European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

Plagiarism and copyright

by Jerome a Paris
Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:21:42 AM EST

Dr J. Patrice McSherry, Professor of Political Science and Director, Latin American and Caribbean Studies Program (LACS), Long Island University, brought to my attention a diary posted on European Tribune where her words from an earlier article of hers were used verbatim without attribution nor reference to her work.

This is clearly unacceptable, and I would like to present my apologies to Dr McSherry for this incident. I have updated the diary to make it clear which paragraphs were originally from her.

I'm willing to believe for now that this incident was an unfortunate, isolated, error or oversight, but I would like to make it clear that such behavior should absolutely be avoided, and will not be tolerated on European Tribune. Beyond the basic courtesy owed to the work of others, there may be very real copyright issues that I'm not keen to face.

So thanks for your efforts in this respect.

UPDATE: The author of the diary has very graciously sent an apology to Dr McSherry.

. Home
. About
. Contact
. New User Guide
. FAQ
. Search
. Search (Google)
. Archives (Wiki)
Art, Economics, Energy, Environment, EU Politics, Mech & Tech, By Country

Username:
Password:

. Make a new account
. Reset password

Plagiarism and copyright | 69 comments (69 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Hi Jerome. I've edited this story to reflect Dr. McSherry's gender, which is female...

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:43:42 AM EST

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

Same gender correction is needed in the diary in question.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:46:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

Thanks. Now done.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:50:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Thanks. I saw "Patrice" and did not look further.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:27:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

So, now that we have a banning policy, how about a copyright, hotlinking and licensing policy?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:48:11 AM EST

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

It should be pretty simple: Don't steal stuff.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:52:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

Also: don't quote without formatting, and don't quote or paraphrase without linking the original source.

As for licensing, I am referring to the implicit licensing of the content we produce to the site. (See here).

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:58:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

Agreed on your first two points. We should not have content here that is not attributed to its original source unless it's specifically public domain. But then do we need to define which public domain? I.e. which country's copyright laws apply to us?

The licensing debate is separate, but also important. Does ET not have a default license agreement? I lean strongly toward the writer retaining copyright.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:05:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

I did not say transfer of copyright, I said licensing. We obviously license Jerome to publish our content by the very act of clicking "post".

It is because ET has no explicit statement of the implicit licensing terms that I have adopted my own.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:08:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Have you?

Attribution. You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor.

But you don't appear to have specified any rules for attribution.

Re: transfer of copyright, I was just following on from comments in the thread you linked to, didn't mean to confuse the two issues, sorry.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Well, it has to be attributed in some manner.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:26:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

If I were you, I'd specify how.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:34:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Now done, thanks.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:46:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

There is a default:

If you distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform the Work or any Derivative Works or Collective Works, You must keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and provide, reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing: (i) the name of the Original Author (or pseudonym, if applicable) if supplied, and/or (ii) if the Original Author and/or Licensor designate another party or parties (e.g. a sponsor institute, publishing entity, journal) for attribution in Licensor's copyright notice, terms of service or by other reasonable means, the name of such party or parties; the title of the Work if supplied; to the extent reasonably practicable, the Uniform Resource Identifier, if any, that Licensor specifies to be associated with the Work, unless such URI does not refer to the copyright notice or licensing information for the Work; and in the case of a Derivative Work, a credit identifying the use of the Work in the Derivative Work (e.g., "French translation of the Work by Original Author," or "Screenplay based on original Work by Original Author"). Such credit may be implemented in any reasonable manner; provided, however, that in the case of a Derivative Work or Collective Work, at a minimum such credit will appear where any other comparable authorship credit appears and in a manner at least as prominent as such other comparable authorship credit.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:49:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

wow!

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:33:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

I.e. which country's copyright laws apply to us?

Good question. Legally, I think it is the laws of the country where the stuff is published. That would still be the US, right (co-hosted with Booman)?

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:51:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

You're probably right, but I suspect that if someone wanted to go after a user in a particular country on copyright violation, it might be possible to try to do so in the courts of either the original publication, or of the user who posted the diary or comment in question. I have no idea if it would work, but I wouldn't be suprised if someone tried.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 12:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

I believe Revolutionary Colman is working on that.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:47:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Since you mention the issue of national jurisdiction, I searched for the Spanish Intelectual Propery Law (1996)... In particular...

Derivative works
Limits [to Intellectual Property, that is, fair use]
Public domain.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 04:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 3)

Steal? You mean I no longer can take the bits from another page to mine and thereby removing them from the original text?

Sorry, I am a bit sensitive to the word "steal" in relation to copyright violations.

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:21:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 2)

Go Pirate Party of Spain! (El Pais)

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:28:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Wow, cool!

El Pais is the big paper in Spain right? (Is this in the dead tree version too?)

Thanks for the link, I will send it around.

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 09:23:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 2)

No, but I would say you should not take bits from something that someone else wrote and pass them off as your own original words. If you use someone else's work, say so.

Is that really a problem?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 12:01:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

No problem at all, I agree with you completely. Non-attribution is very rude. My only problem was at a semantic level.

Calling non-attribution "stealing" fits into the copyright, patent and trademark loobies attempts to equate their priviliges with property and branding incursions "theft". Their attempts in this manner is aiming mainly at the right side of the political spectrum. To undermine it Piratpartiet has repeatedly explained that copyright limits property rights, as you are not for example allowed to make copies of this plastic property you have bought. No right-thinking propertarian could therefore defend copyright.

As stealing includes removing something from its original owner, it is also a poor metaphor. Fraud is more correct description of non-attribution. So had you written: "Do not commit fraud", I would not have reacted the same way.

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 03:59:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Calling non-attribution "stealing" fits into the copyright, patent and trademark loobies attempts to equate their priviliges with property and branding incursions "theft". Their attempts in this manner is aiming mainly at the right side of the political spectrum.

From the left, defending intellectual property and absentee ownership as part of an inalienable right to property just undermines the idea of private property.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 04:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

How exactly are absentee ownership and intellectual property equivalent?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 04:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

They are not, they are examples of issues that are argued from the right as embodying an inalienable right to property.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 04:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Now that I think of it, the fact that copyright prevents people from making copies of out-of-print books is analogous to absentee ownership.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 04:28:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

Get me a copy of the Mappae Clavicula, Transactions of the American Philological Society, 1974. Someone ripped off my original copy, while another asshole stole the only other copy in Central Italy from the Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche....(I'll pay handsomely. Well, reasonably. Pirated edition acceptable.)

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Title: Mappae clavicula : a little key to the world of medieval techniques / [edited and translated by] Cyril Stanley Smith and JohnG. Hawthorne

Circulation status
ON LOAN

Sorry man :)

But if they have it here, some of the other uni people should be able to get their hands on it, and copy it up.

by Trond Ove on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Some asshole stole the 1915 issue of Annalen der Physik containing Einstein's original paer on General Relativity from the library at my physics faculty in Madrid. It's not like the paper is not available in a nice little book from Dover publishers for really cheap, either...

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 2)

Our pirate right sees intellectual property as watering down the content of the idea of private property, as well as being in opposition to true property. This must be fought.

Our pirate left sees intellectual property as yet another enclosure as property is just rights taken by the powerful. This must be fought.

Both sides are aware of the other sides delusions and is willing to cooperate with the deluded. Maybe in time a pirate ideology will emerge to give a new startingpoint.

Interestingly, a poll on our forum just before the election gave the following result:

If Piratpartiet did not exist, would you:
Vote left - 1/3
Vote right - 1/3
Vote on another party outside the parliament - 1/6
Not vote - 1/6

So that would imply that we are quite evenly divided in our delusions.

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

Or equally united in giving up on them...

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:31:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

It's considerably more than "rude."

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 04:34:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

I'd say, considering a single well-publicised instance can ruin someone's reputation in perpetuity.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 04:38:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

It's considerably more than "rude."

Well, I wrote "very rude" which is considerably more then rude, otherwise the "very" would be pointless.

If you like to, you can choose your own term of moral condemnation. As we come from different cultural backgrounds as well as have different native languages, I doubt we will be able to agree on exactly what term is "considerably more than "rude"".

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:53:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

It wouldn't matter if you called it "rude," or "very rude," or "very, very, very, very, very rude," or even "very incredibly massively unbelievably rude," it would still not describe what we are actually talking about. It is not a matter of moral condemnation. There are (very very very) real laws governing intellectual property, whether you like those laws or not, and members of this site disregarding them could have financial and legal implications for the proprieters of ET. To equate that with farting in a theater is absurd. Or even very absurd.

But if you'd rather talk about semantics than about developing an actual policy for ET, then be my guest. PN away.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 2)

It might shock you to know this, but lack of attribution or even straight copying happens all the time in the serious media. During the last Israeli tussle in Lebanon, I noticed a BBC web news article which was not only copying a Ha'aretz article, but even contained the same spelling mistake. I have seen an editorial in Norways biggest or second biggest newspaper (can't remember which one it was) that was nothing but a Washington Post article translated into norwegian with a sentence in the beginning saying that this was the opinion of the editor writing it.

In other words, there is very little real danger of financial or legal repercussions from this. The danger is to the prestige and "seriousness" of eurotrib as a provider of news and commentary.

by Trond Ove on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

It does not shock me at all, sadly.

I agree that the prestige and "seriousness" of ET would be at stake, but I also think that it is wise to consider the possibility that there could be legal and financial repercussions and to have a policy in place to attempt to avoid that possibility. It would not be unprecedented.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 2)

I think this place should have a policy in place despite the fact that eurotrib are unlikely to be prosecuted. We should aspire to be as professional as possible.

My biggest fear for a site like this is not really a random suit, but a legal challenge by forces interested in stifling "dissent". Indymedia Norway ended up in a law suit against a right-wing norwegian lawyer a few years back for what I considered to be political reasons. (If anyone remembers the details about this case, please fill me in. I am off to bed.)

by Trond Ove on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 07:35:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

The law suit was by a lawyer, not against him of course.

Preview is your friend...

by Trond Ove on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 07:39:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

I agree with the point made by Laurent earlier.

I'd by far prefer we refer to social norms rather than law.
Quoting or translating without attribution is just being dishonnest or impolite regardless of what the law says.

And I suggested a policy that would include the diarist to write most of their diary, which even when you ostensibly qoute would make it a derivative work and therefore both legal (in most countries at least) and something worth the read. Assuming you attribute correctly.

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:56:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 3)

How about stuff like this?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:59:49 AM EST

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

How is that not just spam?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:08:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

It's actually copied from another source without attribution.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:11:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

It's copied from a press release, so it's both plagarism and spam.

But I agree with you.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:27:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

I've put it on ice, and thanks for tracking that down.

Now nobody knows what we're talking about...

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:33:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

The comments are still visible.

The plagiarism-hunting tricks one learns when teaching undergraduates...

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:35:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Excellent!

by FarEasterner on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:09:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 2)

OK, we get into fair use, too. Just how far can an article be translated or just how far can overriding public interest go? Nur-al-Cubicle seems to get away with it- and foreign reports may not mind getting broader coverage through English translations.

There are also cases of articles- such as an article I used from the Corriere that largely consists of quoting documents- the two Limarev emails- curiously leaked before presented to the press on the same day. Both facts seem to belong to a public's right-to-know.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:34:15 AM EST

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

My gut tells me that translations should work roughly the same way you would quote English-language material, but others may feel differently. Attribution would need to work the same way, but as long as things are attributed and presumably not quoted in full, I assume there should be no problem.

Quoting something in full, regardless of whether it's in English or in translation/original language, I think is borderline. Some might argue that as long as it's attributed, it's fair use, but I disagree. I would prefer not to see full-length articles reproduced here.

"Fair use" is usually defined as use of an excerpt, not the entirety of a work. If it's properly attributed, people can go to the original for more.

But that's just my two cents. Anybody here a lawyer?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:46:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

In general I agree with you.

There are rare cases though in which fair use could include an entire piece. It could be crucial to an argument. Not everything is available on the web, buried as it often is in section Z, page 27. I wouldn't be surprised if certain reporters are actually happy to see some free PR in English to boot.

A recent sentence by the Italian Cassation court ruled that if copying is not done for commerce and gain, it's ok, but that's Italy. I haven't read the arguments behind the decision but it took the wind out of recent stricter laws to curtail internet copying in Italy.

I'll go back and try to find it- something in the last ten days.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 11:51:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

I think a full-text translation becomes a derivative work and is not fair use. IANAL, and all that.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 11:55:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Yes, I believe you're correct. That, however, does not change the need for attribution. (Which I don't recall having been a problem here -- nobody ever translates something without telling us what they're translating and where it came from.)

But this clause, quoted in your wiki link from this page...

WHO MAY PREPARE A DERIVATIVE WORK? Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. The owner is generally the author or someone who has obtained rights from the author.

... indicates that fair use rules would likely still apply.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 12:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

I was not arguing about the need for attribution in translation, but against de Gondi's argument that whole-text translation can be covered by fair use.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 04:13:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

I threw in the caveat "rare cases."

It's a concern for me as I often do translations and some have appeared here at Eurotrib, always properly attributed. Cases in point are interviews with Iraqi Ambassador al-Zahawie and ex-DGSE spy chief Alain Chouet at Booman over the Niger forgeries. Both were of extreme importance at the time. There full translations in English were crucial to the on-going verbal war between the neocons and the liberal blogsphere.

I feel the same about the Limarev interviews as we are dealing with a brutal operation designed to frame someone that involves a murder. I doubt that either la Repubblica, Carlo Bonini or Limarev are all that concerned with translations.

In these cases I feel there is an overriding political right to be informed. We become "politics" which as Arendt would have it, is the only way to be free. At that point "fair use" becomes a quibble that can be sorted out when the dust settles.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 05:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 4)

I'd by far prefer we refer to social norms rather than law.

Quoting or translating without attribution is just being dishonnest or impolite regardless of what the law says.

As far as the law is concerned, even with all its money and lawyers google was forced to take down a site in some european countries and this site that was referencing and quoting far less (at most two sentences and always with a link) than what European Tribune does every single day in "Salon de News" or in many diaries.

Any wide exposure of ET could lead to its immediate termination and lots of fees for the people legally responsible.

Free speech is in direct conflict with intellectual property laws (as are many other freedoms), it's a fact and you can't avoid it.

I've already expressed my opinion about licensing here as far as political discussion sites are concerned:

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/11/30/113631/63#151

I've set for public domain on my blog.
I find it ridiculous to set up a web site for public political discussions and general free speech use but to use one of the most freedom-restrictive law in existence namely copyright just for the pleasure of suing people later on, but I guess it's just me. That's the reason behind my blog move.
If someone prints the best comments of European Tribune and becomes billionnaire by selling it to billions of people, so what? Didn't we achieve what we wanted in the first place then?

by Laurent GUERBY on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 06:51:53 AM EST

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 2)

Yes, and I would like to add an ET-specific social norm: "When qouting a lot in a diary, try to have more of your own text in the diary then quotes."

After all I come here to read your views and not so much the original article. This norm is specifically targeted at diarys and not comments, as it there can be very constructive for the dicussion to just qoute something. And in the newsthreads the qoutes are good starters for discussions.

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 09:22:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Just to be clear:

If I create a hyperlink in a heading or in the first few words of the quote...

What do catastrophic climate change, the widening gulf between the wealthy and the poor, America's obesity epidemic, and our society's lack of care for the young and the elderly have in common, Ruth Rosen asks at Tpm Cafe. The answer: Market Fundamentalism.

...does that count as sufficient attribution--the reader can click and view the source? Or should we have a standard e.g.

Hat tip to http://www.longviewinstitute.org/ for the following link

It would in some ways be good--very sociable and interactive--to contact everyone prior to quoting anything they have written, or pictured...

I grab images from google images and usually don't check where the image comes from. Someone here wrote that it's easy to stop someone grabbing bandwith [I don't understand the tech. details, so if I've got it wrong: insert correct logic here]...

So...is that all okay?

(Seriously, contacting people for attribution...could be cool...just an e-mail, "Hi, I really enjoyed what you wrote here [hyperlinked to specific webpage] and....)

The only problem might be that popular authors (webwise) would have to spend the whole day saying "Yes, of course"--and so we have Migeru's noble licence--now with attribution criteria...but what if one is quoting from someone...ach...

I suppose we're gonnae have to check out the details of those from whom we....quote. Which is no bad thing. Might slow down the diary-creation process (for certain types of diaries...)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 07:31:41 AM EST

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

First of all, you should always link to the article itself http://www.longviewinstitute.org/research/rosen/challengemf otherwise the link points to the wrong thing later on.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:30:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

I always copy/paste the address of the page from which I am copying/pasting the text.

(In this case, I just copied the abstract from the front page.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:36:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

When you link to a blog, you should go to the blog post itself following its "permalink" so you can be sure you are in "the right page". When a website uses frames, you may have to "view this frame only" in order to get to the proper URL.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:38:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

Noted.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:43:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

How would I link to your comment (above?) rather than this diary?

From "Recent Comments" I can click on "View Comment", but from here I don't have the "View Comment" option, so I'd link to the diary not the specific comment.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:45:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 0)

(It says "Read Comment", not "View Comment")

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:46:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

Easiest way is to click on a "parent" link. failing that, click on the rating summary next to the subject, and remove the tail part of the comment after the '?'

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:49:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (none / 1)

This is sort of statement I would subscribe to. I am a writer (nonfiction) and I have an experience with loosy quotations from my works with references or without them, and I can understand usage of others' works in one's presentation. But wholesome quotations without any credits or links are clearly unacceptable. Whenever I pasted here someone's opinion and irrespectively how tired I was I tried to make some input, expressing my opinion or commentary to quoted materials. I think only news articles' quotation either by Fran or others should be exceptions.

by FarEasterner on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 08:58:33 AM EST

Re: Plagiarism and copyright (4.00 / 3)

I am truly sorry for you inconvenience Jerome. All I can say is that I am sorry and that this was not done in bad faith, but more due to a mixture of a lack of knowledge on the propriety of publishing and a bit too hasty work.

I have now sent Dr. J. Patrice MCSherry an apology and taken the full responsibility.

I hope you can forgive the inconvenience I have caused you and the ET community and I am thankful for what you and others here at ET have done to correct my indiscretions.

Best

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 12:47:40 PM EST

Thanks Gjermund, (none / 1)

this is very gracious of you.

I did not want to blame you specifically (beyond the unavoidable fact that this one reported incident took place in one of your diaries), but just took advantage of a direct request to address the topic publicly.

I can very much imagine how such a thing could happen in such a dense and obviously researched diary, and I simply hope that we'll all manage to avoid the same mistake in the future.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Wed Jan 31st, 2007 at 02:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Plagiarism and copyright | 69 comments (69 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]