Grain Production and Population

by ATinNM
Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 07:48:42 AM EST

This started life as a comment to an article posted by Fran in the Salon and got out of hand. From the Energy Bulletin:

With carryover stocks of grain at the lowest level in 34 years, [as of June 16, 2006, grain stocks rose in October 2006 to the lowest level in 25 years and have now fallen back again] the world may soon be facing high grain and oil prices at the same time. For the scores of low-income countries that import both oil and grain, this prospect is a sobering one. (...)

Farmers are facing a record growth in the demand for grain at a time when the backlog of technology to raise grain yields is shrinking, when underground water reserves are being depleted, and when rising temperatures threaten to shrink future harvests.

(more below)

From the diaries, with format edit ~ whataboutbob


Water tables are now falling and wells are going dry in countries that contain half the world's people, including the big three grain producers: China, India, and the United States.  In China, water shortages have helped lower the wheat harvest from its peak of 123 million tons in 1997 to below 100 million tons in recent years. Water shortages are also making it more difficult for farmers in India to expand their grain harvest. In parts of the United States, such as the Texas panhandle and in western Oklahoma and Kansas, depletion of the Ogallala aquifer has forced farmers to return to lower-yield dryland farming.

<snip>

Perhaps the most dangerous threat to future food security is the rise in temperature.  Among crop ecologists there is now a consensus that for each temperature rise of 1 degree Celsius above the historical average during the growing season, we can expect a 10 percent decline in grain yields. When describing weather-reduced harvests, crop analysts often refer to the crop prospect when weather returns to normal. They fail to realize that with the earth's climate now in flux, there is no longer a norm to return to.

More and more in recent years, crop-withering heat waves have led to major crop losses. For a recent example, the early estimate of India's wheat harvest this year of 73 million tons dropped to 68 million tons as high temperatures during the crop's critical growth stage in January and February shrank the harvest.

The troubling constraints on grain production growth, such as spreading water shortages and rising temperatures, are making it difficult for farmers to keep up with the record growth in demand.  As a result the world grain market may become a seller's market, one where higher grain prices, like high oil prices, are an integral part of the economic landscape.

and, from the same source referencing a June 21, 2007 article by Sarit Menahem in Haaretz headlined "World Grain Stocks Fall to 57 Days of Consumption":

The price of wheat shot up 30% in less than a month, to a 12-year high of around $420 to around $600 for 5,000 bushels.

<snip>

When it comes to agricultural commodities, you can't ignore the effect of global warming. The weather is changing. Floods and droughts are not good for crops.

The U.S. is the biggest wheat exporter and its main cultivation areas are Kansas and Oklahoma.

"The last winter was a terrible one. The ground froze. A week ago the region was swept by rainstorms that turned the ground muddy and impossible to harvest," describes Ron Eichel, the chief international markets strategist at Israel Brokerage & Investments. It's still raining, too and the crops are rotting. Only 9% of the crop is rated as being in excellent condition, [emphasis added] the Kansas Agricultural Statistics Service said this week, adding that 37% is in horrible condition.  

It is to be noted China does not published grain production figures so their production is an even worse estimate than those for the US and India.

The increase in Grain Production:

has been met with an increase in population [Note the timeline is different from the previous chart!]:

and while the rate of increase is declining the total population is increasing.  Giving:

[Again, the timeline is different.]

Peak Oil plays into this in two ways.  First, as the cost rises for crude the costs of agricultural production also rises.  Oil is used, notably, as a fuel for farming machinery but it is also used as a basis for many farm input: fertilizers, pesticides, & etc.  Oil, as fuel, is also used for transportation - at all levels of the farm to consumer network - but is also in surprising ways, e.g., burned to dry the grains to acceptable moisture levels for long term storage.  Secondly, as the price of gasoline (petrol) increases the use of grain as the raw material for automobile fuel  substitutes, e.g., ethanol.  Thus, grain prices must rise to cover the rise in production costs and grain prices must rise as demand for grain stocks as fuel substitutes grows.

Global Warming will play a part, again in two ways.  As GW sets-in the current prime growing areas with shift northward.  Unfortunately, the farmers in these areas do not have the equipment, nor do they have the capital to purchase the equipment required for large field-crop grain production.  To give an idea, a lower range John Deere combination harvester has a base price of around $100,000 (US.)  The tractor, and equipment the tractor pulls around the field, runs about the same.  Ancillary equipment: dryers, wagons, grain harvesting heads, total about another $100,000.  $300,000 may not sound like a lot of money but it's beyond the financial reach of most farmers.  Secondly, as GW really starts to impact the weather it is to be expected the weather will move out of "normal" (since ~ 12,000 BP.)  This is Bad News for farmers since once a crop is in the field there's really no way -- without a massive expediture in money and effort -- to irrigate the crop; they have to depend on rain.  And rain will be a sometime thing.  Worse it has to be the right amount of rain as too much is as bad as too little and it has to be at the right times too early is as bad as too late, or never.

The good news is GW will open up new areas for grain field crop production.  The bad news is those areas lack the infrastructure required for 'taking up the slack.'  Try harvesting, storing, and transporting 10 million tons of corn (zea mays) without harvesters, grain bins, and railroad lines.  Further, if you don't do it right grain dust can catch on fire and even explode.  

Prognosis:  food prices will rise.  World hunger will increase.  Without an "activist goverment"  (alert the KlausBot!) and a whole bunch of world co-operation we can expect famine, mass migration, and a very high likelihood of regional food wars - think Rwanda with automatic weapons and machine guns. (I doubt WW III is in the cards since we don't have the oil.)  If the EU had any brains you'd be making nicey-nice with Russia since they look to be a major winner in the food production department as well as being a up & coming oil producer to boot.

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Night all ...

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Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 04:41:31 AM EST
Thanks for this article, ATinNM. Sobering.

My first wondering was, if grain prices are rising, wouldn't that benefit farmers in places like Sub.Saharan Africa, or even central and Northern Europe, where they could get better proces for their grain?

And another wondering, are their other cereals and grains that might be more adaptable? (Like rice, where there are more wet lands?)

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 05:54:26 AM EST
Rice is not without its problems:

How Rice Releases Methane -- 309 (5737): 985i -- Science

Rice agriculture is possibly the biggest source of anthropogenic methane: Rice paddies cover about 130 million hectares of the earth's surface, of which almost 90% are in Asia, and emit 50 to 100 million metric tons of methane a year.



"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 09:41:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My first wondering was, if grain prices are rising, wouldn't that benefit farmers in places like Sub.Saharan Africa, or even central and Northern Europe, where they could get better proces for their grain?

I really hate to say this, and not just because DeAnanader is going to go crazy ;-0, but you can kiss most of Africa good-bye.  Drought, kleptocracies, elimination of snow packs, desertification, massive overpopulation (relative to food supply,) Imperialistic domination, XDR diseases, and yadda-yadda ... it don't look good.  

This could change, of course, at just about any time.  But with a projected mass migration south from the equator Africa is one area where I expect a regional food war.  Just to note: South Africa has nuclear weapons.  

And another wondering, are their other cereals and grains that might be more adaptable?

You have the obnoxious habit of asking very interesting questions!

Short answer: Yes, No, Maybe.  (LOL)

One of the strangest aspects of US agriculture is the concentration of grain cultivation in areas that are actually marginal for that grain.  The Midwest should be growing wheat, instead of corn, and Kansas and Oklahoma, as they are part of the Short Grass Prairie ecology shouldn't be growing anything -- except grass and buffalo.  

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:44:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
South Africa was the first state in the world to give up its nuclear weapons capability voluntarily. When South Africa dismantled its advanced, but clandestine, nuclear weapons program and assumed a leading role in the nonproliferation regime, it was in anticipation of the country's immense political changes. The then President F.W. de Klerk's decision in 1990 to dismantle the apartheid system paved the way for democratic elections. All the bombs (six constructed and one under construction) were destroyed and South Africa acceded to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 1991. In 1993 F.W. de Klerk admitted the scope of the country's past nuclear activities to the IAEA and gave them access to the country's nuclear sites for verification purposes. On August 19, 1994, after completing its inspection, the IAEA confirmed that one partially-completed and six fully-completed nuclear weapons had been dismantled. As a result, the IAEA was satisfied that South Africa's nuclear program had been converted to peaceful applications. Following this, South Africa joined the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) as a full member on 5 April 1995. South Africa played a leading role in the establishment of the African Nuclear Weapons Free Zone Treaty (the Treaty of Pelindaba) in 1996, becoming one of the first members in 1997. South Africa signed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty in 1996 and ratified it in 1999.
(my emphasis)

Am I being asinine by assuming the motivation of giving up the nuclear weapons was not to hand them over to the blacks?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
During the Boer war didn't Britian refuse to give guns to the blacks?

We are for Justice and Mercy, and Truth and Peace, and true Freedom. Edward Burroughs 1659
by edwin on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 08:52:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, it's not asinine; that's widely acknowledged to be exactly the reason.

The ANC didn't argue to keep them because they had been anti-nuke anyway.  They didn't want to be a nuclear power.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what blows my mind is the over-reliance on just a few grains, corn, rice and wheat in europe and americas, rice and wheat in asia.

as the thin belt of naturally irrigated, fertile soils depletes and diminishes, we will probably get re-used to other grains, such as buckwheat and millet, which get short shrift, as do barley and quinoa, to name just four.

much to the benefit of our health, imo.

There are no blank spots on the map any more, anywhere on earth. You want a blank spot on the map, you gotta leave the map behind. Jon Krakauer

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 08:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Monocropping is a serious problem in the arid, drought-prone regions of southern Africa.  The historically diverse diets have shifted to an almost total reliance on maize (AKA corn), which drastically increases the population's vulnerability to weather extremeties, especially drought but also flooding, or anything that can cause widespread crop loss.

As a staple, corn is not the most nutritious crop, and it is particularly ill-suited to cropland where good rainfall is not reliable.  It requires a significant amount of rain at a particular time in the growing cycle, or the crop will fail.  It's particularly sad in Africa given that it's an introduced crop and was not the staple of anybody's diet until this last few generations.  Some leaders (like Banda in Malawi) encouraged people to "modernize" by embracing a maize-based diet and turning away from more traditional foods.  Nowadays, many people don't consider anything else to be "real food."

I know a few folks who have been out preaching diversification, trying to convince people that they can grow corn and other crops like millett, barley, sorghum, etc.  I've also met a few young people who've been trying to convince their families to diversify their crops as an act of self-preservation, but unfortunately it's difficult work for them.

An absolutely amazing woman named Dolores runs this restaurant in Swaziland that is based entirely on the idea that Swazi traditional food is not only good, but also the country's best hope against hunger.  I went there for the first time while there was a food shortage in Swaziland and 40 percent of the population was being fed by the World Food Programme.  She refuses to advertise, routinely rejects tour groups or invitations to the royal palace.  She doesn't grant interviews to the media.  Dolores doesn't want to reach foreigners, she wants to reach Swazis.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Monocropping is a serious problem everywhere.  Now let's add, the corn (maize) variaties (sic) predominately grown in the US (sorry) stems from one genotype discovered by researchers at the University of Missouri - IIRC.  

Thus, entire Midwest is one Eatus Muchas beetle or Killus Plantus virus infestation away from complete crop failure.

Dwarf wheat, the mainspring of the Green Revolution, is grown everywhere in the world.  It shares the situation as US corn only doubled, redoubled, and in No Trump.

In the EU locally developed, historic, cultivars are illegal to grow for purchase.  That's why most of your veggies taste like sawdust, in comparision.  The US relies on the Invisible Hand of the Marketplace© to deliver crappy tasting veggies to the consumer.   In both places, the Beefsteak-like tomato was selected for its ability to survive being dropped 3 feet (one meter) onto a concrete surface without the skin breaking.  

Which brings-up an interesting question:  Just exactly how often are the little buggers dropped onto concrete floors anyway?  Perhaps there are some things we really don't want know about our food supply.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the EU locally developed, historic, cultivars are illegal to grow for purchase.

Do you have a reference to this? Seems like a natural thing to lobby the European Commission and Parliament on.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:01:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reference from: The Lost Gardens of Heligan by Tim Smit.

Can't give an exact quote or page number as locating my copy would require a major archeological expedition into the dim recesses of my pile of book boxes.  (I'm under the delusion my little remodeling task will end and we'll actually get to move at some point in my life.)  IIRC look in the chapter about vegetable gardening, but don't hold me to that!

 

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here are two columns by George Monbiot about English apple tree varieties (the demise of):
From the second piece:
A couple of weeks ago, I went to buy some fruit trees. I travelled to the world's most unprepossessing centre of biodiversity: Langley, on the outskirts of Slough. In the first half of the 20th century, most of London's fruit and vegetables were grown round there. The farms were supplied by specialist nurseries, which ensured that Britain possessed a wider variety of temperate fruit trees than any other nation. Two weeks ago, only one of them was left. In the 1940s, JC Allgrove's kept 1000 varieties of apple trees. It is still listed in the directories as one of Britain's great growers. But I was among its last customers.

Since the owner died two years ago, the business has been run by a volunteer, Nick Houston. "There are bits of ground here where no one's been for 20 years," he told me. Recently, scrabbling beneath the ivy which now covers the orchards, he found a fruit he had never seen before. It was a Baumann's Reinette: the horticultural equivalent of a Faberge egg. "But I had no idea which bloody tree it had fallen off". Somewhere in the nursery there should be two varieties - King Harry and St Augustine's Orange - which even the national fruit collection doesn't possess, but he hasn't been able to find them yet. The land is to be sold. Nick will salvage what he can and run a business of his own, under the old name, to try to keep the rare breeds growing.

He gave a one-word answer when I asked him what had happened to the business. "Supermarkets". Today the apples they buy are landing three miles from JC Allgrove's. Heathrow's first runway was built on strawberry farms and orchards. From the air, you can still see derelict greenhouses and the parallel lines on the land where fruit trees once grew. Richard Cox, the man who bred the world's favourite apple, is buried beside St Mary's Church in Harmondsworth, which will be flattened if a third runway is built at Heathrow.



Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:10:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
head explodes

[Anger management techniques employed:  I am calm.  I am rational.  Breathe deeply & let it go ... let it go.]

[profanity laced rant excised]

Gosh.  

That's unfortunate.

But I suppose it's more important to have a new runway at Heathrow than saving cultivars developed over a thousand years.

Please excuse me.  I would like to go outside and scream for a wee bit.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:31:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But I suppose it's more important to have a new runway at Heathrow than saving cultivars developed over a thousand years.

It's called The Anglo Disease.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i thought they had to be capable of surviving a williams sisters wimbledon extended tennis rally, with serves a blistering 200 kph.

do not try this at home, kids.

that's also why you don't see ripe hayden mangoes or strawberry papayas around yurp much.

they don't make it over the net too often

There are no blank spots on the map any more, anywhere on earth. You want a blank spot on the map, you gotta leave the map behind. Jon Krakauer

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Be careful, you might be mistaken for a Malthusian.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 05:56:38 AM EST
I now refute the charge by stating:

At any time technological change could completely change the balance between food production and population.

(So there.  nyah)

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:25:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe that a coherent mechanism would consist of the following elements:

(a) widespread installation of CSP inland, and wind turbines on coasts;
(b) widespread introduction of energy efficient desalination eg www.pleat.no

and the turning of much desert and marginal land to agriculture using permaculture techniques.

Naturally this could not occur using our current deficit-based financing system.

But it could occur if investors (particularly governments unwilling to see further reserves going down the Dollar toilet) were prepared to receive a return of investment in energy,either via HVDC lines

http://www.trec-uk.org.uk/

or otherwise.

The enabling mechanism is the creation of funds consisting of "Energy Pools" of future production.

ie "Asset-based" Finance not dissimilar to Exchange Traded Funds invested in energy.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 07:29:29 AM EST
... the turning of much desert and marginal land to agriculture using permaculture techniques

Assuming GW and Climate Change, we don't know where the desert and marginal lands will be in 100 or so years.  Palm trees in the Thames Valley?  Scotland a major cotton exporting nation?  Coconuts in Finland?

(OK, I lied about that last one.)

I do agree with the shift to permaculture,  most of which principles are (as I understand them) what used to be called "Sound Farming Practices."  (LOL)  


Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:13:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Permaculture being? (too lazy to wiki)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 02:13:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We really need someone to code that plug-in that will allow one to highlinght text, right-click, and open a wikipedia search in a new window.
Permaculture is both a philosophy or lifestyle ethic as well as a design system which utilizes a systems thinking approach to create sustainable human habitats by analyzing and duplicating nature's patterns (ecology).

The word "permaculture," coined by Australians Bill Mollison and David Holmgren during the 1970s, is a Portmanteau-style contraction of permanent agriculture as well as permanent culture. Renowned environmentalist Dr. David Suzuki has stated: "What permaculturists are doing is the most important activity that any group is doing on the planet."

Today, permaculture can be described as a 'moral and ethical design system for the survival of people and their environment'. It seeks the creation of productive and sustainable ways of living by integrating ecology, landscape, organic gardening, architecture, agroforestry, green or ecological economics, and social systems. The focus is not on these elements themselves, but rather on the relationships created among them by the way they are placed together; the whole becoming greater than the sum of its parts. Permaculture is also about careful and contemplative observation of nature and natural systems, and of recognizing universal patterns and principles, then learning to apply these `ecological truisms' to one's own circumstances in all realms of human activity.



Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 02:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
10 rating for this.

That plug-in would be a wonder, and probably the reason why Scoop in its present form will only last another 12 months at most.

I've been re-reading 'TOOLS FOR CHANGE' - An invitation to dance ISBN 1-904235-55-7. IMO we should all have a look at this book, because it outlines the dynamics and development of communities. I was sent a copy by a member of ET, and the insights I have gained from this book are alone worth all the hours, days and weeks I have spent here ;-)

Hopefully, if TGB and I can get our act together (with the other contributors to ET-TV), we might be able to buy some commercial software that would enable all we wish to do.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 03:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No need to buy software ; we can either switch to another free content management software or, migration being such a hassle, update our software. I'm a coder and ready to participate, and I'd bet I'm not the only one (although I'd need to learn some stuff about webcoding, it'd be the perfect occasion)

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 04:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The biggest problem with Scoop is lack of internationalisation, and the fact that it's written in PERL.

Personally, I would suggest cloning the scoop functionality we like on top of Zope/Plone/CPS.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 04:50:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am SURE you are not the only one ;-) And we all need each other. Bringing different skills together. Isn't that how the Amish buíld barns? ;- )

We've had this discussion a few times. Our Dear Leader has admitted to knowing nothing about coding. I am not sure we have any technically literate people aboard in admin, other than our champagne socialist.

But in the broader 1000+ community of ET we have quite a few minds that can blow minds. The question is: how can we put these minds together?

IMO the search for that process: putting minds together, is the WHOLE point of ET. Bringing in the minds has, apparently, not been the problem. Getting these minds to work together  is the problem. And to do that, you need tools...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 06:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In New Mexico an evil activist Governor has been pushing the establishment of wind farms on our ranch lands.  The idea is a steer don't give a damn about a windmill whirling above their heads, there's no NIMBY problem since the nearest Backyard is 20 miles away, it would provide a good source of extra income for the rancher, it would increase state revenues for doing more evil activist things, allow New Mexico to be at the forefront of a whole new industry, and kick-off a economically beneficial autocatalytic reaction for the entire state.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.
by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, if water towers are not considered an eyesore in the US Midwest, I don't know what they're waiting to get a 2MW windmill in each town.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:11:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been kind of wondering about just this issue for awhile now but haven't managed to actually do anything about it, so thank you for this serendipitously timely diary.

Peak fuels might have a slight ameliorating affect here if it causes the abandonment low-density residential patterns, as this would free up square kilometers of arable land that has been "developed" out of production.

But I admit this is probably the proverbial fart in a windstorm.

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 09:29:08 AM EST
Low density residential land-use patterns is one of my pet peeves in life.  Sitting underneath Silly-Con Valley, California, is some of the richest, most productive, soils in the world with a mild climate encouraging plant growth.  So what happens?  It get covered with concrete and single family detached homes.

But human beings are rational ... yup, yup, yup.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Low-density residential land use makes urban agriculture possible. The alternative is probably a dense residential core and a "green belt".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not convinced - yet - by urban agriculture.

In medieval times in England the standard unit required to - barely - feed four households on a farm was called a Hide, and it's roughly 120 acres.

Assuming we're much smarter now - hmmmm - we can perhaps get the grain requirements of a family down into an area of maybe five acres instead of thirty. (That's possibly optimistic. Modern farming returns grain yields of 20:1 but is very intensive, and also allows fields to lie fallow every few years, which is only possible if agriculture is collective.)

Five acres is roughly two and a half football pitches, which is a little bigger than most people's yards.

The permaculture people claim you can live off a much smaller space than this. And if you build some greenhouses to concentrate energy and keep bad weather out you can - perhaps. But you won't be able to do it by growing cereals, which are possibly the most energy intensive of all vegetable crops.

And other crops really aren't all that calorific. If you want to eat a minimum of 1500 calories a day, you need very, very big plates of vegetables, or - ideally - some other source of carbs.

So realistically the most you can expect from urban agriculture is a bit of fill-in, and perhaps some barter. It will certainly help, but mainstream agriculture really does need to be collective and large-scale for maximum social and economic value.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 06:10:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Missing topic here is fish.
by Laurent GUERBY on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:58:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, fish is going to be missing soon.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:50:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not sure where fish comes in when talking about grain production and over-population ...  :-p ...

but ...

The short answer is: world fish stocks have either gone or are going bye-bye (technical phrase) and the answer is Stop.  Stop fishing until they recover; IF they CAN recover - in the Canadian experience they won't.  

It is possible the Cod have moved north into the Davis Strait as a result of increased sea temperatures off the Canadian coast.  Reflecting the northward movement occurring in the lobster grounds off the coast of the state of Maine.  I'd have to do some research to see if anyone has even looked up there for 'em. (The cod, not the lobster.)

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:08:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Faarmed fish get fed grain, and people get fed fish?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unless there has been a dramatic change in fish farming in the last 4 years ... (CYA!  CYA!)

Usually farmed fish are fed (so called) "trash fish."  The amount of grains fed to fish is insignificant.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mad fish disease?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Since you ran away from the US - you coward - you don't know the Absurd Hysteria of the Moment© in the US press is widespread reports of attacks by small furry animals, with rabies, on small children.  

Attacks by Disease Maddened Fish is only a newscycle away.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nine times over the past seven weeks, the Asian transplant that can breathe air and scoot slowly over land has been caught in a 14-mile stretch of the Potomac or its tributaries.

...

Already, there is a snakehead fishing tournament scheduled for July, and Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World at Arundel Mills in Hanover plans to offer a bounty on northern snakeheads -- $10 to $50 gift certificates, depending on the length of the fish.

This is crazy. The rate of capture is one every 5 days and they are already organising a tournament?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That article is three years old.  There was a serious manhunt... or, um, fishhunt, for them when they were first found.  At the time, the hope was that the fish was in its first generation and could be eradicated before it really took hold.  That hope has long since passed....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words, the tournament and the bounties were designed to encourage people to catch them, and to keep them rather than throw them back.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's clever.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually fer real and True ....

No, I didn't.

Now all they have to do is find the "scary invasive Chinese fish that breathe air and walk on land and eat everything in sight and breed like crazy" are illegal immigrant Al Quada terrorerrorists and we've got a Trifecta!

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
C'mon, it's only a matter of time before the grunion make it past the beach!  Invasion is immenent!  They must be stopped!

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So THAT'S why the Long Beach, California, City Hall is a replica of Hitler's beach defenses.

Them gahdamn gunions won't make it to Ocean Blvd.  

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I mean people getting Creutfeld-Jacob's Disease from eating cannibalistic fish.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I dunno about fishy CJD, but there's also the scary dinoflagellate that kills fish after giving them icky open sores and makes people sick too.  Plenty of fish hysteria to go around.  Not to mention your garden variety red tides....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:37:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can't happen at this moment since they're being fed the ugly pelagic stuff that's pretty much all you get from the oceans these days and they don't dare showing on the shop stalls.

But I saw on french TV a few weeks ago a doc on big french fish farms that go full vertical: since the crap catches are also collapsing, they are breeding their own bait fish to feed the noble species that have a market (Salmon, Daurade, what's the english for that ?? probably Bar/Loup aslo, which you gotta translate from one coast of France to the other)

Guess in a few years, they'll probably grow their krill in clone vats to feed the feed...

Pierre

by Pierre on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
let's hope that's all they're growing in those vats...

There are no blank spots on the map any more, anywhere on earth. You want a blank spot on the map, you gotta leave the map behind. Jon Krakauer
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
TBG started on calories, then all food is relevant :).
by Laurent GUERBY on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:40:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I conceed the point.

But ... Fair Warning! ... if afew, et.al., start discussing the effects of beans on Global Warming I'm outta here.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:09:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We've different cultivars, a greater diversity of cultivars, and better cultivars than they had (circa) 1,000 CE.  Research has given us access to knowledge that, when applied, vastly improves yield per plant.  Together, we can produce several orders of magnitude more food/hide than they.

How all this affects urban agriculture beats my pair of Aces.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But then again, I suspect that the "low" density of a modern suburb is going to be too high for efficient agriculture of any type, particularly when one takes the (relatively) extremely dense road network into account that seals so many square kilometers of soil.

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 07:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dervaes Family Farm on a suburban lot in Pasadena (Los Angeles area)

At Path to Freedom, the Dervaes family has steadily transformed their ordinary city lot in Pasadena, California, into an integral urban homestead. And, along the way, they are striving to become earth stewards, taking care of the precious gift we all have been given.

These eco-pioneers regard their 1/5 acre urban homestead as a sustainable living resource center where they are setting out to live by example while also inspiring others to "just do it!"

Their objective is to live as sustainably and self-sufficiently as possible in an urban environment in harmony with nature and each other, while also inspiring others to "think globally, act locally." Their homestead supports four adults, who live and work full time on a 66' x 132' city lot (1/5 acre).

The yard has over 350 varieties of edible and useful plants. The homestead's productive 1/10 acre organic garden now grows over 6,000 pounds (3 tons) of produce annually. This provides fresh vegetables and fruit for the family's vegetarian diet and a source of income.

The family operates a viable and lucrative home business, Dervaes Gardens, that supplies area restaurants and caterers with salad mix, edible flowers, heirloom variety tomatoes and other in-season vegetables. The income earned from produce sales offsets operating expenses and is invested in appropriate technologies, such as solar panels, energy efficient appliances, and biodiesel processor, to further decrease our homestead's reliance on the earth's non-renewable resources.

Over the years, by purchasing energy efficient appliances and using electricity conservatively, the modern homesteaders have cut their energy usage in half. Solar panels have reduced their dependence on electricity by two-thirds and have furthered their goal of energy independence. A solar oven is used to cook food on sunny days. And during the summer of 2005, the family built a cob oven, which is fueled by scraps of wood and twigs to create an energy source for cooking breads, pizzas, desserts, etc.

In 2003, the Dervaeses constructed a biodiesel processor from a discarded hot water heater, which enables them to brew low emissions biodiesel (a renewable, nontoxic, biodegradable replacement for petrol diesel) from used vegetable oil to fuel their diesel Suburban, reducing the vehicle's air toxins by 90%.

Citified farm animals

In addition, these urban farmers share their homestead with a menagerie of animals -- chickens, ducks, two rescued cats, red wiggler worms (which compost garbage) and two goats (Nigerian Dwarf and a Pygmy goat.

All the animals are treated with love, care and respect and full attention is given to their comfort and needs. Each breed is carefully researched and selected to fit into our urban homestead lifestyle and housing arrangements are designed for the animals' preferences and needs but with unique, space saving innovations. The family is vegetarian and none of the animals are raised for meat related purposes.

Future projects on the "to do list" are the installation of a greywater reclamation system, composting toilet, and a cistern to capture and store rainwater, which would dramatically reduce the use of precious water.

I wish everyone would quit saying "it can't be done" and pay some attention to the people who are already doing it.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brave and impressive, but also precarious. From their blog in January:

Just as we had feared - you kind of sense these things in your bones. The news this morning is devastating. Not a good start to the new year and upcoming planting season.  We still haven't rebounded from the hottest summer on record where we lost 90% of our heirloom tomato crop ( our most important cash crop that pulls us through fall and winter)  More recently having to deal with the big chill which wiped out the entire winter crop and set us back months.  Now with forecasters predicting a dry year the plants are going to suffer not getting the deep down moisture that we so look forward to in winter. It's going to be another long and difficult year, which I suspect will bring on quite a few changes in our lives.

Also, UK conditions are very different to Californian ones. We get much less sun here, much sharper winters - frost is normal, not exceptional - and a much shorter growing season. And we get a lot more rain. The usual Euro problem is that incident energy is much lower, so things grow more slowly. Not even Findhorn could match these people. ;)

Corn might work here, squash and root crops will, beans will, tomatoes will, berries will, but oranges and lemons won't, and the growing season for fruit is much shorter. I can imagine nuts - useful for protein balance - filling in as a high-calorie alternative.

Even so, 1/5 of an acre is an unusually large garden by UK standards. Allotments - small off-site vegetable gardens - are a popular hobby here, but the average size is something like 1/20th.

I suppose if lawnorder breaks down and there's a mad scramble for land, things might rearrange themselves.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 07:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Awesome that they're doing what they're doing, but doing it in a region that is water-poor is, frankly, a dumb idea when you're on such a small parcel of land.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 09:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ah well that gets us into the history of the Los Angeles basin, the theft of water from surrounding areas to build a megalopolis where none should really exist, etc. -- Mike Davis is the guy to tell this story, in City of Quartz.

the Dervaes family is where it is, doing what it can do;  I wouldn't have picked LA myself due to the precarity of the water supply, but it's where they found themselves.  I coulda picked on any of a thousand or so other examples out of the literature -- people reversing desertification by permaculture planting out in Arizona;  people reversing soil pollution (all over the place) by using brassicas, composting processes, and fungi to extract or convert toxins...

and yeah, suburban lots are larger in the US than in many countries.  which makes the US, paradoxically, a more promising place to relocalise food gardening...  even while it is the kingpin nation of corporate food.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:59:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep saying that the 4x higher population density of Europe (and 8x in Britain) is going to make things harder than in the US in many ways, if the fears about the coming crash are realised.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a lot of karmic / relative moral accounting going on when people envision the future, particularly when examining these particular issues. I think there is a part of people (including a lot of Americans) that can't believe that the US, with its radical overconsumption, could possibly come out better than much of the world once we've entered a permanent era of being energy limited, either in the literal sense or the moral "eye for an eye" sense. There's probably an article to be written there. We haven't had a good pie fight in a while either.

The American suburbs are my favorite example. The idea of abandoning them is ridiculous - if it comes down to it, you start putting two or three families in one house, abandon certain houses and subdivisions, and fill in with farms. The near-term doomers have a comical over reliance on assuming that there will be no adaptation.

In the medium term I still think Europe is better off - in a world of declining (but not critical) energy resources, infrastructure efficiency becomes the main variable in determining your (mostly material) quality of life.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe has a few hundred years' head start on the US in the resource depletion department.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what the suburbs notably lack is any transportation infastructure other than private autos.  so in a fuel-poor future they might easily split off into townships quite separate from the urban cores they sprawled out from.  the yuppies with no survival skills who built and originally inhabited them might leave, but I think they would quickly become microfarming belts, with each ridiculously huge house as you say, occupied by more than one family or by extended families.

the real problem is the quality of construction, for whuch in many cases "gimcrack" would be too kind. w/o endless inputs of repair/maintenance I don't see the average carburb home standing up well over a 40 year period.  the structures are so flimsy that they rely on high-tech and lightweight roofing materials -- anything heavier wouldn't be borne by the spindly little wall joists.  I imagine that creative survivalist families and townships would encase the entire structure in strawbale and adobe (or cob or whatever was locally available) to improve insulation and create a stronger perimeter to support more traditional roofing materials...  but this is idle speculation and more appropriate for a sci fi story than our immediate discussion...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
40 years is enough time to allow a "soft landing".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I'm an angry fatalist, Mike Davis is one one of my favorite authors, although City of Quartz is probably the only book of his I haven't read (but I think Ecology of Fear covers most of the same ground). If Los Angeles did not exist, then the land would be good for, well, the same sort of agriculture it was used for before the megalopolis showed up (hinted at by my "on a piece of land that size" qualifier).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 01:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
an angry fatalist

nice phrase.  moi aussi.

it's one thing to watch the crowded bus roaring straight at the brick wall and still accelerating... that's fatalism... what's angry-making is that it's a small freestanding brick wall in the middle of a huge coordinate grid of other choices;  knowing that the crash could easily have been avoided (where "easily" is a function of "preventing a bunch of greedy psychopaths from constructing our social reality"), that's (for me) the angry part...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
angry fatalists...

fate rage....

it would be easy, if all were on board.

i see it as a communication challenge.

like speaking japanese to turtles, but more fun.

and hopefully a better payoff

There are no blank spots on the map any more, anywhere on earth. You want a blank spot on the map, you gotta leave the map behind. Jon Krakauer

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:28:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, UK conditions are very different to Californian ones. We get much less sun here, much sharper winters - frost is normal, not exceptional - and a much shorter growing season. And we get a lot more rain. The usual Euro problem is that incident energy is much lower, so things grow more slowly. Not even Findhorn could match these people. ;)
Of course, Southern California is on the latitude of Morocco.

We tend to have a mental picture of the US and Europe as being eye-to-eye so to speak, but have a look at any map and you'll see that the US is noticeably south of Europe (15 degrees on average, maybe?). The Mediteranean is temperate but Caribbean is subtropical. Madrid is on the latitude of San Francisco (and New York). Oslo is on the latitude of Anchorage.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:53:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Even so, 1/5 of an acre is an unusually large garden by UK standards. Allotments - small off-site vegetable gardens - are a popular hobby here, but the average size is something like 1/20th.

I suppose if lawnorder breaks down and there's a mad scramble for land, things might rearrange themselves.

The UK has a population density 8 times that of the US, so people might get less than 1/20th of an acre.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The survivors would possibly get more. Outside of the cities, population density is relatively sparse. Wiltshire is mostly open fields. Out here the density is something like 20 people per square mile.

Google says there are about 14 million arable acres in the UK, and 60 million people. Assuming families of 4 - a bit of a stretch - that's around one acre per family.  

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 09:56:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Although I agree with your analysis for the most part, I do not believe that the problem of moving the crop cycle northward would be equipment.

First, presumably the idle equipment in the south would be for sale. Second the investment even for new equipment would be repayed fast with increasing prices.
Third, governments will subsidize it. Fourth, irrigation is practicable IF the water table is sufficient -- it is being done in large scale for grain in Greece and I am sure it is done elsewhere (see Israel etc).

No the bigger problem is that the soil in vast expanses of the North has no nutrients suitable for crop production. Either massive scale of fertilization or very smart crop alterations would be needed to make cultivation work.

Any way, as Migeru says, be careful you might be labeled a Malthusian :-)

Orthodoxy is not a religion.

by BalkanIdentity (balkanid _ at _ google.com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 09:39:52 AM EST
Thank you for your comment.

First, presumably the idle equipment in the south would be for sale.

True.

Second the investment even for new equipment would be repayed fast with increasing prices.

Maybe.  The price at the grain elevator paid to farmers and the price paid by the ultimate consumer of that grain have little to do with each other, at least in the US.  Eventually the producer price should rise if other potential factors aren't introduced: confiscation, price limits, & etc.

Third, governments will subsidize it.

This is tricky.  Long term agricultural policy in the US is set to favor the large ag trans-nats: Cargill, ADM, IBP, Monsanto, & their ilk.  Short term ag policy (2 years or less) is established by a barely controlled riot.  

I hope you are right shown to be correct but I wouldn't count on it.

Fourth, irrigation is practicable IF the water table is sufficient

Irrigation, in the US, is losing effectiveness.  The various aquifers are nearing depletion in the short grass prairie and salt accumulation in the vital top 1/2 inch of the topsoil in California is lowering productivity - to put it mildly - in the Central Valley and Sacramento River areas.  

No the bigger problem is that the soil in vast expanses of the North has no nutrients suitable for crop production.

Absolutely true.  And a whole 'nuther topic and one that I cannot claim to have any great expertise.  What I do know is the inadvertent introduction of the humble, common, European earthworm was the best thing you Euros did for the US.  The 'castings' (i.e., worm shit) are extremely rich in plant nutrition and their burrowing turns the topsoil over bringing trace minerals up from the subsoil.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 12:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There were no earthworms in North America? That's wild!
Only two genera of Lumbricid earthworms are indigenous to North America whereas introduced genera have invaded areas where earthworms did not formerly exist, especially in the north. Here forest development relies on a large amount of undecayed leaf matter. Where worms decompose that leaf layer, the ecology may shift making the habitat unsurvivable for certain species of trees, ferns and wildflowers. Currently there is no economically feasible method for controlling earthworms in forests, besides preventing introductions. Earthworms normally spread slowly, but can be widely introduced by human activities such as construction earthmoving, or by fishermen releasing bait, or by plantings from other areas.

Soils which have been invaded by earthworms can be recognized by an absence of palatable leaf litter. For example, in a sugar maple - white ash - beech - northern red oak association, only the beech and oak leaves will be seen on the forest floor (except during autumn leaf-fall), as earthworms quickly devour maple and ash leaves. Basswood, dogwood, elm, poplar and tuliptree also produce palatable foliage.

As expected for introduced species, they may be considered a "pest".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:08:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There were earthworms.  They didn't do as good a job in a short amount of time as the European invader.  

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.
by ATinNM on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:27:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are obviously a lot more knowledgable on this topic than I am and thank you for taking the time to answer each point.

I would just like to point that your view appears to be very US centric -- not that this is a problem -- but I had in mind other areas like Greenland and Siberia as well.

Aquifer depletion is a significant problem and that is why I put the 'IF' in my statement. I presumed (without knowing) that undepleted aquifers can be found in the North and therefore provide an additional 50 years of reliable water supply for irrigation.

Orthodoxy is not a religion.

by BalkanIdentity (balkanid _ at _ google.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 09:29:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I kept my response US-centric due to my lack of knowledge of the agricultural potential of the soils in the higher latitudes under projected Global Warming.  ("lack of knowledge" = "doesn't have a clue"  ;-)  

In general, underground water sources in the US have been discovered and are undergoing depletion.  In specific - to my knowledge - there is only one major source that hasn't been developed west of the Mississippi in the US.  That source is brackish thus requiring a good deal of energy to allow it to be used.  Outside the US?  Again, I don't really know but I suspect they have been found and are being depleted (thinking of the Aral Sea) as well wherever agriculture is currently, or has been, practiced.  

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 12:55:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of the world's largest aquifer (so far largely unexploited) is the Guaraní aquifer, which is under Paraguay, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina. Maybe that has something to do with Bush's new 40,000 Ha ranch in Paraguay?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry... his new what?
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
His new 40-thousand-hectare ranch in Paraguay. That's 20Km squared.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:24:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<whimper>
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why are evil people always one step ahead of everyone else?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:15:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wait, you don't have a ranch in Paraguay?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wait, you do?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:37:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aha!

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.
by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you're still around, can you drop me an email? The guys over at TOD (the oil drum) would be interested in a version of this diary for their site. Interested?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
email sent


Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.
by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i think it's quite possible the high rate of celiac disease is a reaction to the disproportionate ratio of wheat in the westTM, the better part refined, to add insult.

grains, well-digested, supply polysaccharides, or slow-burn sugars that give sustained energy, as opposed to the fierce, brief burn you get from mono-saccharides, like sugar and fructose.

they also are much gentler on the pancreas, and the isles of langerhans.

there would be a marked reduction in diabetes (and cancer, heart disease) if people retrained their bodies to become cerealarians, as well as enough food for everyone as less of that valuable protein was shovelled (along with their own brains) into cows.

but cows are not particularly know for their deep rationality or swift thinking, so not surprising so many of their eaters have similar issues...

<ducks...>

a l'orange, bien sur!

There are no blank spots on the map any more, anywhere on earth. You want a blank spot on the map, you gotta leave the map behind. Jon Krakauer

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 08:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't have a good sens of the litterature on the topic but I believe most studies on global warming and food production still claim that the agriculture of OECD countries will benefit from a 2 deg C mean temperature rise, which I think would imply a more or less neutral effect of climate change on global food supply until at least mid-century according to mid-range climate scenarios. However, most work on this I have seen is not very recent and as far as I know could be wishful thinking. Unfortunately, the "Impacts, adapatation and vulnerability" section of AR4 (IPCC report) isn't yet available so we don't have a detailed synthesis to assess the models with regard to their sensitivity to CO2 fertilization levels which is a debated topic and whether droughts and heat waves as seen in the last decade are sufficiently accounted for. At any rate, the effects of warming on agriculture will be much greater in developping nations which doesn't bode well on the reactivity of developped nations on this issue.

Since we are including climate change in the equation of the food supply, soil erosion will probably also play in important role at these time scales especially when combined with Peak Oil and fertilizer cost: "As a result