Medieval Optics

by cam
Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 07:00:36 AM EST

David S. Landes argues that the Medieval era, often seen as a dark period of stagnation between the Roman Empire and the Renaissance, was a period of important technological innovation. It produced advances in the water wheel, spectacles, the mechanical clock, printing and gunpowder. Landes writes that the decentralised nature of European politics meant that there was greater impetus for political and economic advantage through technological innovation.

From the diaries ~ whataboutbob


Prior to 1300 and the invention of what we would call glasses, craftsmen who hit age forty, and the inevitable hardening of the eye's lens, meant that skilled craftsman had a massive drop off in productivity from that age on. In many cases it meant they could no longer work in that industry as their eyesight was no longer good enough to produce finely crafted products.

Glasses - two lenses connected by a bridge across the nose that allows the hands to be free - for far-sightedness were invented in Pisa in the late 1200s. Landes writes:

A seemingly banal affair, the kind of thing that appears so commonplace as to be trivial. And yet the invention of spectacles more than double the working life of skilled craftsmen.

Biological limitations of the eye's decay no longer was an impediment to working. Consequently the skills and knowledge of the skilled craftsman was not lost as their eyes made it more and more difficult to work in specialised industries.

This innovation led to economic benefits beyond productivity improvements; Europe had a trade monopoly on spectacles for several hundred years.

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As a strongly myopic bookworm worried about a collapse of industrial civilisation, I am actually very interested in the technicalities of medieval lens-making.

Note that the telescope and microscope (based on the principle of putting two lenses, not just one, in front of the eye, are attributed respectively to Galileo Galilei and Anton van Leeuvenhoek in the first third of the 17th century.

Actually, I surmise that, in a dystopian future, knowledge of Fermat's Principle (later 17th Century) would allow people to design optical instruments more easily than by the trial and error that was probably involved in the construction of spectacles in the middle ages.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:05:54 PM EST
It always interests me how much history of science is more about personality and narrative than recorded fact.

Galileo doesn't seem to have invented the telescope so much as improved it, used it and - most of all - marketed it.

Likewise with the microscope.

A good rule of thumb seems to be that if 'everyone knows' someone invented something, it's more likely that someone else did - and no one has ever heard of them.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:38:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's called Stigler's law of eponimy, which probably wasn't first enunciated by Stigler.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The good news is that
long-sightedness tends to have a later onset for those of us who are short-sighted/myopic to begin with.

A case of the geek shall inherit the earth?

by Sassafras on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:45:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't you and David E. Landes know anything? Nothing much (and certainly no "technological progress") happened before the English invented Capitalism aroung 1800 (says the Wall Street Journal).

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:09:37 PM EST
Actually, feudalism in place during the middle ages is capitalism: the lords owned the land, which was the rente, or capital, and they even sometimes owned the people that lived on it. Population levels of that plebe were self-regulating with advanced feed back systems (aka famins and pleagues). It was a near-static, sustainable economy, and probably what we're heading for, in a more industrialized and urbanized fashion (considering your own very accurates quotes of Adam Smith).

My feeling of the true reason for the Renaissance and continued technical progress that ensued, was the competition between elites of european powers from the moment they became nation-states. Before that, all Europe was a homogeneous pack of brute lords vaguely kept in check by latin-speaking clerics.

Then during the XXth century there was competition with communism, the hardly new alternative economic system. And now it is busted, there is little inside competition: the elite is globalized, and will institute a new global feudalism. But they will try to maintain some innovation, at least for the military: they have external challengers in the emerging nations, possibly ressource nationalists (not sure these will last), and they clearly don't feel good with muslim nations, may be that's why they start new crusades.

Pierre

by Pierre on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:14:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My own take on the Renaissance is that it's the result of an adaptive radiation following the mass extinction of the 14th century (the economic and cultural dislocations resulting from the Blach Death).

I really need to research what 19th Century English liberals thought about "the end state of capitalism".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wikipedia says:

One theory that has been advanced is that the devastation caused by the Black Death in Florence (and elsewhere in Europe) resulted in a shift in the world view of people in 14th century Italy. Italy was particularly badly hit by the plague, and it has been speculated that the familiarity with death that this brought thinkers to dwell more on their lives on Earth, rather than on spirituality and the afterlife.[19] It has also been argued that the Black Death prompted a new wave of piety, manifested in the sponsorship of religious works of art.[20] However, this does not fully explain why the Renaissance occurred specifically in Italy in the 14th century. The Black Death was a pandemic that affected all of Europe in the ways described, not only Italy.

I think it's more likely that discovering that the Church didn't have a monopoly on thought or philosophical authority created a huge shock.

One of the things that seems to have changed is the move from small-scale warlords and petty monarchs to collective rather than individual city-state patriotism.

Italian city states somehow sublimated some of the war urge and turned it into a cultural status game. Wars didn't stop, but having a local set of pet artists and intellectuals became an alternative focus for competition.

It would be an interesting thing to try to make it happen again. If power devolves to more local representations, it might - although it's going to be hard to remove the Church of the Economy's monopoly on thought without an external influence, or an outright implosion.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 06:11:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember from studying literature and art in High School that there was a huge cultural change as a result of the Black Death. Whole new themes appeared, especially the idea that death levels social hierarchies as the Plague affected the clergy and the nobility as well as the peasantry.

Look at Wikipedia's 14th century timeline (a Eurocentric selection as I don't really understand the significance of the events from other continents):


  • The transition from the Medieval Warm Period to the Little Ice Age
  • Beginning of the Ottoman Empire, early expansion into the Balkans
  • The Avignon papacy transfers the seat of the Popes from Italy to France
  • The Great Famine of 1315-1317 kills millions of people in Europe
  • The Hundred Years' War begins when Edward III of England lays claim to the French throne in 1337.
  • Black Death kills almost half of the population of Europe. (1347 - 1351)
  • The heresy of Lollardy rises in England
  • The Great Schism of the West begins in 1378, eventually leading to 3 simultaneous popes.
  • An account of Buddha's life, translated earlier into Greek by St John of Damascus and widely circulated to Christians as the story of Barlaam and Josaphat, became so popular that Buddha (under the name Josaphat) was made a Catholic saint.
  • Reunification of Poland under Ladislaus I of Poland
  • Peasants' Revolt in England
  • The poet Petrarch coins the term Dark Ages to describe the preceding 900 years in Europe, beginning with the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 410 through to the renewal embodied in the Renaissance.
  • The Scots win the Scottish Wars of Independence.
  • Union of Krewo between Poland and Lithuania.
  • The English word "abacus" used to describe the calculating device from China.
  • Wang Dayuan, the first Chinese to sail into the Mediterranean while visiting Egypt and North Africa from 1334-1339.

Consider the Great Famine as a pre-shock (earthquake analogy) of the Black Death. Then, after the Black death you have a succession of events which indicate great disruption of the religious, cultural, and political order.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 06:33:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i've just been translating a bit of wang dayuan's geography of the south seas. what an interesting coincidence to see his name come up here.
by wu ming on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 03:50:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm wondering about this. I recently read a book about travels in the Middle Ages ; It mentions Europeans and Arab going to China (Marco Polo), but doesn't talk about Chinese people coming west...

Could you tell us more about him? Or point to an english resource?


Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 06:36:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
which hopefully will help me to leverage my little dissertation, should i ever get it done. most of the chinese travel accounts and geographies aren't translated. of the books that i'm working with, the 13th century zhufan zhi, a geography of the south seas (albeit not a travel account, he talked to a bunch of arab and chinese merchants for the details) by zhao rugua was translated by hirth and rockwell in 1911, although it's long out of print, paul pelliot translated zhou daguan's zhenla fengtu ji, a 14th century embassy record to cambodia, into french, and zhou qufei's lingwai daida12th century geography of south china and the south seas, was translated into german. beyond that, zheng he's 15th century voyages all over southeast asia, india and east africa have been the topic of more aattention, with edward dryer's zheng he: china and the oceans in the early ming dynasty, 1405-1433 being the most credible of the lot (don't get me started on gavin menzies).

as for wang dayuan, he claims to have actually visited all the places that he lists in the daoyi zhilue [geography of island barbarians], but his accounts of many places appear to crib from earlier geographies, so it's hard to tell if he personally went there (in a manner similar to marco polo, actually), but clearly he had access to people that did. lots of merchants going back and forth between china and southeast asia and india, probably less getting all the way into the mediterranean.

by wu ming on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 03:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be an interesting thing to try to make it happen again. If power devolves to more local representations, it might - although it's going to be hard to remove the Church of the Economy's monopoly on thought without an external influence, or an outright implosion.

it's hard right now because of tectonic friction between paradigms, more heat than light being produced....reminds me of fran's comment on a thread lately about the left being mostly against stuff, not for anything.

as for the 'church of the economy', it's a ponzi scheme,as has been detailed here many times, not least by contrast with new models like LLP's, and will fall under its own weight, taking those too near to it's teats, and leving by default what you suggest, a decentralised, more local representation of power.

great comment, tbg, as usual.

"Music is the pleasure the human mind experiences from counting without being aware that it is counting." - Leibniz .

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 07:44:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My feeling of the true reason for the Renaissance and continued technical progress that ensued, was the competition between elites of european powers from the moment they became nation-states. Before that, all Europe was a homogeneous pack of brute lords vaguely kept in check by latin-speaking clerics.

Then during the XXth century there was competition with communism, the hardly new alternative economic system.

And also competition with the Nazis, who were technologically adept, even if they had no other redeeming features.

Cold War progress would have been impossible without German technology - either directly through co-option of people like Von Braun, indirectly through the pre-war exodus to the US, as a direct response to real challenges like Enigma, or to perceived challenges like the largely-mythical Nazi bomb.

WWII made a terrible mess of Europe, but without it we might still be using bakelite phones and large thermionic calculating machines.

I agree that without a sophisticated external threat, progress is stagnating. Cold War spending was more or less directly responsible for PCs, the Internet, for satellite links, and for other innovations that are taken for granted now. But the US culture of R&D that began in embryonic form after WWII and flourished in the 50s and early 60s has been almost dismantled now.

Military research has taken repeated detours to wacky-land and seems to have drifted away from seedcorn theoretical investigations into building bigger, and - most of all - more expensive hardware, largely for the sake of it, and irrespective of real strategic effectiveness.

The US military has turned itself into a very expensive, mobile and globally deployable Maginot line.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:54:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And also competition with the Nazis, who were technologically adept, even if they had no other redeeming features.

Germany (and the German-speaking countries) was leading the world in so many scientific and technical fields in the decades up to the 1930's that I used to joke "if it hadn't been for Hitler we'd all be speaking German now".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 06:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's possibly not a joke. Hitler was such a total ass-clown and loser that there was never any chance at all of the Third Reich being anything more than an epic disaster.

But if Weimar hadn't fallen apart, the Germans might well have bought the entire British Empire - much like China is buying the US now.

Between the wars 'Made in Germany' had some of the same meaning in the UK that 'Made in China' has for the US today. Only with more of an innovative edge.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 06:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is intended as a semi-serious retort to Americans saying that, had it not been for them, Europeans would now be speaking German.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 06:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Like the Chinese in a few years: if it weren't for Bush we'd all be speaking English by now.
by bil on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 10:00:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Trouble is for Landes, there's an alternative explanation, that doesn't fit in with his neat theories about internal diversity  of states producing innovation.

advances in the water wheel, spectacles, the mechanical clock, printing and gunpowder

There's a reasonable stack of evidence relating these advances to increasing trade with China, which reached higher levels than before in the Middle Ages, largely due to changes in Central Asia around that time.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:47:04 PM EST
China, which reached higher technological levels than Europe before in the Middle Ages

China also invented paper money before Europe.

However, Gutenberg invented movable type.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but he wasn't the first to. the chinese came up with it pretty early on, but for a variety of reasons - the number of characters vs. letters in the alphabet being a major reason - it was not as practical as woodblock printing.
by wu ming on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 03:43:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Middle Ages are certainly not a period of stagnation between the Roman Empire and Renaissance.

The large cycles where essentially, after the fall of the Roman Empire, and the continuing descent of the Merovingian, a Carolingian renaissance that started a population and technology growth that was stopped in the middle of the 14th century by a combination of the Black Plague and the Hundred Years War. However, growth had all but stopped by the end of the 13th century.

The high point of that period was higher than is usually thought of ; European population in 1300 was in many places equivalent to that of the 18th century. (Although warmer weather helped population level in the middle ages compared to the 18th century).

The renaissance was really the rebirth of wealth after the 14th century crisis ; it is more understandable to us because the society it gave birth to is still essentially ours, whereas Medieval society was radically different.

Using the concept of capitalism to explain that society is a bit preposterous, although it saw the rise of modern banking concepts (the trading fairs in Champaign, in the middle of the road between textile producing Flandres and Northern Italy, had concepts of clearing houses, credit letters, that are probably closer to the modern concept of money than the government backed paper money of China).

The local lord's rights on his land were not necessarily those of the owner ; those lands that had a cash-fixed rent saw this rent made ridiculous by inflation, for example.

The general economy was ruled more by pillaging and the king redistributing conquered land to those serving him than by barter and commerce. Such concepts may be alien to us, but show other, completely different ways of organising the global economy than the modern capitalistic one, which is dubbed "natural" by its proponents.

Religion and personal link to the patron where the defining concepts for social relationships, not money and nationality. Rational thought wasn't as important as tradition and symbols, except for a few theologians in universities. Gothic art doesn't use perspective not because the artists couldn't do it but rather because it was unimportant.

As for innovation, there were many, such as the new way to attach the horses and the beef to the chariot, which allowed for a much more productive use of animal labor ; the decreasing importance of slave labor (all bought out by the Sarrazins down south, and supply was limited as turning christians into slaves was frowned upon) meant that animal labor was in the process of substituing to human labor. The real move from innovation appearing somehow, in a semi random manner, to rational discovery and application of scientific knowledge, didn't happen with the renaissance but much later.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 07:02:47 PM EST
The real move from innovation appearing somehow, in a semi random manner, to rational discovery and application of scientific knowledge, didn't happen with the renaissance but much later.

Off at a tangent, I heard the renaissance happened earlier--or rather, the renaissance is the western bloom of the methods of enquiry set up by Ibn al-Haytham a.k.a. Alhazen.

In particular, I heard that his methods--his ideas and his practices--were...well, they blew the minds of those who came across them and the...in the version I heard it was the university at Paris that I remember...that it was founded by his followers.  Ibn al-Haitham died in 1039 and University of Paris "first appeared in the latter half of the twelfth century", which compares to Bologna's origins at the end of the eleventh century (imagining a movement east to west) and Oxford, which claims roots back to the end of the eleventh century...

I don't know enough about this...expert help requested...but let's see.

Roger Bacon:

The only source is his statement in the Opus Tertium, written in 1267, that forty years have passed since I first learned the alphabet. The 1214 birth date assumes he was not being literal, and meant 40 years had passed since he matriculated at----Oxford at the age of 13. If he had been literal, his birth date was more likely around 1220. In the same passage he reports that for all but two of those forty years he had always been engaged in study.

His Opus Majus contains treatments of mathematics and optics, alchemy and the manufacture of gunpowder, the positions and sizes of the celestial bodies, and anticipates later inventions such as microscopes, telescopes, spectacles, flying machines, hydraulics and steam ships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Bacon

(My emphasis)

Now add this, from Abdus Salam:

Ibn-al-Haitham (Alhazen, 965-1039 CE) was one of the greatest physicists of all time. He made experimental contributions of the highest order in optics. He enunciated that a ray of light, in passing through a medium, takes the path which is the easier and 'quicker'. In this he was anticipating Fermat's Principle of Least Time by many centuries. He enunciated the law of inertia, later to become Newton's first law of motion. Part V of Roger Bacon's "Opus Majus" is practically an annotation to Ibn al Haitham's Optics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Haitham#_note-Salam

(my emphasis)

So...I can run a line from Ibn al-Haitham's work, it's blowing of various minds as the idea rushes east into the universities only, perhaps, to find the black death killing half of all people, but the knowledge at least stored and being worked on so that when society had re-constituted itself--and I suppose as it was in the process--the new methods widened out...and the western italian renaissance is famous because it is where the church finally loses its hold as the method eats its original western sponsors...by denying, among other things, that the sun went round the earth.

...and then the methods were applied...because the church no longer held the veto, and boom!  The expansion of knowledge out of the small university groups and into wider society.

Hey!  Maybe it was something like that?

Or maybe you meant something different...you got me thinking, that's all.  ;)



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 07:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sure you all know this already, but a search for islamic inventors brings up a lot of links to this article:

http://attalib.blogspot.com/2007/05/how-muslim-inventors-changed-world.html

...though I agree with a commentator I read who said that at least some of these pre-date islam and should rather be stated as...middle eastern?

Anyways, here's a taste for those who haven't read it.

6. Distillation, the means of separating liquids through differences in their boiling points, was invented around the year 800 by Islam's foremost scientist, Jabir ibn Hayyan, who transformed alchemy into chemistry, inventing many of the basic processes and apparatus still in use today - liquefaction, crystallisation, distillation, purification, oxidisation, evaporation and filtration. As well as discovering sulphuric and nitric acid, he invented the alembic still, giving the world intense rosewater and other perfumes and alcoholic spirits (although drinking them is Haraam, or forbidden, in Islam). Ibn Hayyan emphasised systematic experimentation and was the founder of modern chemistry.

And one more...which I have heard dates back to the egyptians and so may be an example of an adaptation, development, or re-statement of much older practices.

7. The crank-shaft is a device which translates rotary into linear motion and is central to much of the machinery in the modern world, not least the internal combustion engine. One of the most important mechanical inventions in the history of humankind, it was created by an ingenious Muslim engineer called al-Jazari to raise water for irrigation. His 1206 Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices shows he also invented or refined the use of valves and pistons, devised some of the first mechanical clocks driven by water and weights, and was the father of robotics. Among his 50 other inventions was the combination lock.

The important point, for me, is not the religion of the people involved, rather it is that where religion leaves people in peace (and where there are no wars being fought by anyone else), and where ancient knowledge is stored and built upon, there we get development...by trial and error but also by that accretion of knowledge...sorta like Babel...

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 08:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To be precise, my link is to a copy of the original article by Paul Vallely writing in the Indpendent in 2006.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 08:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
as the idea rushes east

Cough!  As the idea rushes west

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 08:16:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The general idea is that although the scientific method for discovering truth started to percolate at the end of the middle ages, it took a couple centuries after the renaissance to actually appear ; and another 200 years before it began to be actually used for technological innovation in the industrial world. Industry and Intelligentsia only met at the time of the encyclopedists, by which time the Muslim scientists were a few shoulders away.

Indeed it is amazing to see how long humanity remained, with the tools of technological innovation at its disposal, but not using them ; Alexandria in the time of the Ptolemees was on the brink of it already.

Also, the Black Plague killed over a third of the population, but it was only the catalysor of a crisis that had been brewing for half a century ; a crisis of overpopulation as forest cuttings were leading to diminishing returns ; Eastern Europe was conquered, and the political tensions caused by a contradiction in the centrifugal tendencies of feodalism and the centripetal actions of the monarchs also had a large part in Europe's crisis at the time.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 08:22:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey!  Vast topics unfolding!

The question why they didn't and then they did apply knowledge to industrial processes...and where and why industrial processes arose...vast topics!

I (in my ignorance!) would link it to clockwork.  The ships did the trading, the trading made money, money was abstract but meant real-world benefit in goods and land, the more money the more benefits, the better the clocks the more effective the exchanges (the quicker, I mean; no room for being a week or two out--business went to the fastest ships), and...and...vast topics!

...give those rich people's children time and wealth...centres of learning.  Codify (encyclopedias!) the knowledge in a form that can be taken out of academia...and the church on the wane...so no more having to hide your learning from the clergy.

Interesting (for me!) that the original inventions were few but decisive in terms of speeding up production

The commencement of the Industrial Revolution is closely linked to a small number of innovations, made in the second half of the 18th century:

Textiles - Cotton spinning using Richard Arkwright's water frame. This was patented in 1769 and so came out of patent in 1783. The end of the patent was rapidly followed by the erection of many cotton mills. Similar technology was subsequently applied to spinning worsted yarn for various textiles and flax for linen.
Steam power - The improved steam engine invented by James Watt was initially mainly used for pumping out mines, but from the 1780s was applied to power machines. This enabled rapid development of efficient semi-automated factories on a previously unimaginable scale in places where waterpower was not available.
Iron founding - In the Iron industry, coke was finally applied to all stages of iron smelting, replacing charcoal. This had been achieved much earlier for lead and copper as well as for producing pig iron in a blast furnace, but the second stage in the production of bar iron depended on the use of potting and stamping (for which a patent expired in 1786) or puddling (patented by Henry Cort in 1783 and 1784.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution

Not to mention luddites...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddites

enclosure, politics, kings, queens...

Hey!  My mind now boggleth

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 08:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Upon looking the Medieval university on wikipedia, a thought springs to mind : what Islam in the 700's and Europe at the end of the 18th century had in common was the reapparition and consolidation of cities.

Universities were created by the move of intellectual life, only as an effect of the move of spiritual importance, and thus economic importance (at the time a major economic process was the giving of wealth to spiritual centers), from the monastery typical of the high middle age to the cathedral ; a move from a closed place in the countryside to the center, and often governing body, of the city.

This led to a concentration of intellectuals, and as cities are interrelated in hierachical relations, whereas monasteries were members of a network of equals, further concentration was possible to large cities. The best way to get insightful thought process is to put enough smart people in the same place...

It seems the same process may have been at work in Islam, as the oldest university in the world was founded along a Mosque : University of Al Karaouine

This is how Arab (and Berber and Persian) science is linked with Islam ; because Islam sparkled centralisation and re-urbanization.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 09:00:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
During the long history of the Holy Roman Empire (modern-day Germany and neighbouring countries), dozens of towns and cities obtained local independence. By the late 18th century, their number had slowly been reduced to around 50, but almost all were eliminated ("mediatized") in 1803

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City-state#The_Middle_Ages_and_the_early-modern_era

So...your suggestion is that in the creation of a larger structure than the city state you create the conditions for major advances in human knowledge?

Here is what I have been told: In Egypt (the prototype?) "nation without walls" as opposed to the walled city--birth of systematic knowledge (but what about the indians?  I don't know enough to know); then you had the greek-persian peace (not that I know much about that at all)...then...the romans...(on wikipedia there is a page called greek inventors; no page for roman inventors...; and then the collapse of Rome--lo those many years after...so there be dark ages...science-wise.  Applied sciences maybe.

...and christianity was (according to the gospel of Thomas--the twin) an idea conceived by John the Baptist to link all the "working classes" together, because they were the poor indigenous, but the jews had a policy of separation (chosen people), so...

cough cough cough cough!

...so then we move forward a couple of hundred yeares and islam is constituted and becomes an empire, one language, peace in the lands--but an empire...boom!  Knowledge.

Then the atrophying of that empire...well...I did a search and maybe it was the Mongols that ended the peace love and understanding.

The Mongols began their push into Central Asia and Persia in the early 13th century under Genghis Khan. The cities of Bukhara and Samarkand, later to become part of the Chagatai Khanate, fell to Genghis Khan's armies in 1220. From there it was not difficult to raid Persia, and by 1221 the Persian cities of Merv, Nishapur, and Balkh had fallen. In the inevitable pillaging that followed Mongol attacks, the invaders decimated the population of these regions, sparing only the artisans they deemed useful. The Mongols also uprooted many Muslim graves in their wake, including that of Harun al-Rashid, the 8th century Abbasid caliph who was featured in The Thousand and One Nights fables.

The Muslims inflicted their first defeat on the Mongols in 1221 at the Battle of Parwan, in present-day Afghanistan, under the leadership of Jalal al-Din, son of a Central Asian Muslim ruler. The victory provided a temporary morale boost for the Muslim army, but the Mongols soon regrouped and devastated Jalal's troops later that year. After that initial setback, the Mongols swept through Central Asia into Persia and Iraq. The Persian city of Isfahan fell in 1237, and the Mongols gradually moved closer to Baghdad, the centre of the Abbasid caliphate.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/islam/mongols/ilkhanate.html

...and to tie up the strange knot....

The plague disease, caused by Yersinia pestis, is endemic in populations of ground rodents in central Asia, but it is not entirely clear where the fourteenth-century pandemic started. The most popular theory places the first cases in the steppes of Central Asia, though some speculate that it originated around northern India. From there it was carried east and west by Mongol armies and traders making use of the opportunities offered by the Pax Mongolica (the possibility of free passage within the Mongol Empire) along the Silk Road, and was first exposed to Europe at the trading city of Caffa in the Crimea from which it spread to Sicily and on to the rest of Europe.

Whether or not this hypothesis is accurate, it is clear that several pre-existing conditions such as war, famine, and weather contributed to the severity of the Black Death. A devastating civil war in China between the established Chinese population and the Mongol hordes raged between 1205 and 1353. This war disrupted farming and trading patterns, and led to episodes of widespread famine. The so-called "Little Ice Age" had begun at the end of the thirteenth century. The disastrous weather reached a peak in the first half of the fourteenth century with severe results worldwide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

Boom!

Good to read your words, Linca.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 04:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No-no, what I'm saying is that Islam in the middle east, and the eleventh century in Catholic Europe, saw the reapparition of the city. Whether in the form of the city-state in Northern Italy, or as part of an empire in Islam : the important thing is the concentration of people in the city.

After the Renaissance, the city slowly lost its political independence, but by that time it was ruling the world : in the middle age the nobility was living in its castle in the countryside ; in the 18th century it was living in luxurious hostels in the city.

Indeed the first intellectual evolutions appeared in Mesopotamia, at the time of the Sumerians which seems to have been of the city state ; Greeks were organized along city-state lines but the Hellenistic period (i.e. empires left over after the death of Alexander the Great) had the emperor-as-deity, yet saw the summits of Greek thoughts.

Romans are boring, have little litterature and next to no philosophy and science. It's not amazing the Roman intelligentsia spoke in Greek, not in Latin.

As for the mongols, because they had destroyed the Arab middleman between Europe and China, and instituted peace in Central Asia, they made possible the coming of Europeans in Cambaluk ; i.e. Marco Polo. Europeans who brought back the plague when coming back...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 05:04:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Romans. Didn't they invent concrete? First use of the spherical dome? Lovely aqueducts. Good artists (the house of the mysteries in Pompeii). Fantastic roads.
Romans were builders.
by bil on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:55:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree, the Romans were good builders ; but that's most of it. As for the artists, the thing is, Pompeii has almost all of what's left of Antiquity paintings ; we have nothing left from Greece, which was quite great as the history books tell us. But we're left "admiring" second rate pulp artistry on vases.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 10:22:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I understand it, the romans applied previously known techniques, so they were developers but not inventors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_(architecture)#Dome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acqueduct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road#History

(Hey, you got me thinking...)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 11:15:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, the Black Plague killed over a third of the population, but it was only the catalysor of a crisis that had been brewing for half a century ; a crisis of overpopulation as forest cuttings were leading to diminishing returns ; Eastern Europe was conquered, and the political tensions caused by a contradiction in the centrifugal tendencies of feodalism and the centripetal actions of the monarchs also had a large part in Europe's crisis at the time.
It almost sounds like you're talking about the 21st century ;-)

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:49:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by Laurent GUERBY on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 08:22:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by cam on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 02:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The bane of my life as a cameraman was collimation - keeping the Angenieux 12:1 zoom lenses on 16mm cameras in peak focus, by making the light pass through parallel.

On documentary shoots one might be out in the field days at a time, in all conditions. And the cameras, and lenses, took a bashing. Using a collimator is not so difficult - doing something to correct misalignments was more tricky.

BTW - if you have interchangeable lenses, the very best and finest grease to lubricate the sleeves of lens mounts can be found be rubbing your finger by the side of your nose where the nostril touches the cheek. ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 07:40:18 AM EST
i used to learn music (and yoga) with shawn phillips in 1969, in positano, italy, and he used to swear by the same magic grease for lubing fingertips against a guitar fretboard...

"Music is the pleasure the human mind experiences from counting without being aware that it is counting." - Leibniz .
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 07:47:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. Who is David E. Landes? When I google the term the only links I get are to this site and the SouthSeaRepublic site mentioned in the x-post. Is this actually David S. Landes, who is emeritus professor of economics at Harvard?

  2. Where is Landes advancing the arguements mentioned by the OP? None of the books listed at Amazon for David S. Landes seem to be focused on correcting the popular impression of medieval backwardness.

  3. In what way are these arguments anything more than a mild rehash of what Gies & Gies wrote in 'Cathedral, Forge & waterwheel' over 10 years ago?

Regards
Luke

-- #include witty_sig.h
by silburnl on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 12:00:55 PM EST
David S. Landes (corrected on both sites now). It was from the book Wealth and Poverty of Nations.

cam

Freedom, Liberty, Equity and an Australian Republic

by cam on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 08:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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