular interest for our Commission  and certainly also yours [Prodi]. Concerning the famous event of a spiritual séance in the house of professor Clò in Zappolino near Bologna, a leftist weekly particularly well informed, on October 19th, 1999, after the revelation of the scandal on the Mitrokhin dossier-

PRESIDENT GUZZANTI (head of the Mitrokhin Commission): What weekly?

FRAGALA': Avvenimenti- I was about to say it- then directed by the reporter Fracassi of Paese Sera, now I believe by Honourable Diego Novelli, former mayor of Torino. Well, this magazine particularly well informed on these themes, on October 19th,1999, published an investigation, writing numerous pages on the Mitrokhin question in relation to the Moro Affair. In fact, as you know, from the Mitrokhin question three very significant pieces of evidence emerge concerning the link- or at least the monitoring- that the KGB had with the Moro kidnapping: the famous grant holder Sokolov, discussed by professor Tritto, the matter of intoxication against Secretary [of the Democrat Christians] Zaccagnini (operation "Sphora"), and last, the most important head of the KGB spy network in Italy, Giorgio Conforto, alias agent Dario. Well then, on this argument Avvenimenti wrote (I cite two agency dispatches of October 19th, 1999): "Maybe the ghost that revealed to Prodi and the other participants in the spiritual séance that Aldo Moro was prisoner in via Gradoli was none other than the KGB itself that used this system to cover the source of the leak, that is Morucci and Faranda." Avvenimenti writes this in the issue that will come out tomorrow which tackles several aspects of the Mitrokhin dossier, re-elaborated in English from Soviet sources, especially concerning the Moro case. Avvenimenti writes, "Giuliana, daughter of Giorgio Consorto, codename Dario, and KGB agent since 1932, hosts in her home Morucci and Faranda, who oppose the hardliners in the Red Brigades and want to save Moro's life. A friend of Giuliana Conforto, Luciana Bozzi, rented the house in via Gradoli to Balzarani and Moretti. A group of Moro's friends, among whom Prodi, gather in Zappolino in Emilia in the house of a medium, and through contacts with a ghost, discover the name of the location where Moro is held prisoner. What would the KGB have done," asks the weekly Avvenimenti, "if they had known where Moro was held prisoner? Who knows, it's almost complicity, many would have said, if it were discovered that it was the KGB behind the leak. And it was necessary to keep suspicion far away within the Red Brigades that it was Faranda and Morucci behind the leak so as not to endanger their lives and that of Giuliana Conforto. In this way," Avvenimenti concludes, "someone came up with a brilliant idea: to dress up the KGB in the sheets of Zappolino's ghost. The only error that was made was by Cossiga's secret services," Avvenimenti says, "that exchanged via Gradoli for Gradoli and since word of the search near Viterbo ended up immediately on the radio, Moretti and Balzerani heard the news and had time to abandon their hideout," [...]
The question concerns this source which is not on my political side of the fence. Given that the Aldo Moro Affair continues to be a black hole in the history of the Republic [...] and given that none of us could ever imagine or believe that a group of professors and illustrious deans of economy, Catholic to boot, could ever have organized a séance in Professor Clò's house, I believe it's the moment- historical I might add- to tell us if Avvenimenti is right, or anyway reveal the unpronounceable source of the via Gradoli leak that you then felt opportune to cover up with the expedient, so often used, of a séance.

PRODI: On this matter we- and I say "we" because we were all interrogated- have fully answered the Parliamentary Investigative Commission on the Via Fani Massacre, and there is absolutely nothing to add to what has already been said. Everything has been done with much care and attention.

FRAGALA': So, then, on everything said by Avvenimenti in 1999, that is after you made your declarations to the Parliamentary Investigative Commission on the Via Fani Massacre and to the Commission on Terrorism and Massacres?

PRODI: The declarations are complete, exhaustive. You can read them in the records.

FRAGALA': Excuse me, President Prodi. On this affair I naturally have all the records and I was one of the members of the Commission on Terrorism and Massacres who listened to your séance colleagues while they insisted that the name, "via Gradoli", came out of a plate that whirled over the various letters, absolutely untouched by any of you. I only want to ask you one question, in light of what you have said in this ulterior circumstance of clarifications that I've attempted to represent by invoking an investigation by a weekly which is not on my political side.
Given that all you participants in the séance have represented the event as a game one famous rainy afternoon, in which illustrious deans- even young at that- of economy, had decided to amuse themselves by having a séance to see where the Red Brigades were hiding, and given that you have represented that as the immediate scope, by questioning the ghosts of La Pira and Sturzo, it was supposedly revealed the indication of a geographic location; such was true that all of the participants in the séance, including your wife, professor Clò and so forth, have said that an atlas was opened to try to individuate the place where Moro was held prisoner; I ask you why you did not stop when the plate formed the word "Grado" which indicates a geographic location, but continued? Why?

PRODI: It's written in the interrogation.

FRAGALA': There is no answer because the question has never been asked. Why didn't you stop with the geographic indication of the word "Grado" that, as you know, is a city where Moro could have been held prisoner? Why did you continue after "Grado?" This question has never been asked.

PRODI: It's never been asked and I have no answer to give you.

FRAGALA': He doesn't know it.

PRESIDENT GUZZANTI: President Prodi, I'm obliged to tell you that we know plates don't move around by themselves. They have never moved and they will never move by themselves and therefore this version on which you insist, is in my opinion and in the opinion of anyone blessed with common sense, should be taken as is. Plates don't move by themselves. It doesn't exist.

NIEDDU: That would be a matter open to discussion.

FRAGALA': Especially on the part of militant Catholics because the Church forbids spiritual séances. Séances are a sin for Catholics.

CAVALLARO: Honourable Fragalà, you're saying something that is not true because the Church does not prohibit séances. The Church invokes prudence.

PRESIDENT GUZZANTI: That's a question that personally doesn't interest me nor does it concern the commission.

FRAGALA': Now we're defending spiritual séances.

GAMBA: Mr. President, our colleague Fallica intends to ask one question and he asked me to be able to anticipate his turn, on which I am in agreement.

PRESIDENT GUZZANTI: Please, then, intervene, honourable Fallica.

FALLICA: I thank you, Mr. President, and colleague Gamba for his courtesy. Going quickly back to the last question colleague Fragalà asked, can you tell us, President Prodi, if there could be a link or an interpersonal relation between some of the subjects who participated in the séance and professor Stefano Silvestri, record number 14 of the Mitrokhin Report?

PRODI: Certainly not.

FALLICA: Perfect. Thank you.

DATO: It didn't appear to me that it was an ascertained fact that it concerned Silvestri. It's only one of the hypotheses.

FALLICA: It was a question, not an assertion.

PRESIDENT GUZZANTI: Senator Dato, if you wish to intervene, please do.

DATO: No, absolutely, it's just that honourable Fallica affirms as certain that which is not certain as such.

FALLICA: I repeat that it was a question, Senator Dato. That's a sentence with a question mark at the end. "Can you tell us?" And the professor answered by saying that it was to be excluded.

Postscriptum. In the latest episode of the Scaramella soap opera, Mario has declared in an exclusive direct telephone call to prime time national news (RAI TG1)from the stage of his London hospital bed that he has over five times the lethal dose in his body. He asserts that he was not contaminated but victim of an assassination attempt. This follows previous check-ups both by Italian and English doctors that found no significant levels of Polonium on him. Given previous Italian cases, such as Michele Sindona's self-inflicted murders (the last one, alas, overdone), it might be a good idea to find out if Mario's alleged Polonium poisoning came from the same Russian source or a Neapolitan souk.

Mario is very resourceful.

Senator Paolo Guzzanti has dramatically affirmed that Mario is going to certainly die. If he doesn't he'll be a cripple for life, subject to constant chemotherapy and marrow transplants.

Mario's lawyer, Sergio Rastrelli, has declared that before he died, Litvinenko had given Mario a list of Italian politicians and reporters who work for the KGB-FSB. Mario intends to reveal their names in the near future.

Other than the utter crassness of this impostor who uses the dead for his personal intrigues and glory, we do hope Mario will be miraculously cured. That way he can affront eventual charges brought against him, especially in court, in all serenity.

I have compiled my own list of names without availing myself of Litvinenko's ghost. I apologize before hand to all those valiant reporters, ethically averse to horseshit, I've failed to include.

There are no Fox reporters on the list.

Display:
Thanks, De Gondi. Great to see that stinking mound of horseshit-innuendo clarified online - in English.

"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami
by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Mon Dec 4th, 2006 at 08:33:51 PM EST
Maybe we should give the bull (and the horse) a break and call it foxshit.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 01:58:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
especially apropriate, because it stinks

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 04:39:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Today, Tuesday, December 5th, newspapers report that the authorities at the University College Hospital have denied that Scaramella is contaminated with a dose of Polonio five times lethal.

There is a full-page interview with Scaramella in la Repubblica by Giuseppe D'Avanzo and Carlo Bonini. Scaramella modifies his versions of the past few days and is evasive with all questions concerning his past activity. He refuses to comment on the published conversations, the actual investigation he is subject to and Limarev's denial of being his source.

Scaramella's lawyer, Sergio Rastrelli, has corrected his previous statement concerning Scaramella's list of reporters and politicians in cahoots with the KGB-FSB.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 01:56:36 AM EST
If he had been contaminated with any significant dose of polonium he would have had, like Litvinenko, a disabling bout of vomiting, and would lose his hair within two weeks of the poisoning (apparently normal course of severe radiation poisoning). I have also seen it reported that Litvinenko received "100 times the lethal dose", which seems to me like it would have led to death within a couple of days.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 03:04:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am basing my claim on Wikipedia's table of exposure levels and symptoms of radiation poisoning. First, the smalles dose that can be called "deadly" is one Sievert:
1-2 Sv (100-200 REM)
Light radiation poisoning, 10% fatality after 30 days (LD 10/30). Typical symptoms include mild to moderate nausea (50% probability at 2 Sv), with occasional vomiting, beginning 3 to 6 hours after irradiation and lasting for up to one day. This is followed by a 10 to 14 day latent phase, after which light symptoms like general illness and fatigue appear (50% probability at 2 Sv). The immune system is depressed, with convalescence extended and increased risk of infection. Temporary male sterility is common. Spontaneous abortion or stillbirth will occur in pregnant women.
Second, the smallest dose that Litvinenko can have received (base on his loss of bone marrow) is 6 Sievert:
6-10 Sv (600-1,000 REM)
Acute radiation poisoning, near 100% fatality after 14 days (LD 100/14). Survival depends on intense medical care. Bone marrow is nearly or completely destroyed, so a bone marrow transplant is required. Gastric and intestinal tissue are severely damaged. Symptoms start 15 to 30 minutes after irradiation and last for up to 2 days. Subsequently, there is a 5 to 10 day latent phase, after which the person dies of infection or internal bleeding. Recovery would take several years and probably would never be complete.

Devair Alves Ferreira received a dose of approximately 7.0 Sv (700 REM) during the Goiânia accident and lived partially due to his fractionated exposure.

As to why it is impossible that Litvinenko received "100 times the deadly dose"
More than 80 Sv (>8,000 REM)
U.S. military forces expect immediate death.[citation needed] A worker receiving 100 Sv (10,000 REM) in an accident at Wood River, Rhode Island, USA on 24 July 1964 survived for 49 hours after exposure, and an operator receiving 120 Sv (12,000 REM) to his upper body in an accident at Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA on 30 December 1958 survived for 36 hours; details of this accident can be found on page 16 (page 30 in the PDF version) of Los Alamos' 2000 Review of Criticality Accidents


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 05:31:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Times: Focus: Cracking the code of the nuclear assassin (December 03, 2006)
Though it remains hedged in murk and mystery, a few firm findings are emerging from the fog of conspiracy theories. They include:
  • Polonium-210 of the quantity and purity used to kill Litvinenko is difficult to obtain, and cannot simply be ordered over the internet. The amount used, more than 100 times a lethal dose, implies it was obtained either from a reactor or in an unusually large commercial transaction that "would have raised eyebrows".
  • Though some polonium is imported into Britain, no polonium is made here and none has been reported missing. This indicates that the isotope was smuggled into the country.
  • Litvinenko was contaminated on November 1 and not before. Yet it is thought traces of polonium on a plane and in a London hotel date from October 25.
  • Police have identified a trail of polonium residues at 12 sites across London, including a restaurant, two hotels, some offices and Litvinenko's home.
  • So far only Litvinenko, his wife Marina and Mario Scaramella, an Italian who met Litvinenko on November 1, have tested positive for absorbing polonium into their bodies. Marina and Scaramella have far lower levels of contamination than Litvinenko suffered and as yet are reportedly showing no ill-effects.
THE more that emerges about Litvinenko's death, the more polonium is revealed as an extraordinary weapon for assassination. Though it leaves a radiation trail, this is of usually benign "alpha" particles that do not register on normal geiger counters. The assassin or assassins may have gambled it would never be detected.
Firm findings?
  • I don't believe Litvinenko received "100 times the deadly dose".
  • "alpha" particles are detected by Geiger Counters (it's gamma rays that are generally not detected as alpha and beta particles are electrically charged, but gamma rays are not). Alpha particles, however, are usually absorbed within a few centimetres of the source (in air), and are stopped by skin or by (say) a sheet of paper. Which means you have to bring the geiger counter next to the source. But Polonium is one of the most intense alpha emitters, so if it's there and you do a thorough scan you _will find it.


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 06:21:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect they should be treating Scaramella for Munchhausen syndrome instead.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 04:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow dvx, you sure are on a roll this morning! :-D
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 04:17:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks Fran, but I think I just forgot to take my antisnarkpressnts this morning ;-)

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 04:29:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Today's interview with Scaramella by Giuseppe D'Avanzo and Carlo Bonini is now on line- in Italian, of course.

I am looking forward to seeing Scaramella and Guzzanti given equal time on national news to eat their previous charade.

Scaramella's antics have had unpleasant consequences in Naples and Ischia. His kids are being boycotted in school, parents are outraged. On Ischia everyone who had met him the past month is claiming controls. We'll have to call in the ghost of Eduardo de Filippo to write this up.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 04:43:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
how much distorsion and outright lies are thus propagated.

Thansk fro the detailed debunking.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 04:43:52 AM EST
With Fox, I would suggest ADD (attention deficit disorder) as probable cause. The American press is hardly worth reading sometimes.  As amply revealed here, "coverage" at best often leads to more questions than answers.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 11:15:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Both Guzzanti and Scaramella have declared that the list was sent by Euvgenij Limarev. Limarev has categorically denied the charge. Further Limarev details in an interview that it was Scaramella who had asked him about a Russian security agency called "Pride and Dignity" that allegedly had Guzzanti and Scaramella on its hit list. Limarev looked into Scaramella's story, found that "Pride and Dignity" existed and wrote back that Scaramella's hypothesis was plausible.  Scaramella then turned it around, making Limarev the source of the tip off- and threw in the names of Anna Politovskaja and Litvinenko as icing. Limarev had never mentioned the two. It's fairly easy to uncover one's very own assassination list.
The first British newspaper to mention Dignity and Honour was, to my knowledge, the Evening Standard. I summarised their story in a top-level comment to kcurie's POlonium diary.
Here's the interesting bit...
The papers ... name a group called Dignity and Honour as a potential threat. A man closely connected to it, Mr. Litvinenko knew, was his mortal enemy.

The organisation, which operates out of Moscow, is made up of ex-KGB spies who offer themselves for hire.

So, the papers don't actually bear the "name" of who wanted Litvinenko dead, or do they? And is this how the probe "leads back to Moscow", which on the front page was insiuated as Moscow = Kremlin = Putin?
"They are old-fashioned spies who couldn't give up the game", a Moscow security source said. "Technically, they are all retired. But most people see them as an extension of Putin's secret service."

Mr. Litvinenko's friends believe rogue elements in Dignity and Honour may have been involved in the decision to assassinate him.

Notice the rogue.
The group has close links to Russia's [...] Federal Security Service, the renamed KGB, and Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) [...]

The organisation was instrumental in freeing a Dutch doctor, Arjan Erkel, who was kidnapped in Daguestan in 2004. ...

This contributed to a suspicion in security circles that the old spies were being used by the FSB and SVR to do their dirty work. The Moscow source said: "If it's dodgy and it goes wrong, the government can say 'it wasn't our guys'..."

Vladimir Putin, a former head of the FSB, is said to be an admirer of Dignity and Honour. One of its leading members is believed to have been Putin's station commander in Dresden...

Interesting, but I can't help but notice the unnamed sources, and the interveaving of (much) hearsay and (few) facts. Here comes the interesting bit (linking up to the "rogue elements within D&H" above
If the murder of Mr. Litvinenko was not directly ordered by the Kremlin, or overseen by its security apparatus, it would explain why it took place at an embarrassing time for Mr. Putin. He was at the Asian summit agreeing the terms of Russia's entry to the World Trade Organisation with President Bush. A rogue hitman would not be directly answerable.
"An embarrassing time", just like Politkovskaya was murdered on Putin's birthday.
The documents Prof. Scaramella showed Mr. Litvinenko also linked Dignity and Honour to the murder of journalist Anna Politkovskaya...
And then the piece turns to the internal struggle among Russian expats, and within Russia


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 05:24:22 AM EST
Here are the salient passages in the Limarev interview.

Now can you explain why Mario Scaramella indicates you as the source that revealed the existence of the secret operation apporved by the Kremlin to eliminate all of Putin's enemies: Anna Politovskaja, Aleksandr Litvinenko, the same Mario Scaramella and Paolo Guzzanti?

There is no such list. And I never gave one. I told Mario how things work. There's no official meeting in the Kremlin where it's decided to assign to Intelligence the job of eliminating the president's enemies. Obviously the matter is a lot more nuanced. Intelligence members let their contacts in organized criminality or private agencies created by ex-officials of the KGB- Moscow and Europe are full of them- that in a very reserved way, one will receive honour and glory if he silences this guy or another. That's what I said and wrote in my email to Mario. It was Mario  who had in turn asked me to control the existence and activity of an organization called "Pride and Dignity"- it's one of those private security agencies I mentioned before- and the people that gravitate around it. I don't know where he got that information. I know I wasn't the source. I know that Scaramella and Guzzanti aren't wrong when they worry about their safety. I notified them that the obstinate search for past infiltrations of the KGB in Italy very much irritated the Kremlin which doesn't want to pay the political consequences of anti-western operations during the Cold War. Over time, then, someone in Moscow concluded that Paolo Guzzanti and Mario Scaramella were operating to discredit the new political course. So I confirm what Guzzanti says and what scares Scaramella.

[...]

If we understand correctly, you work for Scaramella. In the past months, Scaramella asks you to verify the news concerning Guzzanti's and his security. On November 1st, Scaramella consigns that information to Litvinenko in a Japanese restaurant in London. When Litvinenko finds out he's been poisoned, Scaramella drags you into the story, indicating that you are the source. Is this correct?

Correct. I didn't like it when I found out Mario had told Aleksandr the contents of our recent conversations, when I realized he had manipulated it by putting in the magnate Berezovskij, Litvinenko also and the reporter Anna Politovskaja, whom I've never handled. On November 2 or 3 I wrote him a mail. I asked him why he had violated a fundamental point of our agreement: The information that I gather for him must not be shared with third parties. On that occasion, Mario apologized. But the eggs had been broken. All you had to do was read the English press.

They cite possible suspects in the poisoning.

No. They mix together bits of information that once again, Mario Scaramella had asked me to verify and that I had verified. I'll put it simply. It's true there's an organization called "Pride and Dignity." It's true that the president and the vice-president of the organization are ex-officials of the KGB. It's true that the organization was solicited to monitor Guzzanti and Scaramella. It's true that one of the men in "Pride and Dignity" limps. But what this information has to do with the death of Litvinenko nobody know. Maybe Mario knows but, I understand, he must be very scared.


by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 06:42:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That interview is just too good...
Qual è l'attività di Scaramella?What is Scaramella's business?
"Diciamo che Mario raccoglie informazioni"."Let's say that Mario gathers information".
Per conto di chi?On whose account?
"Non saprei dirlo. Le mie fonti a Mosca hanno due convinzioni diverse. Lavora per i servizi segreti italiani. Oppure, è un uomo delle Cia e dei falchi che, in Occidente, vogliono screditare la Russia di Putin"."I wouldn't be able to say. My sources in Moscow have two different beliefs. He works for the Italian secret services. Or, he's a man of the CIA and of the people who, in the West, want to discredit Putin's Russia".


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 08:29:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
RIA Novosti: Russia intelligence veterans group denies role in ex-spy's death (07/ 12/ 2006)
A Russian intelligence services veterans association has dismissed allegations of its involvement in the death of Russian security service defector Alexander Litvinenko, a group spokesman said Thursday.

There have been reports in the Western media suggesting that Honor and Dignity, a foundation of veterans of Russia's intelligence and diplomatic services, might have been involved in Litvinenko's death.

The spokesman, who asked that his name not be used, dismissed assertions that foundation President Valentin Velichko, a former Federal Security Service (FSB) officer, might have had a part in the Litvinenko case.

"That is groundless, unsubstantiated information," he said, adding the group is pondering a lawsuit against the media outlets that made the allegations.



Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 01:50:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You should post this at dKos for their edification.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 07:15:52 AM EST
I'ld have to throw in American conspirators to get their attention. A Ledeen or two, and the game is done.

But I'd be doing myself a disservice.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 07:30:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, Fox is a good enough target. If you want, I can do it. I can make a shorter version of your diary and invite readers over here.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 07:33:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Senator Biden's newfound taste for Cold War with Russia might be a suitable lead-in.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 07:42:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just merge in this comment of yours
It has also been revealed that one of Scaramella's consultants was Bob Lady, the Milan CIA agent wanted for the Abu Omar kidnapping. A second CIA agent who collaborated with Scaramella is not named.


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 07:39:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome and Migeru supplied two US links, but you wrote of another, Mr. Ledeen himself: you mentioned him in connection with the Ali Agca Bulgaria link scam. Best include all three as a 'teaser'.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 08:56:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where was that? (The Ali Agca thing)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 09:17:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here. Actually eternalcityblues mentioned it first, de Gondi then detailed it.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:15:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have mentioned the Ali Agca Bulgarian connection in the past at Eurotrib without going into much detail here and here.

More later.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 11:12:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Tell me what you want to do wrt dkos.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 11:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Please go ahead. It's no problem for me. I hope it's not a hassle for you.

I've always been partial to Eurotrib followed by Booman for the quality of their diaries and comments. As for the US oriented audience at Dkos, I would have discussed Mario's Florida connections through his ECCP company. Not much, but Mario does have an American base. That's how he got his "professorial" stripes. The Italian press has been investigating the American side (Corriere, if I'm not wrong) but I don't see the US press on to it.

He'll be written off as one of those extravagant Italian scoundrels and it will be generally ignored that Mario's rise to influence owes a lot to his American connections.

I haven't really looked into the Dkos coverage of the Litvinenko death. It's been so outstanding here, so it's a pleasure to contribute.

What may be missed is an overhead view. One naturally emphasizes the story with its human characters and their actions. Often any attempt to see the larger picture is dismissed as conspiracy theorizing. Con-artists strive in Italy because there's a need. A basic tenant of berlusconismo is not to revise history, but to reinvent it in the image of its leader. Yes, the WWII partisans are barbarous, cold-blooded assassins while Mussolini's republicans are cast as victims. The judiciary trials over major massacres and crimes committed in Italy must be contrasted by parliamentary commissions that overturn verdicts and history. Even trial verdicts must be misrepresented.

If Andreotti is condemned for his links to the mafia, the evening news says he was absolved. And just to be safe then the anti-mafia commission spends half its final report attacking the judiciary sentences. The Mitrokhin Commission sentences that the Bulgarians attempted to kill the pope although they were found not guilty in court. The Telekom Serbia corruption scam was invented to frame the opposition with full page banners in the rightwing press and opening news on all channels. Yet in the end the only proof of corruption was laid at the doorstep of that same commission by the Turin Procura: Nearly one million euros to Italo Bocchino, rightwing member of the Telekom Serbia Commission, through the San Marino Finbroker to a strange unknown newspaper called Roma.

Berlusconismo is consumate pornocracy, the triumph of ignorance and prevarication. "Who dares to think was not born to believe in me." In what other nation would a prime minister appoint his personal lawyer to oversee constitutional and judiciary reform, that same lawyer that not only defends the prime minister in his trials but attempts bribery to defend a fascist bomber responsible for the Piazza Fontana massacre? Berlusconismo, and its lesser cousin, Bushism, needs con-artists, charlatans, scoundrels to create its own reality, seconded by sycophants, groveling lackeys and posturing whiners. It's no wonder Italy has produced the various Rocco Martinos, Igor Marinis, Mario Scaramellas and Pious Pumps.

Perhaps the Litvinenko affair and its offshot Scaramella affair does little else but show us a mirror of ourselves. Which as usual we cannot perceive, so intrigued are we by the Russian universe. It only happens there.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 04:53:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the diary is posted now:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/5/161839/853

I've used only part of your diary, to encourage people to come over for the rest, and added a few comments.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 05:23:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks very much. Will check it out.

On another key, Pollari will stand trial for the Abu Omar kidnapping. Good news for excellent Smintheus. And us all.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 05:30:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do not know if it has been mentioned before, but I noted something on the scaremongering angle.

Swedish evening press (low standards for truthiness) had a field day with the plane. "Radioactive planes landed on Arlanda" and so on. (Arlanda is the mayor airport in Sweden.) Basically playing on fear of radioactivity. It is strange and dangerous.

Anyone seen other scaremongering campaigns related to this? Ducktape against polonium?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:03:58 AM EST
Okay, let's stop this advocacy for animal cruelty. It's duct-tape. It is used to tape ducts, not ducks.

duck
duct
duct-tape
duck + duct-tape
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:48:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know that these misconceptions would never exist, if the english speaking world could use the proper name of the product. Gaffa.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:57:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, gaffer tape is a different thing entirely.

And, of course, there's also the Duck® brand duct tape....

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 11:11:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I stand corrected.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Mon Dec 11th, 2006 at 07:52:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it me, or is there something rather fowl about this post?

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 12:13:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bravissimo!  An excellent piece of work, along with all the additions, right down to the duck.

< stands, applauding, with a big smile>

I will pass it on.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 02:24:07 PM EST
This morning Scaramella and his lawyer retracted what they had said over the weekend that they had a list of names of Italian politicians and reporters.

This evening he's changed his mind. Now he has a video of Litvinenko who reveals the names of all those evil Italians.

In the meantime, the Naples Procura has raided Scaramella's office and home. Scaramella is under investigaton now for illegal traffic of waste. Not bad for a guy whose American company is all about enviromental protection.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 05:12:06 PM EST
He's under investigation a) by a parliamentary commission who wants to know who the heck he'd been working for, on what basis and with what objectives and last but not least who'd been paying him/his expenses recently - since the Mitrokhin commission disbanded some time back; and b) by the Naples public prosecutor who has put his Naples home plus main Naples office plus offices of a couple of scratty little pseudo-companies he owns under judicial seizure - charge being "illegal disposal of special wastes".  

When I heard the news on TV I laughed myself sick - immediate "on the face of it" interpretation being that he was being charged with crapping radioactive turds into the naples sewage system!!

But I checked it out on La Repubblica online - far more prosaic real explanation being that it's about some scam he was running with his ECPP thingy plus sidekick companies: as Berlusconi-linked Former Official Ecological Whatsit he's accused of having farmed off the rather profitable disposal of building-side excavation materials to a company not authorised to dump 'em, plus no-one knows where the heck the stuff actually got dumped! .. rather a pity, as charging Scaramella with radioactive turd-crapping would have been a magnificent twist of judicial "poetic justice"!! :-D


"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami

by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 05:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Prodi, séance, Mithrokin comission, the outargeous funny quoted hearing above, masonic lodge P2, Berlusconi who owns all media, the Vatican, radioactive murders, KGB agents...

I love Italy.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 07:35:41 PM EST
I love Italy.

For all the "wrong" reasons, yet again ... :-(

Agreed that spies and doublecrosses and murky-mysteries and creepycrawlies in the woodwork are helluva lot more fun than decent, efficient social-democratic decorum, OK?  ...but grrrrrr of course Italian national-imagewise they're even worse than our usual stereotype of spaghetti-mandolins-donkeys-and-Vesuvius-with-closeup-of-Sophia-Loren's-decolleté I spend half my waking life screeching about!  So how about some decent coverage of Italian ultra-classy, hi-tech engineering... and in particular our aerospace contrib. to Galileo, and/or Italian hydroelectrics, laser surgery...???

Nah.. all non-existent...grrrrrr  

(DRAT!! in fact double-drat and blushes!! as despite all my Italo-chauvism I've just realised not only the Scaramella-story "as such" but my very-own recent Scaramella ET-post's truly weird google-prominence have further contributed towards Italy's current/renewed Borgia-type national image... grrrrr... booohooo...)

 ... ah well... :-(    

"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami

by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 08:47:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is what I have been wondering.
by observer393 on Tue Dec 5th, 2006 at 11:44:06 PM EST
As I had expected new transcripts were published this morning in the Repubblica. They are extensive excerpts of conversations with two Americans, a certain Californian named Perry in which Scaramella discusses his expected kickbacks for framing Prodi allegedly promised by Berlusconi- a job at the UN Viennese office or assitant to the vice Secretary General of the NATO.

Scaramella also mentions en passant an alleged American CIA agent, Lou Palumbo who together with a certain General Gordievskij apparently put together the false accusations against Prodi.

A second conversation is with the former prosecutor of Naples, Augusto Cordova. The conversation reveals that the Sismi was aware of the Scaramella plots to frame Prodi.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 02:02:01 AM EST
You should cross-post this comment on Jerome's DKos diary, in reply to the person that says you're not credible.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 03:52:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll post it myself. I did some 'damage limitation' over there the past hour. (I think Jérôme picked the wrong excerpts to quote in some cases: we know the general background of Berlusconi and the Italian right's meta-mafiosi activities, but the Americans don't.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 07:07:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I saw your excellent comment.

You might want to cross-post the excerpts I just posted here from today's CNN interview with Scaramella.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 07:09:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Already did so :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 07:17:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the great comments over at Dkos!
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 05:06:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Repubblica scoop is presently on line at the following link for those who can manage Italian. Unfortunately I must run off to work and regret not being able to translate it immediately. However, here are some points.

As mentioned yesterday, Scaramella and his lawyer denied having any lists of Italian reporters and politicians to the written press. In the evening on national television during the program Porta a porta, a notoriously pro-Berlusconi program, Scaramella asserted again that he had tapes, videos and documents once again against the usual, well-known Italians.

During his 23 minute conversation, Scaramella alleges that he has been helped by Senator-for-life, Giulio Andreotti. He also declares that he has direct contact with Berlusconi who is informed of his schemes. Scaramella further plans to make the revelations against Prodi by using Russian writers such as KGB colonel Gordievskij and Bukovskij. Supposedly by publishing his fraudulent claims abroad, he could evoke international copyrights, whereas if the material were published in Italy, his charges would amount to calumny and false accusations.

He declares that he negotiated  payola with Berlusconi, an appointment to prestigious international positions with the UN or the NATO. He asserts that Berlusconi offered him a seat in parliament.

According to Scaramella, the trap was contrived by Gordievskij together with the NY cop and alleged CIA agent, Lou Palumbo.

A second conversation with the controversial Agostino Cordova, advisor to the Mitrokhin Commission, clearly indicates that Cordova is perfectly aware of scheme to launch false accusations.

The president of the Senate, Franco Marini, has been served an immediate reply to his attacks against the press.

May they continue.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 04:40:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's the link.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 04:41:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
CNN: Scaramella: I warned poisoned spy (December 6, 2006)
The Italian security consultant who met Alexander Litvinenko on the day he was believed to have been poisoned said he wanted to warn the ex-spy his life was in danger.

"I received several e-mails from another source he [Litvinenko] introduced to me some years before, saying that him and me were under the special attention of hostile people, so to take care," said Mario Scaramella.

...

"The problem for me was these mails were so full of details, so specific that they didn't seem genuine."

...

Scaramella said he tried to warn Litvinenko that they were being targeted by "people linked with some clandestine organizations, not directly under control of Russian establishment but from Russia ... generally retired people from the security service."

...

Scaramella served with Litvinenko on an Italian parliamentary probe of alleged links between Italian politicians and the Soviet-era KGB. He said he sought out Litvinenko's opinion during a business trip to London because of his prior contacts with the source.

But he said he does not believe his associate could have been poisoned at the London sushi restaurant Itsu, where they met -- "simply because there were no other people, any strange situation."

...

He said he did not eat during the meeting because he doesn't like sushi. But he had met Litvinenko there before, "because he liked this kind of food." He said British police investigating Litvinenko's death do not consider him a suspect, and he has cooperated with the probe.

Now check out paragraphs 14 and 15...
Scaramella's credibility has been under scrutiny, as well. He has made dramatic and unproven allegations in the past, including claims that current Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi had KGB ties. Andrea Mergelletti, an intelligence adviser to the Italian Senate, said Scaramella has a reputation as a fabricator.

"Mario Scaramella is one of the people who works in the gray world of intelligence," Mergelletti said. "We may consider them a sort of wannabe 007, people that want to play a role -- but in reality, in the theater of reality or not reality of the intelligence field, they just play as a supporting actor."

[I got to CNN from an El Pais story]

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 06:21:55 AM EST
Scaramella served with Litvinenko on an Italian parliamentary probe of alleged links between Italian politicians and the Soviet-era KGB. He said he sought out Litvinenko's opinion during a business trip to London because of his prior contacts with the source.

Litvinenko never served on the Mitrokhin Commission. He was tricked into signing false revelations written in Italian, purported to be translations of his accusations against Putin, by Scaramella. Litvinenko made a full verbal report on record to the reporters, Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe D'Avanzo, detailing how Scaramella had tricked him. Repubblica published Litvinenko's testimony.

A full translation of Litvinenko's testimony against Scaramella as well as that of Limarev (off line)would be in order.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:03:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
De Gondi, could you believe another interpretation possible? What I'm thinking of is that Litvinenko is also a scam artist. What if he told Scaramella tricked him merely to cover his ass? That would also explain why the two would be meeting in London in apparent friendship (and why the poisoned Litvinenko never accused Scaramella but Putin).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:15:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Limarev did mention that he did not think much of Litvinenko's accusations. He also declared that everything Litvinenko or Scaramella discovered was already possible to find on the web. Neither had ever produced original claims or proof that Limarev had seen.

Limarev is in France and has declared that he is more than ready to testify or offer his collaboration.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:27:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I need to dig it up (I have posted it here on ET), but it has been claimed (by one of Litvinenko's friends) that Litvinenko suspected Scaramella poisoned him.

Ok, found it. The Sun attributed it to Yuri Felshtinsky.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:28:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Further, Limarev's testimony published in the Repubblica in an interview made last year offers objective and independant evidence that Scaramella is a con-artist deliberately set on framing Prodi.

Limarev's testimony reveals the San Marino scams before they were published both in the Telekom Serbia Commission scam as well as the Mitrokhin Commission scandal.

As I have said previously, it is surprising that Repubblica sat on these interviews for so long. It is now apparent. They only published after Scaramella and Guzzanti made their moves this past month.

Had Guzzanti and Scaramella released their false and malicious accusations just before the elections, my bet would  be that Repubblica would have immediately published the Litvinenko and Limarev interviews.

Unfortunately they didn't. Perhaps because Scaramella learned through a mole in Minister of Interior that he was under investigation and that he was being taped. Further it now appears that the Sismi was aware of Scaramella's criminal activity.

Investigators for the Rome procura are seeking to identify the mole.

As for Nature the article expresses doubts that the polonium came from Russia.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:38:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I have said previously, it is surprising that Repubblica sat on these interviews for so long. It is now apparent. They only published after Scaramella and Guzzanti made their moves this past month.

La Repubblica clearly is in this for the long haul, and use their investigative journalism strategically and not simply to boost readership.

The behind-the-scenes wheelings and dealings of everyone in Italy, from the press to the politicians, to everyone's secret services, to organised crime, are nothing short of amazing.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:45:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
yes, it's a festering tumour on the euro-body politic, and its baroque nastiness needs to be brought out into the light once and for all.

this country is being so wasted right now, people are hurting, the corruption so endemic and entrenched, it seems some amoral permission is being given all down the line from the example at he highest levels, where duplicity and opacity are written right into the dna, spewing aver more arcane scams, sucking the vitality from the country.

until they see the goverment spending their tax money wisely, the italians will go on dealing in the black, and the government will have to scrape.

i'm already hearing the voice of the small business entrepreneur rueing berlusconi's unseating.

this was so depressing to hear, from an otherwise perfectly rational and seeming intelligent person.

it is rot, and the head rots first.

i want so much to believe in prodi, but it seems he is not much loved.

the good news for me right now in italian politics is that the left have much brighter people at the top, whereas the right is already bitterly infighting, (something everyone thought the left would immediately do), and casini is the only rightist with minimal charisma, whereas rutelli and alema are good communicators, as is fasini.

fini is the wild card, a very wily man, beadily consistent and cool-blooded, which gives him some traction as the others look vainer and make more noise.

he reminds me a lot of putin, actually.

the unity on the left is holding better, it seems, is (i guess) the point of this ramble, from my ignorant point of view.

someone has to put the 'rant' into 'ignorant'!

whatis amazing is how good the italian reporting is getting here at ET.

front-row seats, people!

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 12:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Further, Limarev's testimony published in the Repubblica in an interview made last year offers objective and independant evidence that Scaramella is a con-artist deliberately set on framing Prodi.

That wasn't in dispute. I meant that Litvinenko and Scaramella might have been two scam artists working together, but afterwards one blaming another of distortion in public, just to evade responsiblity.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:48:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We have a similar case in today's tapes with a certain Perry and the former Naples prosecutor Cordova, who worked for the Mitrokhin Commission.

On one hand when talking to Perry, Scaramella declares that he's got taped testimony against Prodi by Gordievskij in the presence of Lou Palumbo.

With Cordova Gordievskij is discussed in an entirely different light. Both are aware that Gordievskij knows nothing about Italy nor Prodi. Cordova literally advises Scaramella how to use Gordievskij as a false source with the press- and to hell with eventual consequences or investigations. What's important is to get a statement in the press to the effect that Gordievskij indicates Prodi, not necessarily naming him as a Soviet spy but heavily alluding to him.

Scaramella also tells Cordova that Scotland Yard is pissed off at him because he keeps badgering Gordievskij who is under their protection. Supposedly Scotland Yard complained to the Sismi who in turn advised Scaramella to ease off Gordievskij.

What we have here is a similar situation to Litvinenko's regardless of whether Litvinenko is a con himself. It appears Scaramella repeatedly seeks out prominent Russian exiles in order to trick them into supporting his false charges.

Scaramella has today denied ever having done what he says in his taped conversations. He denies having ever met Berlusconi as well as the negotiations for appointments to prestigious international organizations as he asserted with Mr. Perry.

Both caretaker heads of the Secret Services, Generals Mori and Pollari have denied ever having had Scaramella as an agent or an informant.

Police have raided Scaramella's offices again today. He is now under investigation by the Procuras of Rome, Naples and Bologna for international arms traffic, revelation of official judiciary secrets, calumny, international traffic of radioactive material and, last and least, irregular dumping of special waste through unauthorized third parties.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 04:48:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Diary!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 05:09:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...Amongst other things, the phone conversation wiretap transcripts state that at a certain point Perry told Scaramella "You must deal with/handle ("occuparti della" = lit. "occupy yourself" with)the  Italian politics".  

The Perry guy also refers repeatedly to "our organisation" ...as though Scaramella is part of it - or rather, its Italian branch.

And I imagine this Perry guy is the same "silent" American who sat in on Scaramella's previous hours-long sessions with Litvinenko preparing all that pseudo-Mitrokhin bs?  

Query: So who the heck IS this Perry guy anyway - and what the heck is he supposed to be doing messing around with a) Italian domestic politics b) Livtinenko's Russian/Chechen intrigues?  

Is he US-official or US-unofficial? If the first, doing what?  if the second, first question is "whose" is he? Acting on whose orders...  and of course, doing what exactly - in our presumably sovereign and democratic nation??

Grrrr ...Dejà vu dejà vu. Last fifty+ years of nastiest, bloodiest and shadowiest zones of Italian political history are all creepycrawling with these "American connections".  So here they are again!!! and not exactly non-coincidentally, may I note that while the USA is at least supposedly cutting down its troops n' hardware presence in the rest of Europe, it's actually INCREASING its military presence here (Vicenza)!!...So seems Italy's still viewed as the US's "natural harbour-cum-aircraft carrier " to dominate the Med.... and evermore shall remain so...???

.......

P.S. If no-one else has time/energy to translate the Repubblica articles either in full or as excerpts I'm strongly tempted to do a diary with nice fat translation excerpts, concentrating on this aspect...as soon as I have the time! Maybe late tomorrow - that is, unless anyone else here is working on it?

Could call it "Scaramella's American connnection" - THAT would get the Kossacks jumping, eh? ;-)

"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami

by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 06:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you can, please do!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 06:23:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is time. I would very much like to translate and have often done so, but it is a lengthy process even though I can be very fast at it.

There are however several interviews in this case worth translating: The Litvinenko interview and the two Limarev interviews- especially the first one (off line.)

I have done excerpts of the the second Limarev interview- and Migeru did too.

One possibility I would suggest is to set up pro tempore crews and divide the job. I would also suggest cross-checking. I'll even try to figure out how Migeru uses that two-column trick.

The Perry Cordova tapes are very interesting and should be urgent. I'm certain Repubblica and others are trying to track down Perry and his organization. I can't help remembering Phil Guarino, Reagan's defrocked priest turned California Mason who ran shot-gun in the White House over the Italian department of dirty tricks in the Eighties. This could be something similar.

As for Cordova he is a long time controversial figure, murky at times who needs to be explained.

If you do the Perry-Cordova tapes that's great. I'll add in a Cordova bio. I could do the off-line Limarev interview and finish the second current interview.

Since the late Seventies the US has shifted its long-term military strategy to the Southern flank of Europe. Italy- and especially Sicily- are now the major "aircraft carriers." Sicily represents fabulous gains for mafia-linked infrastructures and their political representatives. It's no wonder so much intrigue leads back to Sicily, whether Sindona, Comiso, the P2, Billygate.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 01:44:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually the most important translation today would be the Repubblica interview with Gordievskij.

Gordievskij makes it perfectly clear that both Scaramella and Litvinenko tried to force him into backing false charges against Prodi. Gordievskij was so outraged that he complained to the MI6. But what further enraged Gordievskij is when he found out that Guzzanti and Scaramella had discovered that he had informed MI6. It was Bukovskij who told him that. Bukovskij, too, had been subject to pressure by Scaramella to back false charges against Prodi.

Gordievskij is very much irate and considers both Scaramella and Guzzanti to be clinical cases- something that has been asserted here since day one.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 01:54:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also today brief interviews with Andreotti and Cordova. The Sismi contradicts Berlusconi by affirming that they had told him about the complaint of MI6 against Scaramella.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 02:04:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I condensed your earlier and latest reports into a post at dKos.

Migeru doesn't like asking for Recommends, but I ask for it to get the stories noticed by them Orange Americans.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 05:30:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I recommended it, it's a great summary.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 06:05:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We could do this off-line in a series of writeboards. Upload the Italian text, and people can insert an English translation after each paragraph (that way, the finished text can be copy-pasted into a diary, and only the TABLE, TR and TD tags need to be added since the paragraphs will be already in the right order for a bilingual diary.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 06:35:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The two-column trick is now in the New User Guide.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 02:03:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll even try to figure out how Migeru uses that two-column trick.
The simplest way is a simple HTML table, with two columns per row. It's good to put each paragraph and its translation in a separate row of the table, to account for the fact that different languages tend to have different lengths of text for the same information (English being quite efficient and Spanish or Italian quite long).

"Best current practice" uses three colums (an empty middle column), and is in the New User Guide, though I slightly modify Afew's formatting (I don't use the "width" attribute in the TD tags). You can see how I did it by looking at the source of my comment. [Under Firefox, CTRL-Left_click will select a part of the page, then Right_click will give you a pull-down menu with the option view selection source).

The gnomes could modify the site CSS so that one could use <td class="some_name_or_other"> for the two colours, and <table class=bilingual> for the general table formatting.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 04:16:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't help remembering Phil Guarino, Reagan's defrocked priest turned California Mason who ran shot-gun in the White House over the Italian department of dirty tricks in the Eighties.

LOL

The fun never ends!

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 01:42:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As for Nature the article expresses doubts that the polonium came from Russia.

That's not my reading of the Nature "article" which, by the way, is no better than our own Kcurie and Polonium discussion thread.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:49:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I found the point that Polonium contamination of the planes has not been proven important.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:53:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just like this other one:

Metro: Spy poison found at Arsenal's ground (December 6, 2006)

Minute quantities of polonium 210, the radioactive substance which was used to poison former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, have been found at Arsenal's Emirates stadium.

The radiation was found at the north London football ground at "barely detectable levels", the Health Protection Agency (HPA) said.

An HPA spokeswoman once again stressed that there was no public health concern, adding that the levels picked up were lower than natural background activity.

Lower than natural background levels? And all that fuss for this?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am guessing, but maybe this is reporters' stupidity: most likely Polonium was identified by spectra, and it is its general radiation level that is below background level. (Methinks the background level of Polonium 210 is pretty much equal to zero.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 09:33:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
An HPA spokeswoman once again stressed that there was no public health concern, adding that the levels picked up were lower than natural background activity.

So we should be worried about a lack of Polonium in the environment there?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 10:06:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I checked kcurie's thread again, it turns out I somehow lost it and didn't saw the bulk of the discussion! Indeed you uncovered all.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 10:05:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I know, just about every paragraph in the CNN story could be subjected to the same deconstruction as FOX. Do you feel like "kicking some ass in the CNN newsroom"? I don't any longer.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:19:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Scaramella has left the hospital according to ANSA dispatches. Apparently he has nothing.

Berlusconi has denied ever having met or heard of Scaramella.

Nature has reportedly just published an article inquiring into the death of Litvinenko. A quick check on internet shows that it is not yet on line.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:23:39 AM EST
It's not on the frontpage, but it's there.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:44:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Quotes:

Data from survivors of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs, as well as from nuclear accidents, suggest that a dose of more than 15 sieverts kills within days, as the radiation destroys gut tissue. People exposed to less than 5 Sv usually live for longer than three weeks and may even survive the initial poisoning. A dose within the range of 5-15 Sv is equivalent to the amount of radiation received by someone standing within 800 metres of the Hiroshima bomb.

If ingested, perhaps as little as one ten-millionth of a gram of polonium-210 could deliver this dose. Estimates on the lethal dose vary widely.

...Police are still investigating, but it is possible that Litvinenko spread tiny amounts of polonium-210 after being poisoned. The substance could have come out in his sweat or tears, for example.

Theories about the planes that have been grounded after finding hints of radiation on board are even more speculative. Authorities have not said what level of radiation has been detected or even whether the source is polonium-210.

If polonium-210 is found to be the source, further questions need to be answered. The substance decays by emitting alpha particles, which can be stopped by something as flimsy as a sheet of paper. If the polonium-210 was brought from Russia, as many observers have speculated, contamination could easily have been prevented by simply keeping it in a tightly sealed bottle.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:52:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Haven't we said all this stuff before over the past two weeks?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:54:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On Scaramella, his Prodi-slurring activities and what the Russians thought of him:

Italian emerges as an odd footnote in Litvinenko case (IHT)


He has claimed to be a professor at the University of Naples, which in turn claims never to have heard of him. He was caught on a tape bragging that Silvio Berlusconi, the former Italian prime minister, was considering him for a top job at the United Nations. He later had to admit that he never even met Berlusconi.

And so, a slew of media reports about him and his career here -- which included trying to prove that some top Italian center-left politicians, including Prime Minister Romano Prodi, are Russian spies -- have invariably included unflattering adjectives. They include: "incurable liar," "wannabe 007," "braggart," "bumbler" and "swindler" -- not to mention "fool" and "mental case."

Those last two descriptions come from Oleg Gordievski, the highest- ranking known KGB defector, who has known Scaramella for years. His opinion of Scaramella is so low that he could not even consider him as a suspect in Litvinenko's poisoning, even after Litvinenko himself raised the possibility in a conversation with Gordievski.

"I said, 'Who poisoned you? Who did you have a meal with?'" Gordievski recalled in a telephone interview Friday. "He said, 'I had a meal with Scaramella. He was very nervous. He was very strange, but he is always strange.'"

"I said, 'Sasha, it could not be Scaramella because he has nothing to do with the KGB business,'" Gordievski said.

He concluded: "He is just a soap bubble. He doesn't know anything."

The interest in Prodi appears to have been the major tie between Scaramella and Litvinenko. Both Litvinenko and Gordievski have recounted in interviews Scaramella's deep interest in proving that Prodi was a KGB agent. Accounts differ. But Gordievski said Friday that he was present when Litvinenko, who moved to Britain in 2000, recounted for members of the U.K. Independence Party a conversation with a sympathetic Russian general where to go if he defected.

"He said, 'I was speaking to the deputy head of the KGB, General Such- and-Such,'" Gordievski recalled. "And he told me, 'If you intend to go to the West, don't go to Italy because it is full of our agents.'" And he said, 'For example, Prodi is our man.'"

The transcripts between Scaramella and Guzzanti show a particular interest in this conversation, and Scaramella repeatedly pressed Gordievski and Litvinenko for any further information.

Gordievski said he told Scaramella that he never heard anything about Prodi and the KGB -- but that Scaramella later said in an e-mail message that Gordievski had, in fact, confirmed a link.

"I nearly fell from my chair," he said. "He wrote it in that stupid e-mail to me. I didn't write it. He wrote it as mental aberration in him."

In a 2005 interview with La Repubblica, an Italian daily newspaper, Litvinenko recounted how he had traveled to Naples in 2004 to give a deposition to the commission, taken by Scaramella, on KGB activity in Italy.

"I said to Mario I had never heard Prodi spoken of," Litvenenko told La Repubblica.

At the end of several days of interviews, on a balcony overlooking the sea, Litvenenko said that Scaramella put in his hand some stationery from his private business and several hundred euros.

"I felt humiliated," he told the newspaper. "I told him he was mistaken if he thought Colonel Litvinenko was reduced to selling his information."




"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami
by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 09:04:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a misrepresentaton of Gordievskij's version. It was Litvinenko who accused the dead Anatolij Trofimov of having said that Prodi was a KGB agent.

Gordievskij was outraged and sat in silence. He believes Litvinenko finally caved into Scaramella's badgering because of his financial problems.

I am finishing the entire translation of the Gordievskij interview and will put it up today. In the meantime Bukovskij has also released an interview to Bonini and D'Avanzo.

Further there appears to be a tenuous trail through Venice that could be of interest to the investigation into the murder of Litvinenko.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Sat Dec 9th, 2006 at 04:09:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ABC News: Russia Bars British from Prime Poisoning Suspect (December 6, 2006)
Movements of Suspect, an Ex-KGB Man, Match Trail of Radiation -- and Russians Say He Has Radiation Poisoning

...

British detectives had just arrived in Moscow when they were told they could not see the man they consider their prime suspect, former KGB agent Andrei Lugovoi. He was unavailable, hospitalized with signs of radiation poisoning, Russian officials said.

...

On Oct 25, a full week before Litvinenko was poisoned, Lugovoi flew to London. Both his plane and his hotel, the Sheraton, have tested positive for radiation.

On Oct 31, one day before the poisoning, Lugovoi returned to London. Again, his plane, his hotel -- the Millenium -- and a soccer stadium he visited all tested positive.



Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 05:26:34 PM EST
Here's Lugovoy's detailed bio from eastern european and caucasian intel analysis site Axisglobe -

http://www.axisglobe.com/article.asp?article=1152

The few times I've read their stuff I've found them well informed, with a marked "New Europe" type anti-Russian slant on interpretation and selective quote-chosing.... but compared to Fox et al they're refreshingly factual.

If their picture of Lugovoy is accurate - and no reason to assume it isn't? - I'd be very much inclined to rule him out as polonium-dispenser as he's far too high up the big-shot scale plus personally rich. Since when do the rich and powerfully well-connected, anywhere in the world, ever do dirty jobs personally??...

So if radioactivity dogs his footsteps, could be he's being set up too???

"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami

by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 07:34:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Previous ET comments on Lugovoi:

http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2006/11/29/131313/65/31#31 - "I would say that if they do nto get ill.. we have two serious suspects..." [Lugovoi and Kovtun]
http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2006/11/29/131313/65/30#30 - Lugovoi suggests [Chechen] Zakayev was target, not Litvinenko
http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2006/11/29/131313/65/29#29 - Justin Raimondo: "It is going to be a hard sell, however, portraying Lugovoi as a Kremlin agent, given his past services to Berezovsky"
http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2006/11/19/20439/209/33#33 - Lugovoi confirms Kovtun was other man meeting Litvinenko
http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2006/11/19/20439/209/31#31 - Lugovoi, Goldfarb and the CIA
http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2006/11/19/20439/209/30#30 - Lugovoi denies involvement, and more Justin Raimondo on Lugovoi

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 07:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lugovoi suggests [Chechen] Zakayev was target, not Litvinenko

Reuters: Litvinenko friend slams Western backing for Putin (Dec 7, 2006)

An exiled Kremlin opponent accused the West on Wednesday of standing by passively as Russia passed laws allowing its agents to hunt down opponents overseas, saying these had led directly to the poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko.

Chechen separatist Akhmed Zakayev, a close friend of Litvinenko, accused Western countries of helping to strengthen a "criminal regime" in Moscow by their failure to stand up to President Vladimir Putin.

...

Zakayev, a Chechen rebel leader whom Russia has tried in vain to extradite from Britain, confirmed he drove Litvinenko in his car on November 1, the same day the former agent fell ill.



Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 02:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
jerome, what have you unleashed here?

blogging is getting a bite....

this thread is redefining journalism as i know it...

micro to macro

could that polonium concentration at the football ground have been caused by millions of ciggies stamped onto the ground waiting in line to get in?

moral of the story...don't piss off the russians....

or anyone if poss...

what will it take to get to the bottom of italy's dirty big secrets?

the intrepid bloodhounds at ET?

google don't lie...
well i don't think so anyway!

how many other scaramellas are disseminating disinfo on this scale, and on whose payroll?

i hope they keep opening this can till the last worm's crawled out...

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Dec 6th, 2006 at 07:00:00 PM EST
Interfax: Witness in Litvinenko case in coma after suspected poisoning (Dec 07, 2006)
A  witness in the case of Alexander Litvinenko,  a  former Russian intelligence agent poisoned to death by a radioactive  substance  in  London,  fell into a coma on  Thursday, is in critical condition and shows symptoms similar to those Litvinenko had, a Moscow source said.
Dmitry  Kovtun,  a  Russian  who  met  with Litvinenko in London in October  2006,  "was  able  to  give important testimony" to Russian and British  investigators  before  slipping  into  a coma, "after which the Russian  investigators decided to launch criminal proceedings on charges of attempted murder," the source told Interfax.
The  source  said  Russian  investigators  would be in contact with their British counterparts in the probe of Kovtun's suspected poisoning


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 01:36:52 PM EST
Reuters: Bar staff have traces of radiation (Dec 7, 2006)
Seven staff working in a London hotel bar where former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko drank before he died from radiation poisoning have been found to have traces of polonium 210, a public health agency said on Thursday.

...

"Preliminary results received from seven members of staff working in The Pine Bar of the Millennium Hotel on November 1 show that they appear to have been exposed to low levels of polonium 210," the Health Protection Agency said in a statement.

...

Litvinenko met Russian businessman Dimitry Kovtun and fellow ex-KGB spy Andrei Lugovoy at the Pine Bar on November 1, the day he fell ill. He died from poisoning from the radioactive isotope polonium 210 on November 23.

Kovtun and Lugovoy are now undergoing treatment in a Moscow hospital for radiation contamination.



Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 at 01:57:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mosnews: Lawyer Denies Litvinenko's Contact Kovtun in Critical Condition (08.12.2006)
Dmitry Kovtun, a contact of poisoned Russian ex-FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko, is in satisfactory health and media reports he is in critical condition are wrong, a lawyer told Reuters on Thursday.

Russia's Interfax news agency reported earlier that Kovtun, who met Litvinenko in London on the day he fell ill, was in a coma from radiation poisoning.

...

"I just 15 minutes ago spoke to his (Kovtun's) representative, who had spoken directly to him and he denied that information," said Andrei Romashov, a lawyer for Andrei Lugovoy, another witness in the Litvinenko case.



Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 10:12:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
08.12.2006, 21.21

 MOSCOW, December 8 (Itar-Tass) --

Businessman Andrei Lugovoi, who is a witness in the case of former Federal Security Service agent Alexander Litvinenko, was not questioned on Friday although his health is good enough, lawyer Andrei Romashov told Itar-Tass.

"Representatives of the Russian Prosecutor General's Office and the Scotland Yard did not meet with Lugovoi today, although my client was healthy enough to meet them. We do not know why the meeting did not take place," he said.

Lugovoi told Itar-Tass that he is all right. "Doctors say that I am stable. I have been receiving therapy all through the day," he said. Official results of the tests "will be available by the end of next week," Lugovoi said. He asked the press not to speculate on the health of his partner Dmitry Kovtun and himself.

Lugovoi has doubts about media reports claiming an allegedly critical condition of Kovtun.

The Russian Prosecutor General's Office has no information that health of businessman Dmitry Kovtun, a witness in the case of former Federal Security Service agent Alexander Litvinenko, has exacerbated.

"We have no information to the effect," an office representative said on Friday. He abstained from further comments on Kovtun's health. "It is the question of medical secrets, which may be released either by the person himself, or his lawyer, or representatives of the medical establishment whose patient he is," the source said.

The media said earlier that the condition of Kovtun is critical. Kovtun was questioned by representatives of the Russian Prosecutor General' s Office and the Scotland Yard at a clinic on December 5-6. "The investigators received evidence to the radioactive nuclide poisoning of Dmitry Kovtun and Russian citizen Alexander Litvinenko at these meetings and conversations with the doctors," the source said. The Prosecutor General's Office opened a criminal case on the charges of murder and attempted murder.

Meanwhile, Kovtun's lawyer Andrei Romashov said that his client is stable and his condition has not changed over the past few days.




"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami
by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 05:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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