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About ET

by Sven Triloqvist Thu Jan 4th, 2007 at 05:33:21 PM EST

A short discussion in the Open Thread suggested that Bob's 'The Euro and the Dollar' diary and comments shows ET at its best and worthy of further distribution.

Specialized business papers and magazines may be interested not only in the argument, but also in the phenomenon of community blogging and what it can achieve.

I have proposed that we do the following:

  • A Summary of the debate is written. (Redstar, I think volunteered)

  • The entire diary should be presented - perhaps with some minor edits and possible deletions, in order to show how a collaborative civil debate flows. (Afew has the texts downloaded)

  • We all contribute to a short informative piece about ET. how it started, how it runs, what is it for, why is that good for society etc. (I am ready to whip those talking points into a short journalistic piece which could be used as background with anything we distribute.)


So what is needed from you:

  • some ideas on how to edit the original diary for presentation. I think the names and times are significant, and the threads should be presented in time order.

  • Some ideas and facts about ET. Obviously a Jerome CV - but how about a smattering of info about the sort of (very different) people we are?

  • More ideas on how to distribute. I have a B2B publisher in Finland that might be interested. Do you have a similar publisher in your area?

Display:
I describe ET as "a Progressive European Expert Community Blog".

English has a problem: it doesn't really have an accepted term for the Italian or Spanish europeista or the French européiste. Just try googling "europeist" or "europeanist".

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 02:48:13 AM EST
Miguel,

Why don't we just appropriate the Italian, Spanish or the French term. That would be the English (language) thing to do - especially the French version of the word (although I prefer the SpanishItalian one myself).

Give it six months and the Brits will be claiming that not only has the word always been theirs but those continentals stole it from them.

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying

by RogueTrooper on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 06:07:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I like "Europeist" myself. Actually, after looking at the Europeanism page on Wikipedia I am not sure I like the term "Europeanist".

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 06:08:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hate to say this, but for the average Brit it's a bit close to combining "Europe" and "Pissed" ( which for our US brethren does not mean "angry" but "extremely inebriated")

Just a thought.... ;-)

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:37:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it is, then.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 06:09:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Europista may not belong to any language but snappily connects to the ista suffix in baarista, Sandinista etc ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 08:37:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Triloqvista...

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 08:49:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to the Hitchhikers' Wiki, a 'triloqvista' is a 'cyber-jester who may add either spanner or oil to the machinery depending on whim or wherewithall'

"Prithee, nuncle, be contented; 'tis a naughty night to swim in..."

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 08:58:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why "expert"?

I think it is fair to say that not everyone here is an expert, or is certainly not speaking from an expert position.  

More importantly, at least over here, the term "expert" has been used and abused to the point that it bears little weight and even invites insult.  And the beauty of a blog is that one does not need expert credentials.  Intelligent and informed people putting their heads togther can be more insightful and effective than an individual with recognized authority.

Of course, there are experts here, and you could say we are all experts at something, but that isn't really the point.

I guess my main concern is that this is a place for debate and learning and development of ideas as much as it is a place displaying our knowledge.  And that requires a kind of humility and sharing that isn't really conveyed by the term "expert."

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome is an expert.

You don't need credentials to be an expert.

As my fencing instructor used to say, an expert is someone who knows one more thing than you do.

"Expert" is the level of the content than we seem to be aiming to produce.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:59:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I can only speak for myself that I've not aimed to produce an expert level of content here.  Shocked, I am sure.  But I cannot be alone.  Some people are happy enough to produce a discussion, a laugh, a smile, food for thought.

Perhaps you are confusing these white-paper type projects, which I think are awesome, for the blog as a whole?

I'd hate to have people feel they need to be an expert in something to contribute here.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 01:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well. I hope you will forgive me if I consider you an "expert" on Russia and a damn good writer. too.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 04:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll try to find it in my heart to do that. ;)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 04:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't yet seen where redstar says he will do a summary. That was a suggestion, but afaik he hasn't responded to it yet. (I asked him to make a diary out of one of his comments, which he agreed to do.)

The text file of the diary and its comments can be downloaded from euro_dollar_diary.rtf. HTML mark-ups still need stripping out.

Jérôme suggests linking to the diary in other blogs etc.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:31:31 AM EST
There are three questions.

-First, do we want to have the discussion in another format? If we want it in another format, how do we do it? If we want a pdf I guess the software must be already there to make the switch.. or is it more difficult?

-Second. the introduction.. I do nto know if redstar may want to do it... but certainly we could do a general introduction. We just have to agree about what to do.

-third. Distribution. Sven proposes one.. do we have any other outlet? What format should it take?

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 06:57:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The easiest way to is copy the whole commentary and paste it into a text document, and then search and replace. I'll try to do that at the weekend.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 10:54:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is in a text document already, at the link I indicate above.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 04:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I opened it - but there is a hell of a lot of garbage to wade thru. The copy paste I use on a mac and safari gives me a perfect replica of all the text except missing the thread indentation

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 04:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The question is really what kind of formatting you want in the final document. I have taken the text doc afew linked above and have it pulled a part with perl. (comment bodies, titles, authors, parent, etc.) These can be arranged in whatever way we think pleases the eye.
Anyone know what formatting is needed?

Here is an example of the beginning of the thread with indentations using a table. Only author links are used right now. Links to parent comment for each comment could be added, for example.

Though, looking at it makes me think that presenting the whole thread like this is not very readable at all. If a larger audience is the aim, I wonder if a more complete rewrite is not in order? With very good comments quoted, of course. Who is it that will even begin to read the monster document that would be all 118 comments?

Anyway, if we want to reformat the thread in its entirety with some kind of formatting for readability, it should be quite easy to generate many possible documents (in different formats, even) using some quick and dirty perl.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then my comment below is not very relevant. You can get the Parent number by mousing over "Parent" in the Scoop (live) version of the thread, the Comment Number from "Reply to this" or the timeline or the ratings parenthesis top right.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:36:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To reconstitute the flow of comment-response, the key is the value of "Parent". The comment number just gives the order of posting, but that's easier than looking at the time of posting. Here's a brief comment from Migeru, from the text file:

< a id="81" class="commenttitle" >< B >Re: A logical assumption< B >< /a >
(< A HREF="/comments/2007/1/2/91122/92976
81?mode=alone;showrate=1#81" >none / 0< a >)
< /div >
< div class="commentbody" >
On Growth and Fiat: are you saying there was no economic growth when the gold standard was in force?

What happens to people is the same thing that happens when the economy is based on oil and the monetary system is based on fiat money. Unless I'm missing something.


Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides< /div >
< span class="small" >by < a class="light" href="/user/uid:825/diary" >Migeru< /a > ( < A CLASS="light" HREF="mailto:miguel receives.spam.at math dot ucr dot edu" >miguel receives.spam.at math dot ucr dot edu< /A >) on < a href="/story/2007/1/2/91122/92976# 81" >Wed Jan 3rd, 2007 at 01:57:50 PM FWT< /a >
  [< A CLASS="light" HREF="/user/uid:825/edit" >Edit User< /A >]
[  < A CLASS="light" HREF="/comments/2007/1/2/91122/92976
80#80" >Parent< A > | < A CLASS="light" HREF="/comments/2007/1/2/91122/92976 81/post#here ">Reply to This< /A > |

I have bolded the spots where you can read the comment number (81) and the one spot where you can read the Parent (80), meaning that this comment replied to comment 80.

I don't know why Scoop has parsed it into italics, I must have angered the gods.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:24:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just for the record, I am all for this, if it helps spread the word about how we operate here. I take zero credit for the writing, as for me it was simply an interesting subject and figured (correctly, it turned out) that the local economists might have a lot to say...plus it was pretty much a cut and paste. I was just trying to facilitate.

So have at it. I do agree that some kind of intro might be good...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 08:24:17 AM EST
The intro is important anyway, in that we should agree on how we officially describe ourselves in public when one person/document speaks for the rest of us.

The summary of the diary commentary - if it is possible to do - is also important as a position statement.

Whether my idea of distributing to the business press is viable, I don't know. But I do have a meeting next week with these people, and could test the waters.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 08:43:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the description should be done in an open thread...soemthing coming porbably from the FP

Regardign the summary.. if redstar doe snto do it , I will do it for this particualr case. Some kind of position paper summarizing all the statements/comments  and published here as another diary. If redstar does not do it, I will do it.

Regardign distribution.. this I can hardly help. Migeru knows more thant me myself about the spanish world.

A pleasure

 

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:00:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Huh?

I've been out of the country for 6+ years!

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:01:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You ahve more knowledge of escolar.. and probalby how to contact elpais...

I could certainly try La Vanguardia and El periodico de Catalunya... or Avui.. but I would not know how to approach them...

La Vanguardia has a column about technology and blogs... El Periodico.. well I guess they do nto have such a thing , but they would wellcome it much more.. if we would know the people inside the newspaper (and translate it).

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:17:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To be honest, I'd just e-mail Escolar privately asking him for advice once the document is finished.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:26:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's more than what I can do....

I would just could e-mail the woman inc harge in La vanguardia (although I just do not know her).

And regarding El PEriodico.. I just do not know.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:29:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you mean? One of his e-mail addresses is available from the blog...

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:40:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
OH.. I thought you knew him somehow, or at least exchanged some mails in the past... If this is not the case.. we are even :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:47:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Great idea.

I'll write that diary today, post it this afternoon CST (Paris - 0700 hrs).

Revision suggestions over the weekend then.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:58:37 AM EST
Excellent redstar...thanks!!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 10:28:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Great Redstar!

I can do the history/background piece, but I need some input from the rest of you.

How did ET come about - as a split from DKos and Booman with a desire to do the same type of thing, but from a European viewpoint. Anything else from the start-up that is relevant? Was Energy the linking factor?

Who are we? Which countries and occupations are represented here?

How many members do we have now? (The rest of the traffic info I can get from sitemeter). How much time do we contribute? My guess is that is at least 20.000 hours a year, excluding lurkers.

How many diaries have been posted since we were born?

What are the notable events?

What can we add to 'European Expert Community Blog' that would help a business/general audience to understand what ET is?

Why do we do it? My own answer is complex: I enjoy the Breakfast thread because it is like having more trusted eyes scanning the days news. I learn a great deal about things which I should already know - economics, energy, multiculturism. I have another audience for humour and oddities. I try to pay back what I have learned from others by pointing out subjects that don't get attention. And perhaps most of all - it is a community in a real sense, with the friendship, sharing and caring that comes with that territory. The fact that it is almost entirely virtual does not make much of a difference to me.

Plus the fact that I am an ardent European and ET is the best place to be one.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 10:51:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome and afew should help with the beginning.. and about users and trusted users. And also about total diaries

But I can tell you something more to add in the European Expert community blog... In Spain it seems that internet magazine is a very common phrase...the key part of course would be to add open...

SO I would say we are an Euroepan Expert Community doing an open internet magazine about European and World Affairs with an owner of the site but where any member is able to submit histories to the magazine. A certian number of front-pager and trusted users together with the borader community rate and valorate the history and engage in discussion. They also decide what histories deserve to be in the front-page of the magazine. From there on you can distinguish front-pagers articles and other article-diaries... This description may not work in other countires and for a long article is not completely accurate but I would say that in Spain people would understand it better as a short description... I do not know what Migeru or Amanda would say about it.. but given how common internet magazines are I think it would be easier to understand. The danger, of course, it may sound too similar to things already there if we do not emphasize the OPEN aspect.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 11:04:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not a magazine, it's a blog.

Just my €0.02

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:17:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You think the average reader of a newspapers know what a blog is? I think most poeple do not know... on the contrary.. magazine or internet magazine is something more people seem to know (according to my impression).

Besides, It seems that a blog in Spain, even if you are interested and frequent user of internet, generally is assigned to mean "personal blog". From what I read there is an implicit assumption that a blog is something personal...one person does it.. the rest just comment.

My two cents.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:27:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I always say "It is not about your message, it is how it is perceived in the mind of the recipient"

the word blog does indeed come from 'weblog', with implications of a personal diary, mainly because that is how they started out - as monologues. The dialogue bit came later.

'Self-organizing interactive magazine' is what I would call it  - with the added slogan of "Almost as many writers as readers". But self-organizing would not be understood by a general audience, so if I wanted my message to make sense at the other end, I would have to use the language and terminology of the audience. All communication is a translation process - a fact that it is not well understood.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And, by and large, that is the case with blogs. Even escolar (which has a "forums" site attached to it which I have never bothered to look at, but which is quite active and fulfills the purpose of the "diaries" here with respect to the "front page").

An internet magazine is something like Libertad Digital (ugh) or Cafe Babel. A community blog is not that. We're more like Barrapunto (Spanish slashdot), for those who know what that is.

There are are personal blogs without comments. Juan Cole (initially), Riverbend or Billmon belong in that category. Then there are personal blogs with comments, like Juan Cole is now, or like Escolar. Then there are group blogs (with a closed group of posters) like crooked timber, or A fistful of Euros, and then there are community blogs like Slashdot, Kos, ET... All of these categories can be vanity blogs, or substance blogs. Celebrity blogs, with or without comments, are generally vanity blogs. You can even have vanity group celebrity blogs like the the Huffington Post. You cannot have a vanity community blog, I don't think.

There are no prominent community blogs in Spain (Barrapunto is too geeky). If Escolar's blog switched from MovableType to Scoop that blog would seriously explode.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:49:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now that was exactly the phrase I have been looking for ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:52:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy to be of service.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My point is precisely that community blog sounds very strange in Spain. If you can explain in detail it is the perfect definition...but in Spain where almost nobody has heard about blogs (even less community blogs) I was proposing to switch the basic definition to community/open magazine depending on the audience.

Summing up:

If you address an internet community and you try to explain them what ET is: community blog (perfect concept Migeru) + all the details about what  community and "open" mean

If you are adressing newspapers people or radio people I would use: Open Internet Magazine (A Magazine like the one you buy in the kiosk but it is written in Internet and it is open)

That would be my take.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 01:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would call it an open Internet Tribune, in the sense of a speaking platform. (Tribuna, perfect term in Spanish) Anyway, many people know about blogs now. For instance, Escolar goes every two monday to the morning talk show of Cadena Ser (Hoy por Hoy) and talks about blogs and the Net. But in one thing you are right: blog it is almost always associated with personal writings, with or without comments.
My two cents
by amanda2006 on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 01:36:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brilliant.
Now I really dunno about what's better....

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 01:41:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do a specific diary about this, where we can all chip in our input.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 12:17:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great!!!

I will be be here barely to read it... tomorrow is family holiday... but I will have a look tomorrow night.

I can submit or translate the piece once it is finished.. depending on what we would like to do.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 10:52:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just had a look again at some stuff by Chris Bowers at MyDD. It was an article by Chris, about community blogs and how they were giving the left blogosphere more traffic than the right, that brought me, via BT, to ET a couple of days after the site opened. I don't know how relevant it is to this discussion, but take a look and see if you (anyone) find something, if not, no problemo.

The first story I read was Aristocratic Right Wing Blogosphere Stagnating.

Then Progressive Blogosphere Not Breaking Through To Mainstream Media

and Meta-MyDD.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 04:39:15 PM EST
I think there's hardly anyone who's Internet literate who doesn't know what blogs are about.

Here's a question - what sort of response are we after? A feature or article about ET? An ongoing mainstream commission to write or analyse in a pundity kind of a way? A TV show?

I suspect the interest from the meeja may be underwhelming. After introducing the New Statesman to dKos and ET last year, they asked for a small feature on spec about political blogging - and then decided not to run it.

From a story POV blogs are no longer news - the Grauniad has been quoting Kos since forever - so I think it needs something more than an introduction and a summary of thread, no matter how good the content is.

I think there is a story about the rise of the New Left (Left 2.0? maybe not...) - smart, centrist, mobile and wired, lacking the ideological baggage of the old left, and willing to take the battle into mediaspace and business-space, instead of running around throwing dustbins at policemen and doing 'street theatre' dressed in pink and silver.

"2006 proved the netroots are organised enough to make a difference - could it happen here?" Etc.

ET on its own though - I could be wrong, especially about foreign journalism, about which I know almost nothing. But in UK and US terms - maybe not the interest we'd like, I suspect.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 04:48:49 PM EST
That is no excuse for not trying. Of course this this is a few hundred people at most out of 100's of millions in Europe. Of course it is irrelevant in any short term view. All this is obvious.

The question is, are you going to get up off your arse and do something about it, or sit and whinge?

Democracy and decency will not happen unless the general mindset is changed. How do you change the mindset when you don't control the media? We have only one method - VIRAL.

Viral takes time. Viral is local. Viral spreads from person to person.

What ET is, is a communicable disease. And that is a negative in one sense. But we humans are, after all, parasites on a big lump of rock. Everything feeds on something.

So we don't need your well-turned phrases of why it won't work (in this case only - often they are very elucidating). What we need is suggestions about how to make things work.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:03:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How do you change the mindset when you don't control the media? We have only one method - VIRAL.

It's not just about viral/ peer-to-peer, important though that is. Look at YouTube and OhMyNews.  It is becoming possible for us to BE the media.


"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes!  Indeed, we already are....part of them.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:38:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not saying that the tools are not in place - I'm saying that you have to know how to use them.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My quick tuppenceworth:

1) If ET wishes to influence policy, it needs to define some goals, then set up debates in order to meet those goals.  Debates don't disappear.

(What I have noticed is that many ideas appear, some are enthused about, but very few make it past the next news cycle = > new diaries.)

  1. If one of ET's roles is, indeed, as an online interactive magazine...where news cycles are okay--it's sorta like the news only better, more involved, arguments get taken up and dealt with over time (days rather than televisual minutes), etc...well...then I was wondering if the logo might need re-jigging.  It's a tad stodgy, and blue is cool....cool blue...but also a tad conservative (party in many countries)...  I would link this to losing those adverts to my left or right and a general re-jig of the site.  There seem to be enough willing (and able = not me!) tech helpers to do this.

  2. Er..that's it.

  3. Ah yes!  One other thing.  Jerome has stated (or is this a myth?) that he would like ET to be as big as DKos.  I don't know how many diaries the rest of you can get through in a day, but there is a number (we have gone through it recently on certain days) where I'm having to pick and choose, flick over here, then over there...all iss gut, of course, just a comment...something I've noticed.

And so, to link to that, I suppose the question is:

You want people to read what we write....why?  Because we're saying things other people aren't?  In that case, we need to specify what we have said/are saying that others aren't--and publicise ET with it: that's the calling card (policy/influence etc.)  So maybe the dollar vs. euro debate was one o dem.

Or we want to be an example to others...in which case, we should just keep doing what we're doing.  Good examples embody their principles or somesuch...point is, if you advertise ET, people can come here...and see it...so it should match its rhetoric.  (For example, see point 1 above: we are slow at implementation...good at gassing--food for thought--and yes, who mentioned it?  Poemless?  I would add "educative"--that there is a clear didactic element to some conversations here, both in pointing out unknown info., and with questions for specific info...etc... I have learned a lot about wind turbines here...asking questions...so maybe we "have" experts rather than being experts...yack yack!

There was another point.  But I'll stick with the one about people who have deadlines, have to make decisions, have to choose...now...seeing ET as...interesting...setting debate...but...okay here's an example...

Fashion designers need fabrics.  So fabric designers are first in the process of bringing new clothes to market.  Fashion works a year ahead, so fabric designers work two years ahead = they are completely out of sync with current fashion... but in two years their ideas will be on the street... I kinda see some of that going on...

But as an organisation that wishes to influence policy (which I believe Jerome stated he wants us to be...among other things), I'd say we haven't yet produced enough...unless the diaries are what we produce, in which case we're another magazine on the internet stands and we'll have to...funk up the front page...but no!  No flashy things!  No!  No down wid da kids rhetoric!  No!  Just some tech ideas, muck about a bit, make it a bit more...magaziney?  Maybe a not-too-large title across the top?

Woah!  Enough!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:30:13 PM EST
Oh yes, all of that and...then I remembered!  ET makes me think of...



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 05:36:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought that generally, setting the example was OK. But the quality of the euro dollar thread made me think about it... maybe some diaries do deserve inmediate broader audience.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 07:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We could create...a kind of uber front page, where the best of the best (maybe we could choose X number a month via a special thread?) are e-mailed out to various individuals, whether they be politicos, wonkos, journos, etc...maybe create a nice template, with the brief "what is ET" at the top (two sentences max.) followed by "This months links".

But then...you might send economics to people not interested in economics, or something with a regional flavour to someone who's remit is only economics...but then maybe each link could have one or two sentences explaining the diary...so they could click on those they think relevant (and then click on the others because they enjoyed the others so much ;)

My experience is e-mailing my MEP with the eurotrib docs.  The response was...upbeat...I mean friendly, but nothing more...and then from me (European Tribune)...nothing...coz I had nothing else to send as a representative of ET.  So the first rule may be: if you're going to start knocking on doors selling your broomhandles, you have to be schematic.  Make sure you know what you are...offering...and then...work out who you want to offer it to...and then offer offer offer, but links seem fine to me, embedded in an e-mail.  Sooner or later someone will have some spare time, or get curious.  As long as the links are to solid diaries (which can be tweaked by the techs to perhaps...though I would like to leave them as is...let the quality build rather than edit around the edges)...but yes!  I like the idea, and go go, senor kcurie!  All is good!

(PS--I'm looking forward to your diary on magic ;)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Make sure you know what you are...offering...and then...work out who you want to offer it to...and then offer offer offer, but links seem fine to me, embedded in an e-mail.  

I prefer the idea of creating a separate file (prob. pdf) which we could all (of us who want to) e-mail out...more professional and then you have the basic template to give continuity.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe I should have started:

"Re-reading that sentence, I realise it contrasts with my statement about templates, so to clarify, I prefer..."

;)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Jan 5th, 2007 at 09:44:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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