European Tribune

The Era of Globalisation is (almost) over

by Helen
Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 10:17:32 AM EST

This has become an unexpectedly distopian diary. Sorry, but it became more pessimistic as I wrote it.  I'm not a deep researcher or facts person so this is more of a set of contestable assertions that are there to prompt a conversation about how actual the threat really is.

-----------------------------------

In my comments on various threads I've occasionally referred to the end of globalisation being imminent as an accepted concept amongst us. However I put it into a thread on Sunday and Migeru responded that it was an interesting idea and wanted me to put some flesh on the bones.

There are three aspects to my belief that the whole globablisation project is fast running onto rocks and that economies which are too dependent upon it are likely to suffer  unrecoverable damge.

These are;-

Globalisation is dependent upon cheap transportation

Goods manufactured by cheap labour has to be transported to areas of consumption, which are invariably areas of expensive labour.  Whilst transportation costs are relatively low globalising tactics can continue apace.

However, we may be gradually returning to the not-so-distant era where only high-profit value goods were worth tranporting long distances. As Jerome's many articles state, the era of cheap fuel will soon be over. Prices may rise in a catastrophic surge from an unexpected supply shock or they continue to drift up well ahead of inflation levels as global demand increases in the next couple of years. Either way, the energy relationships of 2010 will not resemble those of 2006. And if the low profit goods such as cheap clothes and shoes and out of season strawberries don't make it any more, then practically all of the ratinalisation for globalisation falls through the floor.

Tax Regimes

Of course, the real reason for globalisation isn't the movement of goods, but the free movement of capital. As I discussed in my diary here
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/9/4/104317/7025
tax regimes in the global economy are being "reformed" to allow the vast sums of Corporate profit to move beyond taxation control into artificially maintained low-tax and unregulated zones where totally corrupt and less corrupt money may mingle and multiply.

Unfortunately to pay for the benefits that make civic society bearable, taxation must disproportionately fall on other revenue streams such as that of working and middle class people. This has led to an increasing burden on the middle classes in the USA over the last 25 years who are finding that health care and education are becoming  unaffordable, a trend that is likely to be repeated elsewhere as the aggressive anglo-American economic model erodes the growth capabilities of alternate models.

This has also had a knock-on effect on the quality of democracy. As critics of the book "What's the matter with Kansas ?" have pointed out, Kansas doesn't vote republican because the poor vote against their vested interest. Increasingly faced with parties who all kow-tow to globalised interests, the poor are simply failing to vote at all, leaving the republicans to win. This is becoming increasingly true in the UK where there is a choice between two neo-conservative Atlanticist parties with no substantive policy differences in any critical area of economic approach.

Henry Ford always argued for high wages stating that he needed people who could afford to buy his cars. For years Corporates have assumed that they can cut their own costs by shedding staff and reducing wages as some other company will pay staff a decent wage to keep the market operating. However, this attack on their take-home pay and employment chances means that the numerous middle class and wealthier working classes have less disposable income to fund the necessary market turnover. Finally greed has caught up with them, there's nobody left to afford their products apart from the vanishing few who've sucked up all the money. And you can't keep an economy running on the spending of one percent
of the population.

Global Warming

Unless the more alarmist predictions are accepted this is the least urgent of the three. Nevertheless we are approaching a time of substantial weather-related disruption to trading patterns.

Agriculture will struggle to provide the volumes of food needed to prevent starvation as weather patterns become unstable and unpredictable. If the retreat of glaciers continues apace then agriculture may also find itself pressed for sufficient irrigation as rivers dry up during summer, particularly in areas such as S England and Spain where the aquifers have been aggressively over-utilised as "short-term" measures. If substantial melting occurs in Greenland and Siberia, not only will sea levels rise substantially, but methane out-gassing will occur on an unprecedented scale exacerbating the situation.

As the waters rise, coastal and floodplain developments will be inundated, ports may become unusable as facilities flood too regularly.

So we face a concatenation of three trends, each of which, even the consequences of peak oil, could be avoided if only political will were available. Sadly, due to the increasing disenfranchisment of those who might make a difference, we are left with the politics of those who've created the situation. So, no change in direction will be forthcoming in the timescales necessary to prevent disaster.

Thus I conclude the Era of Globalisation is effectively over. Maybe not today, maybe not next year, but well within a decade the lights will start to go out and we will have a nightfall the like humankind has never experienced.


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I got to 'We're pretty much screwed, aren't we?' at the start of the year.

Humans en masse seem to lack the cognitive and hormonal capacity to deal effectively with large issues like these. The default is to assume that things are unlikely to change drastically because they haven't done so in living memory, and to continue to parse the world using simplistic narratives that are easily manipulated by the predator class.

If none of this were true, blogs like ET would be the rule and not the exception, and policy would be made based on multi-decade or even longer time scales.

Put crudely, there's a minority that are too greedy to care, and a majority that are too stupid to model reality effectively.

On the positive side that majority isn't overwhelming. There's a significant minority that understands the issues and wants to do someting about them. But until some of the rest can be persuaded to understand what's happening, they'll remain a dead-weight boat anchor dragging the future down with them.

And at this point we're badly losing the Narrative Wars. Fundie religions and tribal nationalisms of all stripes are becoming more popular. The Left no longer seems to have any good stories to tell to oppose these - beyond a steady trickle of outrage, which is nowhere close to enough.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 10:35:36 AM EST
Humans en masse seem to lack the cognitive and hormonal capacity to deal effectively with large issues like these. The default is to assume that things are unlikely to change drastically because they haven't done so in living memory, and to continue to parse the world using simplistic narratives that are easily manipulated by the predator class.
Even individually we lack the capacity to deal with these issues, and the average behaviour of the mass is bound not to be very sophisticated.

The simplest prediction about the future is "everything will be as it is right now". The next simplest prediction is "trends will be as they are right now". This is essentially an esercise in curve-fitting. The length of the look-back and the degree of the curve can increase, but the more complex the "model" the more evidence one needs to have against the simpler ones in order to even consider it. Plus, the uncertainty in the predictions grows with complexity. Collective behaviour is based on some sort of average where the simplest models have an overwhelming weight.

Abrupt, discontinuous changes just don't seem to be part of the picture, either individually or collectively. One would need some sort of systems view of the whole thing [sort of like the models used by the Club of Rome in their famous, and ignored, Limits of Growth]. And, again, the weight of Occam's razor and the amount of evidence contrary to simple alternatives that is needed is overwhelming.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:06:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm never happy hearing about the stupid others and the (more) intelligent us, because I (being hignorant) spend most of my time one of the others.

I come to every idea late, and rely on people more intelligent than me at every turn to help me find the advantage(s) in situations.

Point One: People believe that in a hierarchical system, the responsibility (and the kudos and the skills) to solve major problems lies "up there" at the top of the hierarchy.

We all demonstrate this in our working lives.

Point Two: We have a never-before-dreamt-of wealth of knowledge, materials, and machines with which to radically alter our environments.  They change all the time.  People expect tomorrow to be like today, but if all supermarkets closed down and food was rationed and delievered by electric vans, this wouldn't be too much of a change (in the overall curve of wake-up-breakfast-weather-do-something-go-home-do-something-sleep.)

Point Three:  I think overall that modern cities (with 100,000+ populations) are unhealthy places that lead to overcrowding, over-population, and other over- things.  Cities with 1,000,000,000+ populations are worse, and those above 10,000,000,000 are even worse unless you can afford to live in them as though they were no bigger than 50,000 or so.  There will be ideal sizes for various communal groupings and usages, and a move away from the motor car--with our current high level of tech. knowledge--would facilitate these developments--zero emission houses with sodded-over roofs, etc.

Point Four: Those who dislike "hippy" (green) back to basics initiatives tend to a more dystopian view because...nature is our historic root.  We are biologically primed for green leaves, brown trunks, the sound of streams, the wind in the branches, beer, etc.  The alien (and satisfying to the brain but few other parts of the body) elements are: electricity; screens; headphones; tin boxes (aka cars) etc...

Point Five: A society that dislikes nature is dysfunctional.  Nature programmes abound; children first learn about Old MacDonald and his cat, duck, and pig (oink oink!).

Point Six:  The exhaust fumes of cars are straight pollution.

Point Seven:  "Western" living standards could "fall" a long way and I don't think people would notice.  They might moan at first (like the kid who has eaten ten chocolate bars a day for ten years), but then they'd forget and get on with...life.  Radical change means: no shelter; no warmth; two meals or less a day; no protection from illness

Point Eight: Super bugs!

Point Nine:  I have made far too many points!

Here is a picasso.  I wanted to say something about curves, lines, and the complexities involved in human endeavours.  So: check the lines.  Are they simple, or are they complex?  And do they add up to something simple, or something complex?  (Picasso=master of the line):



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:31:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Point One: People believe that in a hierarchical system, the responsibility (and the kudos and the skills) to solve major problems lies "up there" at the top of the hierarchy.

We all demonstrate this in our working lives.

Frans de Waal argues that you cannot put more than three people in the same room without a hierarchy develping, "it's automatic".

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:34:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the one who gets told to shut up will expect the others to make the decisions?

(or: if you think I'm too dumb to understand, why blame me when I don't?)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:45:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only in circumstances where the others are the best choice for action. Different people will take the lead in different situations if the hierarchy hasn't become artificially established.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:54:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Humans are very good at entrenching hierarchies, though.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:55:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is that bad habit to consider - it's not as  pronounced in small groups though. I suspect if it isn't culturally expected it's possibly not terminal.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:57:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I (for my sins--I think I must have done something very bad) worked at American Express, their declared rule was:

"You have to do one year in your job."

Didn't matter if you could show after one week you could move up.

Another rule of theirs was:

"A Level 4 will never listen to the arguments of a Level 3."

No, you had to convince your Level 4 (your manager) who would then take your (oops, her) proposal to the relevant Level 4.

I mean, I agree with you 100%.  For functional hierarchies fluidity is key.  I just haven't seen many in the workplace (where money is involved, I mean.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:59:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But the hierarchy is generally fluid. Most naturally occurring hierarchies are: neither dog, wolf nor horse hierarchies are fixed - they're context dependent.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:45:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can move from Division 4 to Division 2, but you won't never top the Premiership.  Ergo, leaders are "better" (no matter how) at holding power (and passing it on) and so are from the bottom the attitude is: you get the perks; you change things.

Which doesn't work to the benefit of those below, of course.

(Thirteen year side rant which ends up older and wiser in a workers co-operative.)

(Hey!  I think ET should be a workers' Cooperative!  Seriously!  I'm not sure what that means, but I'm sure it's the solution to all ET-shaped woes.)

I train basic skills.  And the typical comment when a new (well-paid) management decision comes down is, "I wish they'd just come and have a go at what we do for a while."

Which is sometimes a cop-out, but more often a recognition that, say, the Degree Bar is growing and rising not falling.

Ach, this ain't true in small businesses and on cutting edges, but I've done plenty a' jobs where they asked for a degree, but a fourteen-year-old could do the necessary tasks.  The degree is a "class" thing--yes, I have been thinking about this and "class" is (or is it race?  Or are they linked?)

Ach!  Argh!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:56:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can move from Division 4 to Division 2, but you won't never top the Premiership.

Not true in small groups, which is the natural space where our instincts are meant to play out. Once we start building structures to manage larger groups you're right, but that's not what Migeru was talking about.

The point is that one dog might lead the hunt, another might take charge meeting another group or in a different area where they were more confident or skilled. The narrative of animal hierarchies is largely imposed from a human viewpoint conditioned by our artificial hierarchies.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We're back to that subject that someone translated as "bollocks again"...

Could we get ET agreement that humans are animals?

I thought migeru was making a point about mass behaviours reducing to simplistic judgements.

I like this from The Men in Black:

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.
[To Agent J] 1500 years ago, everyone knew that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everyone knew that the Earth was flat. 15 minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow.


Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:15:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not really. If you're going to accept that humans are animals, then we act like animals. One of our animal behaviours is liking to know the structure of the pack around us. It's an efficient way of avoiding conflict.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we act like humans, and humans are animals.  I'm 50% nemotode worm.  Well, more like 85% in my case.

My personal vanity is that deep in my ancestral past there was a love fest between a gorilla and a bonobo.

I can tempt myself with the theory that humans are the result of various mixings and matchings between various members of the monkey kingdom, hence we find some people similar to natural "soul mates", and others completely incomprehensible--and this has no money, class, colour, etc. bar.

But then I saw a picture of our real ancestor in a book of art by Ralph Steadman.  I can't find the picture, but here's a picture of the book.

Based on an un-rose-tinted view of actual human behviour, I suggest our nearest ancestor is not the furry chimp but is in fact:

(Hat tip to William Burroughs)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:42:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see I got lost in the threads...

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, I'd say far too many people cop-out when they have the chance to affect change--and don't coz it's easier not to be bothered.

And many have (for me irrational) fears about acting without specific orders.

Status anxiety?  

There's a whole cloud of crazy lightning...  

'Tis easy to be right when one cannae make decisions either way.

Yipes!



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:06:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Status anxiety?  

There's a whole cloud of crazy lightning...

Which drives most of our "economic" behaviour. Isn't it fun?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ker

splush.

(I was having this conversation with a couple of friends.  It started out somewhere but ended up there and whizz bang woah!  It's  fun the way powder cocaine is fun, I think.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
some people are more organised in their thought-processes.

these perceive ways in which labour can be more efficient, and those less organised show their gratitude at having to work less by rewarding the more canny with less work and more time to organise.

and it all goes downhill from there...

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:50:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would say he is wrong and I base it on personal experience. I have been a member of a group that worked without hierarchy and where all the ways of democratical decision making came natural. We also could agree to disagree.

But that was once, and that group has long since been disolved.

So he is not all wrong, but I would modify his thesis to extreemly likely for a hierachy to develop.

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 03:34:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Point Five: A society that dislikes nature is dysfunctional.  Nature programmes abound; children first learn about Old MacDonald and his cat, duck, and pig (oink oink!).
I am seriously disturbed how quickly small children learn about racing cars, rockets and weapons.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:36:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't remember racing cars coming up... (boy/girl toy placement?)

Rockets--to the moon?  The moon is fantasy land!  And it's made of cheese!  We still have an invisible alien living in our place.

Weapons I think of as direct action.  Boxing gloves are better than catapults, and catapults are better than guns, and guns are better than bombs...each one is greater power (hypothetical) over larger distances.

The Action Man range has soldiers straight out of Iraq...same kit...and firefighters with huge arms...

But, like Barbies, they can be (I thought of "mocked" or "ridiculed"--my take on barbie, "But she doesn't do anything except put clothes on and take them off.  So we have Brats.  At least they made a CD.  (The musicians are finns!)

Clubs are better than guns, I think.  Large, foam, knobbly ones.  Boink boink!


Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:49:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Clubs are better than guns, I think.  Large, foam, knobbly ones.  Boink boink!

As a fencer, I'm partial to wacky-wackers (foam sabres).

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:57:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One day, senor, we will fence!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll take that as a challenge, so I suppose I get to pick the weapon?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:09:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course!

What do you suggest?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Name your weapon!"

"I name my weapon Frank!"

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:24:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suggest my visits to Hove are going to be a whole lotta fun. Go and fencing _and ET, for the price of a cheap day return ticket.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:32:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I live close to Hove...

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:34:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually.

(Someone had to do it.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 02:41:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i too was horrified at my son's instant propensity for products of heavy industry...the same behemoths that filled me with shudders of peak-oil premonitions would make him chortle with bliss!

don't get me started on the war toys...

i used to blame that on the gi-joe mentality of 80's america, and used to wonder if the reason the kids loved trucks, (the bigger the better), was because the intuitive little darlings realised that if those mofos stopped running we'd all be up shit creek lookin for crabs, or in hawaii, learning to scale coconut trees really swift-like.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:56:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm never happy hearing about the stupid others and the (more) intelligent us, because I (being hignorant) spend most of my time one of the others.
I never said people are stupid. In fact, my point would rather be that, even if the problem were approached perfectly rationally, I wouldn't expect the result to be very different.
Here is a picasso.  I wanted to say something about curves, lines, and the complexities involved in human endeavours.  So: check the lines.  Are they simple, or are they complex?  And do they add up to something simple, or something complex?  (Picasso=master of the line):
Ha! you humble me every time.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:39:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Humbling you would be orthogonal to my intention.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 07:40:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have to say that while I agree with your arguments, I disagree with your conclusion.

I believe that globalisation is only just beginning.

I think you miss the most important trend behind globalisation and that is communications generally and the Internet specifically.

I am sure you are right, particularly in terms of the transport of individuals and commodities/goods but all of the trends you identify can be dealt with.

What the Internet does - through what I call "Napsterisation" is to connect people in what I call "Society 3.0".

"Society 1.0" was decentralised but disconnected and characterised by our physical interaction: our current "Society 2.0"  is centralised but connected, and characterised by our interaction through intermediaries.

So in a "peer to peer" Society 3.0 we will have a "network presence" and interaction.

I believe that such interaction is already beginning to create economic value an order of magnitude greater than what has preceded it and it is only the legal and cultural barriers we have erected which are holding us back.

Specifically we need new - disintermediated - financial systems which are not based upon deficit and artificially created scarcity.  Plus non-hierarchical enterprise models where it is more profitable to co-operate than to compete.

Fortunately these appear to be emerging, and just in time.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:19:26 AM EST
this is the single ray of light in a dark composition...i fully agree with this comment, chris, and i for one am very glad to have you here, specifically for your ability to make -in my view - visionary comments like this one.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 12:00:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This connectedness as a solution to globalisation doesn't convince me as, however attractive, it's a social model, not an economic one.

I have yet to see a realistic vision of a global economy of knowledge trading. Economic creativity over distance will remain a minority sport, most of humanity will still have to indulge in the grubby job of making a living in face to face hands-on activity.

Personally I don't view the necessity of finding an alternative to the globalisation project as a bad thing, indeed there is much to commend it, but I fear that due to the lack of preparedness the ending will be bloody and painful. And clearing up the mess will be the challenge of our lifetime.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 05:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Knowledge trading is tied down and not fulfilling its potentialbecause of the whole proprietary "Intellectual Property" phenomenon.

But that is exactly what is changing, and the enabling factor will IMHO be a new take on intellectual property rights.

ie an enterprise model which is neither "closed"proprietary copyright nor "open"/GNU/copyleft but "Common Source" .

That is where the "Open Corporate" I talk about comes in. ie a non-hierarchical partnership-based enterprise model which is both open and closed.

Closed because only members can use IP embedded in it, but "open" because anyone who signs up to the member agreement can join.

See
http://www.opencapital.net/papers/Valueknowledge-based.pdf

if that sort of thing is of interest.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 05:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Knowledge trading is tied down and not fulfilling its potentialbecause of the whole proprietary "Intellectual Property" phenomenon.

No, this is pure wishful thinking. There's comparatively little genuine innovation in areas where IP isn't an issue. There's a huge amount of me-too copycat work, but genuine innovation is much rarer in (for example) the Open Source software movement than it is within corporations and formally funded academic departments. (And considering how little innovation happens within corporations, that's not impressive.)

It's a substantial failure of imagination to try to divorce information from the social and industrial structures that make its exchange possible.

Information doesn't grow food, mine or process raw materials, or assemble the shiny toys on which we all blog. In the West we can delude ourselves that these activities don't matter because all we see is the end products. But the products only exist because there's a web of physical, economic, social and political relationships that make them possible.

The point about climate change is that it has the potential to make all of these relationships run far less smoothly. Some of them may stop altogether.

An Open Corporate system won't change this. Given the huge energy and resource costs of laptops and servers, IT and global communications are likely to be one of the first things to go in a physically stressed culture, not one of the last.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 06:34:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The enterprise model I advocate is entirely independent of the communications infrastructure of course.

And in fact decentralisation is in-built.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 06:45:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
An information and knowledge economy independent of communication infrastructure?

How is that going to work, exactly?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 07:18:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Abacus and carrier pigeon.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 07:19:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If communications infrastructure breaks down, then the information and knowledge economy slows right down.

The point I am making is that a partnership-based enterprise model (ie the legal and financial structure) is independent of the communications available.

That is why I am interested in introducing these concepts - which are already emerging here - in "third world" countries where they have never got out of the position we fear we will return to.

 

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 07:59:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i see where you're coming from, but i disagree.

look at tvs, they have become the opium pipe of the poor worldwide, they transmit cultural messages like no other medium before them, and need very little maintenance, considering how many hours they run.

i see computers, esp. laptops, following this model eventually, and taking over the niches tv occupies.

you could even see it as computer facilities added on to tvs.

the joy on an indian villager's face as he raptly watches the one village tv, or the excitement that comes when an african or tongan village goes online, is impressive to see.

they are not alone any more

their voices can join the swelling hullabaloo, they will not be abandoned, sticking their intellectual thumbs out by the side of the info-highway!

pedaling away their microgenerators, they peruse cnn news online just like a latte-sipping limo liberal in uptown manhattan...

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 11:45:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
at worst, connectedness helps us know what's going on, though some of that is truly agonising to take on board...raising public awareness

at best connectedness will help us parse politics and make governments more accountable, encouraging peoples' power to affect their reps and effect concrete, positive changes through group energy.  

the more people communicate, the more common sense emerges...

what's sven's name for it again?

self-organising principle?

the more traffic intellectually powering a site, the better the range of ideas to improve it?

fusion of information streams...

the faster the flow, the cleaner the river?

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 11:31:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the more people communicate, the more common sense emerges...

In an ideal world I'd be happy with a purely knowledge based economy. A bit of permaculture to grow the food, sustainable energy to power the lights, and lots of free time to share ideas and creativity online - nothing about this sounds bad.

But I don't believe common sense emerges from people communicating. I think it's more likely that communication enhances the direction in which you're already going. If you're thoughtful and like thinking stuff through, it makes it easier to be thoughtful and think stuff through. If you're a raging hate-filled bigot, it makes it easier to find other hate-filled bigots to rage with.

Online communities tend to coagulate around shared interests and values. They don't seem to cross-pollinate much. We probably wouldn't welcome Red Staters or Freepers on ET. They certainly wouldn't welcome us in their communities.

So communication in the abstract - and I mean mojo and status as well as posting and discussion - is often just entertainment unless there's some kind of formal reality-checking to connect it with the real world.

Everyone believes they do that reality checking by default. Unfortunately I think it's rarer than we all want it to be.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 03:53:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But I don't believe common sense emerges from people communicating.

i take your point, and appreciate your thoughtful reply.

yes there is a lot of self-reinforcing of memes, in meatspace and online, however, for those who like to break new ground in search of authenticity, the web serves as a quantum leap in curiosity satisfaction.

good ideas need to be seeded into collective communication by individuals for cross-pollination, so wiki-like aggregates form on the positive side, just as, unfortunately due to ignorance and lack of proper education and especially nurture of emotional intelligence, aggregates form on the negative.

as ET, or any yahoo group with a good message, acts as strange attractor for diverse but kindred spirits, bonded by affection and ideals, these interchanges allow us to sharpen our communication, paring superfluity, and focussing our will-for-change.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 04:35:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
whole globablisation project

Just for the avoidance of doubt, which meaning of "globalisation" do you intend?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:20:24 AM EST
10 PN points to Colman.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:36:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
While I'd be glad to accept them, it's an honest point of confusion. Globalisation means at least three different things.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:41:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cunning. "Define your terms...scratch beard...look wise (spell dystopian incorrectly). :-)))

Anyway, wiki does the job

Globalization or globalisation is an umbrella term for a complex series of economic, social, technological, cultural and political changes seen as increasing interdependence, integration and interaction between people and companies in disparate locations

Essentially I see the whole thing unravelling to a greater or lesser extent. I see us back to the sorts of transport inter-activities that might have been typical before the first world war.

Yes, global activity will continue electronically, but the Global Corporate as we know it now will simply cease to exist. It will have no rationale to support it.

shrugs shoulders, "stuff like that", she mumbles aimlessly

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 05:14:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if you are going to write a dystopia, at least write it well!

and you did...

i feel a numbing anger when i see the silly effects of globalisation, such as the great desire of african nations to join the ratrace to produce the cheapest raw materials for middlemen to screw them, all so as to get strawberries in january onto europe's tables.

jet-fresh...

so europe's farmlands return to wilderness....

it just doesn't make any longterm sense at all.

studying the economics and international politics of oil, the coming slalom down the dark side of hubbard's peak seems like the greatest challenge humanity has ever faced...

the details explored here sometimes remind me of the fascination edgar allen poe's victim in 'the pit and the pendulum' had for the ever-descending swinging blade approaching his lashed-down, spread-eagled body.

i used to have nightmares about that short story, so dark its tone, yet so brilliantly written.

when i was 18 i used to have dreams in which i was a sheepskin-clad cavedweller, from which i would awaken puzzled.

i no longer am puzzled; it seems more likely that those dreams, like others i've had, were also prophetic.

i used to think i was only suffering from a specialised paranoia; i have been feeling the world was going to turn upside down since around 1975, it has been an ascending spiral of tension within me ever since then, with occasional slight respite.

there is a fantastically funny movie called 'the gods must be crazy' which i cannot recommend highly enough. it perfectly captures the folly and irony in our concepts of progress and civilisation, and reveals so much that is true about the human condition, in all its tragic goofiness.

the same kind of alfred newmann witlessness so generously displayed in the visage of the present misleader of the 'free(-er)' world, in all its gormless glory...

i too tremble with horror at the thought we are about to get what we deserve, and some days it is almost too much to bear for the rational mind.

so i am perched on an umbrian hillside, trying to learn about alternative energy off the net!

good news, i have found a buyer for the cottage, and now will be able to do my yurt village thing, hopefully to be inviting ET-ers to come and help me test drive the operation next summer.

i will go completely solar, 3 kw, with trackers to capture 15-30% more sun, and will be paid 3x per kw what they charge me by enel.

i'll install a 5 kw chinese diesel generator underground running off biodiesel, which can be delivered and i'll store in a 2000L tank.

this'll also run the tractor.

so in these little ways i subvert the depression demon's ability to undermine my will to face the future.

it still feels ridiculously inconsequential compared to the starkness of the issue, but at least it's something.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:43:50 AM EST
I fear you've been reading too much Houellebecq.

"C'est un scandale !"
by redstar on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 02:22:59 PM EST
I fear you've been reading too much Houellebecq

Ain't that some fancy french liqueur ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 05:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 
Don't despair. Life always wins the argument with death and decay, maybe not in ways we predict, but it is always the strongest force. You are right to link these three things together- cheap fossil fuel based transportation created both global warming and global extreme free market capitalism, which concentrated profits in the hands of a small multinational elite who think they are beyond the control of both society and nature. It's an aberration, not an inevitability.

Yet I think this positive feedback loop just might end with a whimper, not a bang like the poet said. And it won't be all that hard to adjust to- I'm old enough to remember just how good life can be without piles of plastic junk from Wal-Mart, or three hour commutes to gated exurbs. The weakest point is the money flow, and the greedy few will likely screw that up sooner or later.

ChrisCook and melo are right; the real globalization will eventually be in world-wide human communication networks and in sustainable, de-centralized, renewable energy and agriculture.

So everybody get back to work now, and don't despair.

by dorothy in oz on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 02:30:15 PM EST
  1. If we mean by globalization the post war period where the west got to dictate the rules of international trade, then that has come to an end. The west is still trying to dictate the rules, but it is increasingly failing. Furthermore new power centers like China are reducing the power of the IMF and related institutions.

  2. The issue of whether democracy is a viable form of governance never ends. One of the current difficulties is the inability of the average person to evaluate the data (assuming it is even available). So which is better, more coal or more nuclear power? How are we even to decide? How about fighting malaria with DDT vs netting?

  3. Can the human race sacrifice today for the benefit of the unborn? Obviously yes, it has done so in the past. However, can a pampered over fed, self indulgent society shift to sacrifice, especially when their leaders are not asking for it? Not so far.


Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape
by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 03:42:17 PM EST
Needed saying.  

Gets my recommend.  

Thank you!  

by Gaianne on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 07:58:13 PM EST
I agree with the poster above that globalisation is probably just beginning.

And not so new, either: How is buying cars from Japan all that different from buying spices from the Orient via international trade--starting in 800 BCE? How is a dollar-based global currency today all that different from a Spanish peso in the 15th century? How is immigration-emmigration so new given the migrations that drastically changed the population mix of Europe and America (and Aisa)?

The whole "Globalisation Is New" theme needs to be deconstructed.

by asdf on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 10:21:17 PM EST
Could use editing, to fix obvious conflict between first sentence and remainder of text. I'm having a problem with this lately, even after using Preview. Just impatient, I guess, and/or dyslexic or something...

Anyway, globalisation is not new, was what I was trying to say.

by asdf on Tue Sep 19th, 2006 at 10:23:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(which is far too close to the bottom) is indeed a huge problem for Western workes.  Henry Ford was right.  Societies with the top 5% having all the money don't create much beyond estate homes, food and slums.

But I disagree that energy costs will make long distance trade cost prohibitive.

The cost of moving containers of goods around is trivial compared to the cost of the labor input.  Even using American flag freight into doghole ports in Hawaii, a 40 ft container only costs about $6000 for an individual and far less for a big shipper.  I'm going to guess you can get 30 T shirts in a cubic foot, and such a container contains roughly 2200 ft3.  so cost per shirt is under a dime.  raise fuel by 10X and you can still afford to move that work to a low labor cost market.  

by HiD on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:08:01 AM EST
But I disagree that energy costs will make long distance trade cost prohibitive.

This is true, and I'm always confused by the contention that it will. What may become too expensive is mass shipping of stuff by air. Those fresh Kenyan peas might not be an economic proposition in the UK.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:16:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't even think airfreight will be affected that much.

what WILL be endangered first is the whole "just-in-time" model with logistics relying exclusively on massive truck fleets running around all the time.
If the "warehouse on wheels" model becomes more expensive, then new logistical chains based on proximity may become competitive again despite higher costs for other inputs.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 09:33:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have always thought "Just in time" was no way to run a logistics operation.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 09:46:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but it saves a fortune on capital employed not to have bins of parts laying around all over.

If the cost of immediate transport rises, we can go back to rail + 3 weeks inventory.  Rail moves stuff with very little energy use/lb.

by HiD on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:28:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's once again (narrowly defined monetary) efficiency vs. resilience. Some amount of inventory allows the chain to keep running even if one link or two suffers a temporary disruption.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:38:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One issue with just-in-time manufacturing process is that large trucks idle at the side of the road waiting for their delivery times.
by asdf on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 11:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But I disagree that energy costs will make long distance trade cost prohibitive.

I didn't say it would make it prohibitive, but that trade would return to the shipping of high-profit goods as pre-WW1.

My major concern is not with the movement of goods by water. It is the cost of transportation and warehousing once on-land cost-hikes kick in. I simply cannot see the current distribution systems surviving, nor do I see any viable replacement being like-for-like. that kills the cheap T-shirt model stone-dead. No good moving stuff to Southampton or wherever if you can't get it to shops in London or Manchester in any reasonable time-frame.

This probably means that in the short term ie 20 - 30 years, the system will collapse almost entirely simply becuase the replacements will not be ready in time.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:40:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Trains? Hybrid bio-diesel trucks? Movement by water into the cities again - barges up the Thames?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All of those are viable replacements for parts of the current transport chain. But the organically developed inter-connectivity simply doesn't exist and it will be the interfaces that fail.

Also I think that costs will rise such that moving low-profit goods such a basic foodstuffs will make no sense beyond local markets. We may be back to horse and cart within 30 - 40 years.

No bad thing, particularly in Ireland where the horse never went out of fashion. but it'll be a disaster in the UK where most centres of population couldn't cope.


keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 06:25:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
moving low-profit goods such a basic foodstuffs will make no sense beyond local markets

That's quite likely. Especially if the price of artificial fertilisers become prohibitive or we just decide organic makes more sense.

But the organically developed inter-connectivity simply doesn't exist and it will be the interfaces that fail.

I don't know about that: we're awfully good and some of this stuff when we want to be. This sort of problem market forces can at least start to solve if the incentives are there.

However, I doubt we'll be back to horse and cart: that's a really, really expensive - and dangerous -  way of moving stuff around if you're going to maintain any level of animal welfare. Electric milk floats are more likely.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 06:34:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
However, I doubt we'll be back to horse and cart: that's a really, really expensive - and dangerous -  way of moving stuff around if you're going to maintain any level of animal welfare. Electric milk floats are more likely.

Okay, that was probably unrealistic. However it does beg the question of how agriculture will be done if the diesel engine becomes uneconomic. Ploughing would be a real bugger.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 07:06:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Using algae ponds to make biofuels for tractors.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 07:15:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What is wrong with extension cords for tractors? Are you familiar with the level of technology used in central-pivot irrigation systems? Extending this approach to electric powered implements is straightforward, and simply waiting for the costs to make sense.
by asdf on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 12:02:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Central pivot irrigation rules, and I have wondered in the past why one couldn't do central-pivot ploughing, too.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:39:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I doubt we'll be back to horse and cart

They never stopped using them here.  Horse carts, donkey carts... I see them every day, just cruising along in traffic.  I don't have a picture of one handy, but this guy does.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:12:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Has anyone had any success breeding their car lately?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All of those are viable replacements for parts of the current transport chain. But the organically developed inter-connectivity simply doesn't exist and it will be the interfaces that fail.

Actually they're not replacements, because the twin problems are volume and - as you pointed out - interfaces. Trucking is very flexible, in that you can deliver anything that fits on a truck to anywhere with a reasonable road. You don't get that flexibility with trains and canals - which is of course why trucking almost immediately replaced the alternatives as soon as motorways made high volume road freight possible.

As someone who works from home, much of the work I do now would be impossible if companies couldn't deliver to my doorstep.

And for city centre stores, the situation is even more precarious. The current distribution model for everything from bread to milk to t-shirts to laptops relies on central hubs and trucks. There's really no viable alternative.

The current road-based logistics framework has to survive in some form or other. It's not optional. Without it cities will explode into food riots as people start to starve.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 07:38:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe they will "unredevelop" the Docklands, then.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 20th, 2006 at 05:44:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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