European Tribune

Tuesday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris
Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 12:39:41 PM EST

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I was at a conference today about the equality agenda in Wales and the implications for trade unions.  Went well.  There's a lot the union movement needs to do.  I hope we'll start seeing more action.

Long day though!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 12:46:01 PM EST
It would be nice, but I have reservations. Unions have too often protected the interest of men, preserving pay differentials against women instead of arguing for equality. I think they have to demonstrate a tranparency in their dealings that most have, up to now, been unwilling to indulge. Some local authority unions ought to pay back dues paid by women because of the bad faith they showed over decades.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 12:55:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very fair points, but we are seeing a more genuine drive to engage with and represent tradionally excluded groups.  

I want to see unions pick the ball up now.  'Minority' groups have got to reach a critical mass at some point.  The old boys are going to get too old to keep up with it all.  Every rep on the ground that I talk to (including blokes) is on board with moving equalities forward, it just when you start to talk about the particulars of it that things fall down.

But I am seeing an increasing will to improve.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 01:42:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Scholars' Research Spawned PDAs: German, French Scientists Win Nobel Prize in Physics - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

If you're reading this article or own anything with a hard drive, chances are good that you owe a debt of gratitude to the two men -- France's Albert Fert and Germany's Peter Grünberg -- awarded this year's Nobel Prize in physics.

 Physicist Peter Grünberg joined the ranks of Albert Einstein, Marie Curie and Niels Bohr Tuesday as a Nobel physics laureate. German physicist Peter Grünberg and France's Albert Fert were awarded the Nobel Prize in physics Tuesday for their independent discovery of a method of storing and transporting information that has made many of today's household and portable electronic devices -- from iPods to PDAs -- smaller and faster.

In 1988 both men discovered the giant magnetoresistance phenomenon (GMR), which showed that weak magnetic fields force large changes in electrical resistance, allowing data stored magnetically to be converted into signals that computers can read. GMR brought about the field of spintronics, which holds that using the spin of an electron -- rather than its electrical charge -- in magnetic storage devices allows for much more information to be stored in a much smaller space -- hence small laptops, music players, multi-function cell phones and other small electronic

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 01:41:57 PM EST
Doesn't this article emphasize how these two men embody the dynamism of the European continent, or something like that?

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 01:48:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and that physics sometimes is really useful.. but really really useful,  not-in-the-normal-way-we-sell-hot -air so common lately in physics and biology..

(specially Dawkins.. or Craig Venter...ji ji jijji I know I know I am bad)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 02:02:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My hubby did the happy dance when he heard the news - he's also a spintronics researcher.

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tztmail at gmail dot com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 01:49:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have learnt that the demcocrats have not completely capitualted on the US constitution.. well at  least not yet..

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/index.html

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 02:04:45 PM EST
There are two responses I have to that.

Regarding FISA that even if all of the good progressive restrictions make it into the legislation, it is entirely dependent upon the WH honouring the law. Do I hear a signing statement coming on ?

Equally it is good that people are evolving beyond the Kos principle of any democrat is a good democrat. With so many of the current Blue Dog and DLC encumbants being nothing better than Bush enablers I am pleased to see that senior bloggers are realising that they first must get better democrats in DC. I think this will in turn lead to a realisation that neither Hilary nor Obama will deliver the changes America needs.

US politics will get much more intersting from an observers point of view. But I think it will be a fraught few years of internal (to DC) strife when really the US has other more important things to do domestically and internationally. I fear for the US at the moment, although I am hopeful in the long term, that the lack of useful leadership will be sorely lacking at a time when it is critically needed.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 02:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yes.. as always the WH can do whatever it wants.. but it will veto this law by default.and then doa gian what it wants.. no impeachment.. no problem..
regardign future US leadership.. one never knows.. the problem is that there are still ahuge part of the US oligarchy that can not see how their ideology is making the US less powerful .. no more powerful.. so it will ebinteresting to see but I doubt the US wil somehow regain/retain the status of unique superpower..

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 02:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whilst it still has those carrier groups and all those nuclear weapons, I'm sure it will remain a superpower, simply because it will always be able to project overwhelming military power.

We might wonder if the economic crisis will get to s bad that the US will shrink like a dot on a tv screen, but it will never get so bad that the military will go short, even if millions of americans starve.

In terms of soft power, it will always have europe. Our self-replicating elite class remain eternally supine in the face of american bluster.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 03:12:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One option is that what happens then is people clamour to be drafted, because it means two - er - one decent meal a day and a warm-ish place to sleep, at least some of the time.

At least until you get blown up. But that's still more than civilians get, so worth the risk.

The US military machine is already the biggest welfare program in history. It's a short step from there to making this explicit, and leaving people to work out for themselves what it means for them.

Bush and Cheney would love a world that looks like this. The only thing keeping them from making it a reality is that they don't have what it takes to make it happen.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 05:30:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is that intended to describe the present, or a likely future scenario?
The Poverty Draft : Military Recruitment : Youth & Militarism : AFSC
The US military takes advantage of an economy that increasingly squeezes out those without a college degree, while gutting college financial aid and eliminating affordable


We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 05:33:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that's already happening. It's why recruiters hang around the poverty malls.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The future version starts with recruitment of what's left of the middle classes.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In Montpellier, looking for an apartment or small house to buy. It's just frustrating so far; of course what we'd REALLY like is about 100k euros more than we want to pay. While central/old Montpellier is a pedestrian's delight, and full of lovely cafe-filled squares, driving around it to get to various suburbs is a pain. No "coups de coeur" yet. I think one week for the most expensive purchase of my life is not going to be enough. But maybe that gem will turn up tomorrow :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 02:31:06 PM EST
good luck. I agree that wanting a 100K euros extra is what everybody tends to think.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 02:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks - the money would go a lot further in Bulgaria - but I'd rather build on my schoolboy French than learn Bulgarian - and then there's more sun down here and I now have my Carte Vitale :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:02:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FRONT PAGE Woooooo

</SMUG>

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 03:50:25 PM EST
C'mon, ceebs, anyone can mention chocolate. ;-)

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 04:07:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If Only I'd worked out it was that easy earlier ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 04:09:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Go for it!

Potential new titles:

World on brink of nuclear chocolate breakdown

Cheney loses Veep job, becomes chocolate salesman

Pregnant Soviet space chocolate cockroaches

and, and...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 02:06:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, the ultimate, cropped from ATinNM's chocolatey comment in the Chocolate Quakers thread:

Mind-altering chocolate-fed mice well-being diminishes anxiety enhanced meso-limbic pleasure peaks during orgasm

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 02:33:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This story is getting even more disturbing: Why were six nuclear missiles flown to staging area for Middle East?

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 03:58:16 PM EST
Yup.

We've recently had a good chew over that. If I could be arsed to search the ET site I'd link to it...

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 04:36:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OT: I sent you e-mail, Chris.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 05:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll do it for you, then...

ChrisCook:

This

B52 Nukes were headed for Iran: Air Force Refused

is apparently behind the wall on the "Wayne Madsen Report" site.

I don't buy it, any more than I buy some of Seymour Hersh's stuff.

It reeks of a story planted to ramp up the pressure on Iran. But then, I know damn all about Madsen and the stuff he writes.

See the comment thread under that.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 05:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Madsen makes stuff up.

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See the comment thread.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 03:19:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks, I must have missed that one.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 09:41:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't think there are any extra details in that over what I read last week.

doing some reading around the subject i came across
Strengthening Nuclear Security Against Post-September 11 Threats of Theft and Sabotage
(PDF warning)  which includes the following quote. It's the one case where 9/11 changing everything is a positive.

Working with Russia, the United States should launch a new initiative to control and secure weapons of mass destruction in both their countries and worldwide. The September 11 attacks have created a security moment as unique as the collapse of the Soviet Union, justifying a new initiative...

and looking at Verification Technologies: Measures for
Monitoring Compliance With the START
Treaty
December 1990
OTA-ISC-479
NTIS order #PB91-131813
(pdf warning)

Agreement to base different types of bombers
at different locations may ease monitoring of the
different configurations.

now that suggests that it's a possibility that to ensure treaty compliance that Nucular bombers should be based seperately from conventional bombers, but theress no indication whether this was actually carried out. and for security reasons a lot of nucular security procedure links are now dead.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 05:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn missed the point of the second paragraph out. If the agreement to base bombers  seperately is in existence then a loaded bomber shouldn't be parked on a transit base.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:30:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They ask 10 questions. To which my answer to all fo them would be to consider the actions of Bush/cheney and then go "well duh !!"

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly my reaction.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 09:40:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but it's the 40th anniversary of the assassination of Che Guevara.

Viva La Revolución...

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 04:14:32 PM EST
Mark Steel did (I discover) a programme about him.

Part 1 (9 minutes)

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYtABuJF_D4

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7FQsTfoEU
-------

Here's another take (again this is 9 minutes and part 1)

Interesting to see the same story told with different tones.

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO3qn1wPYI4

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCrLjq9nseo

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
on my way out the door - but thanks.  will watch tomorrow.

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."
by poemless on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:10:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think Johan Hari covered my thoughts on Che

The myth of Che Guevara is seductive and lush. It's a story about an Argentinean rich-boy who was so shocked by poverty he became a Robin Hood fighting alongside the poor, until eventually he was murdered by the CIA. The reality of Che Guevara is very different. The facts show that he was a totalitarian with a Messiah streak, a man who openly wanted to impose Maoist tyranny on the world. At the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, he even urged the Soviet Union in a fit of fanaticism to nuke New York and bring about the end of the world.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:06:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And in full disclosure, you're also no fan of Marxism anyway.

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."
by poemless on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that's a yes.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:18:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think of Johann Hari as an informed voice on world affairs.  Here he is on Iraq.

Johann Hari, 2003

Sometimes, the only way to spread peace is at the barrel of a gun Independent, The (London) - Find Articles

Once Iraqis are certain the Americans will not back off and leave them to the mercy of Saddam, they will explain why they wanted this war. This is not idle speculation: it is already happening. In Safwan this weekend, Iraqis called out to US and British troops: "You're late. What took you so long? God help you become victorious." Another person said: "I want to say hello to Bush, to shake his hand." One woman stated: "For a long time we've been saying: 'Let them come.' Last night we were afraid, but we said: 'Never mind, as long as they get rid of him, as long as they overthrow him, no problem.' " This was reported in one of the most anti- war newspapers in Britain.

Those who still deny all this evidence will know soon enough, once the war is over, what the Iraqi people thought all along. When it emerges - as I strongly believe, based on my experience of the Iraqi exile community and the International Crisis Group's survey of opinion within Iraq - that they wanted this war, will the anti-war movement recant? Will they apologise for appropriating the voice of the Iraqi people and using it for their own ends?

Here he is in 2007

Need Iraq Suffer More If We Pull Out? - CommonDreams.org

The US troops cannot be an agent of anything positive in Iraq, after using chemical weapons in cities, after using torture routinely, after overseeing the deaths of 650,000 Iraqis. Today, 78 per cent of Iraqis say the US presence "is doing more harm than good" and that they should leave. This is hardly surprising: Jeff Englehart, formerly a US soldier in Iraq, said recently: "The general attitude was: a dead Iraqi is just another dead Iraqi."

But how do they get out without leaving behind something even more hellish? To grope for a solution, we must first be honest and clear about the Bush administration's motives.

It is currently trying to force the Iraqi parliament, as its top priority, to pass an oil law that would hand two-thirds of Iraq's oil fields to their friends and paymasters in Big Oil. Ordinary Iraqis see this new plan as crude looting of their wealth, with 63 per cent appalled in a recent poll. Yet the US is suppressing resistance: they leaned on the Ministry of the Interior to use Saddam-era laws to ban the oil worker's trade unions, which have been democratically, peacefully fighting the law.

Only massive public pressure will change this course. So what should we demand they do? Former presidential candidate George McGovern, who fought heroically against the Vietnam War, has worked on a detailed way to leave Iraq that doesn't also leave behind a holocaust. It is mapped out in his book Out of Iraq.

McGovern's plan begins with a simple, stark apology from the US, Britain and other invaders for the catastrophe we have wrought - the opposite of Bush's deranged demands for thanks. There must then be a commitment to dismantle all permanent US bases on Iraqi soil, and to allow Iraqis to own their country's oil - with royalties paid equally to every citizen, in a regular cheque, like they do in Alaska.

The US then needs to convene a regional conference, at which it pledges to pay full-whack for an international stabilisation force to police Iraq, manned exclusively by Muslim countries such as Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, and Jordan. These countries will need all sorts of financial inducements to send troops. Tough. Pay them. McGovern calculates that even at top-rate, this would cost $5.5bn - just 3 per cent of keeping the US forces there for the next two years. Once the police are fellow-Muslims, the often-murderous insurgents will be much more isolated. Al-Qa'ida's tiny presence (estimated by US generals to be fewer than 500 fighters, rendering Bush's claims they will take over the country absurd) will be even more despised. Only troops like this could have the legitimacy needed to stop a genocide.

It's not a perfect plan. People will still die in the fall-out. But it is less lethal than any other option I can see. The present course is too horrific to maintain. In Baghdad today, people have stopped eating fish from the rivers Tigris and Euphrates. The reason? So many dead bodies are being dumped there every day - and being munched by the fish - that Iraqis began to fear they would contract diseases associated with cannibalism. That's the score-card so far: to reduce Iraqis from the horror of Saddamism to physically consuming themselves. Now what was the President saying about gratitude?

My take: He's western, he's comfortably off, he rarely travels where poor people live--though he meets a lot of educated people from places where poor people live--and then he decides what he thinks, and of course he needs to earn a living--but really, he likes a bit of high-falutin' rhetoric and nevermind the bodies involved (sorta what he accuses Che of)...well, that's my take.

I'll add that I wonder (as I wonder with Tony Blair) why he can't just admit (at least to himself) that pontificating on important world affairs isn't where his skills lie.  There's this understandable need to "make things right by telling the truth, at least this time", but it's as if the lesson never gets learned: You don't understand poverty, mate!

Bernhard at moonofalabama has a piece up about this kind of thinking:

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2007/10/darfur-myanmar-.html  

I typed into scroogle "Johann Hari Iraq Mea Culpa" (actually I typed "mia culpa" but...ya know--how could he have missed the...history of american interventions?) and found this:

Johann Hari - Archive

I think in a way the left has been saying: I don't think it's a matter of troops out, or stay the course - I think there is a very simple solution: have a referendum, and just say to the Iraqi people, "Do you want the troops to stay?" Obviously that's not going to happen because the huge factor in this is that the Americans are not motivated by siding with the Iraqi people. And I never though they were. Some of the pro-war left seem to have convinced themselves that the US army is like the armed wing of Amnesty International. I always thought that was ludicrous, but what I should have put a higher premium on at the time was realizing that the fact they were doing this for deeply the wrong reasons was going to have a much bigger effect on what they did afterwards. And given they haven't supported democracy - they have actually tried to destroy it in many places, not least Venezuela in 2001 - and given that only two years before they had tried to destroy a democratic regime with the support of 77% of the Venezuelan people, was it naïve to think there would be anything like democracy in Iraq? That they would tolerate it, on top of some of the largest oil resources in the world?

This is why it's all very well to advocate a referendum but are the Americans going to abandon all that oil after investing all this? Probably not.

Or, as Mark Steel puts it in the first video clip above:

"It's a bit like these commentators who said they supported the americans going into Iraq because they thought it would help democracy, and now they've changed their minds as it's all gone wrong.  And a bit of me thinks, 'Well, it's fair enough, at least they've owned up', but another bit of me wants to put them all in a classroom and sit in front of them going:

"Come along, we've been through this enough times before; we ought to know by now:  What happens when the americans invade somewhere?  You, boy!"

"Wellafudaze--"

"COME ON, OUT WITH IT!"

"They screw everything up and make things worse, sir."

"That's right, they screw everything up AND MAKE THINGS WORSE.  Now learn it for next time."

And here's Hari's Mea Culpa:

Johann Hari - Archive

The lamest defence I could offer - one used by many supporters of the war as they slam into reverse gear - is that I still support the principle of invasion, it's just the Bush administration screwed it up. But as one anti-war friend snapped at me when I mooted this argument, "Yeah, who would ever have thought that supporting George Bush in the illegal invasion of an Arab country would go wrong?" She's right: the truth is that there was no pure Platonic ideal of The Perfect Invasion to support, no abstract idea we lent our names to. There was only Bush, with his cluster bombs, depleted uranium, IMF-ed up economic model, bogus rationale and unmistakable stench of petrol, offering his war, his way. (Expecting Tony Blair to use his influence was, it is now clear, a delusion, as he refuses to even frontally condemn the American torture camp at Guantanomo Bay).

The evidence should have been clear to me all along: the Bush administration would produce disaster. Let's look at the major mistakes-cum-crimes. Who would have thought they would unleash widespread torture, with over 10,000 people disappearing without trial into Iraq's secret prisons? Anybody who followed the record of the very same people - from Rumsfeld to Negroponte - in Central America in the 1980s. Who would have thought they would use chemical weapons? Anybody who looked up Bush's stance on chemical weapons treaties (he uses them for toilet paper) or checked Rumsfeld's record of flogging them to tyrants. Who would have thought they would impose shock therapy mass privatisation on the Iraqi economy, sending unemployment soaring to 60 percent - a guarantee of ethnic strife? Anybody who followed the record of the US towards Russia, Argentina, and East Asia. Who could have known that they would cancel all reconstruction funds, when electricity and water supplies are still below even Saddam's standards? Anybody who looked at their domestic policies.

The Bush administration was primarily motivated by a desire to secure strategic access to one of the world's major sources of oil. The 9/11 massacres by Saudi hijackers had reminded them that their favourite client-state - the one run by the torturing House of Saud - was vulnerable to an internal Islamist revolution that would snatch the oil-wells from Haliburton hands. They needed an alternative source of Middle East oil, fast. I obviously found this rationale disgusting, but I deluded myself into thinking it was possible to ride this beast to a better Iraq. Reeling from a visit to Saddam's Iraq, I knew that Iraqis didn't care why their dictator was deposed, they just wanted it done, now. As I thought of the ethnically cleansed Marsh Arabs I had met, reduced to living in a mud hut in the desert, I thought that whatever happens, however it occurs, it will be better. In that immediate rush, I - like most Iraqis - failed to see that the Bush administration's warped motives would lead to a warped occupation. A war for oil would mean that as Baghdad was looted, troops would be sent to guard the oil ministry, not the hospitals - a bleak harbinger of things to come.

But it is easy for me to repent at leisure. Just as the opponents of the war would never have faced Saddam's torture chambers, I am not hiding in my home, rocking and clutching a Kalashnikov. Millions of Iraqis are, and many thousands more did not live to see even that future because of the arguments of people like me.

Here's a fascinating analysis of his reporting my Sourcewatch:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Johann_Hari

A single quote:

Johann Hari - SourceWatch

We conducted a Lexis-Nexis search of all the articles you have written this year mentioning the words 'Iraq' or 'Iraqi'. This was by no means a scientific study, but it surely did provide strong clues to the focus and tone of your reporting. We found the following numbers of mentions for these words in your commentary on Iraq:

Cancer - 0 mentions Child/infant mortality - 0 Civilian/s - 1 (sanctions effect in 'weakening', 25.8) Depleted Uranium - 0 Disease - 0 Education - 0 Electricity - 0 Hospitals - 0 Iraqi civilian/s - 1 (killed by insurgents, 21.1) Landmines - 0 Malnutrition - 0 Poverty - 0 Schools - 0 Unexploded bombs/ordnance - 0 Unicef - 0 Water - 0

</uber rant>

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 07:27:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
great post, rg.

i saw hari on dateline london ( love that show), and he came across as several quanta brighter and faster-thinking than anyone else, witty too.

very intelligent, still too young.

i don't get 'hypocrite' from him, or flipflopper on this issue, just naivete and an account of how his perception changed.

 a bit too little culpa, perhaps, for some.

will read the links and learn more!

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 09:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry that i didn't bookmark this, so i don't know where i read it, but today i went through an interview with Felix Rodriguez, the CIA shiite who was in charge of the US presence during Che's capture.  He stated that he had great respect for the man who appeared before him with straps of leather as shoes.  He didn't want him killed (hah, because he wanted to bring him back to the US for a show trial) but he was the one who told him that Bolivian authorities had just demanded his death.  He was impressed both by Che's resignment to his fate, and his anger at having to die in captivity. Hearing the shots (in his version, who knows what really happened) he...

It doesn't matter.  I also have much respect for Che's motives, but i stand by Gandhi.  That goes as well for the Kurds in Turkey.  I still can't believe that thousands aren't laying down in the streets of amurka.  They don't want to learn the easy way, so perhaps they're not hungry enough.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:20:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm reading through a friend's thesis, and good lord - I'm seriously considering renaming it "But I digress". Stick to the freakin' topic!

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 04:16:59 PM EST
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Turkey threatens Iraq border raid
The Turkish government is seeking parliamentary approval for a possible cross-border military operation to hunt down Kurdish separatists in Iraq.


Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 05:55:12 PM EST
i'll vote for first US Prez candidate to propose we pull-out and hand over security in Iraq to future EU-member and NATO partner Turkey.

hehehehe

by paving on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 07:19:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, kids.  There's a new Odds & Ends up.  Sans pregnant soviet space cockroaches, but worth a look see nevertheless!

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."
by poemless on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:12:20 PM EST
Well, let's be honest, you're no fan of pregnant mutant soviet space cockroaches

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:17:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Monday, October 08, 2007
Ban Broke: demo report posted by lenin

As I said, we broke the ban. Apparently, they reversed their ban an hour before the demo was scheduled to begin. Tony Benn was announcing it to no particular surprise but much satisfaction when I arrived. I think this is quite important in itself. Had there been only a few dozen there, the ban would probably have remained in force and the demo would have been confined to Trafalgar Square. The turnout, though probably in the low thousands, was fantastic for a Monday afternoon. I remember when it would have been an achievement to get twelve people out at such a time. Plenty of young people and students there, and I even met one incorrigible lecturer who had got thirty students to come along. Even with all that, the demo was incredibly over-policed, and they even kept the traffic flowing round Parliament Square, which meant that the demo had to be fed through in small blocs every time the traffic stopped for a red light. How ridiculous. There were some particularly good speeches from George Galloway, Ben Griffin, Lindsey German, Mark Steel and Mark Thomas, which I filmed and will be uploaded as fast as Google Video can do its work. In the meantime, here are some pictures.

http://www.leninology.blogspot.com/



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:14:50 PM EST
And good for them. the ban was a complete embarrasment to the Govt and it was a fabulous job to call them on it.

Won't make any difference tho', nor will it change the stupid and anti-democratic nature of the bans on free speech in the UK.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 06:21:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Talking of bans on free speach

What building was closed to public access 12 years before it (oficcially) existed.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 08:50:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good that it was forced through, but by allowing it just an hour ahead they get the best of both worlds,  they get to say they didn't ban it, plus only those people who heard about it being on got to turn up, when if there had been more notice then many more would have made the effort to turn up. It's now not a big enough event for national news covourage, because so few attended.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 09:06:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Many knew about the ban but were determined to turn up anyway - including the very well-known Tony Been MP - note this bit:

I think this is quite important in itself. Had there been only a few dozen there, the ban would probably have remained in force and the demo would have been confined to Trafalgar Square. The turnout, though probably in the low thousands, was fantastic for a Monday afternoon. I remember when it would have been an achievement to get twelve people out at such a time.



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 02:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh Helen, you're such a pessimist :-) As someone once said: One thing is sure; if nobody even tries to bring about change, change won't happen. And history shows that people have brought about change, often after terrible struggles, and many of us now benefit from the results. Pessimism is a bit of a dead-end.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 02:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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