Global Model -- Factors

by ATinNM
Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 04:57:49 AM EST

This diary was sparked by Jerome's diary Credit markets: "Don't panic", they beg and the ensuring discussion.

The bursting of the global liquidity bubble is only one of the affective factors the globe will be facing over the next umpty-umph years.  Given my -- obsession? - with Models I thought it might prove interesting if we put our collective heads together and compiled a list of other affective factors and trends that we will be facing over the next 20 years.

From the diaries - whataboutbob


Without any attempt at completeness here is my list to initialize discussion (Note.  Jerome's diary is deemed included):

  •  Global Climate Change
  •  Rise of drug resistant bacteriological diseases -- TB, STDs, & etc
  •  Rise of drug resistant viral disease -- such as AIDS, Bird Flu, & etc
  •  Peak Oil
  •  Over-population
  •  Over-utilization of natural resources: collapse of fish stocks, growing limitation of potable water supplies, & etc
  • Decline in agricultural production vs. population growth

On a more cheerful note ...

  •  The establishment of an ad-hoc global communication network -- the Internet being one aspect of such
  •  The increase in knowledge and implementation of 'alternative' agriculture
  •  The growing interest in 'sustainability'
  •  The growing awareness of the need to solve fundamental problems -- the reception of Al Gore's 'Unpleasant Truth' campaign
  •  The existence of a large number of people with technical, scientific, and other kinds of knowledge (e.g., 'Framing,') that could be deployed to tackle the issues
  •  The existence of known, or knowable, 'previous solutions' that can be applied

My goal here is to 'brainstorm' and compile as complete a list as possible.  Nothing you can think of should be considered irrelevant, non-affective, stupid, silly, dumb, or too obvious to mention.  
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I now have to hie myself hence and 'affective factor,' with joint compound, a ceiling.  

Jag gillar lite målade hästar, ge mig massor av dem
by ATinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 12:49:50 PM EST
Sorry for the lack of response -- the real world kept tripping me up.

Jag gillar lite målade hästar, ge mig massor av dem
by ATinNM on Sun Aug 12th, 2007 at 02:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mass migrations of people due to economic effects of globalisation (I believe this may hit before Peak Oil.)
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:06:38 PM EST
I believe it already has.

One thing that I don't think that the developed world is preparted for is that available labor is about to crest in many areas.

Countries like China and Mexico saw their demographic peak in the 1960s to 1980s, and now they are going cease being active exporters of labor in the near future.

Consider again Mexico, and this graphic from the wiki article on the Demographics of Mexico.

Notice that Mexican population growth rates fell from a peak in the 1970's and 1980's. The current group of immigrants from Mexico largely fall into this cohort.  As this demographic crests, there is going to be a smaller number of immigrants from Mexico to the US.

While overpopulation is perceived as a huge problem, the impact of aging has largely been ignored.  Italy, Spain, most of Eastern Europe, all face rapid ageing with the arrival of the "crest" generation, and the subsequent "graying" of their populations.  Even countries like Iran and Tunisia will soon fall in this group.  

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 10:54:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's true that China is racing to get rich before it gets old. India however is only just reaching the wave that China is currently riding. Hence the fallback will be pushed back a few years.

However, there's another wave of migration coming. It's about what happens when people finally act on the realisation that various cities (e.g. Detroit and Sheffield and possibly even Solingen) are just not going anywhere in the modern economy.

What exactly will happen I don't really know, but I suspect that these cities are destined to become small, possibly semi-prosperous market towns in the middle of a rural hinterland. And that population decrease won't all come about through ageing...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 02:38:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
when an ideology has failed -- such as Infinite Growth Capitalism -- there has to be a mass disenchantment and repudiation of that ideology before its associated methods and practises are abandoned and its failures accurately identified as structural failures/consequences rather than random misfortunes, exceptional cases, or the result of sabotage :-)

on the asset side of ATinNM's ledger we might therefore count all the forms of disaffection, dissent, and deviation from neoliberal capitalist dogma:  renegade economists, local currency movements, slow-foodists, businesspeople who refuse to accept maximally rapid growth as a success indicator, etc.

on the deficit side, the persistence of cornucopian fantasy and its undeniable appeal to the eternally childish elements in the human heart.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 08:45:22 PM EST
It was Einstein who said that problems can't be solved by the same mode of thinking (Denkweise) that produced them. In 2027, there will be wholly new approaches to think about the global economy, its problems and their solutions - which we can't really predict now.

/This "series of tubes" intrawebs thingy might play a role.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 08:52:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The interwebs thing will never take off. People can communicate all they want on their electronic telephones.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 03:59:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, some more "factors" -- some in the realm of synergy or feedback loops...

  • heavier weather disrupting sea, land, and air transport, rendering longhaul trade more risky and costly (in a sense negating a century's worth of "flattening the planet" and abolishing distance through fossil-fueled and increasingly frenetic transport).  many possible knock-on effects:  revitalisation of regional trade and production could be a plus, but increased difficulty of reaching distressed populations for rescue or emergency support would be a negative outcome.

  • accelerating wealth concentration enabling elites to use these obscenely concentrated resources to insulate themselves from negative effects (the Bush rancho/refuge in Paraguay?), thus adding to their general uselessness and disconnectedness from reality. negative feedback.

  • tendency for unstable and dangerous times to engender revanchist and fundamentalist sectarianism, both political and religious:  expect an increasing popularity of prophetic cults, crusades, messiahs, armed sectarian enclaves, etc. as general fear, insecurity, unpredictability, and (for most people) poverty intensify.  expect revanchist backlashes on every front.

  • tendency for entrenched elites to continue applying the failed model to changing circumstances (generals always fighting the last war):  expect the industrialised West to cling doggedly to the heavy/gargantuan technologies that are sinking it -- whether in the realm of war, energy, architecture, food production or whatever.  expect a futile burst of resource expenditure on Yesterday's Technology and an intensification of surveillance and authoritarian fantasy as elites strive for a sense of control during uncontrollable change.

  • expect a round of frantic scapegoating as elites and those loyal to the old paradigm seek to blame systemic failures on "foreign influences" and/or "treachery from within".  the last few years of constitution-shredding in the US and the rise of the surveillance state in the UK strike me as symptomatic.

  • expect a round of frantic landgrabbing as the wealthy try to figure out where the safest or most productive regions will be in a time of climatic extrema, and buy up all the real estate they can in those areas;  expect them to employ the customary chicanery and violence to evict the current owners or inhabitants.


The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 09:02:47 PM EST
This is a point which you raise often, and on which I'd like to see more numbers - long distance vs local. I am not convinced at all that long distance transport is energy inefficient - shipping is probably the most energy efficient more of transport of all (it is somewhat more polluting because ships use horribly low quality fuel oil, but that's another issue), and the same goes on land for rail and barge transport.

The most expensive part of transportation is the last mile - or, more precisely, the last 5 miles, from wholesalers to individuals via retailers. This can be done by big box retailing (all the 5 mile transport done by individuals - pretty ineffective), by local retailing/markets (energy efficient wholesale transport to stores, plus last mile done by individuals - the advantage beign that this last mile can be done on foot).

Eliminating the long range transport, as you suggest, does little to resolve the different options for the "5-mile gap" - if you have local producers, but sellers and buyers meet up in a market to which everybody comes by car, it's probably even worse than the bigbox model (from the transport efficiency pov only). Unless your notion of "local" only extends to producers that can be reached by foot/bike, it's the retail model that matters, not just the point of origin of goods.

But I'd like to see more info on this.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Aug 12th, 2007 at 08:51:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was arguing for meteorological/climatic impacts at least as much as fuel cost:  flooding in the UK has disrupted train travel in a fairly wide region, the US lost (or at least sustained serious damage to) one of its premiere port facilities when Katrina trashed New Orleans;  extreme conditions at sea make it more risky for even the largest contships to venture out, and container losses increase with heavy weather;  planes are grounded in extreme conditions of flood, wind, and cold.  Heavy weather can wash out roads and destroy bridges.  There is an enormous hidden cost in infrastructure and rolling (or floating or flying) stock in long haul trade, plus the "deficit economy" usurious model of financing that means such resources become loss centres the minute they are grounded.

However, I'll respond off the cuff to the claim for "efficiency" of long haul transport:

No mode of transport is as efficient as not transporting stuff unnecessarily.  We tend to measure "efficiency" of transport by T tonnes moved M miles for G gallons of fuel, but we never ask whether the transportation of the items in question was sensible or necessary.  Those G gallons of fuel (and a lot of knock-on costs) would be saved by not transporting the stuff in the first place.  I can argue that my Prius (this is a thought experiment, I don't own one) is more efficient than any other car, but if I drive it to the mailbox and back, that's still inefficient and a waste of irreplaceable resources.

Those last few miles to the house (for anything that cannot be grown or made in the home or the neighbourhood) cannot be avoided -- that is the fixed term;  nor is a giant centralised WalMart any improvement on truck delivery -- how is it more efficient for 100 consumers from Somewhereville to drive their individual gas-guzzlers 40 miles to the regional bigbox, rather than for one big truck to drive the 40 miles from the railhead at Centreburg to the high street in Somewhereville?   This gets us back to the paradox of "economy of scale" -- that such economies are understood only in terms of an implicit cost of transport, and that cost during our lifetimes has been risible.  This is about to change.

And I reiterate that a lot of agricultural produce is travelling not by relatively benign rail or sea [though the benignity of those modes can be argued;  I doubt that the now-extinct Yangtse River dolphin would agree that water transport is low-impact] but by air:  flowers, vegetables, meat, seafood, anything that has to arrive fresh.  Hanging out at the air freight terminal of your local airport could be a real eye opener, if you think that luggage is all that's underneath the passenger compartment on both long and short haul flights :-)  the UA air freight terminal in San Francisco, last time I was there (in a courier capacity for big pallets of scientific equipment) stank of fish, brussel sprouts, and slightly decayed orchids.  Live crabs and lobsters twitched hopelessly in tough polyethylene bags.  Soft fruit was stacked in crates.  It was like the Blade Runner version of Billingsgate Market, the biotic wealth of the region unitised and barcoded amid the pervasive perfume of jet fuel and burnt rubber under the scary actinic glare of the arc lights.

But regardless...  predictable weather conditions are a precondition for low-risk long haul transport, and those days are over.  The good ol' continental weather summary-charts-by-season (NOAA publications) with their reassuring little compass-rose wind vector annotations, are history.  Losses and delays are going to increase, and this increases the margin at which it is "worth it| to ship goods.  High risk and tough conditions for ground and sea mean shipping either (a) very high value and durable goods, as in the spice trade, or (b) rough stuff that travels as ballast when you're deadheading home again, as in coal and gravel.  For air, apply (a) but not (b)...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue Aug 14th, 2007 at 08:56:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do me a favour and explain how this is an argument with Jérôme's point? I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think that shipping peas from Kenya to Dublin by plane isn't gross insanity. The argument that both he and I have is with the idea that long-distance transport will stop rather than become somewhat more expensive (for sea and rail) to far more expensive (for air). We'll still ship bananas but not peas.

On a not-entirely unattached point, it occurred to me recently that I'll be impressed by the 100 mile diet folks when they do  it in March or April, not August.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 14th, 2007 at 09:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
two reviews of books about 100-mile diet experiments carried on for at least 12 months, two different families, one in BC one in US.

I eat locally (90 percent) year round, but living in Central CA with thriving farmers' markets nearby makes this easier than it would be in other regions.  I'll be reading the book about the BC family with intense interest, as that's where I'm (knock on wood) headed.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue Aug 14th, 2007 at 09:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you're forgetting about price and volume...

If bananas, oranges, pineapples, grapefruit, and so on become very expensive to ship (increased losses, higher risk, higher energy cost) then fewer people will be able to afford them.  When my parents were children, a navel orange from the South of Europe (or further afield) was a special treat for Christmas only.  Only the very wealthy ate oranges on a regular basis.

If we return to any similar economy, it won't make a lot of sense to transport tropical fruit in the kind of bulk that is now considered normal.  And that means re-calculating the payload of whatever transports are still running:  you have to be able to sell a sufficient percentage of your cargo (after spoilage and losses) to make back the expenses of transport, maintenance, crews, etc.

I suspect it will mean (I hope!) the end of the insanity of Canada exporting almost as many tonnes of apples to the US as the US exports to Canada.

I suspect this means more fractally mixed cargoes of higher value, with fewer transports leaving (and of those, possibly fewer arriving).  Concentrated cargoes of high value, btw, increase the incentive for piracy...

I like bananas and grapefruit as much as the next person, and grapefruit at least will grow within 400 miles of me.  But I don't eat fresh bananas any more.  They are air freight from S Am, and although I can't literally taste it, they might as well be marinated in kerosene...  kind of spoils the pleasure of eating, like finding a human fingerbone in the soup.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue Aug 14th, 2007 at 09:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
obligatory graph

maybe it is already starting?

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Wed Aug 15th, 2007 at 05:19:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Concentrated cargoes of high value, btw, increase the incentive for piracy...

Arr, these be mighty good oranges!

Sorry, just got some Pythonesque picture of pirates boarding a freight plane to get the fruit.

I think bananas are shipped by boat to Sweden, have to look into it. Only eat ecologically grown of course, as you can otherwise almost taste the blood and pseticides. Or at least I can, after hearing a lecture on it.

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 09:14:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It was like the Blade Runner version of Billingsgate Market, the biotic wealth of the region unitised and barcoded amid the pervasive perfume of jet fuel and burnt rubber under the scary actinic glare of the arc lights.

wow, just wow...

i think of those peasants turfed off their ancestral land where they grew beans and corn for millennia, and then being paid a pittance to pick agribiz luxury items that end up, often unbought, in euro supermarkets.

or forced by poverty to grow maryjane or coca in the hills, risking imprisonment or death to simply survive.

like the italians are ever really going to get a taste for rambutans...lol!

"These days, there's nothing more ridiculous than the truth." Leonard Pitts Jr

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 15th, 2007 at 06:04:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Alas, even in Euroland, rail transport is declining -- from a small share to an even smaller one -- in favour of more hazardous and less fuel-efficient big-rig truck transport.

Posing the question of road security must also involve dealing with the crucial problem of trucks. Every driver on the auto route is confronted, each day more so, with agonizing "walls of trucks," even though those roads remain safer than national roads. Although truck drivers involved in accidents are less often drunk than automobile drivers, apart from the fact that a single wrecked truck can block an auto route and thousands of automobile drivers for several hours, these crashes are more deadly: with a little over 6 percent of the kilometers traveled (2006 statistics), the "big rigs" account for 9.6 percent of the vehicles involved in fatal accidents. Some 14.5 percent of those killed are in an accident with a heavy rig. For the most part, these victims are not the occupants of trucks.

Yet in France, as in the European Union as a whole, the road's share of freight transport keeps on growing: for France, the figure has gone from 75.3 percent in 1994 to 80.5 percent in 2005 (Eurostat statistics). To allow the number of heavy trucks launched on the auto route to grow this way without restraint is madness, from the point of view of road security as well as from the perspective of the fight against pollution and global warming.

Le Monde Aug 14 07

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 07:38:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A host 'wants to' evolve resistance to parasites while the parasite 'wants to' keep the host from evolving.  Those who have (grossly) benefited from the post-WW2 economic, cultural, social, & etc. structures will attempt, with all the means they can use via all the power they have accumulated, the continuation of those structures.  

Jag gillar lite målade hästar, ge mig massor av dem
by ATinNM on Sun Aug 12th, 2007 at 02:22:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd add copyright as a negative, but the free sharing of knowledge as a positive.

But that's a whole new can of worms that we have tried to open here at ET a few times ;.)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 02:21:33 AM EST
racial and gender equality

cooperation not competition
parallel not serial
poetry not war

The power of laughter

The recognition that a 'religious' experience is not religious at all, but the proper functioning of an inspired human.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 07:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Circular, organic, concentric, rounded...

Fractal growth:  in worker strikes, public demonstrations, (about economics, politics, ecology)more localized and much more often worldwide, until the perception is one of (full circle) global revolt.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 02:12:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see this list as examples of what DeAnander wrote:

when an ideology has failed -- such as Infinite Growth Capitalism -- there has to be a mass disenchantment and repudiation of that ideology before its associated methods and practices are abandoned

Interestingly, cultures that have regularly experienced severe weather 'challenges' - e.g., the Scandinavian Countries, the northern tier of US states - tend to put a higher value on cooperation than those cultures without - e.g., the southern EU countries and US states.  

Jag gillar lite målade hästar, ge mig massor av dem

by ATinNM on Sun Aug 12th, 2007 at 02:33:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The weather is part of it - there is a historical cultural imprinting that you have to prepare for winter or you die.

But I believe the more important imprint is that simple one of agrarian life. Scandinavia and Finland have a history of smallholdings. This is probably true of the northern US states also - I mean family farms.

Cooperation is a prerequisite for such communities of smaller independent farms - for the sharing of goods (food), equipment and labour.

The 'agrarian ethic' still exists in Scandinavia and Finland, because they skipped the social fragmentation of the Industrial Revolution, and, to a large extent the industrialization of agriculture. There are no great plains here. There are fewer economies of scale.

Many food combines in Finland are actually cooperatives, owned by the farmers. The Raisio Group is a good example. (in English also). Although a publicly quoted plc, the controlling shareholders are in primary production, processing and retailing. The whole chain.

Raisio is possibly best known for the cholesterol-reducing Benecol oil.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Aug 12th, 2007 at 04:38:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll believe the proponents of copyright sharing really mean what they say when they're all willing to work completely for free themselves - and not just trying to persuade others to do it.

Until then it's difficult to take the lamentations seriously.

Of course it doesn't help that information sharing != copyright != practical utilisation != knowledge engineering != economic value.

These are all different processes - and just a very small selection of concepts that are relevant.

It's one of my (many) criticisms of the free-copyright pirates that they're reducing a complex set of only marginally related social transactions to a single issue they can cheerlead.

This is exactly what the economists do, and viewers reading this at home will understand why that hasn't exactly been one of humanity's prouder moments.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 08:47:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you defeated your strawman convincingly.

I'll believe the proponents of copyright sharing really mean what they say when they're all willing to work completely for free themselves - and not just trying to persuade others to do it.

Since proponents of copyright limitation generally argue that you can make money of what is today copyrighted without copyright, this statement only makes sense to those that are previously convinced that copyright limitation is nonsense.

Similarly, I think this would make a whole lot of sense for Cato liberatarians:

I'll believe the proponents of taxation really mean what they say when they're all willing to work completely for free themselves - and not just trying to persuade others to do it.

But for the non-Cato liberatarians it does not make sense, as it is a strawman.

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 11:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the re-definition of the nation state in the Middle East and Europe

the emergence of a multipolar  world once again

the decline of American supremacy in the military, cultural and financial worlds

by zoe on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 05:24:31 AM EST
Unforeseen technical, philosophical and ideological step changes.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 06:25:23 AM EST
  • Transparency of all public bodies (including IP-free publishing of all public-funded data, methodologies and accounting).
  • Effective right to migrate
by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 08:05:06 AM EST
http://maxspeak.org/mt/archives/003233.html

Read the comments, it's all about infinite gross in a finite world.

by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 08:27:24 AM EST
The rise of supranational EU- like entities worldwide.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 08:59:01 AM EST
Rise of China and India in wealth, influence and power.
by A swedish kind of death on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 09:17:57 AM EST
I think that we may be getting this wrong.

I think that China is headed down the Japanese path, and that in 50 years the big story may be how the combination of the demograhic crest created by the one child policy, and the shortening of lifespan as the impact of a Western lifestyle, pollution, and simply being worked to death collided to create a collapse in the Chinese population as the age cohorts born in the 1960-1980 time period die in their 40-50s from cancer, cardiovascular disease, etc.

And god only knows the impact that AIDS/HIV will have globally.  I think that China is only begining to confront this, and that infection rates may be much higher than believed.  All of this leads to the possibility that instead of talking about a China of 1.5 billion in 2050, we may be talking about a nation with little more than half that population, and serious environmental problems that shorten lifespans.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 11:23:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not sure what time perspective we are dealing with, I figured more in the 20 year perspective then the 50.

Of course wealth, influence and power is very much relative factors, so it depends on where we think the rest of the world will be in the same time span.

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 12:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Change can be rapid and unsettling.

Who in 1987 would have seen the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and the collapse of the Russian population coming?

I think that China faces a lot of the same trends. Low birth rates and rising death rates from pollution and poor lifestyle.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 12:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is quite possible that China will convulse the way the Soviet Union did, but at the same time it's not at all clear that it will and it seems that it's that societal convulsion which propelled the Russian demographic trends.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 02:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The USSR died because it tried to turn itself into a military society but lacked the managerial talents needed to do it successfully.

While the Reagan-ites claim it was economic warfare that killed the USSR, I don't think it was an economic failure so much as a political one. The USSR had the resources, it certainly had the people and the expertise - but its management class was ossified, geriatric, and frankly stupid.

The post-1990 crime wave killed more people than the USSR did - not so much because of deliberate violence as neglect and indifference.

So that should be more of an immediate worry in the West. While we're sweating about the elites, I think that if their stranglehold slackens it's just as likely that they'll either be eaten or removed by much nastier predators.

The rule of law isn't going to be reliable in a scarce economy, any more than it has been in Russia.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 08:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
serious environmental problems that shorten lifespans  applies to most of the world at this point.

one study estimates 40 pct of premature mortality worldwide is attributable to the externalised costs of industrial capitalism e.g. pollution, deforestation, toxicity...

heart and arterial disease is a leading cause of premature mortality in the US and here's a recent study making a pretty good case that fossil combustion byproducts (air pollution) are a direct cause of arterial disease as well as various lung disorders.

to put it very bluntly:  wallowing in the p*ss and sh*t of machines is no more healthy for us than wallowing in the p*ss and sh*t of our own or our livestock's making.  it ain't hygienic.  and it leads to either shortened lifespans or an enormous medical burden on the society as we try to preserve length of life in defiance of our own autopathy.  when you figure that our current heavily industrialised and chemical medical system only adds to the emissions, the toxic body burden, and the climate destabilisation problem, it looks to me like a classic investment trap.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 04:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you want a few suggestions from the wacky end, I'll include these, even though they can't seriously be modelled:

Deus Ex Machina energy breakthroughs (desktop fusion?)
Alien technology transfer/sharing
Successful significant human mutations
Successful significant animal mutations
Bird flu or other plagues
New religious movements (First Church of Gaia?)
New political movements with more effective and 'sticky' narratives than we have now (this is probably inevitable, I think)
Significant leaders (for good or ill)
Community action (self-organising farming and/or defence units)
Nuclear war - limited or not
Bio-war (see plagues)
Biological terrorism (currently terrorists seem too stupid to craft a plague, but that could change)
Massive geophysical events (large scale eruptions, LA earthquake, other massive earth movements)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 09:29:34 PM EST
I don't know Europe, but long-distance truck transport in the U.S. is a function of a Catch-22.  You may know that a lot of trailer and container loads are shipped by rail for the long-haul.  The equilibrium curve is bounded by the fact that the rail system in this country is so out-dated that delivery delays are expected.  Out-dated means: 1) single tracks with the occasional side-track for opposing trains to pass one another; 2) inferior equipment; and 3) second-rate maintenance.  The Catch-22 is that the shippers can't rely on the railroads, so they under-utilize the system; then the railroads can't justify improvements, because they don't make money.  (Of course, that is merely the superficial explanation and doesn't begin to recognize the corporate/government agenda viz. energy policy.)

Point is that we have the model for the long-haul system, but not the infrastructure.  And that is a national problem.  Interestingly, many localities are implementing local rail systems for public transport, as an alternative to the automobile commute.  I predict that people in the U.S. will soon generalize the solution and move toward a modern rail system.

Different subject - what do y'all think about Japan as a model for many solutions of the sort that you are discussing: rural/local production and distribution, renewable (and nuclear) energy systems, good balance between rail and truck transport, emphasis on energy efficiency, strong controls on pollution sources?

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 01:13:04 AM EST
Welcome, paul! even if I can´t answer your question.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 03:04:57 PM EST
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