European Tribune

Keeping mum (jailed)

by Jerome a Paris
Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 05:30:32 AM EST

Map from the Council of Europe. Meanwhile, the European Parliament:

7. Is lead to believe on the basis of evidence presented to the temporary committee that, in a number of cases, the CIA or other US services have been directly responsible for the illegal seizure, removal, abduction and detention of terrorist suspects on the territory of Member States, accession and candidate countries and for the extraordinary rendition of, amongst others, European nationals or residents; recalls that these actions do not correspond to known international law concepts and are contrary to the fundamental principles of human rights law;

8. Regrets that the agreements of understanding between US and European countries have not been made available to the temporary committee;

From our governments? Deafening silence.


Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password

Display:
Even more from the European Parliament:
M. whereas, in the absence of any quasi-judicial investigatory powers and in the face of alleged activity by intelligence services being kept secret by national authorities, the temporary committee has nonetheless succeeded in establishing a prima facie case that illegal practices have taken place on European territory affecting European citizens and residents and has therefore shifted to European governments the burden of proving whether, in fact, their human rights obligations under Article 6 TEU and the ECHR have been met,
Governments are not only defeningly silent, but have stonewalled the investigation on national security grounds. Only national parliaments can effectively investigate their own government, military and secret service.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 05:38:07 AM EST
For the moment I have no time to comment much.
Here is a good link with tons of  detailed information:
Manfred Novak, special rapporteur on torture, has catalogued in a 15-page U.N. report presented to the 191-member General Assembly that the United States, Britain, Canada, France, Sweden and Kyrgyzstan are for violating international human rights conventions by deporting terrorist suspects to countries such as Egypt, Syria, Algeria and Uzbekistan, where they may have been tortured.


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 05:57:09 AM EST
The problem(s) of having the nation state as final arbiter--unless...could the/an international court...but no; the italian magistrates have requested the extradition of CIA agents...nuffink doing...or is there news from Italy?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 06:22:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gustavo Pignero died Monday. He was terminally ill.

Besides that I expect major developments anytime now. I'll keep you informed when it happens.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 06:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Portugal the Government keeps dodging the subject. The new Foreign Office minister dismisses the subject, but it's obvious that the Azores are almost unavoidable as a base for transatlantic traffic. Especially since there is an American air base there.
Curiously one of the main voices raising concerns on the subject comes from inside the PS itself (the party in power), in the person of Euro-Deputy Ana Gomes, a former diplomat influencial in the whole East Timor process 6 years ago.

It's noteworthy that the former Foreign Office minister was not a Socialist, but rather a former CDS leader (right wing, christian-democrat) who was very vocal against the Iraq war. The new one seems more willing to compromise....

by Torres on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 07:02:01 AM EST
someone in Portugal is asking questions. Shame on all you Europeans who are too cowardly or apathetic to challenge your collaborating lapdog governments.
by Matt in NYC on Wed Sep 13th, 2006 at 03:20:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Laurent GUERBY on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 07:53:00 AM EST
Democrats acknowledge that the contracts are binding, but support a measure that would punish companies that refuse to renegotiate their contracts by prohibiting them from acquiring additional oil and gas leases.
Taking cues from Evo Morales...

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 08:01:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We've been discussing with Jerome a while ago on the respective tax rate on Oil from "western democracies" compared to emerging countries in the context of Venezuela raising tax on foreign companies.

My question was wether Venezuela raises were just catch up with western tax norms (so companies were "stealing" money from the state before) or more (real tax burden) or less (still some stealing going on).

Jerome said that tax was very complex to measure in each country (joint investment, fixed tax, variable part, more when price goes above X, etc...), in the end may be only high level management in states and oil companies know really how much they pay.

So no conclusion since no easy way to get the data and do the comparison...

by Laurent GUERBY on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 10:18:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From Le Monde:


Il n'y aura pas d'information judiciaire en France sur les escales effectuées par des avions soupçonnés de convoyer des prisonniers pour la CIA (Agence centrale de renseignement américaine). Le parquet de Bobigny (Seine-Saint-Denis) a décidé de classer sans suite la plainte déposée le 21 décembre 2005 par la Fédération internationale des ligues des droits de l'homme (FIDH) et la Ligue française pour la défense des droits de l'homme et du citoyen (LDH). Le procureur de la République, François Molins, s'en est - partiellement - expliqué auprès de Me Patrick Baudouin, dans un courrier daté du 23 août. [...]

Dans leur plainte, la FIDH et la LDH avaient estimé que la justice française pouvait se saisir de l'affaire au nom du principe de compétence universelle, permettant de poursuivre les auteurs présumés des crimes les plus graves, quels que soient le lieu de l'infraction ou la nationalité de l'auteur et de la victime. Le rejet de cette plainte est jugé "très décevante" par Me Baudouin. "La réponse du procureur sur les vols du Bourget paraît bien elliptique, explique-t-il. Dans un contexte de lutte contre le terrorisme et de discours sur la protection des citoyens, on nous explique qu'il est impossible de connaître la provenance, la destination et l'identité des passagers d'un avion qui a transité cinq fois en France."

by Laurent GUERBY on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 08:47:05 AM EST
Can't this decision be appealed? Has there been any sort of public outcry?

WTF doesn't anybody care?!

by Matt in NYC on Wed Sep 13th, 2006 at 03:29:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This question has not been played much in the swedish election as both the sitting government (socialdemocrat) and main parties of the opposition (center-right) would find it mostly embarrasing. They basically got the same position here.

Naturally Piratpartiet is an opponent of secret renditions.

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 09:00:13 AM EST
The EP committee has this to say on Sweden...
J.   whereas this consultation and cooperation should take account of activities and investigations already carried out, and in particular:

-  the final reports of the Swedish Ombudsman(4), the Swedish Parliament's Constitutional Affairs Committee(5) and the reports still awaited from the United Nations Committee against Torture(6) which refer inter alia to the illegal abduction and rendition to Egypt of Muhammed Al Zery and Ahmed Agiza,

...

  1. Deplores the fact that the Swedish state relinquished control of law enforcement on 18 December 2001 at Bromma airport when the Government's decision to expel two Egyptian citizens, Mohammed Al Zary and Ahmed Agiza, was executed and US operatives were allowed to exercise public authority on Swedish territory, which, according to the Swedish Chief Parliamentary Ombudsman, is not compatible with Swedish law;

  2. Deplores the fact that Sweden's expulsion of the Egyptian nationals Mohammed Al Zary and Ahmed Agiza, in December 2001, was based solely on diplomatic assurances from the Egyptian government, which did not provide effective safeguards against torture;


Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 09:07:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It was quite widely published in 2002 (I think) by tv4 but that political scandal petered out and noone was even forced to resign.
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 10:15:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it fair to say that Europe is the equivalent of Democratic Party?  

That's what it looks like from here.  Lots of talk about the lovely things they stand for, lots of frustration and disgust by Bush's policies, and lots and lots of appeasement.  

I suspect that living in one of these secret prison/stopover countries gives you a taste of what it is like to be an American.  A liberal American, anyway.  

Hey, where's the outrage?  Why did you let him use your country for evil deed?  Why didn't you stop him?  I guess the average European condones torture, since they let him do this, huh?  See?  You didn't have any say in whether Bush used your country to commit attrocities!  We didn't have any say in it either.  We could harrass our representatives to oppose it, but they are either too busy covering their own asses or are a minority with less bargaining power than the Bush Admin.  Like you, we had no idea this was even going on.  

We don't like what Bush has used our country for, but unfortunately we don't learn the extent of the abuses until well after the fact.  It's not like we have heated public debates and then decide we ok torture, or spying, or whatever.  We can engange in a public debate if it makes us feel better, but this Admin is going to do whatever it wants regardless what we decide.  

Our justice system has ruled against the secret prisons.  

But I think we are going to need an international effort to prosecute these war crimes.  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 11:20:53 AM EST
Europeans have no sense of shame.  Well, I don't believe it of course, but that is how I felt when I read the one about Americans.  Anyway, the real deal is that your governments can make a contribution to the cause by blowing the whistle loud and long on this crap.  I'd like this to be cross-posted at dkos if possible.  We really need each other.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson
by NearlyNormal on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 04:47:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But if our governments do not seem inclined to blow the whistle loud and long, what are we to do? The situation is that we have the UN, the European Parliament [never mind the Commission or the Council] and the Council of Europe loudly blowing the whistle, but they have no teeth. The European Parliament doesn't have sub-poena powers, only national parliaments do. Neither does the Council of Europe.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 04:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Keep blowing the damned whistle.  Blow the son-of-a-bitch until the heads of the guilty bastards ring.  

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson
by NearlyNormal on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 05:16:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What, can't get your own countries to do what they should be doing?

Huh.  How does that feel?

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Wed Sep 13th, 2006 at 08:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bad. Have any news to share?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 13th, 2006 at 08:47:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And if amoral Europeans can't bring themselves to do that out of idealistic reasons, they need to consider the pragmatic benefits. Look at this map and ask yourself why France is, outside Europe and the benighted U.S., the most popular country in the world.
by Matt in NYC on Wed Sep 13th, 2006 at 03:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The list of state officials who will be invited to testify in hearings in the following months is impressive. The TDIP may not have full judiciary powers but some of the testimony has been damning, such as in the case of Sismi chief Nicolò Pollari who practically admitted that the Italian government was aware of the CIA project to kidnap Abu Omar. (He testified that he refused to participate in the project, ergo a superior requested it.)

In the case of Member States' (and other countries') governments and officials, the TDIP Committee will invite, in the framework of its public hearings, only those persons who are currently in office and can speak on behalf of their governments. The TDIP Committee will decide on a further stage whether or not it is necessary to invite the former Members of Governments and/or officials who were in office when the alleged cases took place.

Noteworthy was the "showdown" in Washington when an official committee delegation was received at State. The State spokesperson charged committee members with conducting an inquisition and refused to answer questions on CIA kidnappings in Europe. Too bad the TDIP Committee doesn't have full investigative power. But even then as a Greek luminary quipped long ago, Justice is on the side of the powerful.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 at 06:21:45 PM EST


Display:
Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]