European Tribune

Elephant Poaching & Culling

by Nomad
Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:20:43 AM EST

While browsing the headlines this morning, I found this headline: "Price of Ivory Accelerates the Extinction of African Elephant" (my translation).

I thought that immensely interesting, because when I was volunteering in Balule Private Nature Reserve some 3.5 years ago, the common wisdom was that there were far too many elephants. Three weeks earlier I had heard the exact same in my previous volunteering in Tembe Elephant Park.

So I frowned at reading the headline and decided to do a little dig.


The BBC Website also has a recent piece, but without the inflammatory headline and tells you the actual story:

i
DNA tracks origin of seized ivory

A trail of DNA has helped investigators trace the biggest ever consignment of contraband ivory seized since 1989 to savannah elephants in Zambia. Scientists extracted DNA from 37 tusks recovered from the shipment, which was seized in Singapore in June 2002.
They compared this data against a continent-wide map showing genetic differences and similarities between African elephants.

Details appear in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal.

Aha! So I went to see whether the article is on-line, as they usually do at PNAS, and by jove! - it is: Using DNA to track the origin of the largest ivory seizure since the 1989 trade ban.

So what are those details done by the study of Wasser et al.?

According to the Beeb:

The 2002 seizure in Singapore consisted of 532 tusks packed in a 20ft container that had been shipped to the Far East from Malawi in south-east Africa. It also contained 42,000 hankos, small blocks of solid ivory used to make signature stamps, or chops, that are popular in China and Japan.

<snip>
The researchers compared genetic sequences from the tusks with those in a database of DNA sequences from African elephants whose geographic origin was known.

The results showed that the ivory came from savannah elephants in a small region of southern Africa, with Zambia as the focal point.

From the article:

The rest of the article rips into a political screed and pleads for the re-enactment of stringent law-enforcement:


The international community virtually stopped ivory poaching once (14), and it can stop it again. The enhanced law enforcement effort that concided with the 1989 ban dramatically suppressed the illegal ivory trade. However, believing that the problem was solved, western aid was largely withdrawn by 1993. Law enforcement rapidly declined in poor African countries, and poaching began to steadily increase all over again (14). A more comprehensive approach is needed this time, one that combines law enforcement with DNA analyses, education, and improved management. We have to act now, before it is too late. We hope that the results of this study will encourage such timely conservation efforts, thereby helping to curb a criminal trade that is once again imperiling elephants.

Even while I'm sympathetic to this position, I must note, from a scientific perspective, that I find it baffling to find sentences as "We have to act now" in a scientific article.

Apart from poaching because people are, you know, starving, there is a cruel irony related to the fact that ivory prices have shot up - because of the China effect, as the article notes itself.

How is there irony? Because I learned in 2003 that then and even today there are massive elephant overpopulation problems to the south of Zambia - as a direct result of successful conversation strategies. Have a search on "Elephant Population" on http://allafrica.com/ to see how many reports actually mention burgeoning elephant populations. Because Wasser is right when he says to the BBC, "Elephants are majestic animals and are not trivial to the ecosystem. They are a keystone species and taking them out significantly alters the habitat."

Right. Now take that the other way around. Since, if you let the elephants in, they will change the habitat. Dramatically. One of the greatest threats to Kruger Park (beside mass tourism) is not reduction of biosphere due to desertification by Climate Change - but deforestation generated by the forest destructive elephants. Elephants open up the terrain and prevent a savannah closing up. They are capable to tear a tree to pieces by ripping of enormous branches or push it over completely. It's an awing sight, especially because an elephants pulls it off with a perfect halcyon demeanour.

People tend to forget that, in the end, Kruger National Park is a park. It has fences. It is finite. It will not allow for migration during overpopulation. It is, in other words, managed to a certain degree. And also: this is Africa. An equivalent policy of building corridors and a pan-African environmental policy such as the current European one does not exist, to the best of my knowledge (but hell, this is only week 4 here, so I'm not that reliable yet).

So you have, say, 6000 elephants too many. Estimates are that in less than 15 years, there will be 24.000 too many. What do you do?

Because now it's time for the C-word.

In May 2005, the southern African nations (among others South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia, Zambia) came together in Victoria Falls and reached the following recommendations:


11. It is recommended that application of lethal means, specifically culling, be approved as partand parcel of a range of options for the management of elephant populations. The
implementation of culling should be informed by the application of adaptive management
principles, while also not excluding the application of and learning from other viable
management options.

12. It is recommended that other management tools such as translocation, contraception and migration corridors be applied as medium to long-term management interventions.

Pdf of report here

The world became almost literally too small. The ferocity erupting in 2005 was reported widely and organizations as Greenpeace and IFAW had a field day in depicting the African velds drenched with gore. Doomed to be an environmental contrarian, I'd like to point out my post at ET in which I previously laid out my view on why culling should become an integral component of managing the elephant over-population for Kruger here.

The inevitable seemed to have happened in the foray of elephant hugging cutesiness. Martinus van Schalkwyk, the SA Environmental Minister, grew silent and dodged the subject ever since. For the whole of 2006 I have not heard anything about the culling proposal in the press and have not been in contact with my South African contingent about this subject. Which is why this diary will need a follow-up one day, since I intend to find out...

South Africa already has a policy to trade in ivory, albeit very strict and very regulated. And here I'm thinking: why not cull, dump the ivory on the market, reduce prices and make poaching financially insolvent, while working on a grander scheme to set up corridors?

But here we are.
We have an environmentally focused scientist bemoaning the rise of poaching driven -partly- by the spike in ivory price.
And on the same continent, not even that far away, we have bulging elephant populations destroying their own habitat.
Now that alone is irony. But when I consider that a (potential?) mechanism to reduce the ivory price by government regulated ivory trade from culling practices was (most likely) snubbed - by western environmental lobby organizations - I begin to severely disconnect.

Could regulated culling reduce ivory prices? Don't know. Want to find out. Any help welcome.

Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password

Poll
You have 6000 elephants too many, what do you do?
. Sell them to private owners 0%
. Let the market decide! 0%
. Mmmm.... Elephant steak... 30%
. Operation Elephant Transplant: every continent receives 1000 elephants 60%
. I know something much better, but I'm not telling. 10%

Votes: 10
Results | Other Polls
Display:
Damn, you beat me to this.

Substantive comment upcoming.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:38:35 AM EST
Was really hoping on your view when I wrote this...
by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:49:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say that culling is probably needed, but maybe selling the ivory is a bad idea - it sustains a market.

With "legal" ivory around, it becomes easier to pass some illegal ivory obtained by poaching around.

You don't want an industry based on ivory to grow - it'll eventually need more ivory and demand will create that poaching. Given the poverty levels around elephants, even with lower prices, you'll find willing poachers.

The hard part of course is to convince poor countries of giving up on a well-needed revenue and spend some money preventing  poaching...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:39:08 AM EST
With "legal" ivory around, it becomes easier to pass some illegal ivory obtained by poaching around.

I am not sure this argument has economic merit. With strict (and enforced) certification requirements and a paper trail all the way to the source, illegal ivory would become harder to sell by poachers.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:44:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Since we're talking  about trade from Africa to China, are well-enforced strict certification requirements realistic? We haven't been able to enforce it on European Agri-business, after all...

And Africa was the land of the diamond trade, China is the land of the great IP violation.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:15:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
6000 elephants too many out of a population of how many? What is the life expectancy of these elephants, and what is the vegetative growth rate?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:48:04 AM EST
Heed the mathematicians!

Let's sample Kruger National Park from Wikipedia:
Current population (2006): ± 13.500
In 2004: 11,670 elephants (official census)

Rate of change per year: ~900

They estimate Kruger National Park (not the Greater Kruger Area) can hold some 8000 elephants.

On Reproduction:


Females (cows) reach sexual maturity at around 9-12 years of age and become pregnant for the first time, on average, around age 13. They can reproduce until ages 55-60. Females give birth at intervals of about every 5 years. An elephant's gestation (pregnancy) period lasts about 22 months (630-660 days), the longest gestation period of any mammal, after which one calf typically is born. Twins are rare.

I hope that can make you happy.

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:57:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not to make me happy, it's to estimate the scale of the long-term culling program.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:04:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Estimating the scale of the long-term culling program doesn't make you happy?
by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:39:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a necessity, not a choice.

Arithmetic doesn't make me particularly happy, no.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:41:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A google search reveals a life span of about 70 years.

Pregnancy for 22 months every 5 years for an average of 47 fertile years means on average about 1/4 of females are pregnant at any given time, and under 1/7 of them give birth on any given year.

Assume a 50/50 sex split among the population and you get a birth rate of just over 1/15 per year.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:16:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A birth rate of approximately 1/15 for a total elephant population of 11.670 gives me 778 new elephants a year. Which is slightly off compared to the back-of-the-envelope 900, but considerable enough.

Now extrapolate from 2004 to 2020...

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:44:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's within the margins of error for fertile years, lifespan and male/female ratio.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:53:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok, so we're in the right ball-park. If you remove 1000 elephants a year you'll never get to the disaster scenario of 2020.

So, what to do with 1000 elephants this year?

  • sell them to zoos or natural parks elsewhere
  • release them in the wild where there is an interest in restoring the populations
  • cull the oldest/sickest animals
  • allow recreational hunting
How much of each can you do?

And, whatever you do, it's going to cost money to deal with 1000 elephants. If you end up culling them, harvesting the ivory and selling it would cover the costs.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:57:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm still going for the option to give each continent 200 elephants and let them figure out what to do with them...

#  sell them to zoos or natural parks elsewhere

Done that. Almost all parks here are already straining or are at their limit, and as stormy writes below, elephants don't travel well.

# release them in the wild where there is an interest in restoring the populations

In the "wild"? Describe that one please... You mean outside reservation and game park fences?

# cull the oldest/sickest animals & selling the ivory

That's my diary about - now all we need is to convince IFAW and the rest of the world.

# allow recreational hunting

Already happening in Game Parks, but prohibited in SANparks - such as Kruger.

I'm at a loss, honestly.

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:21:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
# release them in the wild where there is an interest in restoring the populations

In the "wild"? Describe that one please... You mean outside reservation and game park fences?

Yes.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:28:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Though TSP says upthread that elephants sent from South Africa to Mozambique simply "walked back".

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:29:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that comment was about the elephant territorial behaviour and transplanting the elephants in the Great Limpopo area - which has open borders towards SA. I think.
by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:12:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the Kenyan model, and even they call their designated areas "game reserves". I don't know, but I don't think a fence-less game reserve will be embraced.

Practically your solution means more designated space for game reserves or to use Melanchton's analogue: a bigger apartment. The creation of game reserves is still happening, but it is often a community effort, making it a long term and only a partial solution to the current problem.

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:26:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are any Game Parks overpopulated?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In honesty, this will need a lengthy answer because of the complexities within the Private Game Reserves in SA - which I only barely understand myself. It depends on lots of things.

It also is a good opportunity to tie in the other big controversial topic which has just seen SA regulation (a first step?): canned hunting. But I don't have the time today. So I'll have to settle for the short answer.

The short answer is: not all of them are overpopulated on elephants. Here's a Wikipedia list of the National Parks (most of them regulated under SANparks) and Game Reserves under private ownership.

But not all of the private reserves will take elephants - because of private ownership, and the type of tourism you want to attract for your reserve. If you want to have tourists mountainbiking through your reserve, you're not so eager to introduce (traumatized?) elephants (or big cats or rhinoceros or... you see the point). As I understood it in 2003, the National Parks are getting quite overcrowded in elephants - with Kruger the most acute.

by Nomad on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 03:19:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Rich people love shooting big animals.

So if there are too many elephants around, invite big game hunters to shoot the elephants and demand top dollar for it.

Comparative advantage and all that.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are some basic safety issues with the idea of hunting in an area that's got lots of tourists running around in their cars....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 02:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nothing that can't be overcome with regulation. No one who hasn't got a hunting license can shoot, you need to bring local guides, you are not allowed to shoot at the tourists etc.

We have lots of people running around in our forests, shooting 200.000 elks every year. The civilian casualties are usually very small.


Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:48:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You may be underestimating the number of tourists we're talking about.  I'll have to go dig up my picture of a traffic jam that developed on a road in Kruger as a herd of water buffalo meandered across the road.  It was pretty impressive.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:59:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am sure it was.

But you need quite a lot of hunters to kill 200.000 elks every year, too. We have a higher per capita gun ownership than the US. Practically every male in the northern two thirds of the country is a hunter.

Vision is far better on the savanna than in the forest too. And it should be a lot harder to confuse an elephant than an elk with a Thai berry picker. Or tourist.

With the right regulation and some common sense, collateral damage should be very limited or non-existent.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Three problems here:
  1. Hunting in SANparks right now is prohibited. Kruger falls under SANparks. Full stop. It will need massive regulation to lift the ban and -that- I'm sure will erupt another global environmental firestorm by organisations who will threaten to stop funding if they announce plans to lift the ban. Funding which was still needed (at least in 2003). In other words: conversation practice in SA can (but not necessarily always) be hostage by the whims of western environmental groups.

  2. You don't shoot an elephant as "easily" as an elk. (Note that I'm well aware that a good shot at an antelope takes considerable hunting skill.) You will need training, you will need extensive supervision and they will charge you extraordinarily (~$10.000 or more for one elephant which is -only- the trophy fee). Shooting an elephant is only reserved for the Cheney's - the super-rich who want to. As a solution to the elephant overpopulation, I can't see how it could work.

  3. Echoing stormy's point: tourists. The only solution I can see right now is to restrict areas for hunters only. But as I see it now dealing with tourism appears the minor issue.
by Nomad on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:08:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Market it as adventure tourism.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:29:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words: conversation practice in SA can (but not necessarily always) be hostage by the whims of western environmental groups.

I can't find a pic of it, but there is a sign near my house, I think it's painted on a wall.  It says:

You Are Now Entering The Brighton Laines Conversation Area

...which I like...that someone painted it...then maybe a few days later...or months later...stood back, looked at it, frowned...then...slaps head with hand!

...but I liked the idea that it was, indeed a conversation area...too.

;)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:34:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was hoping no one would notice... I'm starting to rely too much on the spell-checker that comes with Firefox. And since conversation is a perfect English word...

Ack!

by Nomad on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:52:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Impressive may not be the word I'm looking for. Ghastly gets closer.

From Wikipedia:

by Nomad on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 03:20:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 03:32:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just make sure you don't allow Cheney to hunt there.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why not consider the overpopulated natural park as a "free-range (certified organic!) elephant farm"?

Define a band below the sustainable elephant population in the national park.

If the population exceeds the upper limit, institute a populaion control program.

If the population drops below the lower limit, stop population control.

Harvest the ivory from elephants dying of natural causes, as well as those culled. and sell it on a regulated market. The kinds of contracts traded on modern commodities markets would allow for definition and enforcement of standards preventing poached ivory from making it into the market.

Now for population control:

  • release animals in the wild in order to repopulate other countries if they so wish
  • transfer animals to zoos or other natural reserves (especially mating pairs as seeds)
  • cull the oldest or sickest animals at the vegetative growth rate
  • allow and regulate recreational hunting - for instance one is not allowed to kill juveniles, tranquilizer rounds are used and the hunted animals culled humanely, etc.
  • harvest the ivory from those animals dying in the last two cases.


"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:03:16 AM EST
Oh, another culling measure:
* introduce natural predators for Elephants (i.e., lions) into the reserve

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:05:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Man is the elephant's only natural predator.  There are plenty of lions in Kruger, but lions don't generally hunt elephants... unless they're crazy lions....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:10:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wikipedia says "humans and, occasionally, lions".

Can hungry lions hunt old or sick elephants, or juveniles?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:19:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
amazing. And now it has been observed that dolphins can pass on new techniques to a whole population - who knows what would've happened with the lions if there hadn't been fences...
by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:52:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Picking out the weak, doing enough damage to stop it, relying on huge numbers to do the job and then a slow, inefficient kill? Sounds almost human.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:58:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh sure you can draw up nice culling programs, with the help of statisticians, tracability, and other wonderfully modern tools.

But :

The air explodes with the sound of high-powered rifles and the startled infant watches his family fall to the ground, the image seared into his memory. He and other orphans are then transported to distant locales to start new lives. Ten years later, the teenaged orphans begin a killing rampage, leaving more than a hundred victims.

A scene describing post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) in Kosovo or Rwanda? The similarities are striking - but here, the teenagers are young elephants and the victims, rhinoceroses. In the past, animal studies have been used to make inferences about human behavior. Now, studies of human PTSD can be instructive in understanding how violence also affects elephant culture.

...

Elephant sociality is both strength and a weakness. As with humans, an intact, functioning social order helps buffer trauma. But as human populations increase, more elephants are likely to live in environments characterized by severe anthropogenic disturbance. Current methods for conserving both wild and captive elephant populations fail to preserve elephant social systems.

by balbuz on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:41:00 AM EST
Link to source?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:43:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, I hit the Post button too soon. Article here.

Google for BRADSHAW and ELEPHANT BREAKDOWN : The elephant societies are breaking up under the stress.

by balbuz on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:44:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So really you need to take out entire herds rather than thinning out all the herds?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:46:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
NY Times :
By CHARLES SIEBERT
Published: October 8, 2006
...

In recent years, however, those [human-elephant] relations have become markedly more bellicose. Just two days before I arrived, a woman was killed by an elephant in Kazinga, a fishing village nearby. Two months earlier, a man was fatally gored by a young male elephant at the northern edge of the park, near the village of Katwe. African elephants use their long tusks to forage through dense jungle brush. They've also been known to wield them, however, with the ceremonious flash and precision of gladiators, pinning down a victim with one knee in order to deliver the decisive thrust. Okello told me that a young Indian tourist was killed in this fashion two years ago in Murchison Falls National Park, north of where we were.

These were not isolated incidents. All across Africa, India and parts of Southeast Asia, from within and around whatever patches and corridors of their natural habitat remain, elephants have been striking out, destroying villages and crops, attacking and killing human beings. In fact, these attacks have become so commonplace that a new statistical category, known as Human-Elephant Conflict, or H.E.C., was created by elephant researchers in the mid-1990's to monitor the problem. In the Indian state of Jharkhand near the western border of Bangladesh, 300 people were killed by elephants between 2000 and 2004. In the past 12 years, elephants have killed 605 people in Assam, a state in northeastern India, 239 of them since 2001; 265 elephants have died in that same period, the majority of them as a result of retaliation by angry villagers, who have used everything from poison-tipped arrows to laced food to exact their revenge. In Africa, reports of human-elephant conflicts appear almost daily, from Zambia to Tanzania, from Uganda to Sierra Leone, where 300 villagers evacuated their homes last year because of unprovoked elephant attacks.

Still, it is not only the increasing number of these incidents that is causing alarm but also the singular perversity -- for want of a less anthropocentric term -- of recent elephant aggression. Since the early 1990's, for example, young male elephants in Pilanesberg National Park and the Hluhluwe-Umfolozi Game Reserve in South Africa have been raping and killing rhinoceroses; this abnormal behavior, according to a 2001 study in the journal Pachyderm, has been reported in ``a number of reserves'' in the region. In July of last year, officials in Pilanesberg shot three young male elephants who were responsible for the killings of 63 rhinos, as well as attacks on people in safari vehicles. In Addo Elephant National Park, also in South Africa, up to 90 percent of male elephant deaths are now attributable to other male elephants, compared with a rate of 6 percent in more stable elephant communities.

In a coming book on this phenomenon, Gay Bradshaw, a psychologist at the environmental-sciences program at Oregon State University, notes that in India, where the elephant has long been regarded as a deity, a recent headline in a leading newspaper warned, ``To Avoid Confrontation, Don't Worship Elephants.'' ``Everybody pretty much agrees that the relationship between elephants and people has dramatically changed,'' Bradshaw told me recently. ``What we are seeing today is extraordinary. Where for centuries humans and elephants lived in relatively peaceful coexistence, there is now hostility and violence. Now, I use the term `violence' because of the intentionality associated with it, both in the aggression of humans and, at times, the recently observed behavior of elephants.''

For a number of biologists and ethologists who have spent their careers studying elephant behavior, the attacks have become so abnormal in both number and kind that they can no longer be attributed entirely to the customary factors. Typically, elephant researchers have cited, as a cause of aggression, the high levels of testosterone in newly matured male elephants or the competition for land and resources between elephants and humans. But in ``Elephant Breakdown,'' a 2005 essay in the journal Nature, Bradshaw and several colleagues argued that today's elephant populations are suffering from a form of chronic stress, a kind of species-wide trauma. Decades of poaching and culling and habitat loss, they claim, have so disrupted the intricate web of familial and societal relations by which young elephants have traditionally been raised in the wild, and by which established elephant herds are governed, that what we are now witnessing is nothing less than a precipitous collapse of elephant culture.

...

Please edit if this quote is too long. I don't know the rules.

by balbuz on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:53:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So, what? The elephants have figured out what's going on and are fighting back?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:02:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, richardk gave me a 4 for suggesting elephants understand cause and effect and moral reasoning.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:14:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
RichardK gave me a 2 for :
[] Being sympathetic towards the elephants
[] Quoting a scientific article
[] Raising his blood pressure

New User Guide :
2 should be used for comments that are borderline, or ambiguous, or unnecessarily aggressive in their tone even if they make valid points.

by balbuz on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:25:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What is a better bet: is it that elephants went this much "perverse" some times before, or is it an absolutely new fashion?

Here is my speculative model: animals are capable of numerous modes of behaviour, because they need to survive diverse individual and collective circumstances. Ancestors of present-day species "have seen it all": tough times, catastrophic times, mad times, quiet times, good times, overabundance times, invador competitors or predators, synergetic buddies - they had to survive each of that. In particular, they have been very violent, or very greedy, like us today. But that was not necessary for the survival, apparently. Or moreover, a more sure way to keep good times going was to switch off aggression and greed. (Who knows, evolution might have came up with solutions even against follies of newly successful species,  foolish "discoverers" of unbounded growth. Humanity might not have registered everything yet.)

Within this model, the elephants might have indeed went into an ancient "mad" mode, out of recognisable stress or something. Conceivably, strain signals might multiply across species...

by das monde on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way, have you read about mysteriously dissapearing bees? That is not a joke: bees in the US are just dissapearing, agricultural industries may suffer dearly. They might even be contributing to the current stock market turmoil. Isn't this a way to bring our consumerist civilisation down?!
by das monde on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:55:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One problem: "A flood of imported honey from China and Argentina has depressed honey prices and put more pressure on beekeepers to take to the road in search of pollination contracts. Beekeepers are trucking tens of billions of bees around the country every year."


"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:06:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of the considered difficulties and possible reasons, one aspect is missing: genetically modified crops. Were they good for bees? On the other hand, how is GM industry is affected?
by das monde on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:31:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I fail to see the connection with consumerism, though.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dennis van Engelsdorp, a bee specialist with the state of Pennsylvania who is part of the team studying the bee colony collapses, said the "strong immune suppression" investigators have observed "could be the AIDS of the bee industry," making bees more susceptible to other diseases that eventually kill them off.
Unexplained immune suppression...

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:42:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To give bees energy while they are pollinating, beekeepers now feed them protein supplements and a liquid mix of sucrose and corn syrup carried in tanker-sized trucks costing $12,000 per load.
Great, now we're feeding bees the same corn syrup crap that is giving children diabetes.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I wonder if dealing with monocultures is bad for bees. Probably.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:46:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
OT: Hey, colman, I sent you a couple of e-mails about the ES site...

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:49:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I saw them ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:51:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's ingenuity of the 21st century.
by das monde on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:55:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you mean that their disappearance is not linked to herbicides ????
We seem to have some other problems with a bee-killer, the "Vespa Velutina" hornet, imported species!

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:24:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
we are at war with them.  

Guess they've decided to fight back.  

by Gaianne on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh no, not at all. If we were they would all be dead by now.

It's more like in the Matrix, except we are the machines.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:54:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I haven't written about my astonishment of the elephant's social structure which once again should reduce any moral arrogance of humans as a superior species.

But I'll have to ask you: what do you think is the solution to increasing overpopulation within reserves?

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:56:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we should really stop trying to pretend animals don't have culture, religion be damned.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:59:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that we should dump the bizarro-world supposed seperation between other animals and humans as different in kind at all. It's at the core of a lot of our problems, along with the humans vs. nature fallacy.

Where'd that one come from, anyway?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:01:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where'd that one come from, anyway?

From the religions of the book, at least in The West™.

Have you read The Ape and the Suchi Master?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:03:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ack, sushi.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:04:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup.

It's older than the Abhramaic religions though, isn't it? And rather more widespread. And tied up with the bizarre attitudes to our animal functions.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:05:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Abrahamic religions are pretty old (nearly 4000 years?), and they are nearly unique [aren't they?] in their lack (fear, contempt, ...?) of animal worship.

The whole Hindu matrix (including Buddhism) has an entirely different relationship to animals.

I don't know enough about Confucianism and Taoism. Does confucianism have more of a human focus and tao more of a nature focus?

Shinto is full of nature spirits, as are other animist religions.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:11:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Really? So according to you there's no meaningful seperation between human benigs and animals? So according to you animals have complex language? And symbolic reasoning? And reflective moral behaviour? What you say is not merely absurd nonsense, it is not only entirely ludicrous, it is anti-human to boot. You are reducing the status of human beings to mere animals. Either that or you are demonstrating a dangerous propensity for hallucinating human behaviour in anything warm-blooded with big eyes. I hope for your sake you're not an outdoor type or you'll find yourself gored to death as you try to hug the cute fuzzy rhinoceros.
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 09:56:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh dear, did I bruise your delicate little ego? I'm afraid you're not as special as you think you are, little, hairless, half-blind, half-deaf ape. It's not clear, for instance, that you exhibit reflective moral behaviour in any sense that most people here would recognise.

No, there is no difference in kind between humans and other animals. There are clear differences in degree though: humans are really good at a whole lot of stuff other animals don't do nearly as well.

We're really bad at flying or swimming though. And figuring out how to use rating systems sensibly, apparently.

Human beings are animals. Denying that indicates that you have absolutely no clue how the universe works and that everything else you say can be discounted as nonsense.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:02:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For a misanthrope to accuse anyone else of being anti-human is amusing.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:07:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Unlike actual misanthropes, I don't hate all of the human species, just 90% of its members. More importantly, I don't hate humans for the crime of being human as the greens do. I hate those humans who are less than human. Those who fail to demonstrate the quintessentially human qualities of symbolic reasoning and moral reasoning, or empathy and rationalism.
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 09:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You personally demonstrate symbolic, moral and rational thought, but empathy? So I suppose you're 75% human.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:15:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well Migeru, you're definitely not demonstrating much rational thought. Otherwise you'd distinguish between empathy and sympathy.

Empathy is the ability to project oneself into the thoughts, feelings and situation of someone half a world away, millenia in the past, or centuries in the future. Empathy is not liking people or being polite, nice or accepting. Empathy means you understand people. Naturally, understanding people makes it that much easier to have contempt for them.

And hey, here's a novel idea, why don't we can the games of insulting ones-upmanship? I don't know enough about you to hate you and you still don't know the barest sliver of a fragment about me. The only things you can know for certain is that I'm left anti-authoritarian and that the complete alien nature of my value system greatly disturbs you.

by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:43:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're a totalitarian left anti-authoritarian who spends his time keeping a running tally of reasons to hate other people.

Here's a novel idea for you: how about you stop insulting people here, since at least they're giving you the courtesy of listening to you?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:47:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well in that case you can do me the courtesy of ignoring me. Seriously. And keep in mind that even if I reply to you in public, this doesn't imply I'm addressing you. Good bye Migeru.
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:09:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In that case you can do me the courtesy of not replying to me in public.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:21:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suggest you use understanding people makes it that much easier to have contempt for them as your signature. In that way, people will have an easier time having contempt for you if, like you, that's their natural inclination.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:53:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm left anti-authoritarian

after what catastrophe?

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can't hug a rhinoceros anyway: it's culturally unacceptable to them. You have to kiss them on the cheek. But only once.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:07:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Your abuse of the ratings system in this thread has been spectacular. For the record, a 2 or a 1 should not be used to convey disagreement, and even less as a form of petty retaliation. As a result of your abuse:

  • your ratings have been wiped;

  • your capacity to rate comments has been removed. This will last for one week from today. If you again abuse the ratings system after your capacity to rate is re-established, you will lose it for good.

One of your comments has disappeared because of the number of zero-ratings it attracted. You should be aware that outrageous comments can also be purely and simply deleted by site administration. This community has never gone in much for police methods, because there's generally a good atmosphere and users show respect for one another. No one has ever been banned. There can, however, be a first time.

This is a formal warning: if you go on posting comments that it is impossible for the community to leave on the record:

  • your account will be suspended for a week;

  • if, after re-establishment, you persist, your account will be closed.

There will be no discussion of this ruling, and it will be applied without fail.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:06:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I used the rating system in a very consistent manner, with 1 to indicate trollish insults exclusively and 2 to indicate spectacularly irrational comments. There was no abuse on my part. And if I'm going to be mobbed in this manner, what makes you think I give a damn about this community?

By the way, I love how fast police action has broken out in this supposedly anti-authoritarianism community. It's a beautiful example of group-think in action. Doesn't do a thing for your own credibility but then again we can't all win. So I think I'll stay true to my dissident principles and you'll lose all of your own credentials.

by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:23:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think you give a damn about this community. What makes you think any of us care about that?

You don't like it here, you know what you can do.

End of discussion.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:29:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't like it here, you know what you can do.

In his case, that's probably stay and be a pain until you ban him so he can add the community to his hate list.

He's like those London yobs who take pride in their ASBOs. The length of his hate list is his personal measure of accomplishment.

But, like with the ASBOs, by disciplining him you're making his day.

Don't feed the troll.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:35:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a helpful comment, Mig. You grumpy old man.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:39:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Forewarned is forearmed.

How does a grumpy young man like me get to as be happy in his middle-age as you are, afew?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:41:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:45:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll?

and politics...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:45:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I really don't give a damn about "community". Not just this one but any community. I give a damn about knowledge and ideas and justice. There's a surprisingly high density of those things on eurotrib. Even coming from utter assholes such as yourself. By the way, it's the second time you've declared End of Discussion. Don't you get tired of acting like a particularly immature child?
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:40:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Richard. The "high density of knowledge and ideas and justice" which you kindly notice on eurotrib comes in good part from the atmosphere of respect and tolerance we have for one another. It's not a weakness, it's a strength.

It is possible to disagree vigorously with others here without needing to treat them with contempt or insults. Just bring out your facts and arguments, if things are so obvious to you, and enlighten us. We actually listen, you know.

I personally don't mind so much your hostile comments on their own, because the only person they shed a poor light on is you (on your personality and manners, if not always on your graps of facts), but the fact is that the disrupt threads and lower the "high density" you referred to above.

Thus, if you cannot abide by the standards of this place, you WILL be banned. You'll still be able to read us an enjoy our quality content, but we won't have to deal with your needlessly disruptive manners. Do you really think you contribute to the "high density of knowledge and ideas and justice" when you insult just about everybody here?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:54:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One of the surprising aspects of ET's contributors is how almost all of them possess these relatively rare character traits of having a very wide knowledge, being capable of admitting being wrong or having learned something new, having an endless curiosity, all the while being kind to one another.

This results in an incredibly high signal-to-noise ratio.

Richardk obviously doesn't possess any of those traits, and as I noted a while ago, we can expect more of the same from him. Some people just can't adjust, and he won't, he can't help it.

by balbuz on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 06:16:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Group-hug for richardk!

Could a resident psychologist get meta on us all and explain about how behaviour is mirrored and then re-mirrored so the tone reflects and magnifies?

I suggest the following:

a) Ignore a richardk post.  Never reply to it.  DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.  As balbuz writes, he has done this elsewhere, it is his normal online behaviour.  Asking him to change won't work.  

b) Ignore a richardk TROLL post.  Once he gets...richardk-I-smell-evil-I-love-all-humans-except-for-the-90%-I-HATE...that's it, conversation over.  No comeback.  Bye bye ta ta.  And of course troll-rate his sudden racist outbursts.

c)  Be very CAPS LOCK ABUSIVE at him while also super-troll rating his posts (that annoy you.)  I tried that, I was hoping the whole mess would be super-troll rated (take it outside!)...and then...everyone can have fun being violently abusive with words and pics...  The "Stormy Catharsis" as it's known...heavy on the humour!

"Your farts smell of stale cheese and ugly beetles thrive in your armpit hair!"

d)  Become the ET policeman...da pigs!  Find some ET law he has violated and punish him.

I think a)-c) would be effective enough.  And his ratings...heh...ratings tell you about the rater as well as the comment...  I have received a richardk "1"--heh...I was a tad abusive once upon a time...

But never again, I promised The Stormy Present!

(She theatened me with a bloody axe...tork about "the right way to do things"...

...from me richardk will only ever receive a "4" or a "0"...but his comments...we can all leave them hanging if we so wish...no ratings...no replies...non sequiturs...and zero rating for the racist ones...

Well, as they say, your mileage may vary...depending on your time, transport medium, length of hair and, er, wind factors....cough cough...confused now...

Ah yes, I remember:



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 07:11:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course I don't have a solution, Nomad. I am not a specialist, and I am not in charge, and I am from a country where a hunter managed to kill a couple of years ago the very last indigenous bear.

Let's just never forget that animal societies are far more complex than what they seem, that was my only point.

by balbuz on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:02:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With your astonishment you've revealed your complete lack of understanding of what makes humans a superior species.
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 09:52:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, some of us are trying for the superior species certificate, but we have these "humans" who just won't pull their weight ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:04:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Incidentially, what metric are you using for "superior"?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:05:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Answered elsewhere in these comments.
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 08:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What, our ability to destroy our own social structures in the name of progress?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:09:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Social structures like ritual child sacrifice, cannibalism, ritual mutilation, child sexual slavery, infanticide, and those aren't even the bizarre ones. Yes, I would say that destroying all of these social structures was done in the name of, and has achieved, progress. There's a lesson in there, don't try to defend something you don't understand! You'll only end up defending the indefensible.
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 08:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I'm talking about valuable community structures in urban civilisations being destroyed as we speak in the name of economic efficiency.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 04:14:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because of course market fundamentalism is the be-all and end-all of human industrial civilization. No wait, of civilization itself. In fact, of human society itself.

Because psychopathy has never existed in human history prior to the 20th century. And certainly it exists nowhere in the animal world, right? I mean, that's why chimps eat furry little mammals alive, because they aren't psychopathic.

Because the 21st century, or perhaps the modern era, is uniquely destructive in human history. And uniquely destructive in the animal kingdom since how did that go again? Oh yeah, animals don't make war, war is the unique province of man.

The only thing you manage to do is look like a grumpy old man yelling at the kids to get off your lawn and bemoaning what's become of the world today. Someone who hasn't the slightest shred of a clue about anything in the natural world and is unable to put his own era into a greater perspective.

Next time, try not to say something so colossally stupid that every single meaningful interpretation of it is stupid. And if you do, for goodness' sake, don't prove it!

by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 05:05:12 AM EST
[