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Open Thread - Monday

by whataboutbob
Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 12:25:07 PM EST

Max Oertli's Fountain in St. Gallen

Open thread...

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Open Thread - Monday | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Open Thread - Monday (4.00 / 5)

Max and his wife Margrette are friends of ours, and they are both fantastic artists!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 12:26:39 PM EST

Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 7)

The Irish enter into the contest for reactionary bullshit:

A 17-year-old girl who is four months pregnant and whose child cannot survive outside the womb has gone to the High Court to challenge a decision by the Health Service Executive to stop her leaving the State for an abortion.
The girl is in the care of the HSE and is challenging its decision to contact gardaí and not to let her travel for the abortion unless she presented as a suicide risk.
The girl, known only as Miss D, is from the Leinster area.
She found out a week ago that her baby has a condition called anencephaly, which means the baby's brain is not developing properly.
The condition means the child will live a very short time, if at all, after it is born.
After hearing this news, the girl made a decision to travel to the UK for a termination but the HSE asked gardaí not to permit her to leave the jurisdiction.
(RTÉ)

I rather imagine there will be political pressure to sort this out as quickly as possible, but if the HSE fear falling foul of the ban on abortion in some way that might not help. This isn't the discussion the governing political parties will want coming into the election.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 01:49:55 PM EST

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 3)

That is appalling. Absolutely appalling.

Which, if any, of the Irish political parties supports modifying and/or rescinding the ban? Is the issue even on the table?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 01:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 2)

Off the top of my head, Labour and the Socialist Party. Not sure about the PDs. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, the two main parties, would rather it all just went away as far as I know.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 02:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 2)

It's not really on the table at the moment, though this is the sort of thing that could put it there. The problem is getting enough people out to vote in favour of legalising abortion - it would need to be a referendum.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 02:57:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 2)

but the HSE asked gardaí not to permit her to leave the jurisdiction.

What does this mean, and how will it be enforced? Do they have her in custody? Could she sneak out?

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 2)

You don't get stuff like that in Poland. Refusing to permit (legal) abortions even when allowed by the very restrictive law, prosecutions for abortions (pretty much only when something goes badly wrong and the woman ends up either did or in the emergency room), but I've never heard of anybody being put into custody to prevent them from going abroad to get an abortion.

by MarekNYC on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 2)

She's a minor under the care of the health authority, so legally she can't travel anywhere without their permission and they don't feel they can give permission for her to travel for an abortion without her being suicidal.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 02:29:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 3)

Ireland to Miss D: we'd rather restrain you and drive you to the brink of suicide than allow you to abort a brainless fetus.

I love the smell of family values in the morning.

Bush is a symptom, not the disease.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 05:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 3)

That's what happens when the anti-abortion church crowd decide that their last gasp of power will be inserting an ill-thought out abortion ban in the fucking Constitution. We've had some ludicrous number of referendums on details of the ban since and this smells like the start of a new one. You'd never get the ban inserted now, but we can't get rid of it either because that requires motivating people to come out and vote for abortion. It'll be another ten years before that can be done, I suspect.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 05:44:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 3)

She's not in custody:

The girl wants the court to allow her bring a legal action to prevent the HSE restraining her leaving the country for an abortion unless she presented as a suicide risk. Miss D says she was told by the HSE that it had contacted the gardaí to request that she not be permitted to leave the State and she wants the court to direct the HSE to advise the gardaí that it agrees to her travelling to the UK.
(Irish Times)

In practice, all she needs to do is get in a car, head across the border to the North and travel from there to the UK. I can't see that the cops could catch her. However, that's pretty fucked up and would involve someone else in what would be legally considered child abduction ...

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 02:32:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 7)

Ireland to Miss D: your baby will be born with no brain, but we'd rather you spent the next 5 months pregnant and went through labour than have an abortion. We can't let teenage sex go unpunished.

All hail Europe's Christian roots!

And this is nothing compared with what goes on in Malta.

Bush is a symptom, not the disease.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And this is nothing (4.00 / 4)

I have decided to use the wonderful phrase "And this is nothing compared with what goes on in Malta" as my new clincher for any argument. It carries such finality.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:39:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And this is nothing (4.00 / 5)

For instance:

The reverse-delete algorithm in graph theory used to obtain a minimum spanning tree from a given connected, edge-weighed graph. If the graph is disconnected, this algorithm will find a minimum spanning tree for each disconnected part of the graph. The set of these minimum spanning trees is called a minimum spanning forest, which consists of every vertex in the graph.

And this is nothing compared with what goes on in Malta

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And this is nothing (4.00 / 4)

Or:

Mead also had an exceptionally close relationship with Ruth Benedict. Mead's daughter Catherine, in her memoir of her parents 'With a Daughter's Eye', implies that the relationship between Benedict and Mead may have contained an erotic element (see also Lapsley 1999). While Margaret Mead never identified herself as lesbian, the details of her relationship with Benedict have led others to identify her thus; in her writings she proposed that it is to be expected that individuals' sexual orientation may change throughout their lives.

And this is nothing compared with what goes on in Malta

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:47:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope (4.00 / 2)

you are beginning to see the rhetorical possibilties. There does indeed seem to be a 5th type of discourse interchange, and that is absurdity.

Absurdity is a refusal to accept logic. But it has a very strict rhetorical purpose: to cause the brain of the recipient to jump out of the stuck groove that they are in, in the hope of reframing the argument in favour of the sender.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope (4.00 / 5)

And this is nothing compared to what goes on in Malta.

Bush is a symptom, not the disease.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 06:36:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To the Rescue of Logic (4.00 / 2)

The use of addition in:
G -> H
G -> (H ^ J)
is called "improper" because the letter that is added is not added to the whole line. It turns out, however, that even though the addition rule is not correctly applied, the inference is still valid. Hence, this inference is not called "invalid," as the others are. As for the last example, a DeMorgans Rule will be presented that will allow us to remove parentheses preceeded by negation signs. But even after the parentheses have been removed, the inference remains valid.

And this is nothing compared to what goes on in Malta.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 08:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Greetings from Absurdistan n/t (none / 1)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 03:59:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And this is nothing (4.00 / 5)

Clearly, what goes on in Malta deserves further scrutiny, since it seems to produce things like this:

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And this is nothing (4.00 / 2)

Stormy, I am not sure whether we should be having this light-hearted but deadly serious picnic in the middle of a discussion about abortion. But Malta certainly deserves our extended attention.

BTW Do you know how to make A Maltese Cross?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:58:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And this is nothing (4.00 / 3)

Criticize Malta's regressive abortion law?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:59:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And this is nothing (4.00 / 2)

You're way ahead of me. Smart with it.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 06:01:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (none / 1)

I'm stealing it for my sig line!

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 05:32:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 5)

On the subject of abortions...I was told today about a 20 year old girl who has just discovered she is pregnant. The person she told said she should probably have an abortion as she is too young to have a baby...
She said she wants to have the baby.
She went home ('down country') about a week ago to tell her parents...one parent told her there was no choice in the matter...she must have an abortion...no ifs or buts, end of story...and they have made an appointment with a UK clinic/hospital for their daughter to travel to the UK next weekend to have the abortion...no pre-counselling...
The other parent said they didn't care what she does.
She will meet the parish priest before she heads to the UK.
Since she returned to Dublin from 'home' she has made an appointment to see counsellors...perhaps she will get advice that will help her make her own decision.
I feel very sorry for that girl...I don't know who she is and I have no idea what being pregnant is like...but I do know that if she goes ahead with the abortion without talking to someone who has answers to all her unanswered questions this decision will come back to haunt her. It needs to be HER decision what happens...not her parents...or colleagues...or the local parish priest.
I felt sickened when I heard about all the 'advice' she has been given.
...and then I came up here (sorry...I'm in the attic) and read this thread.

Ireland...the land that time forgot...

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde

by Sam on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (4.00 / 5)

Oh...and the bit I forgot...21 years ago her parents were supposedly 'forced' to get married when her mother discovered she herself was pregnant. They have since split up. This is where the 'orders' are coming from...
Thou shalt not do what we did...thy life will be the same as ours...

<AAAGGGHHH!!!>

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde

by Sam on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just in case the Poles were feeling put upon (none / 1)

Thou shalt not do what we did...thy life will be the same as ours...

Don't get me wrong I don't think parents or anybody else should decide for her but this phrase is true. She needs to decide and take responsibilities about child for ever and not call for her parents or anybody else to help once she gat tired of being a mum. It's even more hopeless when future mum is a manor...
I keep telling my children not to do what we did OR if they do they MUST expect to have life very similar to ours (parents). Somehow they (children generally) keep doing same things as their parents and they stupidly expect different outcome. I am not psychologist but it's a common thing that children step in to the same "footprints" like their parents even if they know how hurt they were.
And one thing is for sure (no matter how bad they may be) parents (usually) love their children and do not want them to make same mistake and suffer same way but the whole thing is hopeless...children tend to experience everything personally...
And having a child is FOR LIFE. Most of the young people do not understand this...when life comes to bit them they would rather run from responsibility. I am appalled how many children here were raised in foster homes.
Ah this children - parents story is a long story...
About abortion generally we in communist countries were free to have them in hospitals for very little money. If minor, girl needed a consent of parents. I don't think that girl could be forced by parents to do it, on the other hand. Largely it was a contraceptive at the time cause not many woman (especially not educated) were using pills and condom was not so popular pre- HIV-AIDS.
Now when I think about it it wasn't right too. I think I am for some kind of "middle solution"...and yes sexual education FIRST and most important...

by vbo on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 11:55:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Connect these dots (4.00 / 3)

David Kurz on TPM:

Some people are downright giddy that the Bush Administration is about to be ensnared in another scandal. But I would remind them that nothing is more bipartisan than sexual indiscretion.
Stay tuned.

Mickey Kaus (yeah I know):

If Dean knows this, as he should, was his comment actually a malicious bank shot designed to make the campaign harder for Hillary, Richardson, or another Dem candidate--one with a "personal" problem?

It's all irresponsible speculation. But I'm feeling paranoid today.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 02:24:17 PM EST

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 5)

I hate that I am about to tell you this, because I hate that I'm paying any attention to this story at all.

ABC news has the client list.

Also on Palfrey's list of customers who could be potential witnesses are a Bush administration economist, the head of a conservative think tank, a prominent CEO, several lobbyists and a handful of military officials.

There are about nine million reader comments on the story saying "post the list."

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 02:38:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 3)

I sure do hope that's Bill Kristol they're talking about.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 2)

There are many, many, many, many possibilities conservative think-tank leaders in Washington.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (none / 1)

True! But there's no one I'd grant the spotlight to more than Kristoll.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 3)

They can't reveal anyone on this list - losing the suspense means losing the audience.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 2)

The way to do this is to slowly leak the information. It's probably a long list! But if they keep everything inside, they risk being out-scooped.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 5)

I had a half-written comment about turning the list into a prime time drama, but my self-esteem suddenly evaporated so I didn't finish it.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:20:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 3)

Only Jah knows how many comments and blog posts I have deleted in the same fashion.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 3)

I would remind them that nothing is more bipartisan than sexual indiscretion.

Oh, please! I'm so sick of all this false equivalence crap. Hiring prostitutes is a crime, not an indiscretion.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 3)

btw, nanne, just to be clear -- my irritation is directed at Kurz, not you! Paranoia, meet crabby as hell -- we should get together! We could clear this thread in no time.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:28:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 2)

We'll have to wait and see whether the equivalence is really false (in terms of Dems - Reps).

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:33:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 2)

Well, yeah, I agree. If Dems are hiring prostitutes, they're guilty as well, but I really sense that Clinton's blowjob is going to be dragged into this and that that's what he's getting at with his talk of "indiscretion." Of course, maybe he knows something we don't, but if that's the case, why the pointed reference now?

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Connect these dots (4.00 / 2)

I don't know if Kurtz wanted to say that (but hey, I don't know).

Kaus is an even bigger ass of course, as he thinks the Clenis is a problem for Hillary and doesn't see any problem with that.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Major patents rulings by SCOTUS (4.00 / 6)

http://guerby.org/blog/index.php/2007/04/30/159-la-cour-supreme-des-usa-secoue-le-monde-du-brevet

Microsoft Corp. v. AT&T (PDF)

KSR Int'l Co. v. Teleflex Inc. (PDF)

Links:

Bloomberg "Top U.S. Court Clears Way for More Patent Challenges"

Groklaw "2 Major Patent Rulings from the US Supreme Court"

Slashdot "Supreme Court Weakens Patents"

Patently-O "Supreme Court Retracts Patent Protection"

Against Monopoly "Big Supreme Court Ruling on Patents"

SCOTUS blog has many analysis:

Extracts KSR Int'l Co. v. Teleflex Inc. :

(page 24) And as progress beginning from higher levels of achievement is expected in the normal course, the results of ordinary innovation are not the subject of exclusive rights under the patent laws. Were it otherwise patents might stifle, rather than promote, the progress of useful arts.

Extracts Microsoft Corp. v. AT&T :

(pages 9 and 10) Abstract software code is an idea without physical embodiment, and as such, it does not match S271(f)'s categorization: "components" amenable to "combination" ...

(page 11) The distinctions advanced by AT&T do not persuade us to characterize software, uncoupled from a medium, as a combinable component. Blueprints too, or any design information for that matter, can be independently developed, bought and sold. If the point of AT&T's argument is that we do not see blueprints lining stores' shelves, the same observation may be made about software in the abstract: what retailers sell and consumers buy, are copies of software.

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:04:53 PM EST

Re: Major patents rulings by SCOTUS (4.00 / 3)

Good to see some kind of sense returning to the US patent system. Please diary.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:15:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Major patents rulings by SCOTUS (4.00 / 5)

I'm reading the content behind my links first :)

I'm kind of live blogging on my blog post, adding quotes and extracts from analysis. I'll diary the result on ET.

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:19:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Major patents rulings by SCOTUS (none / 1)

The people at conflictsoflaw.net also have a post up about (one aspect of) one the cases.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 04:34:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Major patents rulings by SCOTUS (none / 1)

Thanks for the link (included on my blog now).

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 04:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Monday (4.00 / 4)

http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/politiques/250888.FR.php

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 03:59:08 PM EST

Re: Open Thread - Monday (none / 0)

Hah! Great story.

From the comments section:

il est évident que si la blague avait été faite au détriment de SR, elle n'aurai eu aucune conséquence pour son auteur, pour la bonne raison que les responsables de F2 ont déjà intégré le fait que NS va être élu d'ou leur politique d carpette

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 04:10:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread - Monday (none / 0)

I do not agree at all with the Lbé paper title and many of the comments. It is a serious professional misconduct and so unacceptable, whether you like Sarkozy or not.

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 07:46:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Support Geremek (none / 1)

The courageous stand of Bronislaw Geremek against the McCarthyite policy of the Polish government has been noted in the Salon last week. Alex Harrowell has provided a rather excellent blog in response to it, and I have tried to put in my piece of mind here. I think that before long the Kaczinsky government will back off (although this hunch is largely based on the passive-aggressive behaviour the Kaczinskys have displayed in their relations with the German government)

Everything considered, it never hurts to sign a petition.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 04:20:57 PM EST

Re: Support Geremek (4.00 / 2)

It's a symbolic protest against the new lustration law. Geremek supported the lustration of both elected officials and the most senior government ones - i.e. including himself and has previously submitted the required declaration. What he's objecting to is the mass lustration - rather than a few thousand people, many hundreds of thousands, and serious due process problems with the verification process. Also, this isn't about 'have you ever been a communist' it's 'have you ever worked for the secret police'.

Under McCarthyism it was any association with the CPUSA - admittedly a pretty ugly party, but it was both insignificant and went beyond actual membership to even the most tenuous levels of cooperation. As the CPUSA sought to infiltrate and control a whole host of organizations devoted to progressive aims, e.g. anti-fascism and civil rights, it had the intended de facto effect of blacklisting most people active in progressive causes during the thirties and early forties. Here we're talking about working for the secret police under a dictatorship. For elected officials if you did and admit it you're not subject to any sanctions. The new law, however, is a bit vague on what's to happen to, say, civil servants or journalists, or academics who admit to working for the SB.

by MarekNYC on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 05:35:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Support Geremek (none / 1)

Thanks for the addition. From what I've understood from reading the press, it's not 'have you ever worked for', but 'have you ever collaborated with'. Which makes its scope about, say, 21 times larger (just an odd figure). Of course, the English language press may have misreported this, or I may have gathered the wrong impression.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 09:11:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Support Geremek (none / 1)

It's aimed at people who agreed to work as official informers - by official I mean signed an agreement to that effect.

by MarekNYC on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 12:10:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Support Geremek (4.00 / 2)

The focus on "saving Geremek" is misplaced: the EU should be using Geremek's case to press for the repeal of the law. Otherwise, the Polish government may be able to spare Geremek without changing course on the rest of their witch hunt, and Geremek's protest will have been in vain.

Bush is a symptom, not the disease.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 06:43:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Support Geremek (4.00 / 3)

Fair enough. Geremek doesn't need to be 'saved' because he's staging and enacting his protest all by himself, fully aware of whatever consequences. Still, I'd say, there have to be consistent restrictions on when a national government can withdraw a Member of the European Parliament (for instance, only in the case of an indictment under criminal, rather than refusing to sign a pledge of whatever sorts).

The online petition, for what it's worth, states the following:

We, European citizens, are deeply concerned by the principles of democracy and human rights and give our full support to Mr. Bronislaw Geremek. The Polish law of lustration, which threatens him of dismissal from his mandate of Member of European Parliament, directly breaks the rules and values to which Poland solemnly adhered, while becoming a Member State of the European Union.
We firmly urge for the Polish law of lustration to be repealed. Otherwise, we ask our European governments to consider the application of all the provisions of article 7 of the Treaty.

This is pretty much within the vein you suggest.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 09:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wingnuts: US and Poland (4.00 / 3)

Convention ends with Satan and immigrants
"Utah County Republicans ended their convention on Saturday by debating Satan's influence on illegal immigrants. (...)
Don Larsen, chairman of legislative District 65 for the Utah County Republican Party, had submitted a resolution warning that Satan's minions want to eliminate national borders and do away with sovereignty.
In a speech at the convention, Larsen told those gathered that illegal immigrants "hate American people" and "are determined to destroy this country, and there is nothing they won't do."
Illegal aliens are in control of the media, and working in tandem with Democrats, are trying to "destroy Christian America" and replace it with "a godless new world order -- and that is not extremism, that is fact," Larsen said.

Sounds just like Polish wingnuts - except they're not talking about illegal aliens 'controlling the media' and seeking to 'destroy Christian [Poland]' etc.

via Obsidian Wings

Speaking of Poland and Satan's dark minions, Wingnut daily (Nasz Dziennik)
has some fascinating new revelations about the feminist threat. I won't go into the details, but it seems that feminism is actually Satanism - literally. Feminists are witches who advocate for abortion rites because they need human sacrifices to the Evil One. In return the Dark Lord offers them great powers: they can harm or kill someone with their 'black magic' at a distance using the principles of 'sympathetic magic' and voodoo dolls, either obtaining something of the intended victims or by

'concentrating on the victim so as to 'impregnate' some small object. Filled with the bioplazmatic/psychotronic component of the person, the witch wraps it with soft wax from which it forms a small figure that serves the aims of black magic. Then [...] stabs the symbolic figure in the appropriate place with needles [...]"

You think that's impossible. Well, that's what the liberal media, run by the Satanists want you to believe, but as the testimony in The Wonderful Discovery of Witches in the County of Lancashire (1613) shows, such powers are very real.

As the article says in its concluding paragraph:

There is therefore a close link between witchcraft, feminism, and abortion. Witchcraft always was the domaine of Satan and Dark Forces, which often adopt a light filled, positive, guise using slogans of progress, freedom or enlightenment.

Aborcja, feminizm i czary, czyli mechanizm kozła ofiarnego (Abortion, Feminism, and Witchcraft: Or the Mechanism of the Scapegoat)

You'd think that with two countries at least one of them wouldn't have completely batshit nuts people in positions of power - I mean, what are the odds. But no both of mine got an extra helping of wingnuttery.

by MarekNYC on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 07:12:05 PM EST

On dKos (4.00 / 2)

Neocons love Obama

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 07:27:26 PM EST

Re: On dKos (none / 0)

The Kagan piece is self-serving distortion. However, it is true that Obama has surrounded himself with various liberal hawks who opposed the Iraq war and seems to share their views. You get Obama and the chance of another Iraq type war is pretty much nil, the chance of an intervention in Sudan or Congo skyrockets.

by MarekNYC on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 07:32:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On dKos (4.00 / 4)

While we're on the subject a plug for my favorite Dem candidate - John Edwards. Mark Kleiman is at the California Dem convention and has been taking notes:

Americans spend $4 for a cup of coffee, while newborns in Africa get AIDS because their mothers can't afford $4 worth of medicine.
What if we committed to funding primary education for every child in the world?
The world must see the United States as a force for good.
On my first day in office, you have my word that Guantanamo will be closed.
Global warming. 4% of population/25% of greenhouse gasses. How can we ask India and China to help.
Carbon cap. Ratchet down the cap. Auction the permits. $30-40B/yr. for clean energy r&d.
Tighter fuel-economy standards. [Why do you need that, with what amounts to a carbon tax?]
"It's time for a President of the United States to ask Americans to be patriotic about something besides war."
37 million Americans in poverty. If the Democrats don't speak up about that, why do we exist?
We're better than this.
Living wage; organized labor built the middle class; card check. If you can join the Republican Party by signing a card, any worker in America ought to be able to join a union by signing a card. Ban permanent replacement workers.

Full notes at: Edwards speech (note form)

NB On Obama you completely misunderstood what he was saying with the "this is not America" refrain - he is calling those policies anti-American and thus by extension, saying that the Republicans are traitors. He reinforces that by drawing an analogy of the Bush Administration's torture and imprisonment without trial of prisoners to the Jim Crow thugs who beat down civil rights marchers - i.e. invoking one of the most powerful symbols of America the evil vs. America as it should be. It is thus a very harsh condemnation of the Bush administration. As a French person you should be quite used to politicians using that rhetorical device.

by MarekNYC on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 at 11:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On dKos (none / 1)

That is a very provocative diary. I don't disagree with you, but I bet there are fireworks down-thread cos the cousins don't seem to like being told they're an aggressive militaristic empire.

I still think that Obama and Clinton have a primary non-aggression pact and are deliberately moderating their statements to "traingulate" on each other. Obama's speech was, imo, his stab rightward to meet Hilary coming back the other way.

Her statements during the Primary Debate about Iraq were extremely misleading about her track record. It was an open goal asking for Obama to call her on it, but he didn't.

The entire primary is a competition between the two of them about who's pres and who's VP.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 07:58:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On dKos (none / 1)

still hoping for Al...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Tue May 1st, 2007 at 09:26:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Open Thread - Monday | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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