Perhaps it is true that "Yurp" will only stand up on its own two feet if it perceives the US to be so weak or distracted elsewhere that it can no longer be relied on as an ally in time of grave danger.  The logic of that would be greater defence/security cooperation in the EU as opposed to Nato.

But in the ongoing world of international relations, the main reason that Europe lacks influence has little to do with the US, and everything to do with petty rivalries within Europe and the lack of any sort of coherent or cohesive Governance at EU level.  It's time we stopped blaming others for our own impotence.  Who lets rendition flights fly through European airspace?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

US and Europe!!!!

Argghhh

thanks!!!

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

Religion doesn't happen in mainstream europe (it failed even in Poland). It is divisive as a political force and we know it is.

Wheras in the USA, it is pervasive and ever present. As a european observer I find it stupefying to see the continuous and overt display of religious observance for political advantage. To the extent that many americans don't see it; they note its absence, but they no longer seem to note its presence. I have mentioned this to americans at various times and they go "what religion ? We have separation of church and state !!"; this whilst seemingly every other politician is determined to claim jesus as their mentor.

no, I have no figures. How do you measure it ? All I can say is a qualitative that it is thankfully absent in europe and worryingly overt in the US.

keep to the Fen Causeway

However, on the whole, even in Northern Ireland religion is used as a badge of tribal identity rather than being itself the source of political policy.

The original dispute was between groups of mostly Anglican (or Presbyterian in Scotland) landowners. The Tory Party put itself forward as the party of the established church, whereas the Whigs were somewhat more responsive to religious minorities (Protestant nonconformists, that is those who did not conform to the doctrine of the established church, and to a lesser extent Catholics and Jews).

Until relatively recently preferment in the higher reaches of the Church of England was based on political patronage. If the Prime Minister cared about religious issues he might take them into account in choosing Bishops, but party politics were usually the dominant motive in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Bishops and Archbishops of the established Church of England sat in Parliament, so their political views were relevant.

During the nineteenth and twentieth centuries the established churches declined. The Anglican Church of Ireland was disestablished by Gladstone. The Anglican Church in Wales was disestablished by Lloyd George just after the First World War. The Church of Scotland had never had the Parliamentary representation the Anglican established churches had enjoyed. All that is left now, of the directly political establishment, is the Church of England.

Now that the Church of England essentially selects its own Bishops, the important restraint on religious extremism provided by the political patronage appointment of Church leaders has been largely removed. However the continuing decline in Anglican membership means that the Church is increasingly irrelevant politically, whilst making it somewhat easier for extremists to infiltrate. Its like "rotten borough" constituency Labour parties and Trotskyist entryists. The less representative of the general population an institution becomes, the easier it is for committed fanatics to take it over.

Twentieth Century Political Facts 1900-2000, attempts to estimate membership numbers. The information is of dubious quality, as different churches have different methods of estimating membership.

In 1921 the Church of England claimed about 22 million baptised members out of a population of about 35 million. In 1996 it was 25 million out of 49 million. However a more relevant figure may be those committed enough to be on parochial electoral registers - there were 3,537,000 in 1924 (140 per 1,000 adults) and 1,290,000 in 1996 (35 per 1,000 adults).

Nonconformist groups are a lot smaller. The Baptist Union claimed 366,000 members in 1900 and  202,000 in 1998. Congregational Union in 1900 had 436,000 and English Presbyterians 76,000 members. The combined United Reformed Church in 1997 had 97,000 members. The Methodists went from 794,000 in 1900 to 398,000 in 1995.

The Roman Catholic Church in Great Britain has grown, from 2,466,000 in 1900 to 4,860,000 in 1996.

There have been recent claims that the Catholics have overtaken the Anglicans, in number of active worshippers, for the first time since the Reformation.