European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

We all climbed on our bikes and went for a picnic. Beautiful weather, though the nights are now cold.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 01:18:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

It's been a gorgeous day here too. I walked around the Bay and went to look at a photography exhibition with a friend. Getting chilly now the sun has gone down too.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 01:27:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

Down? Me. Still feel like crap - couldn't go to the horses this weekend and every-time I try do to anything mildly strenuous I sweat inappropriately. This is making me exceptionally grumpy, even by my standards.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 01:24:06 PM EST

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Hope you are feeling better soon.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 01:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I feel improvement and I´m sending it over. I think it was the magic of appleton´s 151 and staying indoors doing very little.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 02:11:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Elections everwhere... (4.00 / 6)

In Belgium we had them 133 days ago and still no government in sight.

But our Belgian team in the Australian Solar race still first at the end of this first day...

narrowly followed by the Dutch and the Australians. Over 700km of the 3000 in one day.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 01:47:57 PM EST

Belgium (none / 1)

Isn't Belgium doing just fine without a government, per se, over the last 133 days? The system of governance is in place - taxes are still being collected, needs and services are still being done. Belgium hasn't ground to a halt.

Belgium isn't about to go to war or be invaded, does it still need a national government once the societal infrastructure is in place? Does a "government" need to exist every day?

Maybe Belgians should try to see how long they can go without needing to form a government?

Sometimes, at least in the U.S., having a government in session does more harm than good.

by Magnifico on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Belgium (4.00 / 3)

:-)

However, during formation of governments, the previous government is still in place as acting or caretaker government. For example, Verhofstadt represented Belgium on the recent EU summit that decided over the new EU reform treaty.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:16:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Belgium (none / 1)

Ah well, lot's of decisions have to be taken and people start to be aware there is no government.

flandersnews.be - No new government: no discount on diesel

The price of diesel rose Friday to 1.158 euro/litre. In principle, the government could impose the so-called 'reverse click system'.
However, the government has not been implementing the system- since the federal elections of last June.
Finance Minister Didier Reynders explains that the reason for this is that the out-going government is only dealing with the most urgent matters.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:23:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Belgium (4.00 / 2)

I'm surprised that the "drown the government in a bathtub" mob aren't making more of this and saying "See you can do without government"

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:41:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Ferrari wins!! Kimi wins!!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7055442.stm

happy day here in barcelona... at long last after all our trains were shut down...for a week... due te the fact that the cosntruction sectro in spain is ahaming and our politcians to...

Dodo.. a diary!!!! fast!!! :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 02:00:17 PM EST

Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0)

What happened? I can't find anything in my sources.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:08:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

the Ave line (TGV)is due to get to barcelona by the end of this year. ZP Zapatero promised it.. so they hurried up with the works... and the line is paralel to those lines used by the cercanias (the railway local network used by millions to travel around the metropolotan area).

Incompetence and lack of investement in the local network the previous years (there ahs been almost no money for infraestrucutre in Catalonia int he last ten years) had made the work in the AVE line incompatible with a fragile local network... giving multiple problems in the lines .. every week there was aproblem somewhere in the local network... Problem after problem..failure of the service after failure of the service everybody so pissed of that this is becoming the worst nightmare for the socail democrats now in power...

And despite all their supposed efforts yesterday was the culmination of Kafka world... becasue they were in a hurry they did not seal properly a tunel...and then it started to rain and the water drops reached the ground.. ..the water was pumped out but infiltrated the ground... making the displacement of huge amount of soil easy to expect... then a huge vacuum in the ground suck up a trailer .. yes a trailer was eaten by the soil like in a jungle movie... so the engineers decided to fill the soil with concrete... and wella after they put it udner the ground of course they created an extra-pressure.. but they put so much taht the lines and tunnels of the local network whcih go side by side pseudo-collapsed...(luckily not compeltely) Now all the rail network is out of service.... three lines are expected to come back in 15 ydays... another three lines will take two monts...

It is like seeing the twin towers collapse slowly.. without deads... Now everybody uses cars ans buses.. but Barcelona is up in arms basically.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Brilliant stuff.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:13:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Hohohoho... now THAT's a real big fuck-up.

On the general problem: I don't remember if it was you or amanda who gave me a YouTube video of a travel along the Cercanías line paralleling the works, based on that, I can imagine lots of opportunities for hurting local traffic. Better organisation of works can avoid such things (say as was done along Austria's quadrupled Westbahn), but then it takes much longer... let's hope the nightmare is over in 2008 and Barcelonians will forget it.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:23:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I am not sure we will forget that..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiHngNzx3Ms

I was going to move from greens to social democrats becasue I liked the investment in research and teh economic policy (even the first asteps towards fixing global warming) .. but no longer...a president that forgets that train is the most important for Spain given that all good transported with trailer (we are worse than the US here) and which did not launch a huge money cash toward barcelona network at the beginning does not deserve my vote.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:34:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Government is Good (4.00 / 2)

Government is Good

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 02:35:59 PM EST

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Right after seeing Kimi snatch the victory ahead of the warring McLaren pilots (pfui Ferrari-Marlboro-Schumi, but I like Kimi!), I watched the first three days of the Aki Basho (I diaried my love of Sumo). And I saw my favourite, lightest Sumo player Ama, beat both of the tournament's two top contenders:

Ama (starting from the right) beats yokozuna [top rank] Hakuho (both of them are Mongolians) with a truly brilliant move:

Ama (starting from the left) beats fresh ozeki (second rank) Kotomitsuki, a truly heavy player:

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 02:40:56 PM EST

Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0)

(Those of you who watch Sumo and already know the tournament result, please don't tell it! I want the excitement.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 02:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 1)

a truly brilliant move

Uchi Mata

Uchi Mata = Inner thigh throw

by Fete des fous on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 03:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good reference site (4.00 / 4)

Carbon emission trends (by country)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 02:49:58 PM EST

Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0)

Mig, did I just hang up on you? Oh, no...

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:13:06 PM EST

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Saw a rather depressing but important and revealing TV prog which related to comment by In Wales in rg's "Taking the Myth" diary:

It is taking longer to grow up because there is almost nothing to grow up for. Unaffordable property. No clear career paths, an unwillingness from those higher up to give responsibility to younger staff. And when we are project workers, fixed term contracts... you move from one thing to the next, across but not easily up.

By coincidence "Zone Interdite" on M6 on French TV tonight was all about this. For many life is getting tougher - than at least the recent past - now it's almost back to 19th c for many.
They showed the problems young couples have in getting a place to live, even just renting (yes, people like me coming to France add to the problem :-)). A young couple live with the young woman's parents. The young guy is trying to become a member of "police municipale", like his father before him. Yes, a fonctionnaire, and there was lots of competition for few jobs, because it does have a career structure, a decent salary - unlike so many others these days.
The second part was about stress at work, at the extreme end, there's a suicide a day in France due to work stress...

If interested, the rest is at

Taking the Myth

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:42:13 PM EST

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

great comment, ted.

it inspired me to c'n'p this from the irrepressible beppe grillo's blog.

"Dear Minister Padoa Schioppa,
I am a young man aged 30. I work as a labourer and I live in the outskirts of a big city and oh dear, I still live with my parents. The other day I heard your words on the TV. And I immediately identified myself as one of those whom you described as a "great big boy", those thirty year olds whom you would like to "send out of the house". I said to myself. "Great! Minister, you are right!" Thus I went off to my bank to get a mortgage. "Great! Minister, finally I'll have my own house!", I thought!
I earn 1,140 € a month plus a 13th and 14th month, which if they are spread out over 12 months guarantee me a monthly income of 1,330 €.
Given that the monthly repayments cannot be more than 1/3 of the income, I can allow myself repayments of 443 € a month.
With this repayment I can get a mortgage of € 85,850 Euro over 30 years (if I were to wait a bit longer, given my age, they wouldn't give me a 30 year mortgage... Great! Minister, thanks for getting me to hurry!)
With my great calculations in my pocket, I decided to go straight away to a notary, to find out the likely costs of buying a house.
From the 85,850€, in fact I have to take off: - about 4,000 € in taxes for the purchase "just" 4,000 € given that it is my First House (Great! Minister, thanks)

about 3,300 € for the Notary for the purchase

about 3,300 € for the Notary for the mortgage

about 3,000 € for connecting to the utilities water, gas and electricity

Making a total of about 12,800 €
OK that leaves me with 73,050 € for my little home!
I have to furnish it, obviously. I can't be sleeping on the floor... So I went off to a furniture shop and there are lots of them. For now, I'll make do with a kitchen, a table and 4 chairs, a two person sofa, a table for the TV, a big bed, a wardrobe and two bed-side tables.... The bare minimum. I know what I'm like. I can adapt.
7,500 € if I put the furniture together myself! Well... I thought it would be worse!
I've still got a good 65,550 € for my little house. That's still 138 million of once upon a time! (Great! Minister, thanks)
I burst into an estate agency, the moment has arrived....
With 65,550 € they tell me I can buy:

2 garages measuring 28 m2. in the sub-basement of a condominium of 16 floors

2 large rooms (not adjoining each other) each measuring 21 m2 in the semi basement of the adjacent condominium.

For the smallest and cheapest home - a thirty year old two room place measuring 55 m2. on the first floor of a building that is 18/20 km from the city - I would have to spend 110,000 € !
I'm off home, Minister, back to my parents' home, obviously!
I've done some quick calculations: if I'm to afford that two room place, I would have to :

get into debt for 53 years, so that I would be making the final payment at the age of 83 (given that I'd get there)!

or I'd have to earn 2,000 € a month!

Great! Minister, thanks!" A great big boy.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 07:47:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kate Bush (none / 1)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 08:01:30 PM EST

Re: Sunday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Not too recent, but I just stumbled upon these gems:

Bill Maher on France:

Bill Maher on PNAC and Heritage Foundation:

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 11:37:52 PM EST

Sunday Open Thread | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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