Altruistic Economics

by ChrisCook
Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 04:46:18 AM EST

Robin Upton's "Altruistic Economics"

http://www.altruists.org/about/

http://www.altruists.org/ideas/economics/behavioral/

contains an insight - or basic assumption - which I believe is superior, or perhaps more reflective of Reality, than the conventional "profit maximising" "rational man" beloved of conventional Economics.

And that is that our natural instinct is in fact to co-operate to the best extent we  can on the basis of our perceived "relationship" with other individuals.

He uses the simple example of receiving a telephone call from someone who asks us to call back because it is costing them a fortune.

He then uses the ratio between what it costs them, and what it costs us, to calculate what he terms the "Indifference Value" "s"  where 0<s<1.<p> So:
 - the more altruistic we are the more likely it is we would call people back;
 - most people would call back if it didn't cost them much, and it cost the caller a lot;
- the closer we are to people the more cost we are prepared to sustain.

In other words, we are not looking to the maximum profit but to the maximum cost we are prepared to sustain.

I believe it will be a long time before we go down the "gift economy" road but that in a much shorter time we could see an "asset-based"  "Market Economy" where people compete not for "Profit" in money terms, but for "Quality".

ie in a "Health Market" we may shop around for the best Quality service on the basis of an equal ability to "afford" it.


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He uses the simple example of receiving a telephone call from someone who asks us to call back because it is costing them a fortune.

And in such an "altruistic economic" framework -- which by definition seems to ascribe a primary "value" to the quality of human relations -- there is more than the financial cost to consider.  You have to take into consideration the social cost -- and benefit -- of calling back, or not calling back.

Sometimes I call back -- even when I think the other person might be trying to take advantage of me financially -- if I think the social benefit of calling back outweighs the financial cost plus the social cost of refusing to call back.

I think this dynamic might have been at work in Japan's post-WWII life-time employment system, where "unproductive", often older workers, were guaranteed employment -- usually at very high salaries -- until official retirement age.  The system, I think, was valuing loyalty, feelings of membership and security, cooperativeness, harmony, over individualistic, competitive profit-orientation.

In short, while it might have cost companies more financially to keep such workers on the payroll (i.e. to "call them back"), the overall social benefits of such a system outweighed the financial costs.  (Alternatively, you could say the social costs for the companies of laying off such workers would have outweighed the financial benefits of doing so.)

Of course, that system has been changing quite rapidly in recent years.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 05:18:44 AM EST
In other words, we are not looking to the maximum profit but to the maximum cost we are prepared to sustain.

Once upon a time, when I was learning the basics of Operations Research, I was introduced to several different ways to decide among alternative strategies.

This was in a game theory framework, but in decision theory "the other player" is often "nature" and its "strategies" are possible random aoutcomes or "states of nature" [for instance, whether it will rain tomorrow]. A payoff matrix was assumed.

However, in order to analyse the payoff matrix, one could use either the payoffs themselves, or the regret.

The regret was the difference between the best possible payoff given a state of nature (i.e., with hindsight) and the actual payoff.

The strategies that we were introduced to were

  • maximize expected payoff
  • "max-min payoff": for each strategy, find the worst possible payoff, then choose the strategy that maximizes that payoff
  • minimize expected regret
  • "min-max regret": for each stragegy, find the worst possible regret, then choose the strategy that minimizes that regret

If I understand you correctly, you're saying these strategies can be classified thus:

StrategiesAltruisticSelfish
boldminimize expected regretmaximize expected payoff
cautiousmin-max regretmax-min payoff


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 06:19:13 AM EST
Decisions depend on options.

If you were a bird wintering in Finland, there is one terrible conundrum. How much energy can you afford to expend in looking for a further input of energy in the form of food. Burning all available internal energy in a failed search results in death. Doing nothing results in death.

That could be desctibed as a selfish decision.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 06:37:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, there is also the issue of enumerating all possible options, and estimatimg their likelyhoods. The risk-averse "min/max" strategies are very vulnerable to imperfect information, while strategies based on expected values are computationally very convenient, and rather stable.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 06:49:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you're only one bird, there wouldn't seem to be any altruistic decision. If there are two or more, cooperative behaviour would be that, when one finds food, it calls the others to share -- maximising energy input for the group for a minimum of output.

The individual that calls the others may be functioning on energy it received the day before when called by another to a source of food; or it may cash in the next day. The group is farming out energy and increasing its chances of finding food. Literally, a cooperative survival strategy.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 04:19:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that we have natural selection(s) of behaviours, not of strategies.

A behaviour is like an algorithm, hardwired by genes or learned. A strategy is like a focused problem - you know the purpose, but you do not necessarily know how to achieve it.

Of course, some strategies are achieved by straigtforward behaviours (which is to say, some problems have easy solutions). In particular, maximizing/minimizing strategies might be easily implemented by rather simplistic behaviours.

But in evolution (and perhaps in economy), behaviours must be more primary than strategies. Behaviours can be directly encoded by genes, in brains, or by social codes. Even if a strategy can be encoded in these ways, there must be a capacity to find ways to implement the strategy. Without this capacity, strategy is an emergent phenomenon, the apparent effect of maximizing/minimizing behaviours.

So my conclusion is, evolutions select behaviours rather than strategies. In this respect, "anything goes" what works - any functional behaviours survive, even if they enhance mutually contradictory strategies, or no clear strategy at all. We humans (and all living creatures) are capable of a vast variety of behaviours, they all can be selected in appropriate situations. The question is, which behaviours do we choose to follow with our "rational" brains and social imperatives.

We should also distinguish greed and selfishness. Greed is a behaviour, a very simplistic behaviour. Selfishness is a strategy, a self-preservation, satisfaction and procreation strategy. It is true that greed often implements selfishness. But not always. Pure greed might be a reason for extinction, if it uses up all resources necessary for survival. Restraint from greed is a part of selfishness, since it guards from entering the critical survival situations. Altruism and cooperation might also be selfish behaviours - in some critical situations they might be the only selfish behaviours, as the only way of surviving a crisis. Thus, selfishness might involve a surprisingly wide spectrum of behaviours. This is implemented in Nature through in through - the only indiscriminately exploitative species at this time seem to be various bacteria, locusts, and... Homo Sapiens. In economy, we are merely at the stage of playing optimizing greedy games, I would say ;-(

by das monde on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 09:46:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellently put! Agree 100%

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 29th, 2006 at 03:30:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
An altruistic economics may also need to take into consideration a possible "dark side" of altruism.

There is some research  being done at the University of Zürich on so-called "parochial altruism", whereby

Favoring of the own group and indifference with  respect to members of other groups is probably a deeply embedded basic impulse, shaped by evolution, which still continues to play a role in present times.

The scientists examined the extent to which members of various tribes in Papua New Guinea
were prepared to incur costs themselves in order to punish violations of the equity norm.  They found that the subjects were much less willing to punish a norm violation if the victim was a member of a different tribe. The protection of members of other tribes by means of the threat of altruistic punishment was relatively low, regardless of whether the norm violator was from their own or a different tribe. It was also apparent that a norm violator expects to be punished less if the punisher is from his or her own tribe; the equity norm was thus violated particularly often in this case.

(bold in the original)

The Proper Study Of Mankind provides a detailed review of the paper in Nature in which this research was presented, concluding:

Without taking into account the factors that influence the balance of cooperation and conflict between groups, this finding is puzzling. One suggestion for it is that punishing an outgroup member who harms an ingroup member might enhance the security of the ingroup by sending out the message "You mess with one of us, you mess with us all". Just like in gang culture, groups that are known to protect their own with a swift and aggressive response confer a degree of protection on each individual member, as no would-be outgroup aggravator want to bring trouble on their own head.

Although the difference standards to which ingroup and outgroup members were held in this study had no harmful real-world consequences, they are a reminder of how, in one another's eyes, we are not all equal: some -- our ingroup -- are more equal than others. This bias, stoked by religious, political or territorial disputes, can easily lead to a moral distancing of `them', and justify whatever actions are perpetrated in `our' name -- the consequences of which we all too frequently read about. Perhaps being aware of this potentially dangerous proclivity for parochialism in the social and moral realms, we can take steps to resist the urge and develop an expanded, more encompassing, social and moral framework.

I agree.  In addition to embracing the altruistic/cooperative tendencies of our human nature, I think we also need to develop and embrace a broader, "more encompassing, social and moral framework" for humanity across the globe, by which we identify with other humans not primarily and not merely through contingent cultural, physiological and territorial similarities, but through our universal and common predicament as inhabitants of this planet.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 07:11:03 AM EST
This is the paradox of what might be called Selfish-Organizing Systems.

In a pure SOS such as an organic cellular system, no single unit is 'aware' of anything other than its immediate physical neighbours with which it reacts according to simple 'rules'. The unit is 'unaware' that it is part of a larger structure - but a larger discrete structure is the result of these local actions - such as a tree for instance, or our brains.

Most human moral systems have at their core very simple rules of local social behaviour - Love the neighbour, do not covet, don't be greedy, do not kill, welcome strangers, etc etc. with various inflections according to the religion or belief system.

Multiplied globally, these basic rules would indeed produce a beautiful world society of life.

The problem, as you point out, is that groups such as the faithful of religions turn into Crips and Bloods that seek to protect rites and members. or seek to change the whole organization of human society to their particular inflection. Like a group of cells trying to redirect the growth of a tree.

If only they practiced what they preached at the core?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 08:36:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My point is that it is the "closed" and "exclusive" nature of the organisational forms we use that is to blame. The organisation takes on  a life independent of its component individuals, who become alienated from it.

That is where the "Open Corporate" comes in - a way of working collaboratively that allows us to work "with" rather than "for" each other resulting in what Marx referred to in his early work as "the Abolition of Labour".

And a participative State in which every citizen Member is an integral part as opposed to a "them" and an "us".

I guess it is the transcendance of the exclusionary barriers which is the necessity, and this appears to be a quality of the "Open" Corporate - a form which is BOTH "closed" in that only Members are in it AND "Open" in that anyone who consents to the relevant protocol may be a Member.

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 08:58:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed. I hadn't intended to take the debate off subject.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 09:27:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have just been admiring your Small is Beautiful ppt from OpenCapital. Inspiring stuff!

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 09:38:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I blush.

I wasn't actually there in the US but did the presentation over a voice box to the Schumacher audience as we paged through the Ppt together and then took about 20 minutes questions etc.

It was inspiring for me, too.

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 10:50:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just spent an hour on the phone talking with a leadership consultant about virtual conferences as all-day coffee breaks!

It appears 80% of speaker content comes from 20% of speakers, and 40% of a conference audience thinks the content comes from the breaks and socializing. We decided that there is a brutal method to deal with this problem ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 11:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Shoot the Messenger"?

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 11:43:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes - shoot them on video and post all 'official' speakers videos on the web before the conference.

This we realised would need a new model for paying speakers, if their wise words were duplicatable and distributable. We think that can be solved.

The advantage of the system would be that speakers would not be able to jaunt around the world giving the same old speech, they would have to evolve their viewpoints ;-)

And conference goers would be spared their dutiful attendance in large auditoria to listen to people behind the podium reading out pre-written speeches and, instead, get down to the real business of arguing about what it means!

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 01:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We decided to sit down next week with a large Finnish company and ask them to pay for a prototype that may well be a total cock-up. Self-organizing systems are inherently unpredictable and letting one loose seems the best way to find out if the engineering is equal to the particular human behaviour called conferencing. ;-)

We are assisted though by the Open Space concept and new technical possibilities.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 01:15:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Both links above give me an "unspecified error". Anyone else find this?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 04:21:34 PM EST
It does now, but not earlier when I perused them.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 04:40:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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