Thursday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris
Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 01:01:08 PM EST

Today brings us the sad news that regular Matt in NYC has passed away. I am stunned and saddened by this loss. Although we never met, this hurts.

This is nevertheless an open thread.


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It is very sad. Matt was one of early members of Daily Kos.
To change the subject, Jerome, what do you know about Paris Bas' action today to suspend three of its asset backed funds. It's certainly rattled the worldwide markets. Also today, the ECB made a record injection of euros into the markets.
I am somewhat concerned since I have my life's savings in 3 French Assurance de Vie contracts, in euros which are called guarantied funds.
I assume that Assurances de Vie contracts are not the same as ABS funds.


Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 01:13:46 PM EST
Jerome. Ignore my question. I see you' already written about it.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 02:11:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From my reading of the press (I work for BNP Paribas but I don't work where these funds are managed - here  I talk only for myself not my employer), those three funds were not marketed for "retail" clients so my guess these were only bought for other banks, hedge funds and "private banking" (ie rich people).

I also read there was no downgrade or negative view of the papers bought by the funds (AAA and AA) by rating agencies (for what they're worth...), just no liquidity so the usual technique of valuation by looking at the transactions don't work hence the one month valuation freeze (and not closure of the funds).

You can put lots of thing in your assurance vie portfolio, but funds labelled "100% capital guaranti" will not go under 100% so no problem for you (only risk if the seller of the fund cheats and the management company blows out but that's really really low).

From Felix Salmon:

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2007/08/09/bnp-paribas-funds-a-non-story-with-big -consequences


BNP Paribas Funds: A Non-Story With Big Consequences

Why all the fuss about these BNP Paribas funds? They're long-only funds which own some very illiquid paper, and as a result they're impossible to value accurately. If someone wants to withdraw money from a fund, you first have to know how much the fund is worth. Since the fund managers don't know how much the funds are worth, they're not letting people withdraw money until they do know how much the funds are worth. There is no chance of the funds being wiped out, like the Bear Stearns hedge funds were, since they're long only.

And yet stock markets around the world are falling in response to this non-news, there's a flight to quality, and BNP Paribas stock has dropped over 5% - despite the fact that it's other investors' money we're talking about, here, not BNP Paribas's own. All I can conclude from this is that the market is very, very nervous, and will sell on just about anything.

BusinessWeek on the ECB action:

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/aug2007/gb2007089_266456.htm


[...]
Another, bigger, shoe dropped later Thursday. The European Central Bank, in a move to calm market nerves and enhance liquidity in the European money markets, said it planned "a liquidity-providing tender of one-day securities" totaling €94.8 billion ($130.5 billion)--basically, an injection of available funds into euro zone money markets to soothe frayed market nerves.
[...]

Note that this is more in absolute term than what was done afte WTC attack (70 billion euros) but a tad less by some relative measure.

So it's huge, I guess the ECB want the banks to buy some of the junk papers themselves and put them in some closet until the mess is sorted out and "normal" valuations are happening again (there will be losses of course, but not 100%).

by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 02:13:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for your explanation Laurent. Not being French I don't fully understand Assurance de Vie in Euros. I always considered them like high grade mutual funds that invested in AAA and AA bonds. Perhaps I'm a bit naive. I saw the dollar crash coming several years ago and since I live in euros I sold all my dollars and I felt the way I went had the most advantages, including non taxability of  the interest.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 02:27:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I posted my answer on Jerome diary too:

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/8/9/123641/8918#3

Assurance Vies have two kind of funds, you have "unité de compte" and "euros". If your advisor didn't explain the differences clearly, you still have wikipedia:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assurance_vie


On distingue deux types de contrat :

    * Les contrats en euros ;
    * Les contrats multisupport, qui comportent à la fois un fonds en euros et des unités de compte.

Les sommes versées sur un contrat en euros, tout comme celles placées sur le fonds en euros d'un contrat multisupport, sont garanties par l'assureur : elles ne peuvent pas baisser et sont revalorisées chaque année d'un intérêt ; la participation aux bénéfices (parfois composée d'un taux minimum garanti connu d'avance et d'un taux variable connu en fin d'année). En contrepartie de cette sécurité, les gains sont généralement limités.

Les unités de compte disponibles sur les contrats multisupport peuvent être des actifs financiers de tout type (le plus souvent des fonds en actions ou obligataires). C'est l'assureur qui détermine les unités de compte proposées pour chaque contrat. Les sommes investies sur les unités de compte ne sont pas garanties et présentent donc un risque pour le souscripteur.

"unités de compte" funds can be either 100% capital garantis or not, it depends on each fund and you have to read carefully the documentation available on AMF web site, the "marketing" documentation is usually not enough (I hate that).

Being invested in AAA or AA stuff is not a "100% guaranti" of no loss.

Last detail: even in "100% capital garanti" unité de comptes funds, the fund value can go below 100 before maturity, the "garanti" is only valid for the maturity date of the fund so you may have to wait until maturity to get back your 100 (and of course you lost the "risk free" rate which is about 4-5% per year these days, what you would have earned on a euro fund or a longer term deposit).

by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 02:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My old brain has just been jogged about Matt in NYC after reading Jerome's comment on Daily Kos. Somehow I associated him with Daily Kos and not ET but now that I've gone and looked at his old comments, of course.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 02:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whenever someone dies, I always think of this passage, from Le petit prince.

-Les gens ont des étoiles qui ne sont pas les mêmes. Pour les uns, qui voyagent, les étoiles sont des guides. Pour d'autres elles ne sont rien que de petites lumières. Pour d'autres qui sont savants elles sont des problèmes. Pour mon businessman elles étaient de l'or. Mais toutes ces étoiles-là elles se taisent. Toi, tu auras des étoiles comme personne n'en a...
-Que veux-tu dire?

-Quand tu regarderas le ciel, la nuit, puisque j'habiterai dans l'une d'elles, puisque je rirai dans l'une d'elles, alors ce sera pour toi comme si riaient toutes les étoiles. Tu auras, toi, des étoiles qui savent rire!

Et il rit encore.

-Et quand tu seras consolé (on se console toujours) tu seras content de m'avoir connu. Tu seras toujours mon ami. Tu auras envie de rire avec moi. Et tu ouvriras parfois ta fenêtre, comme ça, pour le plaisir... Et tes amis seront bien étonnés de te voir rire en regardant le ciel. Alors tu leur diras: "Oui, les étoiles, ça me fait toujours rire!" Et ils te croiront fou. Je t'aurai joué un bien vilain tour...

Et il rit encore.

-Ce sera comme si je t'avais donné, au lieu d'étoiles, des tas de petits grelots qui savent rire...

(translation)

"All men have the stars," he answered, "but they are not the same things for different people. For some, who are travelers, the stars are guides. For others they are no more than little lights in the sky. For others, who are scholars, they are problems. For my businessman they were wealth. But all these stars are silent. You--you alone--will have the stars as no one else has them--"
"What are you trying to say?"

"In one of the stars I shall be living. In one of them I shall be laughing. And so it will be as if all the stars were laughing, when you look at the sky at night . . . You--only you--will have stars that can laugh!"

And he laughed again.

"And when your sorrow is comforted (time soothes all sorrows) you will be content that you have known me. You will always be my friend. You will want to laugh with me. And you will sometimes open your window, so, for that pleasure . . . And your friends will be properly astonished to see you laughing as you look up at the sky! Then you will say to them, 'Yes, the stars always make me laugh!' And they will think you are crazy. It will be a very shabby trick that I shall have played on you . . ."

And he laughed again.

"It will be as if, in place of the stars, I had given you a great number of little bells that knew how to laugh . . ."




"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 01:23:31 PM EST
for me it is "et si c'est par la fin que tout commençait ?" same book. this is the inscription on my son's tombstone.


Mais c'est un scandâââle!!
by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 01:26:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
was a hell of a good person.

I will regret not having met him at one of future meet-ups.

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 01:27:02 PM EST
Just poked my head in to say that I'm still tied up with visitors, and I read this about Matt. I can only repeat what I just said on DKos, that every exchange I had with Matt was a pleasure.

Feeling choked.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 01:28:19 PM EST
I only had the one exchange that I recall.  Can't remember what I wrote, but he wrote this:

A few years ago, I had a rather severe case of pneumonia, the sickest I've ever been in my life. Before that I had always pushed myself to do at least 5 mi an hour, which is really exhillarating. As you no doubt know, there's a certain speed where the body realizes it would be more economical in terms of calories, etc., just to break into a run, so, for me, when I get close to 5.5 miles, it's agony keeping myself walking, not running.
At any rate, it took me almost two months to get back to that speed after my bout of pneumonia -- just to prove to myself that I wasn't a total basket case -- but since then I've slacked off. Coincidentally, around about that time is when I became obsessed with New York trees -- we have almost 200 species! -- and I started carrying around New York City Trees: A Field Guide and nerdily notating whenever I hit on a new or interesting species. ("Treespotting," I call it.) Trying to make out buds, leaf shapes, etc. slows you down when you're walking, but I've decided it's worth it. What I may lose in physical fitness, I gain in mental stimulation!

I also love long treks in the woods (or fields -- Iowa, my home state, has incredible walking/bike paths) -- but unfortunately most of my travels outside New York these days are to South Florida, home of my Significant Other, and the only sane place to walk there is on the beaches.

http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2007/4/22/141817/238/18#18

Whenever I thought of him, I thought of all those trees in New York, and Matt staring at them and knowing all the names, well, a few more each day.

Like Jerome says in the kos diary, he sounded young and energetic to me.

Matt!  Good luck on yer way!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 02:13:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Terrible news! My condolences to his family and friends. RIP, Matt.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 01:46:10 PM EST
I remember Matt as one of the 'tuning' commenters making me feel at home on this site.
He will be missed...


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:14:20 PM EST
on a lighter note, here is a lady with 130 cats at feeding time:

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=24644

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:28:55 PM EST
it looks like cats in a tornado ;-)
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
before my girlfriend has any ideas, 4 is more than enough.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:27:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia sparks Cold War scramble
Russian bombers have flown to the US island of Guam in the Pacific in a surprise manoeuvre reminiscent of the Cold War era.

Two Tu-95 turboprops flew this week to Guam, home to a big US military base, Russian Maj Gen Pavel Androsov said.


"It has always been the tradition of our long-range aviation to fly far into the ocean, to meet [US] aircraft carriers and greet [US pilots] visually," he said at a news conference.

"Yesterday [Wednesday] we revived this tradition, and two of our young crews paid a visit to the area of the base of Guam," he said.

"I think the result was good. We met our colleagues - fighter jet pilots from [US] aircraft carriers. We exchanged smiles and returned home," he added.

     
 

The cold war is final over.
We have a smile-contest now.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:41:09 PM EST
I wonder if the Russians are planning to take over the world by irritating the bejeezus out of us until we capitulate. lol.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we are not all from the USA.  they aren't irritating me.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:57:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, they are doing a pretty fine job of irritating Europe as well.  And Canada.  And who knows who is next on their list.  They are obviously intent on world domination.  Don't you read the papers?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:59:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm European AND Canadian.  They aren't irritating me.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:02:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nor I.  Sometimes I take it for granted that everyone here is familiar with my writing & know that I have a tendency to veer toward sarcasm.  I actually fall into the "Russia love fest" camp at ET.  I thoroughly enjoy their antics.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:07:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i know what most Canadians think about Russians:  they are really fine skaters and puck handlers but won't go into the corners, and won't take the hits in front of the net.  They also have a tendency not to be up for the big game.  

If the USA appreciated the fine game of ice hockey a little more, they might be seeing the situation in the same way.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:10:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
North American hockey is just fighting and individual posturing. Eastern European hockey is skating and teamwork. I know which one I enjoy watching.

I remember watching a major game in 1987 between TsSKA and Spartak (it may have been a final or something - it was in early March) and it was an absolutely stunning display of athletic performance, speed and grace, with no violence - in fact, almost no physical contact - whatsoever.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:53:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
not really.  European hockey has a lot more interference in it than the North American game.  

Also, from watching a year's worth of Swiss hockey, the game doesn't take as much of the ice in Europe as it does in North America.

The players are more skilled in the NHL, because even the European stars make more there, so the level of the game is much better in North America.

Hockey is meant to be a physical game which a lot of Europeans don't seem to understand but of course, there is a difference between a clean hit and a penalty.  The physical aspect of hockey is what makes this such a difficult game to play - without worrying about a check, most players can skate circles around each other.  But to be a truly great hockey player, one must be agile but strong, graceful and coordinated, but still be able to hold one's ground when hit, able to manoeuver, but also be able to stand in someone's way to stop them.  It's really the most fun you can have playing any sport, and I've played a lot of them.  

As for fighting, I understand why it happens, because the game is so passionate, but it's been way down ever since the Europeans have arrived :-)  No passion?

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
has indeed been way down since the Europeans arrived, and the game has become better.

Europeans went to North America because they got paid better (because there are more advertising dollars in NA than in the Czech Republic or the FSU) - and because they were easily good enough.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ummm.  the money's there, the Europeans have the skills but tend to get injured a lot - a lot of joint injuries and groin problems (which can be greatly improved through physical conditioning).   Also, the Russians seem to have motivation problems.  In fact, some coaches would rather not deal with the Russians at all because they tend to poison the morale of the entire team.    

Personally, I think the Canadians could learn a lot from the Russian training for teaching children hockey skills, but the Europeans need to learn to improve their physical conditioning in order to prevent injuries and for the Russians, perhaps improve their mood.  

 

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:42:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
with regard to the fighting, the rules have really changed, so the game has speeded up.  fighting has little to do with it.

most people will agree that the best era for hockey was when the intensity of the game was such that players from opposing teams wouldn't sit in the same room  - the era of Rocket Richard, Gordie Howe, Boom Boom Geoffrion, Jacques Plante, etc.

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some of those names are names from my childhood. You can't be that old.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:58:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I met Gordie Howe when I was very little. Have an autographed photograph of me with him, one of only two famous people I have met like that.

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!
by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
when they moved the Montreal Canadiens from the Montreal Forum to the new arena, the crowd gave the longest standing ovation for the Rocket, who had been retired for about 30 years.  Most people had never seen him play in person but everyone has seen plenty of clips of games in which he played.  

I have seen a lot of these ex-greats around.  There's  a dinner that is given every year in Montreal, called the Beaver Club Dinner and it started as a way for the English people in Montreal 200 years ago to have something to do in the winter.

It's rather exclusive but I attended with my ex several years running.  One year, the theme was winter sports.  Before the dinner started, there was a parade with all the animals representing all the NHL hockey teams - panthers,  hawks, bruins, etc.  There was a skating rink made of plexiglass or something where figure skaters were performing while we ate supper.  The Duchesnay's (the French/Canadian figure skaters) were sitting right beside me.  And, I had the opportunity to speak with the Rocket, the Pocket Rocket, le gros Bill (Jean Béliveau), Boom Boom and many others.  

I didn't want to ask for their autographs but I have many pictures of me with them.  I really loved the Rocket as a human being.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm agree with Jerome on hockey. From the U.S. you grow up with the NHL and the constant fighting and play interruptions. I had the opportunity to go to the Winter Olympics in Alberville France and went to a number of hockey games. The rinks were larger and the play was more open and exciting. Some people were hurt on checks but there was not one fight. The speed and finesse of play was exciting and was not something you saw in the NHL. While there are many European players now in the NHL I still think the style of game allows for too many fights and has hurt the sport in most cities. The NHL has also done a terrible job in promoting the players.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You see, I don't like the international game.  I find it slow and kind of boring.

The NHL rinks probably have to be a little bigger because players have grown a lot since the game started, but the physical aspect to me is the part of the game that distinguishes  a good player from a great player because the mix of athletic skills required is so difficult to find - graceful and tough?  

 Without physical contact, we just call it figure skating.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Figure Skating"  I don't mean THAT civil :):).
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
really.  it's no physical feat to skate around with a puck if nobody's going to try to physically stop you.  you can do figure eights around people.  I know because most women's hockey has no physical contact at all, including women's hockey at the Olympics.  

try doing the same thing while being knocked off balance and you'll understand why I say that that's the interesting part of the game, that really makes the excellent skaters stand out.  there really is no comparison between the two.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:50:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you remember the France/US warmup game prior to that, I believe it was in Quimper, somewhere out west anyway. It was on tv in France, I watched it, Philippe Bozon was on that team, last Frenchman in the NHL before Cristobal Huet the star netminder of the Habs today.

Benchclearing brawl. One for the ages. And France came up quite well in it.

Quite memorable.

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:40:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wish I saw that one. No I only saw the games during the Olympics. They might have different rules for Olympics that bans fighting altogether.
 
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
never saw that one.

I remember once going to a Flyers-Habs game at the Forum, and my ex wanted to be there early.  By the time we got there, which was during the pre-game warmup, the fight was already over.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You mention Gordie Howe. We met at a week long tournment  and boondogle in the Caribbean in the early '90s. He was a very nice and humble person, but his hands were enormous. It was a week long basketball tournament and he ended up on my team. I found out he had never played basketball in his life and I made it a mission in our second game to make sure he hit a basket, which he did. So to this day I can tell people I gave Gordie Howe his first assist!
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that's a very nice story.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:31:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
when the Rocket died, Gordie Howe came to his funeral in Montreal.  They were big rivals.

Gordie Howe sat with Jean Béliveau.  The Montreal Gazette story said it was the only time in his life that Howe had his elbows done while surrounded by Montreal players ;-)

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sorry, elbows down
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:58:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don Cherry covers it pretty well here



Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks for the hockey talk redstar. It was really quite fun.

 I haven't realized how much I missed hockey and hockey culture.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 07:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don Cherry might be my favorite Canadian. Hockey has been pretty low on my sports radar, even growing up in MN, but live hockey is some of the most exciting sports action there is. I went to a few U of MN hockey games while I was a student there...that was crazy fun.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 09:59:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As for fighting, I understand why it happens, because the game is so passionate, but it's been way down ever since the Europeans have arrived :-)  No passion?

i recc'd your comment for the positive attitude and good description of how you see this game you love so, but i was struck most by this phrase, and believe it encapsulates the psychological ocean between very core narratives twixt europe and the usa.

anger and passion are not the same thing, unless you believe they are.

violence is not graceful, it's adrenalin psychosis.

brute force is boring, and when wedded to courage becomes a bulldozer that reveals nothing humanly fine, as it crushes the weaker.

i lived in the usa, and i saw it all the time, in the first gulf war, the aggressive bliss shared through the collective idea that kicking ass was a soul-purifying experience, rah rah...

passion in the grip of anger is a sad waste of good energy, unless it has a compassionate outcome, the exception rather than the rule.

david is a better model than goliath, and a perfect metaphor for this onstitutionalisation of simple thuggery, atavistic territorialism for a powerspot on the game field, rink, whatever.

it's also revelatory how fascism has always glorified sports...

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 03:54:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you've got me wrong.  I don't believe in violence at all, in any circumstances.  The smiley face I put into my comment was supposed to be a wink.  

Body checking is not violence.  If one doesn't want to be subjected to it,  one shouldn't play hockey.  Grabbing, elbowing, tripping, charging (where one jumps to hit another player), spearing, cross checking, etc. are all considered dirty hits and if injury is intended, severely punished.

By the way, Don Cherry is always saying that Europeans play a nastier game of hockey than do Canadians because they are more prone to using these illegal means to stop someone rather than using a good clean check.

And I have rarely seen hooligans at a hockey game.  Entire cities don't have to be mobilized to protect themselves from hockey fans.  

So please, no facile categorizations.  Last I heard, Canadians had never started a war, and were the peacekeeping nation for the UN, and even invented the idea, for which our Prime Minister won the Nobel Peace Prize.  

by zoe on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 05:51:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And aside from a few who grew up on the border, the US doesn't exactly produce the best crop of players.

Yet, who starts all the wars and has the mass psychosis of getting all riled up behind those wars? And Americans generally don't even watch hockey, I've got a BellExpressvu satellite dish so that I can.

Personally I think it's a mental maturity thing. It's one thing to keep the edge on your game, quite another to spill over into fighting, which I understand the role for, but which you see far less often the higher level of play. Fights are endemic in juniors - want to see a game certain to have a few fights, watch Drummondville Voltigeurs v Drakkar de Baie-Comeau, the smaller the town the more there will be. Get to the elite level, with older players, there are far less, though given the chippy play of some of those who don't check well (and I'm not necessarily pointing to a particular world geographic region) and the need to protect stars, there's always going to be some of that.

This being said, as a player hitting was my favorite part of the game, and my son finds the same to be true (we are both defencemen). I had a decent hipcheck before I broke it, Duncan at his age (he's 11) is really good at standing people up on open ice, it's his favorite part of the game (and I had nothing to do with this as my wife is the one who carts him to games and practise most of the time). It's a team sport; not everyone is a finessy goal-scorer despite what a lot of the European players think, and a major part of the game is defence.

And as long as this is the case, the game will be physical. I really can't wait for summer to be over...

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 07:52:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If Europeans want to see a violent game, they should watch a game of lacrosse!  Now, that's violence.  

It was invented and is still played a lot by the First Nations people, or as Europeans like to call them, Indians.  Many of the teams  and a lot of the professional players are from the First Nations.  Does that make them fascists?

by zoe on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 08:38:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
way to twist what i was saying!

water is wet, does that make a raindrop equal an ocean?

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Aug 11th, 2007 at 10:26:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't twist a word of what you were saying but perhaps you didn't express yourself correctly.

Sumo wrestling is violent but it is considered to be graceful nonetheless.

So is a nice hip check in hockey.  

And Canada is a peace-loving country.

by zoe on Sat Aug 11th, 2007 at 10:48:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
points taken, i should have known better than to comment in the middle of sports-talk.

i've seen - and treated-too many adults who screwed up their knees permanently from the great gusto they put into....winning?

as if that trophy was going to compensate for the lack of physical freedom they had to live the rest of their lives with.

so i guess it's too personal for me to be truly objective, and i overstated my case, if i have one...

i guess kids are really susceptible to the pleasure of pleasing the adults around them, and i feel they are mostly far too young to make choices that are going to affect the rest of their lives.

perhaps redstar's breaking a hip is a minor inconvenience, compared to the joy he gets out of the game, so who am i to judge?

i still can't help feeling something's not quite right with this picture, but it's certainly not worth arguing about, especially on a politics/energy weblog!

it certainly bothers me to listen to intelligent adults lauding such sheer physicality in sports, not for them, but for the effect that kind of talk has on impressionable kids, wanting to emulate what seems 'cool'.

my problem, sorry for going over the top.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Aug 11th, 2007 at 10:23:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
oh I've screwed up my knees, and ankles, and fingers playing sports but I think it was my coaches didn't know how I should be conditioning myself and protecting my joints.

there is no physical contact allowed in hockey for younger people, and none at all in most non-professional leagues and women's leagues.  

by zoe on Sat Aug 11th, 2007 at 10:43:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha!

You're forgetting Dariusz Kasparaitus!

Oh wait, that's right, he's an ethnic Lithuanian who refused to give up his Soviet citizenship.

Damn communist. ;)

Good in both corners and in front of net.

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Kasparaitus was a madman.  He is the one who knocked out Eric Lindros and gave him the concussion that almost ended the big E's career.
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
he also looked like a madman, I remember, with the bulging eyes.  He also wore those old Soviet helmets.  Good times.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it was a clean hit, by the way.  a shoulder check to the chest.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:58:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I remember. Here's the youtube.

The man had a helluva hipcheck. So did Vlady Konstantinov and Slava Fetisov for that matter...

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:03:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't see too much of these guys because the English CBC would broadcast the Habs in Quebec too, so didn't get to watch too many Dead Things' games.

Now you guys can watch at least 3 different games at the same time with ESPN, RDI, TSN and CTV, depending on the days.  

Lindros skated with his head down too much.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:20:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, we don't have ESPN but there's SRC, RDS and RIS in french, and of course CBC, TSN and CTV/Rogers Sportsnet in English.

You can always subscribe to the NHL package but why bother, there's enough on regular channels.

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:34:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And Lindros was always a bit soft. Wouldn't play in Quebec, the ass.

Remember the worlds?

Oh how I love youtube.

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't wait for summer to be over actually.

Mais c'est un scandâââle!!
by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:10:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you are either a Canadian or a Russian ;-)
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:12:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
nobody else loves winter like Canadians or Russians.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
or a Minnesotan.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 07:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yeah, what an asshole.  they could have won the Cup those Nordiques.

you should post a rant of Don Cherry's about Europeans who don't know how or don't want to fight. or about how Europeans insist on wearing visors to protect their eyes.  that will scare everyone!

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:15:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's Coach's Corner from that game with the Kasparaitus/Lindros fight



Mais c'est un scandâââle!!

by redstar on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:19:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don Cherry's rants have been preserved for posterity!

By the way, I used to live less than 1 km away from the spot in the closing shot.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Have you ever seen Alan Partridge?  The look of growing discomfort on the face of the presenter on the left....as the guy on the right says, "Forty eight stitches!  They never won another game!"



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:36:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They have been irritating the Georgians and Norwegians lately. And before that, the Finns.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:28:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the Finns?  non - they just had that Festival of Finnic and Ungaric peoples.

Georgians seem to manage to be able to irritate themselves, as there doesn't seem to be any Russian involvement in that incident.  

Norwegians - that was a little fly-by.  

and the UK is not on the European continent and are always irritated, so they don't count.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:36:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Finns had their fair share of fly-by's and actual incursions IIRC, and I'd love to see how the Georgians managed to bomb themselves with Su-24's, considering they don't have any.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there was one missile.  easy enough to find I am sure.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:43:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'SU-24' comes from Georgians themselves, as far as I understand. As is becoming a habit in that part of the world, the missile was destroyed before eyes of wrong (Russian and international observers) specialists were allowed to see it and investigate an issue.

Georgian opposition (including the party headed by former foreign minister who was leased to Georgia by France...) announced they wouldn't be surprised if Saakashvili himself produced this little spectacle: if successful, he'll get UN Security council denouncing Brother Bear, and NATO will become more aware of Georgia's pressing need to become a member. And this comes after UN refused to point a finger regarding March helicopter attack in the Kodori Gorge.

Information is too unreliable to make a conclusion one way or another. But a la Le Carre plots are spinning in my head...

by Sargon on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and as for the radar record, I used to produce these for testing weapon systems so that the fact that a radar record exists doesn't prove anything
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I first misread that as 'imitating the bejeezus out of us' and thought it a good point ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 02:30:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think they're called incidents at sea. There was an average of 250 a year between the Russians and the Americans back in the eighties. Some of them could be quite stunning such as when several migs managed to "sink" the Kitty Hawk three times off Korea just days after 9-11 before the crew caught on. Pranks and fair play. Happens all the time.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's one sleek looking plane.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:41:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought you might find the aerodynamics of the propellers interesting considering your interest in wind turbines.
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember you wrote a comment, on a cold Sunday, about making yourself a yummy brunch that sounded so good, I could almost taste it.

Wherever you are, Matt, thank you! and please send your positive energy to this earthly, progressive project.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:45:34 PM EST


Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Matt, our path crossed on a few sites and I always enjoyed your comments. I hope were you are now there is peace and happiness for you and if there is some left, we could use some of that down here. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 03:54:34 PM EST
That's... harsh. Condolences to Matt's family.

And it's good that he'll be leaving a legacy of hundreds of thousands of people who read him, and will remember him.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:00:58 PM EST
Very sad news. Matt was definitely a better educated and smarter guy than myself.

And now for some materialistic soma to cheer me up...

My new backpack for the trip I'm planning to take starting late next year arrives today. I bought it early because I'm going to take it with me to Hawaii this September so that I can avoid bringing regular luggage with me.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:06:21 PM EST
sounds like fun.
by zoe on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So Long Matt thanks for all the fine comments and humanitarian thinking.  We need more like Matt, not less.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson
by NearlyNormal on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:19:41 PM EST
I'm deeply saddened. It's uncanny how our mortality hits so strongly over the net, a person that I liked and respected so much- and looked forward to reading- yet I had never met him nor heard his real voice. But the voice that came through his writing is strong and present.

I'll miss you, Matt.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:31:16 PM EST
by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 04:53:08 PM EST
Look in Switzerland?

Sooo cute.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 05:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At Galleries Lafayette.


Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:17:51 PM EST
I feel like I've been punched in the stomach.  This is terrible news.  I'm devastated -- and at a loss for how to explain how I can feel so devastated by the death of someone I've never actually met, but it does feel like I've lost a friend.  Matt, you will be mourned and missed here, intensely.

Deepest condolences to Matt's family, and to his friends both in the real world and the virtual one.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:18:14 PM EST
Very touching. It reminds you that these blogs are communities and like the community you live in you share many things with people including the fact that this is real life.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:41:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
2nd time in a week. 2nd site in a week. 2nd good person who I'd only known online in a week who I won't get to speak to again.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 06:36:46 PM EST
Sorry to hear about Matt in NYC. Good thoughts to his friends and family.
by lychee on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 07:29:45 PM EST
Hat tip to rememberinggiap at moon of alabama for this one:



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2007 at 08:31:55 PM EST
I'm very sad to hear that. He was one of the good guys.

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying
by RogueTrooper on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 03:49:07 AM EST
As you know I've been on a 3-week internet near-blackout, and a self-enforced ET detox. Nevertheless, I heard about Matt's passing from Colman the next Saturday, as he was live-blogging my wedding reception. I promised myself I'd come to this thread as soon as I got home.

Farewell, Matt. You were one to push me out of my comfort zone with your very sharp, very humane comments, and I will miss you even if we never met.

As I told Colman at the dinner table, I seemed to recall that Matt had intimated that he had Cancer. Indeed:

Matt in NYC: But let me tell you how things look like over here, on the Boulevard du Crime. I'm about to have a biopsy for a particularly virulent form of cancer -- and, as one of the 47 million Americans with no health insurance and no conceivable way of getting it -- it's hard for me to "take it easy" as I scramble to put together tax records, forms, etc., all in a no doubt selfish and "consumerist" attempt to save my life.

Migeru: Um... Is there any way we can help?

Matt in NYC: Yes! Stop electing Republicans and make it clear that the transatlantic Alliance is on hold until the U.S. cleans up its act.

(And thanks for asking -- I'm honestly feeling better already.)

This was on June 5, two months and a bit before his passing. Virulent is right. This may have been the last exchange I had with Matt.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 07:15:53 PM EST


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