Compared costs of various countries

by Jerome a Paris
Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 04:52:05 AM EST

(From a KMPG study which can be downloaded from this page)

From the diaries ~ w


Can we stop saying that labor is being coddled and privileged in France, especially as it is more productive already?.

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I would have thought that only those buying into mass media bullshit still believed that France was a lazy country filled with people lacking élan.
Not bright, well-informed bloggers like us, always in the forefront when it comes to prime info. ;)

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Wed Mar 22nd, 2006 at 08:46:01 AM EST
We just have to get blogs added to GDP, I think ... :)


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sapere aude
by Number 6 on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 07:29:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't been around Eurotrib long, but you always dig up interesting stuff.  It is very difficult to change conventional wisdom, it is also hard to get business folks--supposedly professionals--to take a global perspective on costs.  The American/Friedmanesque model obviously prioritizes the bottom line and encourages companies to shed responsibility and weight.  It's the Nike model.  Outsource and you will be more profitable, less prone to risk, and you can focus on branding.  Branding, marketing, and transforming companies into financial leverage machines, not "companies."  Indeed, I wonder why we call them "companies" and "sociétés" since many of these entities don't seem to resemble human forms anymore.  That just reminds why so many of the financial types are so disconnected from reality.  Anyway, the inability to look beyond the idées reçues is not surprising since companies, despite what their marketing says, don't encourage individualism.
by andrethegiant on Wed Mar 22nd, 2006 at 07:58:33 PM EST
That was pretty unclear.  Oh, well.
by andrethegiant on Wed Mar 22nd, 2006 at 08:00:16 PM EST
It was clear (anyway I thought I understood you!)...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 04:16:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh.

And Germany is the export world champion despite a cost disadvantage. That tells you something...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 04:23:41 AM EST
And Germany is the export world champion despite a cost disadvantage

The main reasons that stand behind your quote ,DoDo, are the discipline, high motivation and dedication, and the perfectionism of the Germans not only in the economic sphere, but also in regard to the disposition of the German nation as a whole. As I have spend couple of years there, I claim these facts to be true not from indirect sources and statistics. I mean, it is amazing how the economy of Germany recovered after the devastating World Wars (not underestimating the Marshal Plan, of course.)Although not so agressive as the US enterpreneurs or innovative as their Japanese colleagues, the Germans have taken the best facets of these qualities and menaged to emerge as economic power since the second half of the twentieth century.

I'm not ugly,but my beauty is a total creation.Hegel

by Chris on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 08:31:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say Germany and people's attitudes changed a lot since the Wirtschaftswunder. That Germany is now on the top does, in my opinion, have little to do with general discipline, high motivation and dedication, and more with a striving for quality and efficiency. I also think that lack of innovativeness is a bad cliché contradicted by a lot of high-tech products from Germany. (Off the top of my hat: the latest batch of AC electric engines, gearless wind turbines, the antivirus software I use, a lot of gadgets and safety features in cars, and so on.) Germany only exceeded the USA as export world champion in the last few years.

(BTW, I lived in Germany, too.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 09:07:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do not quality and efficiency require skills like
high motivation and dedication to the respective matters in the production of goods and services. These terms supplement each other and are not contradictory as you
argue. I have observed at first hand long enough the psyche (at least of my german collegues in the university) and I would say that they are particularly proud with their "Wirthschaftswunder und Zweckserreichen"
and try with all efforts to resemble their capable
"ancestors."

I'm not ugly,but my beauty is a total creation.Hegel
by Chris on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 02:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do not quality and efficiency require skills like high motivation and dedication to the respective matters in the production of goods and services.

Not necessarily - or, at least, only from a small minority who is in charge of the processes at some point. In my experience, most Germans today, especially the younger generations, "just do their job" and really only are motivated to do stuff in their free time. (Not unlike most people elsewhere.)

Symbolic for the receding importance of precision in particular, in my observation, are for-the-wide-public and even half-professional technical writings (and TV reports/documentaries) - numbers are rounded, details left off, even confused or plain wrong, sources used without care. Just in my field, ironically, it's now the Spanish press releases that give say the length of a tunnel to be built down to the tenth of a metre and the costs to the last Euro-cent (literally!), while the German ones will round to the nearest first or second digit. The releases of the German Statistical Office are a much wider-reaching example.

I have observed at first hand

May I ask where you have been on a German university? What you describe sounds rather different from my own experiences, it could be because you have been to a conservative school and I haven't. (Come to think of it, I barely knew CDU supporters.) Alternatively, this could be a rebel-against-parents-but-adore-grandparents thing of the youth half a generation after me...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 03:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What is lacking is the (cliche again) American free spirit; that's what I meant under the term innovation and pioneering ;))

I'm not ugly,but my beauty is a total creation.Hegel
by Chris on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 02:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aren't many of the innovations I listed examples of this free spirit?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 03:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Chris, the last US space crafts which did NOT suffer from continuous fatal (and tragic) system failures were developed by ideologically committed German Nazis. The same is true for the Soviet, now Russian, rockets. And why is it that German doors do really close? Have you ever driven a Chevrolet? Well, then you get the idea. Not that I didn't like to drive the Alfa Giulia. I enjoyed it. But it is better done when the sun shines. The same with my Moto Guzzi California motor bike. No rain please, or the electric wires go in tilt. German things are generally quite solid and realiable. Houses and public spaces are well heated in winter (the doors close). This also explains the cultural difference between Germans ordering cold drinks in pubs and the English warm beer drinking habit.

Germans work less because they can rely on a well functioning infrastructure.

Btw: Alfas are traditionally driven by cops and criminals.




"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 04:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what you get for buying a Moto-Guzzi!  My BMW 650/6 ran fine in all weathers.  (I still miss that bike.)

The Challenger disaster was not the fault of the engineers but of the political appointees who decided to launch despite their warnings.

Madness takes its toll. Have exact change ready

by ATinNM on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 07:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You cannot buy the Guzzi California I got (built in 1973). You get it awarded. It belonged to Franco of the "Lizzard Kings" who own the car scrap yard in Cento Celle, Rome. The bike was already part of the iconografia of Rome's rockers gang culture when I got it. It helped that I was part of the Ritter, Tod & Teufel crew who managed the Friday evening events at the (now mythical) UONNA Club discothec.

disc jockey's console at the UONNA

cosy Friday night atmosphere at the UONNA


 

"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 07:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not a bad cliché in my experience.  When I worked for a German electronics company in the 80's it was impossible to change a design once upper management had approved it; the design was -> The Design <- and that was that.  Incremental innovation during implementation was something the German side of the company never grasped and refused to let us do.  A friend who worked for another German company also ran up against the same mind-set.

Now, this was 20 years ago and things may have changed.  

Madness takes its toll. Have exact change ready

by ATinNM on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 06:49:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you have to see these things in context.

It's not about the facts. In fact it's never about the facts. It's about the Grand Narrative - We own the world, and the bits of it we don't own we should own - and various rationalisations and misdirections that hang off that. The point for me is that this position is the foundation of everything else, but it's never mentioned explicitly, which makes it hard to attack directly. So it will remain a Grand narrative until its own assumptions are challenged and pulled apart.

I have no idea whether or not the people who buy the FT actually take their own propaganda seriously. But although debunking the spin is a good start it's a defensive position not an aggressive one. I suspect one way to make some inroads is to create a conflicting Grand Narrative and sell that to people as an alternative.

This is what the unions and the old left used to do. And for all their faults the approach actually had a strong positive effect in keeping the neo-feudalists in check. It's probably time for a fresher narrative though. (And in the meantime the debunking remains very useful.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 06:56:34 AM EST
my partner is german, from the rhineland, near dusseldorf, and i have had the pleasure of scrutinising qualities of german consciousness up close for the last fourteen years.

my girl is as tough as they come, and the way her old audi battles on almost indestructibly over the appalling country roads here is a great metaphor for 'germanity' itself.

there is a neitsche-an 'power of the will' in her that could kill her young if it is not constantly modulated; luckily italy is a near-perfect foil for this!

travelling and staying in germany, i was often struck by the high level of social cohesion and solidarity, translating into respectful, careful, moderate driving habits, (except for on the autobahn!) such as signalling intentions early, maintaining high awareness of others, and obedience to the laws.

there is a tendency to hone in on the serious (even grim sides) of life, and sometimes goofyness and silly fun is felt as inappropriate, though when induced leads to a lovely merriment, the lovelier for the contrast.

only switzerland is more conventional than germany, of the european countries i know.

if you cross a traffic-free street with the pedestrian light red, you will probably be the only one in germany, but you won't get frowns quite so censorious as in switzerland!

personally i find this obedience creates an 'atmosphere' which for an anglo-italian seems a tad heavy, but the germans like it that way, though most are secretly dreaming of living in a sunny-climed villa, where the general vibe is a bit lighter and less 'responsible', and people do silly things like smile for no reason.

the pollution is intense around the industrial north, so much so that one can be on a deserted highway at 5 a.m. on a windless morning in the middle of farmland, and still smell thin diesel vapour as the dominant aroma.
i remember feeling sad that even a country raised-child might think that this is how natural air smelled.

the sky is milky white when it is not grey, and though the weather is much less fickle than england's, there is still the common factor that sunny days are relatively rare.

the constant changing of the weather in england is the reason why the brits use it more as conversation-piece, methinks.

in germany it's just 'there', a grey background to everything that leaves colours looking insipid, and probably has something to do with the high proportion of drab grey and beige shades of polyester attire favoured so much there.

characterially there is something undeniably monolithic to germany. the 'macht' is real and grounded, pragmatic and decidedly un-flighty.

there is a fundamental respect for 'healthy' practices, such as the 'spa-kultur', which has a long and dignified history in germany.

after seeing the bread choices in the bakeries, it all became clear to me....the germans are Wholegrain Freaks, the seed quotient is sky-high, poppy, sunflower, flax, you name it, they weave it into their daily diets.

one day science will perhaps fully understand the relationships and correlations between nations' diets and their destinies...

my theory is that the lecithin and vitamin E content of the germans' diets through the centuries is the direct cause of why the royal families have dipped into the german gene pool for yonks when they wanted to beef up their degenerating monarchies and aristocracies.

blindingly clear, huh!

interesting factoid: real estate agents have told me that when germans buy land here in italy, their first condition is that they can't see any other germans in their view!

when i ask my sweetie why the greens are so much stronger in germany, she says it's because the pollution is so extreme.

yin, meet yang!

loyalty is a beautiful human quality, and it is very strong in the german soul, as is respect for the intellect and highbrow culture.

lowbrow does great there too!

germanity, blended in with other european qualities, adds depth, soul and concentration to all mixes, though sipped at source is a bit too focussed on strength, and perhaps lacking in easy humour or sparkling repartee.

the harder i try to give up unconscious racism, the more obvious and interesting i find national and cultural differences! maybe because as we 'globalise' our national identities blur, and i'll kinda miss them!

the whole first year of our relationship, i had to confront how much i had been brainwashed to demean germans, through all the war flicks i had watched growing up in england.

and those audis are like tanks...

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 12:33:35 PM EST


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