Roman and Gaellic Legal Systems

by cam
Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 11:45:18 AM EST

In his military campaigns into Gaul, Julius Caesar used Roman citizenship through service in the Legion as a means to introduce Roman property law; and more importantly displace Celtic tribal law. Citizenship became a mechanism for establishing Roman legal control in conquered Gaul.


The interface between the English and Eoran in 1788 wasn't racial, it was legal. Conflict was essentially over two different legal systems and the northern Eoran, according to Keneally, attempted to integrate the English into their legal system through the ritualised spearing of Arthur Phillip by Willemering. I think Keneally's argument has a great deal of merit.

The Aboriginal peoples had property laws, and their legal system, despite being non-secular, had very violent ramifications for those that broke the law. Violence is in the eye of the beholder, while the English were shocked at how indirect the Eoran blood-debt system could be, the English were just as violent and showed no qualms about hanging or lashing an individual over a property crime.

Roman property laws followed the principle of pater-familias. The highest ranking male in the family has absolute power, including life and death, over all individuals and property that the family owns. This includes the property of married sons, etc. The absolute power didn't end when a child became an adult as it does in a modern legal system.

There were exceptions in later Rome, for instance soldiers were excepted from pater-familias by Augustus, and could dispose of their pay and booty as they deemed fit. The Roman Twelve Tablets, which was the first attempt to place customary law into writing, also absolved a son from patra-potestus if he was sold by the pater-familias more than three times.

By Caesar granting Roman citizenship to Gaellic soldiers in the legions, any property they owned fell under Roman law, and as the leading male in their family, courtesy of their citizenship, that land passed from under Gaellic law into Roman law - dissipating the control of the Celtic kings, oligarchs and nobles.

From Colin Wells' The Roman Empire:

It is clear from Caesar's own account that he profited from and exploited divisions between pro and anti-Roman factions in most [Gallic] tribes.

The main benefit of citizenship in Gaul will have been to bring the new citizen under the Roman law of property, which probably meant that they could now be held wholly and in perpetuity land which probably under Celtic tribal law belonged to the tribe, although in some way assigned to the chief or one of the other tribal nobility.

Centuries later, the coming of English law, first to Wales, and later to the Scottish highlands, produced a similar effect.

It has been common in agrarian systems for the nobility, or those with access to legislative power, have exploited so-called public land, for personal benefit. The Roman Senators in later centuries exploited land held by Rome and would not give it up, a more recent Australian example, is the squattocracy in NSW during the early and middle 19thC.

Caesar's granting of citizenship to Gaellic legionaries and nobles who supported his cause, appears to be a policy of dissipating the economic, and hence political power, of the Gaellic nobility.

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of ProgressiveHistorians, a community site dedicated to the intersection of history and politics, I would be honored if you would cross-post this excellent diary there.

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by Nonpartisan on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 01:11:43 PM EST
What I think is interesting is how it isn't very hard to see Cheney proposing an extension of the Roman law of citizenship into US law.

Illegals will only be able to become bona fide citizens if the enlist in the army.

Then any person intending citizenship will have to enlist.

You can see that then becoming the Robert Heinlen/Starship Troopers vision of voting citizenship only becoming conferred by "service", however constituted, for residents.

And, of course, there's all those Columbians fighting for the growth of Dick's wallet in Iraq.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 02:31:59 PM EST
Well apart from the fact that most of the cabinet, and most of their supporters would be banned from becoming citizens.

I'm tired of this backslapping, aint humanity great BS, we're a virus with shoes Bill Hicks
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 03:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh I'm sure "service" will be defined in such a way as to protect rich people's kids.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 04:02:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We will have to make sure you get presented with the International big cynics medalion in gold ;-)

I'm tired of this backslapping, aint humanity great BS, we're a virus with shoes Bill Hicks
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 05:29:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Service" in Heinlein was not restricted to military service either, and people were supposed to have a measure of choice about their assignment.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 06:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ironically, the current all volunteer military concept was sold to the American public following the Vietnam War, just when everyone was sick of seeing their loved ones drafted and sent to war.   The "all volunteer military" is one of my pet peeves, because it ensures that the rich kids never have to serve, while children of the poor and middle classes seek refuge in the military as a viable alternative to paying the expenses of advanced education (a military perk) and steady employment.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 10:34:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I sometimes wonder if the US education system is left to wither in order to encourage the poor and middle classes to sign up and actually get an education

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 7th, 2007 at 01:09:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, by education in the military I meant to say that the Gov. sponsors a savings program for military members that allows them to accumulate money for university.  They could do without the life experience education you speak about.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 04:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if the proposed legislation dealing with the illegal population passes and the illegals subsequently become residents (not citizens), I assume they will have to register for the military draft (not currently being used).  If the draft is activated, they could be forced into the military like any other resident.  Only officers must be citizens.  

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 10:39:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pleased to see Heinlein fans here.  I started reading his "trash" at about age 10 (1956) and once owned a copy of each of his books, which I donated to a local library 2 yrs ago.

To the point:  Caesar's granting of citizenship to Gaellic legionaries and nobles who supported his cause, appears to be a policy of dissipating the economic, and hence political power, of the Gaellic nobility.

I understand he had killed 6 million Gael before he got to this point.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 at 10:28:59 PM EST
6 million sounds way to high a number.

My Copy of Livi-Bacci´s A concise history of world population gives the population of Europe (excluding the areas in the cold war USSR) to 31 million around year 0. With a similar distribution of population as today the Gael of the time should have had a population of around 4 million...

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Jun 7th, 2007 at 09:22:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can't say 6 million for sure.  I read that somewhere and was amazed.  I also read Tamerlane killed 6 million Indians during one campaign in the Hindu Kush.  Can't verify that either, but believe that was from a well-known book on Central Asia.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 04:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
6 million sounds like a Holocaust comparison. Maybe what was meant is a similar population ratio as Hitler in Poland. At any rate, Caesar was a butcher, who proudly detailed how his troops slaughtered entire tribes (including women and children), but modern admirers of his military genius forget to mention that.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 4th, 2007 at 06:52:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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