i have seen tons of Marrocan/Tunisian/Algerian working, very often at management level, but NONE son/daughter of immigrant.

The HALDE, under the presidency of Louis Schweitzer, is doing a very useful job. It has succeeded in putting this problem on the agenda, whereas it was until recently paid lip service even by the left.

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

All of the people who worked in the kitchen were Sri Lankan or North African, all of the waiters, bar staff etc i.e. the staff visible to customers were white Europeans or white French.

The bar was on Boulevard St Germain and was a pretty relaxed place but from the bar I often observed people coming in to apply for jobs and I was shocked when I realised that anyone who wasn't white was sent down to the kitchen to apply there WITHOUT EXCEPTION, even if they were applying for say a waiting job, and even though their French was much much better than, say, mine. Of course the front of house jobs were the jobs with access to tips and promotion.

As ever the anti-discrimination laws are presumably there but they need to be enforced with big, big fines for employers who breach them (not much chance with Sarko I imagine). Does the French constitution prevent positive discrimination or other affirmative action measures? Perhaps employers could be given a tax reduction if they hire a certain proportion of foreign-born or non-white staff.

Another thing, when I was working in the bar it was after the introduction of the 35 hour week but I was working 45-50 hours, what gives? Are restaurant and hospitality staff excluded from the 35 hour week? If so is this one of Sergo's planned extensions? Because these are the people (especially in kitchens) who need it more than anyone else.

Unemployment rates immigrants in metropolitan France by sex and age for 2005, in %

	Total	by
		25 - 39 yrs	40 - 49 yrs	50 years and older
Active male immigrants	15	17	14	14
Active male non-immigrants	8	9	5	6
Active male total	9	9	6	7
Active female immigrants	22	28	18	16
Active female non-immigrants	10	11	7	6
Active female total	11	12	8	7
Total active immigrant population	18	21	16	15
Total active non-immigrant population	9	10	6	6
Total active population	10	11	7	7

Note : results by yearly average
Domain : Metropolitan France, individuals 15 years and older.

Source : Insee, enquête Emploi de 2005.

COMMENTS

Revision of results : following the 2005 census, population estimates by the INSEE made from the annual statistics of the civil state (?) and taking into account the results of the census were revised uppwards for the entire period of 2000-2005, the previous census survey dating from 2004. The number of works measured in labor surveys were revised upwards for these three years, the rates remaining virtually unchanged.
Caution : the lower education level of immigrants is not enough to explain their greater exposure to unemployment: at any given age of studies finished, they remain more often unemployed than others. If one takes into account not only education level, but also age, sex and previous socio-professional category, immigrants are still the most likely to be unemployed.

[Terrible translation, sorry: Please see source page for the original French.]

i.e. the children of two foreign-born parents end up doing pretty much te smae things as children of Frenc-born parents, despite the stark differences between the professions of their fathers:

Fathers were largely blue collar workers
The children are all over the place, and almost as many (in proportion) of the children of immigrants have white collar/managerial/independent positions as children of natives.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

Taken from the South Wales Echo

The poverty rate among ethnic minority groups in Britain is twice as much as for white people, claims new research by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. People in some minority ethnic communities are being overlooked for jobs and are being paid lower wages, despite improvements in education and qualifications, the study found.

And the press release from the Joesph Rowntree website can be found here

only 20% of Bangladeshis, 30% of Pakistanis and 40% of Black Africans of working age are in full time work (compared to over 50% of white British people of working age);

even with a degree, Pakistani and Bangladeshi men are less likely to be employed than someone white with the same qualifications;

despite a rapid growth in Pakistani and Bangladeshi women going to university, they suffer high unemployment and are much less likely than Indian or white British women to be in professional or managerial jobs;

the problem is not confined to first generation immigrants: British born people from minority ethnic backgrounds, especially Indian, Black, Pakistani and Bangladeshi groups are less likely to get jobs than their white equivalents

I wonder very much if it is just a race issue (as in racial discrimination) or if it is very much as class issue too, as others have discussed in the thread.

I think the class separation to the detriment of black people and ethnic minorities (in the UK) arose from selective immigration in the post war period, defined within immigration policies at the time - that were aimed at bringing people into the UK to fill jobs that we didn't have the capacity to do.  So black people were allowed into the UK on restricted terms, not really having the same rights and status as a citizen as British born white people.

Resulting from that, black people ended up in certain types of jobs, earning less, having restricted access to welfare services and so on, making black people more likely to be poorer or end up in poverty.

That class/poverty trap gets passed on through generations, whether black or white.  Clearly there is still a race issue where well qualified black people still aren't getting a look in when it comes to employment.

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