Markets, earthquakes, multifractals, and a sales pitch

by Migeru
Mon Oct 29th, 2007 at 07:54:00 PM EST

Nassim Nicholas Taleb has a new book out, and his sales pitch in the Financial Times takes the form of a scathing attack on the "Nobel" prize in Economics, at the same time flattering the egos of the MBAs who presumably are the most likely readers of the FT to buy the book. For a man who claims that Finance is for philistines and that his last two books are only tangentially about finance, in which he "has lost interest", methinks he doth protest too much. Although Jerome picked up on it in an open thread, I find the polemic against the "Nobel" rather uninteresting. But Colman asked me for my reaction and the abundant name-dropping in it does provide me with an opportunity to try to explain a few things from my limited understanding, so here you have, for your enjoyment, a paragraph-by-paragraph analysis of the article.


FT.com: The pseudo-science hurting markets by Nassim Nicholas Taleb on October 23, 2007
Last August, The Wall Street Journal published a statement by one Matthew Rothman, financial economist, expressing his surprise that financial markets experienced a string of events that "would happen once in 10,000 years". A portrait of Mr Rothman accompanying the article reveals that he is consider­ably younger than 10,000 years; it is therefore fair to assume he is not drawing his inference from his own empirical experience but from some theoretical model that produces the risk of rare events, or what he perceives to be rare events.
Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes and floods are events that are also often described as "one-hundred-year events" or something to that effect. I believe that in these cases a probability distribution is empirical and descriptive, rather than model-based. I seem to recall that nothing as simple as a normal distribution actually fits the empirical data. Fear not, I will be researching this point with Nomad's help.
The theories Mr Rothman was using to produce his odds of these events were "Nobel-crowned" methods of the so-called modern portfolio theory designed to compute the risks of financial portfolios. MPT is the foundation of works in economics and finance that several times received the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel. The prize was created (and funded) by the Swedish central bank and has been progressively confused with the regular Nobel set up by Alfred Nobel; it is now mislabelled the "Nobel Prize for economics".
I'm shocked, shocked, but I am sure this will indeed be shocking news to the MBAs reading the FT's "comment and opinion" pages.
MPT produces measures such as "sigmas", "betas", "Sharpe ratios", "correlation", "value at risk", "optimal portfolios" and "capital asset pricing model" that are incompatible with the possibility of those consequential rare events I call "black swans" (owing to their rarity, as most swans are white). So my problem is that the prize is not just an insult to science; it has been putting the financial system at risk of blow-ups.
To briefly cut through the jargon jungle here: MPT is based on the assumption that stock returns are random variables (so far so good) with well-defined means ("alphas"), standard deviations ("sigmas") and "correlation" coefficients (related to "betas"). Under these assumptions it is relatively straightforward to construct an "optimal portfolio" (for a reasonably convincing value of "optimal"), whose "sharpe ratio" is the ratio of its alpha to its sigma. In a perfect world (efficient, complete markets, etc), one is actually able to write down a formula (the capital asset pricing formula) for the price of an asset in terms of its risk and return characteristics. The problem is that, when calculating all these quantities from historical data, the results are dominated by "extreme events". In order to get estimates that don't depend strongly on any one data point, more or less sophisticated "outlier rejection" techniques are used which basically throw out the extreme events in order to produce "robust" estimates. This is, unfortunately, circular. The extreme events which potentially disprove the hypothesis that well-defined alphas, betas and sigmas do exist are thrown out because they prevent one from estimating the alphas, betas and sigmas that the optimal portfolio construction methods require in order to produce a portfolio. "Value at Risk" is actually worse, because it is normally computed not only assuming that standard deviations and correlations exist, but that the random variables involved are actually "normally distributed".
I was a trader and risk manager for almost 20 years (before experiencing battle fatigue). There is no way my and my colleagues' accumulated knowledge of market risks can be passed on to the next generation. Business schools block the transmission of our practical know-how and empirical tricks and the knowledge dies with us. We learn from crisis to crisis that MPT has the empirical and scientific validity of astrology (without the aesthetics), yet the lessons are ignored in what is taught to 150,000 business school students worldwide.
Since I don't write for the Financial Times I can say that I don't give a flying fuck what Business Schools teach their graduates. I would hazard that an MBA is not the kind of qualification people look for when hiring a risk manager or trader. A serious command of probability and statistics is required and that's not what Business School is about. In my experience, (undergraduate) Business students' reaction to the word "mathematics" would be to run away screaming in the opposite direction were it not for the fact that some of it is required for graduation. Given his fondness for the work of Mandelbrot, one would hope that Taleb would not advocate making multifractal measures a required topic of study in Business Schools. And, of course, nothing prevents Taleb and his colleagues from distilling their accumulated experience into books and other resources, like Taleb himself has presumably done in his three books "Dynamic Hedging", "Fooled by Randomness" and "Black Swans" (well, actually, he himself claims the latter two are only tangentially about finance). It would be the fault of the professors at business schools if they don't recommend reading his books, but if they have practical value they will spread by word of mouth among practitioners anyway.
Academic economists are no more self-serving than other professions. You should blame those in the real world who give them the means to be taken seriously: those awarding that "Nobel" prize.
Well, clearly the "Nobel" Prize in Economics was created by people with academic degrees in Economics for the purpose of raising the intellectual profile of the discipline among the general public. It's not like the people "in the real world" were not economists to begin with. In fact, Taleb's comparison of Economics with Physics will later allow me to use the Nobel Prize in Physics to argue that, at least in relation with the "Nobel"/Nobel Prizes, academic economists are a tad more self-serving than academic physicists. Yes, I have a degree in Physics myself. So, sue me.
In 1990 William Sharpe and Harry Markowitz won the prize three years after the stock market crash of 1987, an event that, if anything, completely demolished the laureates' ideas on portfolio construction. Further, the crash of 1987 was no exception: the great mathematical scientist Benoit Mandelbrot showed in the 1960s that these wild variations play a cumulative role in markets --- they are "unexpected" only by the fools of economic theories.
The stock market crash of 1987 is the worst such event since the crash of 1929, so let us call it "a 60-year event". If it is, indeed, a sixty-year event it is probably not "unexpected" but it may well be "unpredictable". It is certainly "unaccountable" by the MPT that Sharpe and Markowitz got their "Nobel" prize for. Now, I am not sure that it would be fair to say of a 60-year earthquake [like, for instance, the one in Kobe which was the worst in Japan for over 70 years] that "it completely demolished architects' ideas on building construction". As for the reference to Mandelbrot, I have to admit I don't know quite enough about his work to be able to say what Taleb's vague statement refers to, so I cannot comment. The one thing I know is that Mandelbrot has argued that extreme events are not qualitatively different from the ordinary small-scale movements in the stock market, that they have the same root causes, and that they are described by the same "multifractal probability measure". I hope I am not misrepresenting Mandelbrot and I think Taleb is referring to something along those lines. If I may pursue my geophysics analogy a bit further, I believe it is recognized by seismologists that small and large earthquakes share the same underlying causes and are described by a single probability distribution. The same can be said of meteorology where so-called "scaling laws" ensure that the vortex in a bathtub's drain is essentially the same phenomenon as Hurricane Katrina. This kind of thinking is part of the emerging paradigm of complex, self-organizing systems. It seems to me very likely that financial markets could be described by a variation of the theory of Self-Organised Criticality, which however does not mean that their behaviour should be predictable.
Then, in 1997, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences awarded the prize to Robert Merton and Myron Scholes for their option pricing formula. I (and many traders) find the prize offensive: many, such as the mathematician and trader Ed Thorp, used a more realistic approach to the formula years before. What Mr Merton and Mr Scholes did was to make it compatible with financial economic theory, by "re-deriving" it assuming "dynamic hedging", a method of continuous adjustment of portfolios by buying and selling securities in response to price variations.
Presumably the formula is more or less correct (since people Taleb respects used it in practice) so this is just a matter of the experimentalists resenting the theoreticians for awarding one of their number a prize for showing how the empirical formula can be derived within the theory. Apart from decrying that Thorp did not share the prize, I fail to see what exactly Taleb is complaining about.
Dynamic hedging assumes no jumps --- it fails miserably in all markets and did so catastrophically in 1987 (failures textbooks do not like to mention).
Taleb is, in fact, arguing that Merton and Scholes used the wrong method (dynamic hedging) within the wrong theory (MPT) to arrive at the right (Thorp's) conclusion. What is puzzling about this is that Taleb himself wrote what is essentially a practical textbook on Dynamic Hedging, and he did so after 1987.
But is the formula right or wrong, in Taleb's view? It is a fact that the formula is now used to deduce, from derivative prices, an "implied volatility" (one of Taleb's hated "sigmas") which is a parameter of the Black-Scholes equation. The implied volatility is not a single number, as the pricing formula appears to require, but rather when plotted in a particular fashion it produces a curve called a "volatility smile" that derivatives traders use as a diagnostic tool.
Later, Robert Engle received the prize for "Arch", a complicated method of prediction of volatility that does not predict better than simple rules --- it was "successful" academically, even though it underperformed simple volatility forecasts that my colleagues and I used to make a living.
I don't have any expertise in this area so I'll pass no comment.
The environment in financial economics is reminiscent of medieval medicine, which refused to incorporate the observations and experiences of the plebeian barbers and surgeons. Medicine used to kill more patients than it saved --- just as financial economics endangers the system by creating, not reducing, risk. But how did financial economics take on the appearance of a science? Not by experiments (perhaps the only true scientist who got the prize was Daniel Kahneman, who happens to be a psychologist, not an economist). It did so by drowning us in mathematics with abstract "theorems". Prof Merton's book Continuous Time Finance contains 339 mentions of the word "theorem" (or equivalent). An average physics book of the same length has 25 such mentions. Yet while economic models, it has been shown, work hardly better than random guesses or the intuition of cab drivers, physics can predict a wide range of phenomena with a tenth decimal precision.
Now for the promised argument purporting to show that Academic Physicists are less self-serving than Academic Economists. In 1971 't Hooft and Veltman laid down the theoretical keystone of the Standard Model of Elementary Particle Physics, namely a proof of the renormalizability of non-abelian gauge quantum field theories. However, they had to wait for 28 years before they got their Nobel Prize because, until then, no known experimental result actually required renormalization. Technically, experimental results could be matched with "tree-level" calculations until there was finally one experiment requiring renormalized "one-loop" calculations. For those nearly 30 years nobody had any doubt that 't Hooft and Veltman's work was correct, yet experimental verification (or a first explanation of an experimental result) is required for a Nobel Prize in Physics. It would appear that Economists award each other "Nobel" Prizes without experimental support. Mathematization doesn't make Economics any more of a science, and Mathematical Economics is rather contemptuous of empirical verification. In that it is in good company, as Einstein once said "if observations had not confirmed General Relativity I would have been sorry for Nature, because the theory is correct". Needless to say, Einstein did not receive the Nobel Prize for Relativity, General or Special.
Every time I have questioned these methods I have been abruptly countered with: "they have the Nobel", which I have found impossible to argue with. There are even practitioner associations such as the International Association of Financial Engineers partaking of the cover-up and promoting this pseudo-science among financial intitutions. The knowledge and risk awareness we are accumulating from the current subprime crisis and its aftermath will most certainly not make it to business schools. The previous dozen crises and experiences did not do so. It will be dying with us, unless we discredit that absurd Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel commonly called the "Nobel Prize".
I suppose the reason Taleb insists on referring to Business Schools as if they were the be-all and end-all is that he's writing for the FT and he needs to make his audience, who presumably has been to Business School, feel important. "Read my books" he says "if you want to received the accumulated wisdom gained from the previous dozen crises". He has gotten Colman to buy "Black Swans" and I'll probably get ahold of a copy of "Dynamic Hedging" soon, so his FT sales pitch has achieved some of its objectives. And we don't even have an MBA!
The writer is author of 'The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable', shortlisted for the FT/Goldman Sachs Business Book of the Year Award. The winner will be announced at a dinner in London on Wednesday night
The diarist is a professional smartass.
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I am a bit of Taleb's fan after reading his Fooled By Randomness. His apprehension of knowledge limits is particularly interesting.

I share the skepticism of the "Nobel" prize for economics, if only for the following question: if economists can set up a "Nobel" prize, can anyone with a heap of money then create a Nobel prize, including, say, astrologists or mathematicians?

More seriously, awarded Nobel prizes (whatever Nobel's history) are supposed to solve problems for the whole of humanity. The Nobel awards in economics appear to help a particular class of people rather than the whole of humanity. Are we really better off with hedge funds using fancy (even if true) formulas, for example? Is there a single economics Nobel prize addressing widely important problems such as understanding of big financial crises, or smart management of common resources?

Economics is a pretty shamanic science, still. There might be rather simple objective relations, but with so many variables playing a role it is possible for influential players to hide, create or reverse any correlation. Say, if Reagan's administration indeed compelled OPEC to contain oil prices so to bankrupt USSR, what are modern power holders are able to?

The best economic knowledge is not necessarily shared publicly. Regular folks are forced to participate in stock and real estate markets with very asymmetric knowledge or power. Likewise, most nations have to follow advices of shamans from IMF and the World Bank without much questioning. The public understanding and importance of economics today is very comparable to weather understanding and importance in ancient communities of hunters-gatherers...

by das monde on Mon Oct 29th, 2007 at 10:06:44 PM EST
if economists can set up a "Nobel" prize, can anyone with a heap of money then create a Nobel prize, including, say, astrologists or mathematicians?

Well, Mathematicians do have the Fields Medal, which is only called "the Nobel Prize for Mathematics" by the press, to help their readers understand its importance. Mathematicians don't need to buttress the academic reputation of their discipline so they don't even try to call this a "Nobel" prize. In fact, the Fields Medal is harder to get because it must be awarded to someone under the age of 40.

If you have a lot of money and want to create a prize for Mathematics you forget about stealing respectability from Nobel and just award large wads of cash, as with the Clay Millennium Prize Problems.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 03:51:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, mathematicians now have a very similar Abel prize, awarded in Oslo each year. Tho my opinion, they made a bad "marketing" decision (again) by awarding it in summer when no one pays attention. So mathematicians don't even seek more publicity, or less nerdy image. A stronger parity (or relevance) statement would had been fitting.

The fact that Nobel skipped mathematics probably enforced much of the uber-geeky image of it. Back in the 19th century, mathematicians were probably not seen as socially so hopeless. Especially in France, Laplace, Lagrange and (later) Poincare were flirting with politics. (A controversial story goes that Nobel did consider math as important science, but had personal quibbles.)

Would you say that economists are "stealing respectability from Nobel"?

by das monde on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 05:09:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, the Abel Prize is not similar. To begin with, Abel was a mathematician, unlike Nobel, and the prize was instituted to mark the 200 anniversary of Abel's birth.

The prize is in the summer because it coincides with an annual conference (again, instituted to celebrate the 200th anniversary) which fits [Northern Hemisphere] mathematicians just fine because during the summer break they are generally free of teaching duties and can go to conferences and symposia more easily.

In other words, the Abel Prize organizers and the Mathematical community at large has its own motivations and doesn't really care about the news cycle.

By the way, it is rumoured that the reason there isn't a Nobel Prize for Mathematics is that Nobel's wife had an affair with a mathematician. Though Nobel himself did justify his decision to exclude mathematics in its less than practical nature.

And, yes, both Taleb and I agree that naming the Bank of Sweden Prize "in memory of Alfred Nobel" (who wasn't an Economist either) is a ploy by Economists to share the respectability of the Nobel prize in order to raise the academic profile of their discipline.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 06:38:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Except that Nobel was apparently never married ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 06:52:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From das monde's "personal quibble" link above:

Fields Institute - Mittag-Leffler and Nobel

The persistent rumor that Nobel did not establish a prize in mathematics because Mittag-Leffler had an affair with Nobel's wife is certainly incorrect. Nobel never married. But the other version of this rumor, founded on hostility between Nobel and Mittag-Leffler, may be correct though there is no documentation to support it. Certainly there appear to have been ill feelings between the two men:
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 08:34:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be healthy for mathematicians if the public would perceive a prize for them as "completely" parallel to a Nobel prize, without much commentary. Abel prize was a good opportunity. (I do not particularly get the point about the 200th anniversary - anniversaries last one year.)

The idea of Abel prize was conceived immediately with the start of Nobel era. From Wikipedia:

Sophus Lie became the first proponent of establishing an Abel Prize when Lie learned that Alfred Nobel's plans for annual prizes, made known in 1897, would not include a prize in mathematics. King Oscar II was willing to finance a mathematics prize in Abel's name, and the mathematicians Ludwig Sylow and Carl Størmer drew up statutes and rules for the proposed prize. However, the dissolution of the Union between Sweden and Norway in 1905 ended the first attempt to create the Abel Prize.
by das monde on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 12:40:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting fact about the origin of the Abel Prize.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the 200th anniversary was used as a convenient excuse to get the momentum to organize the conference and award the prize, which then became annual and are organized every year in August.

I don't know why it would be "healthy" for mathematics that people perceive the prize as "completely parallel to the Nobel". Call me a Nobel sceptic.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 08:54:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Economists have one like that, too:  the John Bates Clark Medal.  Have to be under 40 to receive it, given every two years, yadda yadda yadda.

As it is, I've found the list on Clark recipients to be far more appealing than that of the Bank of Sweden prize.  The Nobel is handed out like candy on Halloween to every wacko who knows someone.

Unfortunately, the Clark Medal is only given to Yanks, so it misses some important people, but the list reads much better than that of the Nobel.

(For the record, I agree that calling it a Nobel Prize is ridiculous, especially given some of the clowns who've received it over the years.  I usually call it that simply because it's easier to say than "The Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Science in Memory of Alfred Nobel," or whatever the official name.)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 08:20:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
from Taieb that I gained, and it's one that requires no high mathematics, is that rare events are easily mispriced - usually by underestimating their probability of happening.

And Taieb's betting strategy, basically, was to get 10,000:1 odds on events that he thought had really a 1 in a 1000 chance of happening - so he'd, on average, lose 999 times one and would win one time 10,000, which sounds like a smart betting strategy if he is indeed able to better estimate the probability of happening of said event.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 07:37:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Both by underestimating their probability and by wilfully ignoring their existence by filtering out their existence from both mental and formal models. He seems to be talking about all sorts of related bad mental habits we have, but I'm only half-way through "Black Swans" (on audiobook).
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 07:42:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Probability is of limited use in a dynamic environment subject to asymmetrical - unanticipated, for one - shocks that restructure the environment.  

No one could have predicted
by ATinNM on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 12:28:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I share the skepticism of the "Nobel" prize for economics, if only for the following question: if economists can set up a "Nobel" prize, can anyone with a heap of money then create a Nobel prize, including, say, astrologists or mathematicians?

Well yes they can, but only if they have the political clout to influence important things in favor of the Nobel foundation. The background history of the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel is kind of interesting.

In the original will the Nobel foundation was only allowed to invest the money in bonds. The yields were not that good and in the 60'ies the once impressive price sums had shrunk considerably. The Nobel foundation believed that prudent investment in stocks would be better, but that contradicted the foundations charter. At the time there was a great belief in the possibility to socially engineer society, specially in among leading politicians. Bit of tit for tat and now the foundations assets are thriving and we have the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel handed out at the same time in the same forms as the Nobel prizes in physics, chemistry, medicin and litterature.

I think the Right Livelihood Award was intended as an extra Nobel prize, but apparently the possibility of a tit for tat was not present.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 11:36:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting!

Are the prizes in economics awarded in the same ceremony?

by das monde on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 12:44:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, same ceremony, and that is essentially what makes it commonly viewed as a Nobel prize.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 10:09:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I always find quite ridiculous these kind of disregard for MBA programs, they are quite useful, thanks to my MBA i can understand 10% of EuroTrib instead of estimated 1% previously.Of course that is an average, for this particular post, i ve understood 5-6% that explain why i ve got only 89% in Financial Management and lost all understanding of MPT 10 minutes after the exams :-)).

the only thing i am able to visualize for my investments is a drunk man walking on an upward road. i use indexed funds ;-)

by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Mon Oct 29th, 2007 at 11:07:38 PM EST
Is that 5% of my stuff and 100% of Taleb's, or 0% of my stuff and 15% of Taleb's?

Maybe you can explain to me what the point of Taleb's FT piece is other than to say "Dear Esteemed MBA holders, you most worthy of peoples are being cheated of my wisdom by the evil academic Economists and their phoney prize - you should read the work of Mandelbrot". To which I reply that the critique of the "Nobel" prize is a facile attention grabber, the references to MBA schools are just flattering the audience (he could equally have said Statistics students are being robbed of the wonderful wisdom, but that wouldn't sell any books), and the reference to Mandelbrot is not to pretty pictures but to stuff arcane enough that none of the math graduate students populating wikipedia has what it takes to explain it.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 03:31:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
To which I reply that the critique of the "Nobel" prize is a facile attention grabber, the references to MBA schools are just flattering the audience (he could equally have said Statistics students are being robbed of the wonderful wisdom, but that wouldn't sell any books),

I'm not reading it like that at all. His problem is that academic economics is nonsense, and while he claims to have useful non-academic knowledge - always a suspect claim unless backed up by proof - all he's really saying is that there's no link between theory and practice.

FT.com / Comment & analysis / Comment - The pseudo-science hurting markets

The knowledge and risk awareness we are accumulating from the current subprime crisis and its aftermath will most certainly not make it to business schools. The previous dozen crises and experiences did not do so.

Which is true, but it's missing the point. The knowledge and risk awareness required to avoid another sub-prime are political.

It's not about Greek letters and ever more obscure statistcal analysis - it's about people being allowed to act like conmen with the backing of the markets, because it's profitable in the short term.

I agree he's wrong, but I think he's wrong for the wrong reasons - it's not that Multifractals or Market Choice Theory or Auction Game Theory are right or wrong empirically, it's more that the idea that you can shrink-warp human transactions in a lurid Platonic packaging to make them appear transcendent, algorithmic and impersonal is inherently nonsense.

The myth that's being peddled here is market inevitability. In reality there's nothing inevitable about markets at all - statistically, politically or fractally.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 06:52:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Clarify something for me. In your opinion, to what extent can one bring quantitative methods to bear on the problem of political economy?

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 07:24:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Socratic answer - what variables are involved in determining the actual market price of a commodity?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 07:50:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The price elasticity of demand is one of them.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 08:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The available supply of the commodity and the demand for it, together with the nature of the supply-demand curve, to a first approximation.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:04:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a subsidiary question to go with that.

...the emerging paradigm of complex, self-organizing systems. It seems to me very likely that financial markets could be described by a variation of the theory of Self-Organised Criticality...

Models of financial markets differ from descriptions of the behaviour of earthquakes or vortices in that they imply action. They are used to make investment decisions, in other words actions within the field described. To what extent can models integrate the consequences of future decisions made by those who use them as tools? Can efforts to do so be described as successful?

Can these questions not be applied to economic models generally?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 08:57:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe the use of "described" here is very precise: there may be little predictive content.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 08:59:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then are such models misused by those who take them as aids to decision?

And can this be further said of economic models more broadly?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:06:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Economic models are routinely used and abused by people who do not understand their limited applicability. We've been saying that for ages.

Liberalising markets will improve the lot of people up to a point under certain circumstances. A rising tide will life all boats and this may be a good thing, unless some of the boats are on short anchors. Central planning is less effective than market forces under certain circumstances. Free trade is a win-win game some of the time.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:13:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup, indeedy.

The underlying problems can be shown thus:

In Logic the Material Conditional is:

If 'we have a rising tide' then 'all boats will be lifted'  (A -> B)

with the Truth Table:

A   B  A -> B
T   T    T
T   F    F
F   T    T
F   F    T

BUT

I can use Leibniz's Law (two things equal to the same thing are equal to each other¹) to recast the Material Implication to an OR statement:

NOT A OR B

and rephrase:

NOT 'a rising tide' OR 'all boats will be lifted'

Analyzing we see we have A in the first statement and NOT A in the second with the result A, 'a rising tide,' has no necessary correlation with B, 'all boats will be lifted' therefore A has no predictive relational value to B.  So, no matter how many times a 'rising tide' is followed by 'all boats lifted' it is purely happenstance.

Secondly, in B we have a Categorical Statement using the ALL quantification.  And ALL means: every last friggin' one.  Should we find even one boat - barnacled to the bottom? - not lifted the proposition falls.

Assembling the above, the Logically correct formulation is:  'A rising tide may, or may not, lift some boats.'  Which, however intellectually unexciting, is unassailable.

Expanding, it can now be seen any statement:

IF {Macroeconomic Statement} THEN {Microeconomic Statement}

is fundamentally flawed.  Which explains the lack² of any paper proving a necessary causal relationship between the two fields.  It is this that destructs the claim of modus ponens defined as:

IF A THEN B
A
Thus, B

as one would like a proof of the necessary casual relationship between A and B; otherwise the argument can be dismissed as a Post Hoc ergo Promptor Hoc Logical Fallacy.  Or, to put it another way, without empirical evidence the modus ponens is only persuasive to those already persuaded.

¹  They both have the same Truth Table

²  Unless there has been one published in the last 3 years ... and I would be grateful to be directed to it.


No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 01:34:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Many models fail because they are used to extrapolate. Prediction always involves extrapolation in the time domain, but the problem (as has been pointed out repeatedly in ET threads by others) is that a lot of the financial market players have been "marking to model" the value of their assets when the market was in regimes that were outside that covered by past data. That is, they were extrapolating and the error bars in such a case get very bad very quickly!

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:29:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You left out a key phrase...

...financial markets could be described by a variation of the theory of Self-Organised Criticality, which however does not mean that their behaviour should be predictable.

Vortices or earthquakes may not involve action but they may already be inherently unpredictable.

But in financial terms, while a lot of attention is paid to "alpha" (stock picking a la Warren Buffet or with an expert computer system), I have heard claims that "active" branch of "fund management" is, on average, no better than chance. The issue is one of "survivorship bias" where the stock pickers that go broke drop out of the statistical series. If you only average over the ones that happened to be right, you get great performance.

The less sexy part of fund management is the management of risk. It involves not so much predicting what is going to happen, but figuring out relationships between different assets that will allow a particular portfolio to remain stable even if things go badly wrong. This is where the Markowitz Mean-Variance approach clashes with more complex approaches, but in the end description and risk management doesn't imply prediction. Good risk management won't make you rich like good stock-picking will, but it's an entirely different game.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:26:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I actually left prediction out deliberately, since I don't think it's necessary to my question. Your risk management example is closer to what I was thinking about.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 10:12:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At least as long as it's only a small minority of the actions that are driven by knowledge of those models.

By way of analogy, Danish newspaper Politiken held a contest some time ago in which the readers were asked to guess a number between 1 and 100. The correct answer was two thirds of the average answer.

A friend and I set out to make an educated guess. In a fashion, this is similar to your question of economic modeling: If everyone was numerate (and everyone knew everyone else was numerate), the answer would be zero, since everyone would realise that everyone else would attempt to under-guess their guess by a third, resulting in, if you will, a race to the bottom.

Our assumption, however, was that only a tiny fraction of the population is truly numerate - tiny enough to not make a perceptible difference whichever model they used to predict the answer.

We further assumed that 25 % of the population is totally innumerate, and that their guess would be 66 (which is pretty much the second-dumbest guess you can possibly make - it is left as an exercise to the reader to figure out why, and what the dumbest guess is).

We figured that 50 % would figure out that 66 is a dumb answer, and go for 44 instead (2/3 of 66), which, while smarter, is still not very bright.

Twenty percent, we figured, would take it one iteration further, to 25, and I can't recall how we modeled the last five, but I think we assumed that they were sufficiently numerate that they would figure out that it was a race to the bottom, but sufficiently lazy to not do the proper math, and thus go for zero. This gives you a correct answer somewhere in the region of 24, if my math isn't all wrong. The correct answer was 21-point-something.

Now, without access to the actual distribution, it's impossible to say whether our assumptions were correct (I personally have a bit more trust in my fellow human beings than my friend does, so I'd tend to assume that it wasn't a fully 25 % who answered 66), but the final result certainly doesn't disprove it. Furthermore, it illustrates that it is indeed possible to model a system that the participants can modify directly - assuming that you assume that most of the participants are too ignorant/lazy/stupid to figure out the rules.

I guess that the take-home point is that if you don't know exactly what you're doing on the stock market, you're going to get suckered by the people who do...

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:30:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Twenty percent, we figured, would take it one iteration further, to 25, and I can't recall how we modeled the last five, but I think we assumed that they were sufficiently numerate that they would figure out that it was a race to the bottom, but sufficiently lazy to not do the proper math, and thus go for zero. This gives you a correct answer somewhere in the region of 24, if my math isn't all wrong. The correct answer was 21-point-something.

2/3 of 44 is 29, not 25, and I get a final answer of 29.

But that's not important: thanks for a very amusing story.

You may find this quotation interesting...

Or, to change the metaphor slightly, professional investment may be likened to those newspaper competitions in which the competitors have to pick out the six prettiest faces from a hundred photographs, the prize being awarded to the competitor whose choice most nearly corresponds to the average preferences of the competitors as a whole; so that each competitor has to pick, not those faces which he himself finds prettiest, but those which he thinks likeliest to catch the fancy of the other competitors, all of whom are looking at the problem from the same point of view. It is not a case of choosing those which, to the best of one's judgement, are really the prettiest, not even those which average opinion genuinely thinks the prettiest. We have reached the third degree where we devote our intelligences to anticipating what the average opinion expects the average opinion to be. And there are some, I believe, who practive the fourth, fifth and higher degrees.
John Maynard Keynes in The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money


We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:49:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
2/3 of 44 is 29, not 25, and I get a final answer of 29.

Meh. Right. Should've learned by now to check my calculations before making smartass comments...

At any rate, I think I remember our assumptions wrong. I distinctly remember the prize answer being in the vicinity of 21, and us being less than 2 away from it.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:58:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just to nitpick and be a real smartass myself, the 5% of numerates who would respond zero are probably illiterates, since the range was set from 1 to 100...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 10:34:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't recall the exact text. It may have been 0-100. At any rate, we didn't much concern ourselves with it, because the difference is minor and our own guess wasn't anywhere near that region anyway...

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 10:05:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent quote from Keynes.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 10:35:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It applies very well to nomination of Democratic candidate for US presidential elections.
by das monde on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 12:50:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The press calls it "electability".

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 02:53:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but this diary is mental masturbation - which, of course, can be fun and gratifying. The comments tell the true story - especially Jake's and the quotation from Keynes above.

Taleb is essentially correct, however self-promoting. There is no mathematical prediction device that can work consistently, because some percentage of the people involved are making decisions based on the marketing ploys of various other competing, self-interested actors. It is a multi-board game of chess, and some are playing checkers.

The only strategies that work in the short- and middle-run are based on close observations of the other players and "counting cards". In the long-run the nature of the market Phoenix causes self-conflagration, and many of the actors are caught in the flames. The survivors have - like the animals sensing an impending earthquake - sold off quietly in favor of the scarce and/or real assets that actually have value. Then all of the non-actors pay more than their share for the show. Time for a different game.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 12:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aristotle's ethics has the aspect that it is not morality that determines actions, but actions (and habits) determine morality. (See the section Weakness Of Will in the link, for example.)

The reason that I bring this up is that this resonates with Taleb's view that it is not theoretical strategies that determine winners and loosers in stock markets, but the expressed behavior. There are so many people playing in stock markets, and most of them certainly do not think too much of best theoretical strategies or recursive reasoning. Most of the players just follow a set of "tricks", action thumb rules, over and over again - we may say, that each player follows a limited set of behaviors. I am not implying that they do not think deductively or recursively at all - they do, but only so much as it is "needed". Although rational planning undoubtedly plays a role in their "evolutionary" battle, stock traders mostly survive and "die" following their usual tricks and impulses. Even the hedge fund stars rely on "learned behavior" of their computers. Bringing general principles to their logical conclusions is just too tedious and not very profitable, probably. Maybe you can be smarter than most of them, but in practice the extra recursive smartness does not mean much. (Much more important for a new smart is to gain experience and to avoid elementary but costly mistakes.)

This is similar to the poker game: whatever your capabilities of recursive psychology, it all boils down to action with very few options: you raise, you call, or you fold. You can make a deadly mistake after an elaborate deduction, or you can make a killing move just by guessing. You become a successful player if you happen to develop a right set of behavioral tactics (both regarding your card choice and nonverbal communication) that thrives (to some extent) in the game environment that you participate.

Similarly, stock markets are environments where traders with wrong impulses won't survive long, and many regular players will continue making a living there just because their trading habits are rich and appropriate enough. New theoretical knowledge may update the behaviors (with some inertia), but more important for the evolution of market environment are other issues: Is the market expanding? Is there much "plankton" money from less experienced market players? How do market regimes change? How does the environment improve or degrade as more players start following the same "best" strategies? The questions are complex, but each particular decision (however shalowly or deeply thought) either keeps you alive or sinks. Accordingly, as the circumstances gradually or abruptly change, some behavioral strategies may blow up "unexpectedly", or more generally, thrive or fail in lesser or greater degrees.

The "black swan" events are not predictable from the empirical experience by definition. They might be predicted from some theoretical knowledge base (as we are actually trying to do) - and it must be certainly advantageous to traders to anticipate where the current trends may logically lead to. But practical parameters (such as time, scale) of theoretical predictions are still very uncertain - hence "market dynamics" rules the day even in crazy times.

by das monde on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 05:18:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To what extent can models integrate the consequences of future decisions made by those who use them as tools?

Talking about computer-based models ...

Normally a model does not include the affective or effective factors of using the model.  The reasons are turgid but essentially boil down to:  when you start to model the affects and effects of your model things get out of hand real fast.  Most models aren't worth spit after about 100 iterations, or so, because of Chaos anyway and the number of useful iterations decreases as you pile on the Complexity.  

And you can't get more Complex than a self-referential model.  

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 02:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Aaah, so you're talking about the brain again? ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 03:15:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think Feynman once said that sometimes the most computationally efficient way to solve the Schrödinger equation is to set up the actual physical system and measure it in the lab.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 04:15:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe, but since when were chicks impressed by lab results? Real men don't mess around with experiments.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 04:21:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was once chosen for bedding on the result of a biorhythm print out from a machine in an all night kosher deli in upper Santa Monica - or doesn't that count?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 05:58:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.livinglabs-europe.com/

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 05:55:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the idea that you can shrink-warp human transactions in a lurid Platonic packaging to make them appear transcendent, algorithmic and impersonal is inherently nonsense.

recc'd for great writing!

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 08:57:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Especially for the brilliant typo!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 09:01:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A few quick off-the-cuff comments.

Your link to the Kobe earthquake links back to your own diary - did you mean to link this instead?

Markets, earthquakes, multifractals, and a sales pitch

I am not sure that it would be fair to say of a 60-year earthquake [like, for instance, the one in Kobe which was the worst in Japan for over 70 years] that "it completely demolished Japanese architects' ideas on building construction".

It would not be fair - but having said that, there were reported some nasty effects because of the Kobe quake. One is already described in the wiki-link: buildings collapsed because of a lack of reinforced walls and heavy roofs - which were put there to prevent damage from tropical cyclones. Engineering has an empirical approach to it - but to say that the Kobe quake reset every idea ever produced on building construction of course doesn't fly.

Markets, earthquakes, multifractals, and a sales pitch

I believe it is recognized by seismologists that small and large earthquakes share the same underlying causes and are described by a single probability distribution.

I may be a dolt in statistics, but this one I can confirm.

Markets, earthquakes, multifractals, and a sales pitch

The same can be said of meteorology where so-called "scaling laws" ensure that the vortex in a bathtub's drain is essentially the same phenomenon as Hurricane Katrina.

Apparently, this is not applicable to the spin of the vortex - because in a bath tub the coriolis force is too small compared to other forces involved to actually affect the spin of the draining water... See here.

by Nomad on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 08:33:42 AM EST
has the empirical and scientific validity of astrology (without the aesthetics)

lol!

great diary, migeru

The diarist is a professional smartass.

yup, but also geniale...

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 08:56:15 AM EST
Ever since that shroom trip...

uh, nevermind. Colman summed up the problem.

Economic models are routinely used and abused by people who do not understand their limited applicability.

Economists are the enablers, willingly or not. The problems created by the management class lie in psychology 101, and will remain there unless humanity-as-an-individual decides to mature beyond the three-year-old toddler mentality it currently has - purely selfish and just beginning to form the edges of self-awareness.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Oct 30th, 2007 at 01:26:59 PM EST
I enjoyed The Black Swan, once I became comfortable with the author's several-sigma personal and literary style.

Reading your diary, I'm afraid I found myself thinking of Warren McCulloch's reputed response to a certain sort of criticism: "Don't bite my finger -- Look where I'm pointing!"

The way Taleb waves his finger probably has gotten it bitten off a few times (and then, Hydra-like...). He does, however, point to important patterns in the world, including patterns formed by experts ignoring patterns.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

by technopolitical on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 02:45:37 AM EST
The diary is probably mental masturbation but it is definitely not a review of The Black Swan, I'll leave that to Colman and, like I've said, I'll probably read Dynamic Hedging very soon. It's a reaction to what I think is an atrocious article full of name-dropping, pandering and polemic which doesn't seem to be waving the finger in any useful direction and honestly puts me off actually reading The Black Swan.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 03:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You'll be pleased to hear that The Black Swan is full of name-dropping and polemic; I don't know about the pandering. On the other hand, the book gives enough context to let one become amused by the over-the-top aspects, and still get more than just entertainment from it.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.
by technopolitical on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 02:36:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I'm going to read Terry Pratchett's Making Money instead. </snark>

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 05:27:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't read that one. Is it good?

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.
by technopolitical on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 12:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was just published. I'll found out soon whether it is any good, but if, as I expect, it pokes fun at the finance "Masters of the Universe", it should be a good read.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 at 07:55:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Strangely enough, that's the other audiobook I've been listening to.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 at 08:08:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Problem is.. he is probably right.. most of the mathematics in economy are purely related with self-cosnistency.. this is .. it is just to verify or not fif youa re making a logic mistake. Tehy do nto provide any understanding.

In the same sense, one can use statistical tools to analyze finantial data.. but this does not mean that you understand anything at all about what is happening.. and he is probably saying that ... ep... doing this kind of stuff makes people thing they "know" something when the point is that , precisely, the starting point is that one doe snot udnerstand anything.

And regarding physics... of course Einstein did not get a Nobel for his general theory of relativty.... becasue until now is basically useless regarding experimetnal data...except for the now so famous and unique case of GPS. Special realitvity is a whole different history and I would say that if Einstein would nto be dead one could perfectly give him the nobel for that...not necessarily but he could be certainly in line with some other people :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 02:32:14 PM EST
In a previous life I attended a very good 3-week summer school and workshop on the Physics of Turbulence. It turns out there is a split in the community.

The (theoretical) physicists have fallen back on "predicting" the statistical characteristics of full-blown turbulent flow.

The engineers and climatologists are still studying the navier-stokes equations and boundary layers at the transition between laminar and turbulent flow.

Predicting the statistical characteristics of turbulent flow and its scaling laws do precious little to help predict actual flow conditions.

A similar thing might be true of finance, with the difference the black-scholes equation is less well founded than the navier-stokes equation, there isn't an equivalent equation for most asset classes (only vanilla derivatives). And the methods of analysis of complex systems theory may be able to elucidate statistical properties and scaling laws, but they will predict precious little.

Though, as I say in another comment, just because you cannot get good "alpha" doesn't mean a better understanding of statistical properties and scaling laws won't lead to better risk management.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 at 02:51:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I worked in the technical areas of ferrous casting for some years. The flow experts would show up at various times with a pouring-system design based on lamellar-flow theories or with a fume-removal system similarly conceived. They never worked well.

At some point in the early 80s, experimentalists started working on flow-design software that started with some of the basic, practical rules that foundry people had been working out for hundreds of years. Then they used reiterative feedback from first-article sampling studies to build really successful programs.

You may know that the numerical analysis people got involved by the mid-80s, and that their tools are useful for several types of design questions, including stress studies and solidification modelling. You may also know that, besides being an iterative process in the mathematical sense, these programs have been improved via the same practical-feedback approach, too.

And what are statistics but condensed practical experience?

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 05:16:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't know about any of that. It sounds very interesting.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 at 07:55:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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