European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

Open Thread - Friday Evening

by whataboutbob
Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 10:58:27 AM EST

Open thread for any breaking news, comments, and so forth...

And by the way, although I have taken a sabbatical from regular gnome duties... I still want to take a moment to encourage all of our community members to keep writing diary articles (I mean, just because Jerome is back, don't be shy...you all did such a great job keeping this place going over the summer...).

Cheers!

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Open Thread - Friday Evening | 238 comments (238 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

By the way, our long time ET community member Melanchthon, has been working his butt the last year to put together this big conference in Lyon...which is soon to occur. I guess you have been too busy to blow your own horn, Mel, so I'll do it for you:

Check out this out website, which is in French, Spanish and English:

Forum For Responsible Globalization

http://www.global-economic-and-social-forum.com/

Set to occur from October 25th to October 28th in Lyon, France. It sure would be nice if we could have some folks attend it (hmm, wonder if we could have an ET table there? Though maybe its a bit too late for that...)

Melanchthon, if you are around, let us know what's going on there...

Here's the Objectives and topics covered page:

http://www.global-economic-and-social-forum.com/topics_2006/index.php

Hope it is a great success!!!

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 11:07:13 AM EST

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

This looks very worthwhile indeed.

A bit far to get to from here, unfortunately. Otherwise I'd happily spend a day there.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 04:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

Which is not to say I don't think the diaries we have now and have had lately aren't great...they are...I'm just greedy. More, more!!

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 11:15:55 AM EST

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

You got a little greedy with the triplenegatives there ;-P

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 11:39:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

<heh> should have left it with the keep it simple maxim....

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 11:48:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

No sentence is wrong without an unseemly restriction on negatives.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 01:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Tony Blair School of Government (none / 1)

The Guardian:
It's a school of government. Already, there's trouble (September 15, 2006)

Tony Blair has often taken his lead from Washington during his premiership. As he contemplates retirement, his staff are again looking west, seeking inspiration from the example of American presidents.
At Harvard there is the John F Kennedy Institution. Bill Clinton has his own foundation. Now Tony Blair, it seems, could have his own "school of government". According to academic and other sources, Jonathan Powell, the prime minister's chief of staff, has been sounding out the London School of Economics about the establishment of such a new body.
...
The response at the LSE was initially enthusiastic. But some academics question whether Mr Blair's involvement would compromise the university's independence. One said: "It would need to be de-Blairified before it could go ahead." The fear is that the retired prime minister might come to be indentified too closely with the LSE.

De-Blairification, now there's an idea.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 01:38:26 PM EST

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

This is London: Pressure mounts for 'ban' on zero-size models (September 15, 2006)

Pressure was mounting today for a catwalk ban on super-skinny models.
On the eve of London Fashion Week the growing trend for "size-zero" models in the fashion industry is causing grave concern.
...
They are urging London to follow the lead taken by Madrid -- and likely to be adopted by Milan -- of banning models below a certain size from the catwalks.
...
Sarah Doukas, founder of Storm, the London agency that employs Cole, hit back at the calls for a ban.
She said: "It is useless to talk about body mass indexes. Who knows what that means apart from your doctor?
"It depends on different body types. Some people have different muscle density.

Yeah, it's a doctor thing, so it's useless, unlike "muscle density", which is a very useful concept to weasel out of the discussion.

Also amusing is what The Times of London had to say about this last week (see the breakfast)

But pear-shaped females should not celebrate too heartily, for the leading names of world fashion are showing no sign of following in the Spaniards' footsteps. The Pasarela Cibeles trade fair in Madrid is a minnow compared with the big fish of Milan, Paris, New York and London fashion weeks.

Well, Milan is reportedly "likely" to follow siut already...

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 01:54:39 PM EST

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 1)

I sure hope they succeed. Why should I want to identify with a aprox. 17 year old anorexic. Isn't that the purpose of these fashion shows that we identify with the models and thus want to look like them and thus of course want to buy the clothes they are wearing.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (4.00 / 2)

Isn't that the purpose of these fashion shows that we identify with the models and thus want to look like them and thus of course want to buy the clothes they are wearing.

No, the purpose is to make as many as possible feel unhappy about themselves and thereby produce the need to shop for beauty and happiness. So the more inaccesible the ideal is, the better.

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:57:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (4.00 / 2)

Making us unhappy is the job of all advertising for non-essential consumer products - otherwise It wouldn't work. The promise made in every ad of this sort is that life will be better (read 'happier') when you buy what we're selling.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 04:24:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (4.00 / 3)

Don't be silly. Economics clearly show that advertising is purely informative and has no effect on consumer preferences.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 04:26:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

If only ;-)

Oi vey...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 05:04:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

I watched one of the 9-11 conspiracy videos today. At least with the Pentagon crash and flight 93, they make a very good point: the debris and targets in the crashes do not look the way they should.

I used to test aircraft engines for Prattt and Whitney and sat at dozens of enquiries about air crashes and I've never seen debris like that of those two crashes.

It's a google video called "Loose Change"

by manon (m@gmail.com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:02:28 PM EST

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

The conspiracy thing just doesn't seem to go away. Today's headline of the 'Blick' was, it is not yet online, so I do not know what it is really about - 'Schweizer Uni-Forscher stellen heisse Fragen:
9/11: Steckt doch der Bush-Clan dahinter?' (Swiss Universitiy researchers are asking hot questions: 9/11: is the Bush-Clan yet behind it?

I know it is the Blick, I saw the headling while waiting in line at the supermarket - it is equivalent to the Bild in Germany and I think the Mirror in the UK - but still, the topic is not going away.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:13:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

well, the thing that convinced me about this movie was at the Pentagon crash, they showed the hole in the wall caused by the plane. There was no way that a 727 went into that hole because it was about 10 metres high and about 5 metres wide. I mean, what about the wings?

The wings weren't lying on the ground either. There was just no wreckage. To me, it was really that simple

by manon (m@gmail.com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (4.00 / 3)

I don't know what the truth is, but I am convinced that the official version is not true. Why should a government that lies when ever they open their mouth, tell the truth in this one thing. Besides there are just to many question marks and unanswered questions.

It makes sense to me what you describe about the pentagon crash. Just wondering if we will ever find out the truth. Maybe with the internet it might be possible, as information can not be hidden as easily anymore.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

another thing I wanted to "investigate" is that the first plane hitting the World Trade Centre doesn't look like a plane. The second one does, but the first really doesn't. Now that I have downloaded the video, I can stop and freeze the frame.

If you're intested, look at video.google.com

The one I was watching was Loose Change but if you google 9-11, you should be able to get a few others, including those that debunk the debunkers.

by manon (m@gmail.com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:25:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (4.00 / 3)

1. I've gone through the following process: Initially being in disbelief and offended by the idea that our own govt could do this (many of my friends were suggesting it just weeks after the event.) To thinking that it was not planned, but gross negligence by the Bush Admin (remember that PDB?). To thinking they knew it would happen and did nothing to stop it because it would benefit them. To being open to the possibility, or even probability that the Admin was involved in the orchestration of the event.

I think my best guess right now is that knew it would happen and did nothing to stop it because it would benefit them.

One simply cannot comprehend just how well they have benefitted from the attacks. Almost nothing this administration has done can be even remotely justified without 9-11.

But I've always been pretty liberal and pretty open to conspiracies. I will say this on behalf of the American people: it is difficult to wrap your brain around the fact that the people who are supposed to be protecting your safety, your way of life, your country, are actually out to kill you. Minorities, draftees, etc have experienced this. But for most Americans, the idea that we could be attacked, militarily, by our own White House, in a time of peace, requires such a shift of consciousness that it may take decades or centuries to accept that.

It reminds me of a story I heard about Columbus' ships arriving in the Americas and the native peoples not seeing them on the horizon because they simply had no reference in their psyches to recognize them.

Here is a reference to that legend.
http://www.empowermentillustrated.com/mtarchive/000663.html

I don't know if it is true, but it sounds appropriate to explain much of what is happening now.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:35:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Friday Evening (none / 0)

i had that shift happen while watching a documentary on pbs in the 80's (very late at night, when all good drones are slumbering), about the christic institute eand their investigations into cia cocaine smuggling and the huge rise of coke use in the usa.

nancy 'eyes apopping' reagan was touring the schools wisely enjoining the children to 'just say no', like the compassionate soul she was, and there on the tv was a damning document with bush senior's john hancock on it.

right there, on my tv, in america!

i always loved phil donahue and 60 minutes, but this was a whole new level.

i never doubted for an instant that 9-11 was a false flag....it was too spielberg to be anything else...

i still have a touching faith in the moon landing, santa claus and the tooth fairy!

oh yes, and that we will pull our collective cranium outta our collective rear end one fine, sunny day...

9-11 changed everything...i became a news junkie (and stopped reading fiction.....)

i know a third act-opener when i see one, and the stagecraft of this saudi moriarty served as a rousing wake-up call.

to what?

1984 - the sequel?

i'll let you know after a long, refreshing nap...

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 08:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh for God's sake (none / 0)

These arguments have been debunked a number of times, here and elsewhere.

Please, no conspiracy theories here on ET. I don't intend to ban anyone on this like on dKos, but I find the topic tasteless, pointless and mindless.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh for God's sake (4.00 / 4)

I think that if we are going to refer to ourselves as "reality based" we have an obligation to find out what "reality" is. Even when we find it tasteless.

I find Kos' policy regarding the topic appalling.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Fri Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:59:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]