European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses

by Londonbear
Sat May 12th, 2007 at 05:02:17 AM EST

Ken Livingstone is probably best known worldwide for introducing a Congestion Charge in the centre of London. This has been highly successful in increasing traffic flow in the area and has had an effect on the air quality. That tho is very much a bonus of the reduction in private vehicle usage.

Now Livingstone is going a stage further. From next year, the whole of the Greater London area becomes a Low Emission Zone. Any commercial vehicle over 1300 Kg not meeting the standard will be charged £200 a day. The scheme will use number plate recognition cameras linked to the National Driver and Vehicle Authority's database to ensure that it was either built after a certain date or has been adapted to meet the standard Euro III. The plan allows that from early 2012, in time for the Olympics, vehicles will have to meet the more stringent Euro IV standard.

In an attempt to reduce the vastly greater pollution in Beijing, the Chinese authorities are proposing to introduce EuroIV standards to cars in their capital from next year.

From the diaries ~ whataboutbob

. Home
. About
. Contact
. New User Guide
. FAQ
. Search
. Search (Google)
. Archives (Wiki)
Art, Economics, Energy, Environment, EU Politics, Mech & Tech, By Country

Username:
Password:

. Make a new account
. Reset password

London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Polluting Trucks and Buses (none / 1)

And folks in London are accepting this without a lot of complaints? If so, I'm impressed...

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Thu May 10th, 2007 at 07:11:59 AM EST

Complaints? (4.00 / 2)

You mean about cleaner air and less congestion?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu May 10th, 2007 at 08:47:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complaints? (none / 1)

I would expect complaints by businesses, including small businesses (delivery vans, etc). However, considering that Euro III dates from 2000, the effect of this will be to effectively retire all commercial vehicles older than 7 years.

Bush is a symptom, not the disease.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 10th, 2007 at 09:20:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complaints? (4.00 / 2)

There were a lot of cars up to the Euro III standard long before 2000 (and many cars that aren't can still be retrofitted).

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu May 10th, 2007 at 01:24:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complaints? (4.00 / 2)

Though there are quite of few quite interesting developments in terms of truck / delivery vehicles for plug-in hybrids, even electric that make the 200 pounds a serious incentive to move toward a different type of vehicle propulsion ASAP. And, this could be a market driver (especially if other major cities around the world were to adopt similar approaches).

Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart. NOW!!!

by a siegel (siegeadATgmailIGNORETHISdotPLEASEcom) on Thu May 10th, 2007 at 01:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and (none / 0)

Economist Robert Frank has an article about congestion pricing in today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/business/10scene.html

He claims that concern for the impact on the poor inhibits implementation of such plans and proposes a way around this.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Thu May 10th, 2007 at 01:41:34 PM EST

Re: London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and (4.00 / 2)

Thanks for the pointer.

He should have highlighted one of the not-so-hidden benefits. London's infrastructure requires major work. By getting cars off the road, this infrastructure work is able to proceed with less disastrous impact on the ability of people to move around (since their are fewer vehicles, taking some roads out while doing water work, for example, has less impact).

The NYTimes article -- I am not sure that I buy into the vouchers. Doesn't this create an entire layer of bureaucracy / etc and a new path for fraud. And, how to give out the vouchers? 100% of workers? NYC residents? Make it salary-based (lower the salary, more vouchers you receive)?

Yes, there will be "losers" in the congestion pricing even though the entire city and the globe would be better for it.

Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart. NOW!!!

by a siegel (siegeadATgmailIGNORETHISdotPLEASEcom) on Thu May 10th, 2007 at 01:53:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and (none / 1)

I agree that vouchers are bad and lead to bureacracy and inneficiency, but an even better idea is not to have vouchers and not to make the charge salary-based either. We don't have progressive taxation on petrol, do we?

No, because those things make the tax system more complex, something which is very bad. Instead, make the ordinary tax system a little more progressive, for example by using the incomes from the congestion charges to reduce income taxes for those who make the least money.

Or even simpler and fairer, raise the tax-free income floor for everyone. Everyone gets a tax cut (which make both rich and poor drivers a little more prone to support the charges), but the cut is relatively biggest for those who make the least.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 05:56:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and (none / 1)

Just as the charges are relatively the toughest to bear for those drivers that have low incomes.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 06:00:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and (4.00 / 2)

He should have highlighted one of the not-so-hidden benefits.

Actually, Mayor Bloomberg himself highlighted the issue:

... pledged not to begin imposing the fee for at least a year, until city officials can upgrade mass transit service into parts of New York City that are currently not well served by the city's subway or train system.
"Mayor Proposes a Fee for Driving Into Manhattan"

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sun May 13th, 2007 at 12:07:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and (4.00 / 5)

Driving a car is not a basic human right. The way to go around this is to use the money for better public transport, and perhaps free parking space around the priced zone. As the NYT states, the buses in London have gotten a lot quicker.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu May 10th, 2007 at 02:33:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've always been impressed by London bus service (none / 0)

But the Tube needs a ton of work. Just to bring it up to New York standards (which are still inadequate) they'd need to spend, oh, say what the UK has spent mindlessly sucking up to Bush the last five years.

by Matt in NYC on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 07:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've always been impressed by London bus servi (4.00 / 2)

That would be about 7.5 billion pounds by now, if the Telegraph is right here. In the fiscal year 2006-2007, the Tube served over 1 billion passengers. So that would be a cost 7 pounds and 50 pence per ride, over the period of one year.

According to the Transport for London release, they are investing 5 billion pounds in the tube, which comes pretty close. Looking at some .pdfs on the site, it seems they'll invest 7.565 billion pounds on the tube over the 2005-2010 period.

So, they're actually doing it :-)

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun May 13th, 2007 at 04:57:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses (none / 1)

I'm curious, what other European cities are restricting buses and trucks in their city centre's (or are thinking about it)?

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 05:03:32 AM EST

Re: Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses (4.00 / 2)

Germany is having a whole debate about plans to forbid entrance to city centers for the most polluting vehicles (green, yellow, red categories).
Sorry, I found it only in german so far.
http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,466747,00.html
The motivation is to abide the EU regulation of no more than 30 days a years over a limit for small particles in the air.

It is not clear how it will end, their is still doubts about the cost/effects, the right to limit people moving freely with their cars, the social justice of it and so on.

A tentative conclusion: people accept it when they see directly the benefits (congestion), not for abstract scientific proofs pushed forward by the EU. Like GW actions, the last one are a tough sell when you have to walk after the talk.

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.

by lacordaire on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 05:38:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses (none / 1)

Sounds like the discussions about the "pedestrian zones" years ago - how the shops will suffer, etc., etc. and now the cities and villages that went ahead with these zones have much livlier centers and my guess the shops are doing well too, if not better.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 05:52:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses (4.00 / 2)

yes and no.
I myself always use that very same argument about pedestrian zone when I see a fit. Typical is the smoking ban in the bars and restaurants.

But there, I am less sure: taking exhaust of Old and not so old carsoff downtown maybe take 20% of the small particles away, but it is a maximum.
No numbers at hand, but the ADAC had an analysis putting the own traffic of a road at 9% of the
particles measured on that raod; if you consider a bigger area, I guess you could reduce it more, maybe in the 20% range, but very little more: tyres and hitting the road, heating, industry are ahead of old cars exhausts.
If you read the results of some experiments made by http://www.eurolifenet.it/ in Milano, it is not very significant: spike results are 1000% over the norm, not 20%.

So I am not so sure what the effect of the "fahrverbot" downtown may be. If your hope lays with secondary effects, by pushing for cleaner cars, better public transportation, I am not sure you don't have better alternatives for similar results.

Last point: We are speaking of Munich and Düsseldorf, where old cars are not so many, not of Cairo or Beijing.
If the Chinese really go through with their plan to impose Eur4 within a year in some big citys, we will have some real life datas: I remember the bikes banned away within a night in Guangzhu (? Canton). It would likely happen before the German implementation.

Disclaimer: I have an old-timer which I drive 5 times a year and id parked in a to-be-restricted area.

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.

by lacordaire on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 08:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses (none / 1)

OK, I found the ADAC study.
http://www.adac.de/images/Luftqualitaet-in-Staedten_tcm8-43293.pdf

the graphic upper right is good, explaining the different sources of small Particles in Berlin.
I was not far of the mark saying that you can't expect much reduction by switchig to cleaner cars, at least from a german vehicle park starting point.

40% of 26% switching the local traffic to prius-like cars and trucks, 40% of 42% if you switch all the vehicles of the metropolitan area.
So my 20% were even too optimistic.

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.

by lacordaire on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 08:23:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses (none / 1)

Different angle -- how many cities are expanding pedestrian only zones?

Now, we can hope that other cities/countries expand 'pedestrian only' into 'clean transport only', a la London.

Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart. NOW!!!

by a siegel (siegeadATgmailIGNORETHISdotPLEASEcom) on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 07:04:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses (none / 1)

I forgot:
Bolzano/Bozen already has a ban on less than Eur4 cars and vehicles.
And Bolzano is not Napoli: if you are planning to travel there beware and check the datas of your car, it is enforced ;-)

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.

by lacordaire on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 08:26:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and (none / 1)

How many of those older cars banned from EU cities will stop circulating, and how many will simply be exported to the East or South where rules are softer?

What is the pollution generated by having to build new cars (which meet new pollution standards) rather than keeping old, functioning cars that pollute more?

How unhappy is the car industry lobby about measures that mean people will have to renew their cars more often?

Why are pollution standard evolving gradually rather than abruptly, allowing the industry to sell cars that don't meet next year's standards ?

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 11:34:25 AM EST

Recycling (4.00 / 2)

According to wikipedia on Recycling 42% of crude steel produced is recycled material. I know from previous research that lead-acid batteries are 97% recycled.

Guardian article blaming UK for being the worst:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cars/story/0,,2068630,00.html

Britain among worst in Europe at car recycling
Rupert Neate
Monday April 30, 2007
The Guardian
Toxic components from up to 1.3m cars scrapped in Britain last year were dumped illegally, an environmental study shows.
Airbags filled with carcinogens and hazardous waste such as mercury and lead were dumped in landfill sites in direct breach of a law requiring that dangerous pollutants are disposed of in an environmentally friendly way. An EU report into car recycling singles out Britain as one of the worst performing countries in Europe. Holland and Sweden were commended for having reached a target of recycling more than 85% of cars.
[...]

Another article with links to EU documents:

http://www.euractiv.com/en/environment/progress-slow-vehicle-recycling-study-shows/article-163630

EU report PDF:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/comparl/envi/pdf/externalexpertise/end_of_life_vehicles.pdf

JOM article about car lifecycle:

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0308/Kanari-0308.html

Busines link for EU car recycling:

http://www.emrltd.com/

by Laurent GUERBY on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 01:20:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and (none / 1)

The Euro norms are a deal with the car industry: you build cars with less emissions and we pass legislation that will bring people to buy new cars more often.
The cars I had so far were both older than me and finally, I had to give up driving because it became too expensive.
But that's no problem when public transportation is cheaper and almost as fast.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Sat May 12th, 2007 at 08:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

London To Price Out Most Polluting Trucks and Buses | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]