European Tribune

your online self

by the stormy present
Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 04:55:15 AM EST

We haven't asked this in a while, so why not a little community-building on New Year's Eve?

Sometime over the last few days, afew and I had a minor exchange that involved his username and where it came from.  My question was sort of silly -- how do you pronounce it?  Although I guess online names rarely need to be pronounced out loud, for some reason it helps me to know things like that, and I'm sort of surprised I'd never asked before.

So anyway, my question is... where'd your username come from?  Some people here use their real names as their usernames, and Question Two (below the fold) might be more applicable to them.  But some of us use aliases.  So where'd they come from?  How and why did you choose it?

I'll start.  My username comes from Abraham Lincoln's 1862 State of the Union message to Congress, delivered the year after the start of the American Civil War.  (It's a very long message, and this part is right at the end.)

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.

So -- how about you?


Hmmm, and here's a more abstract question:  How does the online version of you compare to the real-world version?  This isn't Second Life, I don't think most of us have completely reinvented ourselves as some new person here, but how much is the online "me" like the offline "me"?  Hmmm.
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My answer to the second question is... uh, I dunno.  I think maybe online-me is a little smarter than offline-me.  She's also probably a bit funnier.  But otherwise, I think we're pretty much the same.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 04:57:37 AM EST
My username comes from my looks ; sometimes people think, or thought 10 years ago when I first came on the internet and took the nick for IRC (Feeling older again. Not helped by my birthday being tomorrow), that I look south american or american indian. Thus Inca, or l'Inca which became linca. I think of it in French (and thus unpronounceable in nasal-vowel-less English).

One of the advantages of a forum such as ET is that its format slows down discussion, and thus prevent me from arguing too much, too fast...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 05:22:04 AM EST
Hey!  I know in some places it's considered bad form (or bad luck?) to wish someone a happy birthday early, but I'm afraid I might be too hung over tomorrow to remember, so I'll say it now:  Happy Birthday!

My mom thought my younger sister would be a New Year's Day baby, but she missed it by a few days....

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 06:31:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bon anniversaire!

"You can't be a successful crook with a dishonest face, now, can you?" -The Fourth Doctor
by lychee (lychee9393 A yahoo D com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 06:39:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bonne Annéeversaire !

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:10:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy Birthday Linca!

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:18:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Funny -- I always thought "linca" must be some French child-pet-name version of the Chinese surname Lin.

Bon anniversaire!

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 08:29:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Einen guten Rutsch in, no wait...

Have a good slide into the New Year, no wait... into your best birthday!

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:58:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks to the stormy present, lychee, Melanchthon, LEP, DoDo and Crazy Horse !

Passez un bon réveillon !

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 02:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:11:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And thanks to you too, Fran !

Bonne Année !

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:13:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy Birthday!!!

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:42:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy Birthday!
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 10:40:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy birthday! I hope it is a good one for you.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 10:45:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Three thank to ceebs, nanne and In Wales !

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:09:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, happy birthday!  (Another ETer born within a month of winter solstice!)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:13:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And another thanks to you, too !

I wonder about the birth date statistics of ET (which have a non-astrological influence on development ; it is well known athletics caters more to those born early in the year, as they statistically have an advantage in the calendar age defined youth competition), and how they correlate with national birthdate statistics (which vary from one country to the next, and indeed within countries ; French female teachers tend to have there children at such a date that their maternity leave ends as the summer vacations begin...)

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:20:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd suggest

1) We're just more vocal about our birthdays because we're used to people being in the party mood--I said elsewhere that I can't go out for a birthday drink without finding all venues filled with tinsel etc...

That could be proved/disproved by a poll: "Which month were you born in?"

2)  For different characteristics due to "time of year", yeah I think that's interesting.  There are a lot of different factors (I think first of "When you took your first steps, was it warm and sunny, cold and snowy, blowy and wet?", all the seasonal variations--but yeah, how about the school year in England runs Sept-Aug, so Sept = older kid, Aug = younger kid for any school peer group; whereas the italian year runs (or ran) Jan-Dec, so in Italy (hey, we're both two hundred and thirty nine, right?) you'd be the oldest in your class and I'd be the youngest in the class above you, whereas in England we'd be close (almost the same birthday!) in the same grade.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:33:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(since I actually started school with the people born before rather than after me, and then skipped a grade, I never was  actually the oldest in my class, halas. I was the too young kids the girls laughed at.)

It's clear being older or younger can have a huge effect ; at the time of learning  how to read, some kids have lived 20 % longer, probably spoken 40 % longer ; and the effect of being labelled, very early, a "smart child" or "a failure" can have huge effects in the way-too-normalised system of early education... Especially since teachers talk among them, and entering the next grade kids already ave a reputation...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:46:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The story of my user's name goes back many years ago, when I was reading Giacomo Casanova's "Histoire de ma vie". There is one chapter where he mentions people having a ridiculous name and he takes the example of Philipp Schwartzerd (Schwartzerd means "Black earth"in German). Casanova then says that Philipp Schwartzerd was right to hellenize his name (in ancient Greek, "Black earth" translates into "Melanchthon"). As my name means "Black earth" in French, it amused me and, when I had to chose a username on DKos, I chosed Melanchthon...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 05:32:08 AM EST
Well, the origin of this is pretty simple: it seemed like a pretty frequent format on DailyKos (matt in nyc, Bill in Portland Maine, etc) so I just used it like this with my name and city.

As to internet personalities, my experience from meetups and YearlyKos is that poster's real personalities cannot be hidden from the forum - I was struck time and again by the profound identity between people's posts and their real life personalities. The real surprise was the physical world - looks, age, gender have all been unexpected for various persons.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 05:32:55 AM EST
The real surprise was the physical world - looks, age, gender have all been unexpected for various persons.

I have found that to be universally true.  My work often involves telephone and/or email conversations with counterparts at other utilities whom I've never met in person.   And one of my long time hobbies is amateur radio, which again involves long distance communication with relative strangers.  In both cases, the occasional real time meetup invariably involves recalibrating a mental image that is different, sometimes wildly so, from the reality.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.

by budr on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 09:39:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't use my first name, but Middletown is actually my home town, Muncie, Indiana, United States.

During the 1920s my hometown was part of the classic sociological work, the Middletown Studies.

Middletown: A Study in Modern American Culture was primarily a look at changes in a small Midwest city between 1890 and 1925, the year the study was completed.

Although the book does not name the city (population: 38,000) in question, it was later revealed to be Muncie, Indiana.

The Lynds and their assistants used the "approach of the cultural anthropologist" (see field research and social anthropology), existing documents, statistics, interviews, and surveys to accomplish this task. The stated goal of the study was describe this small urban center as a unit which consists of "interwoven trends of behavior" (p. 3). Or put in more detail,

    "to present a dynamic, functional study of the contemporary life of this specific American community in the light of trends of changing behaviour observable in it during the last thirty-five years" (p. 6).

The book is written in an entirely descriptive tone, treating the citizens of Middletown in much the same way as an anthropologist from an industrialized nation might describe a non-industrial culture.

Muncie continues to be one of the places that pollsters and reporters go when they want to do an "average American city" story.  As far as how my online self and offline self caompare, my offline self is far less vocal.  It's sort of like my inner Hulk comes out.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:43:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Two sources for my username: One, lychees are one of my favorite fruits, and two, when creating my username I had just looked at a website for a Cantonese hardcore/metal band from Hong Kong, King Lychee. I thought maybe Queen Lychee at first but didn't really feel like pointing out my gender. Plus it would have made me look like a fan of the band, and I'm just not into their music, though I wish them the best of luck.

Personality differences? Who knows.

"You can't be a successful crook with a dishonest face, now, can you?" -The Fourth Doctor

by lychee (lychee9393 A yahoo D com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 06:13:34 AM EST
My screen name is very boring; my initials. I came to the internet in the late nineties to trade stocks during the technology boom. At that time I used my real first and last names on the yahoo stock message boards. My son kept saying take a screen name but I never followed his advice. When I first started commenting on the political boards, (bilmon and kos) I took my initials. Of course, now anyone can see my real name by clicking on one of my photos and going to my picassa web album.
I think I'm freer on the internet than I am in person. Relationships are less risky on the internet and you can step away for a few minutes if you need some reflection. But I now know so many people on ET that I can't say there's a difference; life is very interesting in these times.

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:00:37 AM EST
My screen name is my first name: what else would I call myself?

My meat-world avatar doesn't have the charm even temper of my on-line one.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:03:57 AM EST
Same for me. As for my sig line, it was used on a email reflector (DVB? ITU?) by an American expat living in Geneva.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Came up with mine by stashing "Nordic" (me being from a Nordic country) and "Storm" (the first half of my last name) together.
As for offline and online - I have as much of an affinity for making silly jokes and one-liners in both "realms", much to the chagrin of...well, everyone.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:10:58 AM EST
My username comes from my initials, and dates back to a time when there were a group of us with the same first name in a house, so we all ended up with nicknames to differentiate. When I moved to Wales, I reverted to my original name for about three weeks, before someone else with my first name moved into my house, at the same time as a load of mates of mine turned up. so nearly twenty years later, everyone knows me by my username in and out of the world.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:20:13 AM EST
Am I the only one here who's more curious about your email address? :)
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 02:14:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah I was just wondering if it would be allowed by google, plus people don't forget it when I tell them it.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 02:27:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think mine is fairly obvious.  I initially set up an account using my initials and realised that didn't serve the purpose very well if I wanted to get more involved so I set up an account as In Wales.  

I suppose I see my perspective on European and political issues being largely shaped by my experience of living in Wales so it was the key aspect of my identity that tells people who I am in this context.

I think online I am on a far more equal footing than offline.  This method of communication is the easiest for me and people judge you by what you write (and how you write perhaps).  Online, my contribution is as valid and worthwhile as the next person, which is far from the case irl.  I'm the same person online but with fewer obstacles in my way.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:28:16 AM EST
Actually, I often find people's signatures more intriguing than the usernames they choose.

Mine came from my favourite book, To Kill A Mockingbird and has been my motto ever since I read it.  The book itself translates it as 'from mud to the stars' although I understand that more literally the latin means through adversity to the stars, or similar.

I think it became my motto at the time because I needed something to believe in (seeing as religion/faith or lack thereof is a hot topic at the moment!)  

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 08:41:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't it aspera rather than aspira?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 09:35:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now if you'd waited for a few hours you could have made the first PN of 2008 ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:42:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Since I made that comment at 13:35 London time, it was already 2008 in the areas whose time zone is 11h ahead.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:51:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Compounded PNing! Excellent!

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:00:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
argh! I think you may be right. How annoying and silly of me. I can't be bothered with changing it though.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:50:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is easy - in User prefs go to <diplay options> make <signature type> retroactive. <save it>, then go to your user info and change your signature. It's only one letter to edit and it's forever and past ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:05:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
* cough * what's in the past?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:13:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because it changes all previous instances of your signature and thus no-one will ever know about your misspelling, and I promise you will shall not bring it up again ;-) Well, not often, anyroad...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:43:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I checked it though!  Hmph. Just glad I didn't have it tattooed on me.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:46:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excuse me for breaking in like this, but your comment made it imperative for me to share this little (true) story.  A park ranger, or whatever you call them in Wales, told us about the tattoo in Latin on his forearm.  He and some buddies had gotten drunk and then tattoed at a parlor in Thailand on their last night before leaving a tour of duty in Korea.  His tattoo was "Forever in Wales" inscribed in Latin.  About halfway through the process, the tattoo artist was suddenly moved to make small talk, asking "where did you come from?" to which the drunken soldier replied "Korea" which is now forever on his forearm as "Forever in Korea" in Latin.

Karen in Austin

Thence comes our true nobility by grace, It was not willed us with our rank and place. Chaucer

by Wife of Bath (bakerswife13@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 04:38:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh dear.  That would annoy me so much.  My tattoos are very carefully chosen. If any were slightly off what and where I wanted them, I don't know how I'd cope!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 04:44:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would love to see your tattoos. Do they glow in the dark?

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:23:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmm, no they don't glow in the dark. Should they?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:28:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They're already made. So, they should not!

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
he's just trying to entice you into his darkroom once again isn't he ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, the naughty man.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:58:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
J'adore quand les anglaises m'appelles "naughty man."

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 10:02:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
lol

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 10:11:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't want to disclose that ceebs. But it's obvious that I'll now have to use the braille method instead of sight reading.

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 09:59:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now there's some wishfull thinking ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:04:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well quite. My tattoos are neither glow in the dark or braille.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:14:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think he'll only accept experimental evidence. you'll understand being a scientist. ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:22:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll write a paper on it and he'll just have to accept that. If he wishes to experiment then I suggest he repeat the methodology in my paper and judge for himself whether his tattoos glow in the dark or work as braille.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:32:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because of the time pressures caused by my advanced age, we'll have to ask the regulatory authorities to allow allow for "fast track" utilization before your results are confirmed by another team's laboratory experiments.

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:52:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My results don't need to be confirmed by another team's experiments. I simply write up my own experiment and findings and include the methodology so that should anyone else wish to verify the accuracy of my conclusion then they can repeat the experiment for themselves.

Neither tattoo took more than half an hour so time won't be awasting too long, LEP.  There must be tattoo parlours near that deviant digital darkroom of yours.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 12:06:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll borrow a tattoo gun for the next meetup ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:52:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ceebs. Thankfully, you have become my "intervenant" in this damned eternal quest to lure In Wales into my digital photo darkroom.

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:36:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do so hope you have a Benny Hill accent when we finally meet, ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:41:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How about Woody Allen?

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:44:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well it's second best but I'll cope.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:50:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And was it really supposed to be Forever in Wales?!
I had no idea I was so adored far and wide ;-)

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 04:45:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
LoL

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 05:13:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe whether the signature can be changed is set at the time the comment is posted, but I might be wrong.

I have changed my signature several times and I'm now about to write the history of changes by experimenting with setting it to "retroactive" again, but someone who hasn't changed their signature before could do the experiment.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:48:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah it was retroactive, look through my earlier posts on this thread, it has changed all of them.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:51:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Miracle of Modern Science! Nothing mystical about it...

OK I've had a Bloody Mary, we've eaten the scallops and now I have to prepare my special rice to go with the lamb.

See you guys and gals in 2008 o/

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:37:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are right, but it's usually per aspera ad astra which means, by hardship to the star. Success is gained through difficulty.

If you don't mind my saying so it's a very appropriate signature. In bocca al lupo for your thesis!

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:38:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently it's the motto of the state of Kansas.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 01:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And in a slightly different take, the RAF - per ardua ad astra.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 02:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My nick is my first name in lowercase. Since I adopted my old usenet nick as the name for my personal blog, I've been blogging using this name. It's not a common name even in the Netherlands, and some people online end up thinking that I'm a woman because it's similar to Anne (a name both men and women can have in Dutch, by the way).

Personality-wise, I think I'm mostly similar?

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:32:25 AM EST
Misguessing gender from ambiguous usernames is all too common, made more so by different naming conventions in different cultures and languages.  I would have bet nanne was a woman's nick.  Now I'll have to recalibrate.  ;}  And I thought for a long time that kcurie was a woman.  Funny how deeply embedded our gender identification is with our conception of ourselves and others.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 09:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You were not the only one mystified by Kcurie's gender; the same applied to me. To kcurie's delight, I'm sure.
by Nomad on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:11:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A lot of people assume I'm male when I use the shortened version of my name (Sam) and I have received a lot of post for 'Mr Sam ...' over the years.  Very few assume Sam is a female name when they are guessing.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've learnt not to make assumptions about names like Sam. Kim is another. Ceri is a very common Welsh name for both genders.  It is hard to avoid making assumptions about gender based on the way people write.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why the need for gender identification?

Gender mis-identification often happened with my previous username, "Daneel", and I haven't always bothered to correct. (I was more amazed that the name of Isaac Asimov's main robot character R. Daneel Olivaw, asexual but often viewwed as male [I'm not sure what was used of "he/she/it", if at all, in the English original], has a female ring to those unfamiliar with it.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:17:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you remember Asimov's The Robots of Dawn, R. Daneel Olivaw, like his "twin" Jander, is not asexual at all...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:33:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in the then appearance. But I remember an Asimov interview in which he wonders about the affection of his female readers for Daneel, saying h... eh, it is asexual.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:45:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...though maybe the interview I read was made not long after the publication of The Naked Sun.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:01:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Why the need for gender identification?"

Because if you are interacting with other humans in any form deeper than a form letter selling auto insurance, that's the way people operate.  Lack of gender identification seems ... odd? ... strange?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:47:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not really an answer at the "why", more a claim that "yes there is such a need". But I wonder. Normal human interaction also involves eye contact, gestures, a lot of things we do without on-line. I don't see why gender identification is different.

Maybe it's language. You can't say "he/she" in an asexual way in English. In Hungarian, it's just the opposite.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:05:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Finnish too. Thus Finno-Ugric ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:07:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fenugreek?

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Normal human interaction also involves eye contact, gestures, a lot of things we do without on-line.

Or an even weightier analogy: knowing another's age.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:12:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gender assignment is automatic when you picture someone in your mind, I would guess. I tend to attach a mental picture almost immediately when reading posts, and that means a gender gets assigned, too.

Why we choose the genders we do when creating that mental picture, I don't know. Sometimes it's based on the obvious (the genders of Jerome and Fran, for instance) or an obvious association (Nanne, I thought you were female for the exact reason you listed until I saw meetup photos; kcurie's name reminded me of Marie Curie until I saw numerous posts referring to "him"). Sometimes it's not so clear-cut-- I don't know why, but for some reason I thought In Wales was male for the first couple of weeks I was here.

"You can't be a successful crook with a dishonest face, now, can you?" -The Fourth Doctor

by lychee (lychee9393 A yahoo D com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 03:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You aren't the only one to think I'm male at first! I'm not too sure why either.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 03:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know how odd out I am, but I don't necessarily do that (same with age). And just you are an example: that you wrote having considered "Queen Lychee" downthread is the first instance that made me think of you either way. That said, I do recall it happened I mis-guessed some ET users' gender (unfortunately I don't remember any anymore, but maybe just Fran was one of them: Fran-Frank). No wait, I remember I thought someone is a thirty-something male healthcare worker (probably wrong on all accounts).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 03:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Men and women have different communication paradigms and styles.  This affects 'decoding' of the communication as most people tend to assume the Other is using their own gender communication strategies when visual clues are absent and the user name is ambiguous.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bork! Bork! Bork!
by ATinNM on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 01:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the nice part of having a false gender identification, maybe. But I don't see these different communication styles/paradigms in action so much here (any more than, say, cultural or generational differences).
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 10:51:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh, what this reminds me of is the effect of anonymising entry tests at a London university: the ratio of females among the successful suddenly passed 50%... maybe there is more than communication strategies at play.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 04:53:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You badly need to insert "tend to" into your first statement, because otherwise it's just plain false.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 04:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this another case of variance within populations being greater than variance between populations?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 05:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's one of the casualties of the WesternTM way of categorizing...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 05:22:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please elaborate.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 05:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I may be wrong but much of the way I learned to categorise was with a tree structure, best represented by the tree of life. A man is a male member of the human species of the primate genre of the mammal branch etc... Each of these distinctions being fairly exclusive.

i.e. when dividing within a group we tend to search for the overarching difference between the different parts, with an essentialist approach ; we create "muslim" and "jew" categories, despite the fact that many muslims and many jews used to share the same culture. Black and White categories - where does the north of Africa fit ? Fruit and produce - and endless debate about the status of the tomato.

Categories and nuance don't fit well together. It seems to go back to the Platonician ideal - instances are supposed to be a representation of a theoretical  and perfect idea, which represents the truth. Thus, as we build representations, we are unable to detach the instance from its ideal, and admit that different categories often overlap.


Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 05:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmm, that ties in very well with some work I've done on statistical classification and clustering and the problems with the whole theory and practice of it. Specifically with dendrograms.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 06:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please elaborate. That sounds interesting.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 07:51:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the tree of life actually has an underlying theory that explains why it would be that way (evolution involves speciation, that is branching only and not convergence) and a transversal cut across the tree represents a particular point in time.

With Ring Species, however, one has to be extra careful. But that is only a difficulty associated with a particular branching point.

Now consider a general classification problem. I give you a population and you have to figure out how many subpopulations there are in it and which subpopulation each individual belongs to. There are parametric models which have problems of their own, but a nonparametric way to do it is to calculate a distance function and then construct a tree out of it. There are bottom-up and top-down algorithms. You described a top-down algorithm. The main problem is that, unlike the case of the tree of life where the tree being represented actually follows evolutionary time in one direction, if you have a group breaking up into four subgroups because of two dichotomies, the order of breaking will make the tree look different and it may obscure the common characteristics between subbranches of different branches.

That is, the tree is the wrong kind of topology in some cases.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 08:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem being that the tree is the dominant implicit classification paradigm in the societies I know (witness the 'US is a republic, not a democracy !' as another example). That leads to trouble. (And I think I remember reading about ethnologies of societies with had very different classification paradigms, which meant they had no concept of "tree" for example...)

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 08:59:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The key issue is do you have a partition (exclusive, exhaustive classes) or don't you?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 11:39:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it sure seems French has some problem with non-exclusive or ; ou is often an implicit XOR. I think the same holds in English.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 01:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it is the case

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 05:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Coleman:

You badly need to insert "tend to" into your first statement, because otherwise it's just plain false.

All Categorical Statements are False.  8^)

Ok, I'll accept that.

The tendency is strong, however, and when broken tends to be a female adopting the male conversational mode than the other way 'round.  

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bork! Bork! Bork!

by ATinNM on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 12:43:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think gender becomes a fundamental part of our self identification and hence our relationship to others.  It is something we learn "at our mother's knee," long before we have any rational conception of what it means.  I'm not sure there is any way around it.  For good or ill, it colors everything else about us.

I remember Daneel.  I had a clear conception of "him" as a male.  I don't know if Asimov intended that, but I never doubted it.  On the other hand, I can imagine someone who hasn't read Asimov thinking otherwise.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.

by budr on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:25:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Mind influences the body and the body influences the Mind.  

Certainly some gender roles are learned but there are physiological differences as well from maintaining of body homeostasis to higher cognitive functioning that also predicate gender roles.  


Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bork! Bork! Bork!

by ATinNM on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 01:34:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My user name is the Romaji transliteration of the Katakana transcription of my Spanish name, which apparently is not an uncommon name in Japan.

No, I am not the (also Spanish) guy behind http://www.MiGeRu.com

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 07:42:24 AM EST
...our Japanese department is having a field day with your handle.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was once in Firenze for a month studying italian and one of my classmates we a Japanese who had been living in Italy for two years and spoke with a Tuscan accent. He said he had a nephew called Migeru back in Japan, whose parents were a Spanish/Japanese mixed couple.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:56:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd assumed that Migeru was your real name and that it was Spanish.  This was before I knew you were actually from Spain but weren't called Migeru.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:59:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mi ge-i ru is about as close as you can get to "Miguel". "r" and "l" are indistinguishable in Japanese which leads to a lot of misspellings and mispronunciation by Japanese.

According to my Japanese friends "Migeru" is not at all common in Japanese. In fact it's the kanji transcription of "Miguel".

The fun part is what kanji are used to transcribe the syllables of the name. You can come up with hilarious phrases. The Chinese under Mao regularly used deprecatory kanjis to transcribe evil capitalist world leaders' names. Unfortunately I don't remember any off hand. A vague memory of a US Sec of State coming off as "ugly evil man with long nose".

So, kanji-wise, Mi gei ru can come off hilarious or slightly poetic.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 01:26:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are a number of manga/anime characters whose name is from an European language, but in English editions (or already on English inscriptions in the manga/anime) was translated back with an r instead of l or vice versa. Say, the Trigun manga's Razlo (should be Lazlo), Full Metal Panic!'s Teletha "Tessa" Testarossa (should be Teresa).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 01:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Come on, give me a list of Kanji meanings of my name!

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 02:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll start with the nicest one:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

From top to bottom: Beauty Art Current (as in stream). Current(s) of beautiful art (correnti di belle arti may sound better but implies art movements whereas we're dealing with waterstream currents).

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 02:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Judging from pictures of you, this one currently doesn't apply:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

From top to bottom: Three hairs remain. Which ever way you juggle it, it's a countdown to baldness.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 02:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It reminds me of this Spanish children's song.

La bruja tiene tres pelos / Tres pelos tiene la bruja / Si no tuviera tres pelos / Ya no sería la bruja

It is a countdown song in that it's supposed to be repeated dropping one word at a time, until none of the song remains.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 02:58:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is the worst we've come up with. I'll use classic kanjis for a change:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

From top to bottom: Taste (or smell) Whale Remains. It could suggest that you make a living cutting up whale at the Tsukiji Fish Market before dawn. (And don't wash after.)

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 03:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here is an excellent resource for information about kanji and Japanese words:

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html

You can get a list of characters searched by romaji here:

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1B

Using that second page, you can search on mi, ge (or gei, if you like) and ru to come up with various combinations.

However, once you just choose a combination, if possible, get someone with native Japanese or Chinese language ability (that would not be me) to check the passability of your desired kanji combination.  Sometimes people (including myself) come up with really ridiculous-sounding/meaning character combinations (see http://www.hanzismatter.com/ and http://www.engrish.com/ to see what it looks like with the shoe on the other foot).  Actually, what passes in Chinese may not pass in Japanese, and vice-versa (although, three characters in Japanese are quite rare anyway.)  And remember, as your name will not sound the same in Chinese as in Japanese, you would only ask a Chinese for a sanity check based on the combination and order of the character meanings.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 08:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]