European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

Geoapathy

by STA
Tue May 2nd, 2006 at 10:46:15 PM EST

A poll was released tuesday about young americans (18-24) and their knowledge of geography.

The poll is rather frightening. Most striking: 6 out of 10 could not locate Irak on a map.

Only about one-quarter of respondents could find Iran and Israel on the same map.
Sixty-nine percent of young people picked out China on a map of Asia, but only about half could find India and Japan and only 12 percent correctly located Afghanistan.

The article is fairly short and quite worth the read.

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Geoapathy | 26 comments (26 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

Now I understand better why Iran is the next target : at least it can be related to Irak geographical wise.<snark> Much more convenient. That means less education to me made by the media when they cover the conflict.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Wed May 3rd, 2006 at 10:03:56 AM EST

Re: Geoapathy (none / 1)

Also scary: 1/3 couldn't find Louisiana on a map, and only about 15% thought that learning a foreign language was important.

These polls come out every year or two and are always full of such insights. What really bothers me is that it reflects very badly on the kids, prompting
"Kids these days... When I was your age I knew..." responses.

It should instead be the education system and mass media that get our ire. But, oh, yeah, the govt. and the media don't owe us anything. This isn't a welfare state! I actually saw someone on kos the other day equate public education with "government handouts." Rah, rah, Capitalism!

Oh, and I once heard a news anchor explaining that the upside of going to war was that we all get a good geography lesson. Tom Brokaw, I think.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Wed May 3rd, 2006 at 12:42:27 PM EST

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

I agree that this is not news since we get these polls often. But I was nevertheless surprised by the Irak factor...

by STA (sta.blog@gmail.com) on Wed May 3rd, 2006 at 02:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

the upside of going to war was that we all get a good geography lesson.

Wasn't that Mark Twain originally ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 3rd, 2006 at 05:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

I actually saw someone on kos the other day equate public education with "government handouts."

You've got to be kidding.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 3rd, 2006 at 05:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

I must confess I'm not too good at locating some African countries myself. I mean I know where Lesotho is (because it's quite a unique country), but is Togo to the East or to the West of Benin? ... for that second bit I need a quick refresher, then I memorize it for a few months, then I forget again. It's shameful, Africa is the only continent on which I haven't focused enough geographical attention. To emphasize on how shameful it is, I'm pretty sure I can correctly locate nearly every or every country outside of Africa.

by Alex in Toulouse on Wed May 3rd, 2006 at 05:59:11 PM EST

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

On second thought, that's not true. I'm pretty bad at locating some of the pacific island states, and many other small islands in general.

by Alex in Toulouse on Wed May 3rd, 2006 at 06:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

I'm still working out Eastern Europe ...

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed May 3rd, 2006 at 06:20:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

I think Americans are not doing too good in locating Euroepan countries as well. And when I was there, I never met one who knew where Bulgaria was. At first, I got really offended, but got used to this ignorance afterwards:-). Of course, I was very eager to explain.

Not that I am very good in geography myself, but actually I think I can locate almost every country in Asia, Europe and the Americas. Well, Africa is somethng else, but I am starting to do better since my sister told me she was going to Kongo next year;-).

I can resist anything but temptation.- Oscar Wilde

by Little L (ljolito (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 06:31:30 AM EST

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

One should be aware that the teaching profession in America is strongly against rote learining and would be in open revolt if the curriculum included memorization of country locations on a map. This is called "teaching to the test" in the education debate, and there is very, very strong resistance to standardized testing. It's at the core of the debate about the No Child Left Behind project.

by asdf on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 09:01:08 AM EST

Re: Geoapathy (none / 1)

I had to learn to place countries on a map and the names of their capitals back when I was 12 and it did not stunt my intellectual capacity nor prevent me to learn to make sense of that information later.

If you don't have any information in your head you can't make sense of it.

Colour me old-fashioned.

And I do oppose standarized testing and No Child Left Behind, which are not responsible for America's educational problems (they're just the wrong medicine).

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 09:04:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 1)

I think I had to learn that in the 6th grade ( when I was also 12), and so far I have only seen it helping me, and making me curious to know more. If one wants to know more about the world as a whole, then getting to know where separate countries are actually located on the map, is the best beginning I could think of.

I can resist anything but temptation.- Oscar Wilde

by Little L (ljolito (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 09:51:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

Another example is that there is no way to learn to do mental arithmetic without rote memorization of addition and multiplication tables, which children can do just by singing (hey, don't they sing the alphabet?). Then later you can build on the ability to do mental arithmetic, but if you don't acquire as a child...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 09:55:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

Curiously, I can't even remember having learnt countries and capitals at school. If my memory is not too leaky, then we were probably assumed to learn those just by looking at maps by ourselves, and then know say Paraguay and Chile when say talking of South American economics geography. But I think the names of deserts was one thing we learnt one-by-one.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:49:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

I do. But I think we only did Western Europe.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:52:35 AM EST
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Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

I didn't have a bad time learning capitals, but when it came to locating natural resources I felt really trapped;-).

I can resist anything but temptation.- Oscar Wilde

by Little L (ljolito (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:55:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

One of the best teachers I've ever had, in the 6th grade, made us learn every country and its capitol and be able to locate it on a map. This was decades before NCLB, and there were no standardized tests in 6th grade at that time.

He was Polish/German. Wonder if that was a coincidence?

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:35:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

What potential relationship do you mean? With that ancestry, I'd expect him/her to focus on more than existing countries and capitals (e.g. border changes).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:44:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 1)

Coming from a European educational system, I suppose?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:45:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

By the way, your mention of "border changes" reminded me of this old discussion of the geography curriculum that we had at a breakfast a couple of months ago.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:52:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

I don't understand your comment.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 02:31:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

The partition of Poland.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 03:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

Plus Danzig, plus post-WWII handover of Eastern and Western Prussia and Silezia to Poland (and Eastern Poland to the Soviet Union).

But poemless apparently meant something else - I ask her, what?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 03:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

Well, he was teaching the 6th grade, not high school history, so no, why would he teach border changes just because of his personal background?

I meant that he probably had a more European worldview than other teachers, and that could explain his dogged insistance that we learn geography, and his rather pedantic teaching style (the technical term for which I think is "teacher-centered").

He was a bit mean. He said Americans spoke English in a way that made them sound like they have mouths full of chewing gum, and he lost his temper a lot. But he also tutored me after school teaching me German (foreign languages are not taught in the 6th grade here). I don't remember a word of it though... :(

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 05:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

Well, he was teaching the 6th grade, not high school history, so no, why would he teach border changes just because of his personal background?

I was just trying to figure out how being German/Polish could matter, unlike Migeru not getting that you mean European in general.

6th grade, that's the end of elementary school there? IIRC we had geology in 6th class (including continental motion).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 06:31:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geoapathy (none / 0)

and his rather pedantic teaching style (the technical term for which I think is "teacher-centered").

Teacher pedantry is usually termed "Prussian teching method" here, though I don't know if that is an official term.

One of my best teachers taught physics in such a style when I was in then West Germany. I don't mean to praise the method in general, just sayin' that this one teacher did teaching well. He understood how to maintain discipline among spoilt brat hormone-filled teens without much yelling (not to mention beating anyone up as one would expect from old-school teachers), his talk was easy to follow, his drawings on the table showing clearly what they should, and he neither picked favourites nor saw some as lost cases. He fled East Germany a decade or two before.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 06:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Geoapathy | 26 comments (26 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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